Why BM is Weak

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

That is "bladehurl", it only last 6 seconds and has a 60 second cooldown. It can also activate purify by being cast. From experience, bladehurl is used many times to save your hide as a bm and sometimes others as well. But not really be used as an offensive strategy alone.

Its not a reliable thing to counter purify with at all. One of the many reasons purify should just be done away with.

It really has made the class weak at endgame. Where as before it wasn't so bad.

The bm class is really in need of some love from the devs...

In the situation where it now takes as many people to take down a caster as it does a catabarb (some of our r9t3+12 casters I'll use Bladehurl. It does deactivate Purify although it can proc when it hits. However,me using Bladehurl to allow 5-10 people to stun and go all out is worth it. Especially if I see an aps sin on the target since they can still cut through casters pretty quickly if they can nail them down for a few seconds.

As a 1v1 strategy its something I try occasionally but more defensively. Since it disables our weapon also it doesn't really set us up for two much. Buys us cd time, maybe saves us from a killing blow, but not usually an offensive 1v1 tactic.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1. come on people, break this OMG I'M A DD CLASS mentality. You're not. You're a support and CCer with a big chunk of DPS that happens to be there.

2. Going back to 2009 axe-only build will only make you look stupid. Ran a warsong with one of those pure axe BMs. Sin was crying for HF and he could only deliver two before Cannon died. He got aggro when sin died on vile earth boss and went down in a few hits because LOL NO SPARK NO BP HEAL. It was just a sad sight to watch him slowly hit the boss wit axes and doing zilch damage, zilch support, zilch in general

Stupid? We're talking 140 points wasted just to equip other weapons. People restat other classes just to squeeze a few more stat points. -This is why BMs are weak.

Axes barely if at all slow down a BMs ability to use HF when it's cool down is up. The BM probably got tired of listening to the Sin wining, saw that the Sin shouldn't be tanking, was inept, or some other reason.

You don't need as much BP heal when you have 140 more points in Str, better armor, and better ornaments.

You may see zilch dmg from axes because of all that dex you need for claw/fist. Claw / fist from my experience does zilch dmg compared to daggers.

SpearSpark - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tbh, if you go pure axe build, 75% of your hits gonna miss on archer/sins lol, i always hope that bm's bell would give 30 to 50% accuracy some day (just to self, not squad) i would get rid of some dex i currently have 260 dex with gear just not to miss too much. as for sage/demon sprint, i was hoping for maybe like gain chi while being attacked or chance of gaining chi back after being used.

为武侠的荣誉而战

Acc is affected by many other factors like pdef debuffs, and +acc ornament / weapon adds, or even amber imbues. Pure axe bms aren't going to equip the same as aps bms.

*****

PVE info: I restated to use Pole/Axe and love the results. I do, like someone mentioned; miss the ability to use some skills. I maybe weaker for Snake Fist, but most toons should be able to tank that by now; ( It's funny to me; to see someone looking for a tank for it in wc). A pure Axe BM on the other hand would be better for tanking BH SoT, and Aba which are harder to find tanks for.

honestly i loive BMs to death, and everytime i get upset how we are so disadvantaged in mass pvp and start a new toon, i always go back to my bm. The fact is i can take anyone 1vs1 with bm, but mass pvp which i love, my bm gets gangked after i kill 1 opponent.


PWi needs to rethink the class whether up the BM's dmg so we kill faster and can get the hell out of a potiential gangked situation or bless bms with a magic buff skill that takes magic attacks recieved and converts it into physical dmg recieved

whatever they do something has to be done. i have started to play my lvl 100 archer in NW and i love targeting Bms becuz they are so easy to kill....... which is SAD

I've seen 2 sins tank it just fine by now. What kind of sins do you run with, G13+5 full vit?

I think you have the vit syndrome: OMG I HAZ DEFENSE I MUST BE TAKE

*2 seconds later*

lol nope you're just an incompetent DD looking at the sin tanking

walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've seen 2 sins tank it just fine by now. What kind of sins do you run with, G13+5 full vit?

I think you have the vit syndrome: OMG I HAZ DEFENSE I MUST BE TAKE

*2 seconds later*

lol nope you're just an incompetent DD looking at the sin tanking

First you say the sin had to tank because the bm had no fists.

Then you say sins can tank just fine in reply to something that remark has no relevance to.

You also complain the bm didn't hf when the sin sparked in the same post where you complain that the bm wasn't tanking, despite the fact that hf slows the BMs relative dps while increasing that of those around them (making the bm less able to tank)

And regardless of all of this, assuming equal gears, a pure dd fist BM still can not generate enough aggro to take it away from a sin.


Honestly you're just a f-cking idiot.
I wonder what class you are behind that lvl 15 avatar you're hiding behind. Clearly not a melee class.

my bm with +10 g16 claw cant even take aggro from my sin with +7 dagger lol

cheddydank wrote: »

wow just fought in nw /Again/ and every class made me look liike cannon fodder again, barbs run passed me with flag whilei try to channel roar of the pride, it fails... getting hit by 8-18 k hits/ crits with 11k mag def... wtf man how much more defence do i need to fight well on bm? made my seeker last wekk, has way more surviveability than my bm ive had for 5 years, this is getting me more annoyed every week, bm is so weak compared... in NW if a class has been brambled, at ALL i might aswell run away or let them kill me. all archers do is stun and run... like how can a bm GET in yo face and do ANYthing if ur dead before u can reach them... bm hf takes 2 sparks, anti stun 1 spark, aoe stun 50 chi, 1 spark stun too oh and 1 sprk heal... now i think BM needs a chi button like sin cuz we cant use all those skills when we spawn with 1 and a half sparks in nw.... in fact NW is on Right now and im here QQ ing again, FIX the DAMN games PVP bm cant do ****. unless u go all out with full sparks and have 10$ worth of gear.... my seeker has F all gear and is much better... wtf!?!?! as in (r9rr bm) and (nirvy g15 seeker) the seeker is noticeably stronger LMAO

do the math, i challenge any1 to tell me how and why a class is weak against BM

Seriously i wanna know what your gears look like..

HeavenxDoom - Lost City wrote: »

OMg yes more mid pole range skill be nice

imma pure pole sage bm by the way

i like the feeling with mid range skill and leaps b:victory

dont need other weapon dont see other weapons b:laugh

New female BM only pole skills.

"dance"

and

"insert"

tweakz wrote: »

I also have a lot more tank-ability now.

Unless you went full Vit your tankability was the same as it was when you were APS built, unless you didn't know how to swap gears for pulls

Clearing instances is so much faster

Assuming avg. 200 Dex with armor on, going down to 60 = a gain of 140 STR. (140/150)*(((1070+2379)/2)+669) = 2210.6 avg. DHP loss with +10 G16 axes, at the loss of 7% crit and a large chunk of accuracy that has to be made up by Amber shards, which don't add to damage. Placebo effect much? Unless you were punching your way through pulls. Again, only an improvement if you didn't know how to change weapons

and on bosses; I'm still using the GS/HF combo to start.

No change

Some people missed the first year of this game when people had to control their dd for the tanks.

I came to the game after those years, I still know how to control my aggro where I don't have a reliable (i.e. APS) tank. I can't fathom how fun of a game it would be to play a game where you pull aggro off a tank the moment a DD so much as breathes on the boss. Nostalgia glasses much?

Sin tanking and dies? - let them lose the kill imo. BM is not going to hold aggro over a the average stupid sin w/ or w/o claws.

But against a sin of lower refines/weapon--most average sins still run with G13 because it's cheap interval--you can hold aggro. Now you actually have zero aggro generating ability. Barbs get ream and stomp of the king, you get what, Stream Strike?

Replies in red

tweakz wrote: »

I'm not regretting ditching the claws and restating. I'd rather be a master of a weapon than a jack off all. I also have a lot more tank-ability now. Clearing instances is so much faster and on bosses; I'm still using the GS/HF combo to start.

Some people missed the first year of this game when people had to control their dd for the tanks. Sin tanking and dies? - let them lose the kill imo. BM is not going to hold aggro over a the average stupid sin w/ or w/o claws.

You've apparently missed the other threads on bm stat distrubtion and chosen to bury your arguments in this thread, which are slightly off topic. The other thread discussions on restatting dex to pure axe are kind of.. meh. For PvP its up in the air but for PvE why would you? There are also the BM threads on should we raise our dex to 300 for pvp because now even many casters have 80+ dex from latent gear and the sins and archers have 700+. Good luck hitting anything.

For PvE there is no reason to not be claws. You cannot HF spam with just axes as even in full aps gear you only generate 165 chi every 30 seconds (28.5 seconds x 1.18 x 5 chi per attack) and less than that since you wont be in aps gear and will probably be using skills. Keeping up with chi in instances will be extremely rough also so lets hope you have enough for even your initial HF.

I know you're going to bring up accuracy glitching on mobs. Fine, but we don't have easy pdef debuffs like a barb who usues 35 chi for a 50% debuff, ours costs 2 sparks. We can mire, but now you're occupying your genie just so you can aoe, lol. You think that's superior?

As for more survivability and more damage. Obviously you'll be about 1/6th the dps as a claw bm, but for aoeing you'll be higher. Except when you miss. And except you'll be using ambers. So that 5-10% gain is more like 3% more dph, lol. 4 weapon paths or 1 with 3% more dph.

For more def, sure, you have more pdef (assume if you're talking more damage you've restat it all to strength). You have zero more mdef, but your pdef will be slightly higher. Granted you're evasion will be alot lower. Not an issue until you realize how many status effects you were lucky enough to dodge. Barb's armaing me and the occasional bm/sin/archer stun miss or bleeds is great.

Soloability is also pretty much out of the question, hope you have a farming alt. Most people also wont take a bm who contributes almost zero dph (seriously, less than a caster) to the squad. The can always get a bm with demon HF and 200k dps instead.

You apparently haven't looked at sin and bm stats lately. They nerfed sin dagger refines and base damage to be almost the same as fists. So while a sin might have 700 dex endgame and 40ish% crit and I'm stuck around 500 strength and 33% crit, at least our weapons are similar.
Traceless Dimensions-base damage average=924, refine at +10=+490
Netherworld Guidance-base damage average=942.5, refine at +10=+490

Yah, they still win but not nearly by as much as they did a year ago. We're talking an extra damage add on your G16s, or better shards, or a refine difference, or the sin taking 2 seconds at the start to Rib Strike, or better rings for + phys attack, or using Bane before your spark. Any of these can about give you the dd difference to tank over a sin. All you need is slightly better gear than the sin and you're tanking. I mean, we're comparing 200k dps to 230k dps, not a huge difference but Q.Q if you want about it and reroll to a 35k dps build, lol.

Simply put, still don't see any sort of worthwhile argument to be pure axe.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

You've apparently missed the other threads on bm stat distrubtion and chosen to bury your arguments in this thread, which are slightly off topic. The other thread discussions on restatting dex to pure axe are kind of.. meh. For PvP its up in the air but for PvE why would you? There are also the BM threads on should we raise our dex to 300 for pvp because now even many casters have 80+ dex from latent gear and the sins and archers have 700+. Good luck hitting anything.

Because casters have 80+ dex? -Are you serious?

For PvE there is no reason to not be claws. You cannot HF spam with just axes as even in full aps gear you only generate 165 chi every 30 seconds (28.5 seconds x 1.18 x 5 chi per attack) and less than that since you wont be in aps gear and will probably be using skills. Keeping up with chi in instances will be extremely rough also so lets hope you have enough for even your initial HF.

I'm not the only one in this thread stating that you can spam HF with axes and that's w/o mention of genie skills or apoth.

I know you're going to bring up accuracy glitching on mobs. Fine, but we don't have easy pdef debuffs like a barb who usues 35 chi for a 50% debuff, ours costs 2 sparks. We can mire, but now you're occupying your genie just so you can aoe, lol. You think that's superior?

I was using GS long before ditching claws. Accuracy so called glitch works for everyone in the squad.

As for more survivability and more damage. Obviously you'll be about 1/6th the dps as a claw bm, but for aoeing you'll be higher.

During BH aba today, after GS, and HF; I had just a few hits on the boss myself. IOW's over half the damage I did was from skills that came from str.

Except when you miss. And except you'll be using ambers. So that 5-10% gain is more like 3% more dph, lol. 4 weapon paths or 1 with 3% more dph.

Ignoring dmg from more str much?

For more def, sure, you have more pdef (assume if you're talking more damage you've restat it all to strength). You have zero more mdef, but your pdef will be slightly higher. Granted you're evasion will be alot lower. Not an issue until you realize how many status effects you were lucky enough to dodge. Barb's armaing me and the occasional bm/sin/archer stun miss or bleeds is great.

In order to be aps; you need to stick to L99, stage 2, etc. -That's where you lose significant def.

Soloability is also pretty much out of the question, hope you have a farming alt. Most people also wont take a bm who contributes almost zero dph (seriously, less than a caster) to the squad. The can always get a bm with demon HF and 200k dps instead.

If I didn't have a farming alt; I certainly wouldn't want a claw bm. As already stated; clearing mobs is faster w/o a claw build.

tweakz wrote: »

Because casters have 80+ dex? -Are you serious?

Tome+Cape+adds

I'm not the only one in this thread stating that you can spam HF with axes and that's w/o mention of genie skills or apoth.

Not unless your sage and uh...sage HF sucks


I was using GS long before ditching claws. Accuracy so called glitch works for everyone in the squad.

Mang those axe bm's always have 2 sparks for GS mang

During BH aba today, after GS, and HF; I had just a few hits on the boss myself. IOW's over half the damage I did was from skills that came from str.

adding 140 str to a 550-600 str build does jack all after mastery.


Ignoring dmg from more str much?

Garnets give similar damage, unless you just love to miss

In order to be aps; you need to stick to L99, stage 2, etc. -That's where you lose significant def.

A, wrong B dead wrong, C even if your aps set IS tt99 gear swappign works derpderpderp


If I didn't have a farming alt; I certainly wouldn't want a claw bm. As already stated; clearing mobs is faster w/o a claw build.

Um, what?

trying to hard with the attempted troll, or your flat out derpy

lol if someone wish to go one path let them dont go hating its not you behind the toon is it.

for pve anything over hh99 is easy mode


as for pvp claw sucks as u dont use claw much when facing r9rr


enough said

guild2010 wrote: »

lol to all who say bm is a good class for pvp. Bm for pve not pvp! if u chose bm as pvp class u will fail . I play many classes and bm is my best class since the start of the game but now everything changed. it's not bm hard to play but it hard to win in pvp, that is truth bm was the good class for pvp but now pwi change caster instead bm class.
magic and phy buff for bm is useless since the atk lvl gem and def lvl gem come out. for group pvp, phy or magic buff make bm like fresh meat for other classes coz the mix of magic and phy class in pvp group.
the problem from the update make all classes huge damage deal but on def is just alittle bit that make bm survival low ( huge def on def lvl gem) the bm become crapy since they can't survive on few shots from other classes

NECROOO!!!!!!!

guild2010 replied to a message that was 3 months 6 hours 22 minutes old.