Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A reliable counter to purify is to simply be an archer or seeker or equal geared to the caster who has purify. Once at absolute endgame a bm would even work or sin. Aps types stay home. Archers and seekers easily kill a wizard one on one with equal gear.

Zan, your problem is you are probably fighting +10-12 and josd arcanes who already have their ring and tome and you do not have equal gear.

No sir. Do not assume, just because I've only got +6 gear, that I'm talking about myself going up against fully refined people. Fully buffed, even against other super end game people, a super end game Arcane will be able to tank things out well enough to escape unless they've got enough people on them. Seen it happen plenty of times. Perhaps the people weren't organized, perhaps they were horrible at the game, but the point remains that with a genie in tact (which it's likely to be) an Arcane with Purify Spell will be able to manage to get away in a significant amount of cases.

I'm fairly certain we don't have anyone on Loth that's full +12 Jaded with NW recasted items. We have quite a few people with those things, but none of them all on one person, not yet.

Knight, you've still offered nothing of value to this discussion. Just go home bro, you're drunk. The other procs are luck based as well, but GoF and SB will not ever save you while you're locked down.

Decus - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Archers...easily kill a wizard one on one with equal gear.

I want to know what archers "easily" kill wizards in endgame gear. The archer gets obliterated.

VKnightV - Lost City · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No sir. Do not assume, just because I've only got +6 gear, that I'm talking about myself going up against fully refined people. Fully buffed, even against other super end game people, a super end game Arcane will be able to tank things out well enough to escape unless they've got enough people on them. Seen it happen plenty of times. Perhaps the people weren't organized, perhaps they were horrible at the game, but the point remains that with a genie in tact (which it's likely to be) an Arcane with Purify Spell will be able to manage to get away in a significant amount of cases.

I'm fairly certain we don't have anyone on Loth that's full +12 Jaded with NW recasted items. We have quite a few people with those things, but none of them all on one person, not yet.

Knight, you've still offered nothing of value to this discussion. Just go home bro, you're drunk. The other procs are luck based as well, but GoF and SB will not ever save you while you're locked down.

and you dont know what ur talking about.
ur low experience with end game gear say it all.
if a singel assasin end game geared with josd can take on a arcane solo then 20 ppl can easely pawn them.

geared ppl not low geared ppl.

when your yp gear you may speak

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »

and you dont know what ur talking about.
ur low experience with end game gear say it all.
if a singel assasin end game geared with josd can take on a arcane solo then 20 ppl can easely pawn them.

geared ppl not low geared ppl.

when your yp gear you may speak

My not having gear to compete at super end game can change, your stupidity can't. You have this idea that Sins are still the most OP thing out there, but they pale in comparison to some of the things we have around these days. Yes, Tidal and Deaden still suck, but they're not nearly as strong today as they were in the past by comparison. The balance has shifted, or lack of balance as it were.

BungaSakura - Raging Tide · April 2013

I only have full t3 nirvana armor +7, cube neck and warsong belt +10, rank 9 recast weapon +10. That weapon still not save me against recast rank 9 sin/BM/barb

i can kill them when im lucky enough to use bramble hood and blazing barrier at same time b:surrender

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver · April 2013

well on dreamweaver we have plenty of people who are +12,r93, have +10-12 r93 ring, and have max tome, and have end game gems.

Just last night in nw we had a barb with 12 people on him me included(I'm full r93 +11 weapon +10 armor with frosborne gems) and he could have simply ran away had he wanted to. Had the other 11 turned on me- I would have died. Yes puri would have kept me from stun, but 17k life only lasts so long.

Maybe once I get that ring, or maybe once I get josd Ill suddenly become invincible, but right now, If an r93 archer or seeker is hitting me- I'll be dead by the time I count to 5.

VKnightV - Lost City · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My not having gear to compete at super end game can change, your stupidity can't. You have this idea that Sins are still the most OP thing out there, but they pale in comparison to some of the things we have around these days. Yes, Tidal and Deaden still suck, but they're not nearly as strong today as they were in the past by comparison. The balance has shifted, or lack of balance as it were.

so take away UR op skill you dont liek and leave the other op skill in game hum kid grow up.

bouth are op non of them is FAIR......

ur mummy must have dropped you when you was a baby i pity her.

sin skill are unbalanced just as purify but sin still have them sage tidal cough stealth and free chi gain with a few skills

dex is broken to

again if you want ur silly purify to be balanced we shoudl focus on all of them to

VKnightV - Lost City · April 2013

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well on dreamweaver we have plenty of people who are +12,r93, have +10-12 r93 ring, and have max tome, and have end game gems.

Just last night in nw we had a barb with 12 people on him me included(I'm full r93 +11 weapon +10 armor with frosborne gems) and he could have simply ran away had he wanted to. Had the other 11 turned on me- I would have died. Yes puri would have kept me from stun, but 17k life only lasts so long.

Maybe once I get that ring, or maybe once I get josd Ill suddenly become invincible, but right now, If an r93 archer or seeker is hitting me- I'll be dead by the time I count to 5.

exactly gear make purify usefull... sht gear wont do a thing for purify

Azura - Lost City · April 2013

I don't know why this thread is alive still. Nothing you say here will reach the Chinese devs, and even if it does they would completely dismiss all this argument because first, they are not going to do as a bunch of whinny players tell them to do, they manage this game as they please. And second, they know purify isn't more op than the other r9-3 special effects.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · April 2013

Of course they could do the same for mellee classes with a proc that fully heals you when being hit. Similar effect, r9.3 vs r9.3 can still beat it, no matter how many low geared will only help you survive.

Make it and let barbs be king of the flag once again

Eoria - Harshlands · April 2013

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Make it and let barbs be king of the flag once again

You are one of the kings of flag carrying though. Or are you just dumb and don't run with a cleric?

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary · April 2013

Agreed. If it's two equal squads I'd rather have a barb carry it any day. A barb can survive longer as the rest of us take out threats. A caster is primarily a viable carrier in the event that there are a lot of crappy people with maybe 1 or 2 good ones fighting a handful of extremely OP people.

A barb with support gets more time to get healed, runs faster, has invoke, etc.

A wizard/psy/cleric/veno/mystic may get an advantage from purify spell when fighting g13/15 people but if you have an r9r3 squad versus an r9r3 squad that's still gonna be a very large challenge.

Adalgiso - Harshlands · April 2013

I think purify weapon should remain as it is. Yeh its OP, but hell archers constant purges isn't OP? Sin's hitting 5 times a second is not OP? Zerk + crit combo not OP? Psy's buffs not OP? Don't even get me started on seekers lol

Only class I think that needs bit adjustment is bm's. I do not really play my BM but I can't shake feeling that they got terribly screwed over by everything PWI has released lately. I can't think of any OP BM skill that gives them advantage on battlefield, compared to other classes.

As playing both barb and wizard, and wizard being 3rd cast, I only want to say its little disappointing the role change in game that happened. For example, its easier for me to pull any instance on wizard now, rather than on 40k HP barb. Granted barb isn't 3rd cast, but I doubt it would make much difference if you think of purify.

Take WS and earth / wood / water pavilion as prime example. Wizard does whole pavs, barely a charm tick. Barb does only as much as vacuity can take him, with significant charm ticks before invoke.

Btw, if you loose 20vs1 nation war due to "purify," I think you just have to face it that whoever was carrying flag out geared the 20 of you together. Any wizard 3rd cast can take down any other wizard 3rd cast 1vs1, and I can't imagine what I would do to flag carrier if I had 20 people constantly around me amping purging etc on flag carrier. I don't even understand how that person managed to dig flag 2 times in a row while being alone and you had 20 people to cover 3 positions. So no, I'm sorry, but this wasn't due to purify.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Purify should stay as it is.
The problem is not the Purify itself, it's actually the fact that all the PvP had to shift around this "spell".
If a caster is constantly proc'd that means someone is doing exactly what it's not suppose to do, but there are always solutions. Sure, it's not pew-pew anymore on casters, it's a bit more difficult since they hit hard and can't be controlled as much anymore. Before the dreaded anni packs came out killing a caster was not easy. Stun locks took some skill to pull off, controlling the space and distace and when the fight happens was an art. Now everyone wants to just mindlessly exchange punches and win.
NW and TW are team games. Azura had a very good post on the first page with some very good points. Working as a team can go a long way ... there's no OP char when you know what to do and work as a team. Targeting the same char and everyone smashing keys to kill is not teamwork, use the ability of the classes in the squad properly and any R9x3 will drop before his charm will tick.
The problem I see right now is that everyone has a Rambo mentality as soon as the the full R9x3 is complete or as low as G16 is complete. Teamwork transforms in some kind of Rambo clones spread all over the place hitting left and right and qq-ing that they cant kill someone who has actually one good proc to get out of trouble. Learn skills cooldown and chi cost and you'll see how much easier everything gets. Practice on guild mates until you "feel" the timings. (side note: 2.5 years after I stopped playing my wiz I start leveling a barb. Took me a few days to remember all the skills timings and costs and now I play barb better than I do my sin or my BM. Why? because as TW wiz my job was to drop cata barbs and I was pretty fking good at doing it. But for that I had to know barbs skills cooldowns and chi costs inside out).
1v1 there will always be OP chars.
1vX if the "X" does not win, it's not OP, it's lack of thinking, coordination and team work. And if the solo one wins, gz!

____BM____ - Sanctuary · April 2013

Adalgiso - Harshlands wrote: »

Only class I think that needs bit adjustment is bm's. I do not really play my BM but I can't shake feeling that they got terribly screwed over by everything PWI has released lately. I can't think of any OP BM skill that gives them advantage on battlefield, compared to other classes.

This. Oh So much of this. At the moment im considering completely abandoning my bm getting r999 gear because they get the least out of it. If i see a r999 bm in Nw/Tw it's just meh. b:surrender

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »

This. Oh So much of this. At the moment im considering completely abandoning my bm getting r999 gear because they get the least out of it. If i see a r999 bm in Nw/Tw it's just meh. b:surrender

Look at what PWE does to the "underpowered" classes. They gave Seekers higher damage on skills and metal zerks. They gave Wizards all sorts of fancy skills and arcanes Purify Spell. The way they "balance" things is taking something underpowered and making it a powerhouse. Expect for BMs to be the most OP thing around in a few months. b:avoid

RyougiShiki - Raging Tide · April 2013

ever think purge/zerk are ridiculous? ever get purged by a random shot from archer and suddenly couples of 5k+ dmg on log? or get r9rr sin facerolled for 15k zerk crit as r9rr josd wiz? i have no problem if they remove all 3 weapon procs, lets see who will cry.

the only problem for purify spell proc is just bunch of inexperienced green weapons or aps sins keep hitting the r9rr AA flagger in nw, which can be easily avoid by good communications.

zhangwuj1 · April 2013

Barb with 40+k hp flagging during NW is stoppable while r9rr caster with 20k hp is unstoppable, that just aint right.

Purify should be nerfed, either take away the anti stun or speed boost. Enough said.

Btw, i'm a r9rr wiz so i know how OP it is.

klys · April 2013

Purify proc is fine.

Spirit blackhole needs to be nerfed.

Btw, I'm a r999 archer so i know how OP it is.

zhangwuj1 · April 2013

klys wrote: »

Purify proc is fine.

Spirit blackhole needs to be nerfed.

Btw, I'm a r999 archer so i know how OP it is.

I rofl-ed at this post.

NW wise, try doing 20v1 and capturing with r9rrs in opponent team
PVP wise, bring your archer to HT and 1v1 my wiz, or test out any top wiz/psy around, purging doesnt help cause even after getting purge you are gonne hit me for not more than 2-3k, but you are still 1-2 crit hits to me b:laugh b:bye

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

zhangwuj1 wrote: »

I rofl-ed at this post.

NW wise, try doing 20v1 and capturing with r9rrs in opponent team
PVP wise, bring your archer to HT and 1v1 my wiz, or test out any top wiz/psy around, purging doesnt help cause even after getting purge you are gonne hit me for not more than 2-3k, but you are still 1-2 crit hits to me b:laugh b:bye

Dat stoneyface.

If dis guy here is fer srs then I believe this may be a historical moment, a Wizard NOT saying Archers are OP. Oh lawdy!

BigCojones - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In my NW experience R9rr casters are usually taken down sooner or later

R9rr barbs (BigCojones on my server) took nearly 10 minutes to die 1v 20 something

Granted he could not have run the flag with all of us locking him down but even if he held the flag twice and just tanked for 20 minutes he wins by default

b:surrender

Errm quick question...
Did you see my damage? no?
Sacrificing your damage for more defense is not OP

MagicEmpress - Lost City · April 2013

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

-20v1 Adroit Style in NW

Now, now.
Myself and a Veno both of whom are merely 1st cast rank 9s almost got Adroit last Sunday in a 2-1 NW.
If we had just one more... Man that HP bar was 98% down twice! b:cry

Heartz - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dat stoneyface.

If dis guy here is fer srs then I believe this may be a historical moment, a Wizard NOT saying Archers are OP. Oh lawdy!

cos he might actually have the gear to realise that. The people saying purify isn't op is usually low refine or +10's. they think +10 is serious business and that they should own. but the fact is there is a hell of a difference between full +10 and full +12.

Kniraven - Lost City · April 2013

MagicEmpress - Lost City wrote: »

Now, now.
Myself and a Veno both of whom are merely 1st cast rank 9s almost got Adroit last Sunday in a 2-1 NW.
If we had just one more... Man that HP bar was 98% down twice! b:cry

What does that have to do with anything at all being said in this thread?

Purify proc needs a nerf (preferably a cooldown time like Asterelle suggested), because it effectively makes lesser geared DDs more of a benefit than a hindrance to the AA in question.

Any situation at all where increasing the quantity of opponents benefits you is a broken mechanic.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Heartz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

cos he might actually have the gear to realise that. The people saying purify isn't op is usually low refine or +10's. they think +10 is serious business and that they should own. but the fact is there is a hell of a difference between full +10 and full +12.

Right-O kind fellow! Was merely an observation of the majority of Wizards I've seen posting about Archers complaining about how OP they are.

BlackMorder - Raging Tide · April 2013

LOL DUDE, U mad???? Remove Zerk Crit, and purge from weaps too, if wanna remove Purify :P why u make melee when u can't stand vs casters?

Adroit - Lost City · April 2013

MagicEmpress - Lost City wrote: »

Now, now.
Myself and a Veno both of whom are merely 1st cast rank 9s almost got Adroit last Sunday in a 2-1 NW.
If we had just one more... Man that HP bar was 98% down twice! b:cry

Psh, the veno was 3rd cast.. and my hp never dropped below 5k. I didn't expect to get that low.. but the only reason I was there trading blows with you guys (rather than capping the flag.. my apoth was not on cd) was to farm some points :P Gave all of us more personal contribution.. you're welcome b:cute

Also @Kniraven
Lowbies can still help against end game casters.. they just need to do what they should be doing (CC/amps/debuffs) rather than trying to contribute negligible damage. And I don't think people of lesser gear are or should be part of the balance equation.. balance is a concept that only makes sense when everyone is at the same gear level.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Psh, the veno was 3rd cast.. and my hp never dropped below 5k. I didn't expect to get that low.. but the only reason I was there trading blows with you guys (rather than capping the flag.. my apoth was not on cd) was to farm some points :P Gave all of us more personal contribution.. you're welcome b:cute

Also @Kniraven
Lowbies can still help against end game casters.. they just need to do what they should be doing (CC/amps/debuffs) rather than trying to contribute negligible damage. And I don't think people of lesser gear are or should be part of the balance equation.. balance is a concept that only makes sense when everyone is at the same gear level.

The concept of balance still applies, assuming both a melee class and a caster class at equal gear (R9rr) are in the same situation and the caster vastly outperforms the melee, it's unbalanced. Just because the people in question aren't fighting each other doesn't mean there can't be balance issues in other areas.

Adroit - Lost City · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The concept of balance still applies, assuming both a melee class and a caster class at equal gear (R9rr) are in the same situation and the caster vastly outperforms the melee, it's unbalanced. Just because the people in question aren't fighting each other doesn't mean there can't be balance issues in other areas.

I agree with everything in this post except your assumption, melee have all the tools they need to be competitive with a caster. Purify is basically a game mechanic that encourages DPH over DPS, and helps to deal with the endless CC that some classes have.. it is balanced just fine with characters of equal gear/skill in my experience.

Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

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