Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!
Comments
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SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »Like i said, its not complicated, you are just thinking too simple.
If you cant do it alone, imobilize an wait for more people. If you cant do it with 10 people, then it is the gear defense and not the weapon, and you are crying about the wrong thing.
We used to be able to kill +10s when we were +4. We used to kill r9s when we were G15. Why? We had team work and skill. But now there is absolutely no way we're killing a r9rr caster unless we're also r9rr with same refines.Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »We used to be able to kill +10s when we were +4. We used to kill r9s when we were G15. Why? We had team work and skill. But now there is absolutely no way we're killing a r9rr caster unless we're also r9rr with same refines.
But ZSW, sins are op. b:laughb:cryb:laugh0 -
_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »But ZSW, sins are op. b:laughb:cryb:laugh
I did it on my archer too
Oh wait, archers are also op? b:laughZsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
Personally, I agree with Z's points on how Purify proc is eliminating the skillbased portion of the game (though perhaps I'm a bit more conservative on the issue). I've seen poorly geared squads completely destroy squads with better refines, gear, and resources. I've often been a part of those squads.
However, the main problem is that Purify Proc is granting bonuses where it is not... how should I say this? "Deserved."
Spirit Blackhole is deadly, yes, but it relies on the fact that an archer can survive long enough to retaliate with damage. This only happens when an archer is skillful enough to survive "alone" - perhaps by manipulating antistun and genie. Therefore, any Purge proc that happens can count as perhaps "lucky", but not "overpowered", as a result of the archer's own skill allowing for the proc.
God of Frenzy also assumes that the user of the weapon with GoF can survive long enough without attacking. This may be either through kiting, or genie. However, note that both of those escape methods do not involve the actual weapon. Therefore, when a BM escapes a gank and begins to drop AoEs, the GoFs that manifest result from his own skill in staying alive.
Purify Proc is different. It merely requires the caster to take damage, and anyone can do this. A shaved baboon poking a mouse would give you the same results as some of the players I've seen with S3. It does NOT rely on a player using skill to stay alive, and thus get a chance to use their respective proc. Instead, it's the other way around - the player depends on the proc to stay alive.
This is even more overpowered than APS ever was. APS assumed that the user was skilled enough to survive despite weaker gear, and thus get a chance to pour their DPS onto whatever target they desired.
Barring my baboon references, I think it would be interesting if Purify Proc was either modified as previously stated (Speed buff removed, possible modification of what it purifies) or so that it depended on a player's skill, and not the amount of people trying to eat them.
Unfortunately, I am not able to think of any ways at the moment to attach Purify to player skill at the moment.
Edit: I suppose this isn't directly related to my previous statement, but have any of us considered modifying Purify Proc to attach a self debuff? This is common amongst other procs. Even God of Frenzy sacrifices 5% HP.Forever overlooked.
Forever forgotten.
Forever alone.
This is a good thing. People don't notice me, and they don't notice the knife whistling towards their throat.0 -
Nw is the only place that the purify proc is actually ruining the game, remove the speed buff when you carry the flag and then there should be no problems. If you dont have enough DD to kill the AA class in that time then your gunna lose anyways.
In group pvp/tw casters die just so quickly that the puri proc doesnt have much of a chance to do much, even if it does proc then they IG.... 12 secs later they die... happens all the time and see no problem with it.
Yes as a bm it sucks *** when you are stunlocking and the blasted thing procs but the same can be said for the caster when GoF procs on barbs/bm/seekers same for purge for archer. Just because it becomes harder to kill someone now doesn't mean it's broken.0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »More enemies = greater chance of survival to anyone with purify.
This blanket statement is not true. Purify procs roughly 5% of the time. So on average you can hit them 20 times before it goes off. Effectively you must be able to deal 1.5x their max HP to kill them (excluding charm bypass). To deal 1.5x their hp in 20 hits, your hits would need to average 1/13 of their max hp to kill them. If the caster has 20,000 hp then any hit over ~1500 damage is decreasing their chance of survival (this ignores the fact that you can still hit them even after it procs).
You don't need r9s3 gear to kill them. You don't even need r9 weapons. Highly refined g15 gear or moderately refined g16 is sufficient, except maybe for a psy in white voodoo.
The fact of the matter is if you have 20 reasonably geared and reasonably skilled people standing between an arcane flag carrier and the capture point, there is no way the caster will make it through without dying even if purify procs continuously.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I must be very unlucky with my hits then, cause it triggers like a freaking plague if i attack someone with R9rr weapon b:shutupFissile - Archosaur wrote: »This blanket statement is not true. Purify procs roughly 5% of the time.0 -
really must nerf itb:surrender or at least PS should activate withing a specific amount of dmg or dmg per sec. Fair if it not activate for 100, 200,300.... kind of small damages, So attacking lvl 1-70.... will not be problem in Nw
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This BS thread again?
All points were covered in the last QQ thread.
This needs to be moved to the NW forum0 -
Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »This blanket statement is not true. Purify procs roughly 5% of the time. So on average you can hit them 20 times before it goes off. Effectively you must be able to deal 1.5x their max HP to kill them (excluding charm bypass). To deal 1.5x their hp in 20 hits, your hits would need to average 1/13 of their max hp to kill them. If the caster has 20,000 hp then any hit over ~1500 damage is decreasing their chance of survival (this ignores the fact that you can still hit them even after it procs).
You don't need r9s3 gear to kill them. You don't even need r9 weapons. Highly refined g15 gear or moderately refined g16 is sufficient, except maybe for a psy in white voodoo.
The fact of the matter is if you have 20 reasonably geared and reasonably skilled people standing between an arcane flag carrier and the capture point, there is no way the caster will make it through without dying even if purify procs continuously.
You missed something.
I have to deal 1.5x their max HP within 20 hits, within LESS THAN 10 SECONDS[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
All I see in this thread is a bunch of ****ing sins crying that they can't faceroll on their keyboard to kill everyone anymore. And well, some BMs, but honestly, BMs are probably the best equipped to deal with puri proc when you take into account all of their new Morai skills.
The only compromise I'd consider is removing the speed buff, though tbh, that's only really a problem in NW and certain PVP situations.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
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Subtraction.
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105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »All I see in this thread is a bunch of ****ing sins crying that they can't faceroll on their keyboard to kill everyone anymore. And well, some BMs, but honestly, BMs are probably the best equipped to deal with puri proc when you take into account all of their new Morai skills.
The only compromise I'd consider is removing the speed buff, though tbh, that's only really a problem in NW and certain PVP situations.
No...
Did you read anything at all that I said or are you just speaking out your rear end...
Equal gear 1 vs 1's the proc is not an issue at all.
There is a problem in the fact that it is impossible for significantly lesser geared players to beat a caster even if the fight is 30 vs 1. All the caster has to do is put a fishing weight on their W key and they will get purify and rush away over and over....
The Purify weapon makes someone more powerful when you increase their opposition. That's what is broken about it. If there isn't at least one person there with a weapon on par with the caster's armor then they can not be killed and that 1 person with the weapon would be more likely to win in a 1 vs 1 anyway[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »This blanket statement is not true. Purify procs roughly 5% of the time. So on average you can hit them 20 times before it goes off. Effectively you must be able to deal 1.5x their max HP to kill them (excluding charm bypass). To deal 1.5x their hp in 20 hits, your hits would need to average 1/13 of their max hp to kill them. If the caster has 20,000 hp then any hit over ~1500 damage is decreasing their chance of survival (this ignores the fact that you can still hit them even after it procs).
You don't need r9s3 gear to kill them. You don't even need r9 weapons. Highly refined g15 gear or moderately refined g16 is sufficient, except maybe for a psy in white voodoo.
The fact of the matter is if you have 20 reasonably geared and reasonably skilled people standing between an arcane flag carrier and the capture point, there is no way the caster will make it through without dying even if purify procs continuously.
I thought it was estimated to be more around 8%?
Irregardless, the calculation ignores the fact that you can't deal damage on something that you're not in range of. Purify proc gives max speed and anti stun. Unless you holy path or apoth, you're not gonna catch up to them quick enough to hit them. You can't lock someone down if they're anti stunned. You will rarely get 20 people hitting someone at the same time. It's more of 2-4 people hit, they run away, then 2-4 other people hit, they run away, and so on.
To generalize saying that any hit over 1500 is decreasing their survival is just as bad. Your 1500 could've prevented someone else from dealing 3000.
EDIT:
I also forgot to ask. How is a G15 supposed to deal 1500 damage to a full r9rr? Psys are the squishiest arcane self buffed, even in white.Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »Umm purify works just fine. If they nerfed or changed it after spending all my farmed/cash shoped coin to get it- I and many more would simply quit. Pretty soon you'll be playing pwi all alone.
If you are having trouble killing r93 arcanes then perhaps you should task a couple r93 archers to kill them. r93 archers eat them up very fast even with 19-20k life.
This is an asinine statement that proves to me that, for a caster, you probably don't have very good gear. As an archer, I've never managed to "eat" any caster that has that kind of gear level.Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
I just can see a "Casters vs meele" topic here, 90% of the casters say "keep the purify" and 80% of the meele say "remove it" so whats the point?
We all know that pw ppl doesnt know how to be objetive, they just want to be Op even if that means to make the game disbalanced.
Yes. The purify proc its wrong, just as 5 aps's are wrong
What should pwi staff do? they should cap the aps to 3.33 (anyway r999 +12 3.33 sins whould be OP) but its somthing.
They should remove the speed increase proc in the r999 caster weaps (just the speed)
But, what are they going to do?
Nothing, as always.0 -
Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »And well, some BMs, but honestly, BMs are probably the best equipped to deal with puri proc when you take into account all of their new Morai skills.
^This
Go get blade hurl. Purify spell can't proc if you're disarmed. That's 6 seconds to wail on the person, with them being able to do very little in retaliation and certainly not able to have purify go off. (even if we can cast without a weapon, damage will be nerfed) Weapon disarmed->lower soulforce and you can use Reel In too, since that isn't blocked by antistun.
And the fact that 20 undergeared people can't take out someone whose totally OP isn't a new concept. A skilled 105 r9r3 (I mean full and uses aoes/skills, not hops out of stealth in aps gear and tries to take them down one at a time) sin could wipe a squad of r8/vana people. A skilled r9r3 barb could at the very least give them a hell of a time trying to take him down. I understand that in both cases skill is operative, but the point remains disproportionately overpowered gear is not new, it's just the first time it's really been on casters that we've had a proc, and people aren't used to the huge spike in survivability and difference in way it must be combated.xSonOfCircex-105/103/102 Sage Wiz
DrakeEmpress-101/102/103 Sage Cleric
Gaygasm-101/101/101 Sage Stormbringer
Because I can't stand playing melee classes0 -
In my NW experience R9rr casters are usually taken down sooner or later
R9rr barbs (BigCojones on my server) took nearly 10 minutes to die 1v 20 something
Granted he could not have run the flag with all of us locking him down but even if he held the flag twice and just tanked for 20 minutes he wins by default
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I laugh when i see this kinds of threads made PWI will never change coz this is something intended which is really good, i'm meele but i think casters deserve this.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dream a dream of a life so new, One brimming with potential,
Of starting again, leaving all behind, Only happiness is essential. b:victory
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IMO- Purify needs to be changed.
Balanced -
Marrows give a nice boost to one of the defenses and take away from the other.
God of Frenzy deals double damage but takes away 5% of max hp
Old style True form - gave hp and moving speed at the cost of P.attack
Purify gives, gives and gives, but doesn't take anything back.
This is what needs to be addressed.
A chi cost for example - requires 50 chi to activate
or takes 10 % of max Mana
just some ideas, but you get the point0 -
rage-on! my brothers of the pixel world ;D b:chuckle0
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XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »^This
Go get blade hurl. Purify spell can't proc if you're disarmed. That's 6 seconds to wail on the person, with them being able to do very little in retaliation and certainly not able to have purify go off. (even if we can cast without a weapon, damage will be nerfed) Weapon disarmed->lower soulforce and you can use Reel In too, since that isn't blocked by antistun.
Unless blade hurl triggers the proc, which in my personal experience is very very often and annoying as hell >.>b:cry0 -
I put alot of money into this game because of Purify Spell.So because of some little troll your going to take that away from me?Money I put in just take it away huh?Yeah im sure the dev's gm's will listen to people like me instead.
money talks bullcrap walks b:bye0 -
No don't do it.0
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____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Unless blade hurl triggers the proc, which in my personal experience is very very often and annoying as hell >.>b:cry
Okay, yes, this can happen, but the likelihood of it happening on any one damage doing attack is not high. It only procs frequently when you're getting ganked; in 1 vs 1 it doesn't proc frequently unless they start trying to aps you, but then your back to getting hit 4 or 5 times a second.xSonOfCircex-105/103/102 Sage Wiz
DrakeEmpress-101/102/103 Sage Cleric
Gaygasm-101/101/101 Sage Stormbringer
Because I can't stand playing melee classes0 -
I think the biggest problem is that the effect has no cooldown.
Purify Spell is basically a combination of Wizard Arcane Defense and Archer Elven Alacrity.
Wizard Arcane Defense proc gives auto-purify and has a 25 second cooldown (passive buff).
Archer Elven Alacrity gives anti-stun / speed and has a 3 minute cooldown and takes 1 spark (active skill).
Purify Spell proc gives auto-purify / anti-stun / speed and has a 0 second cooldown... huh?
It probably should have around a 45 second cooldown. This would limit how well it can scale with multiple attackers while not effecting 1v1 ability too much.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Azura - Lost City wrote: »Tbh, I think the way purify should work is this:
When purify works it should:
-Remove movement-related debuffs, only. So, if purify procs it will let you move free again, but if you were amped in any way, the caster would retain that status.
-No increase to speed: I think the increase in speed is what makes purify an overkiller, and yeah makes the bad players good, and good ones unstoppable.
Edit: But then again...
Is not imposible to stop a r9-3 caster. Ofc to stop them you will need to match the caster in gear 1st, and then outsmart them. Last NW, half of my squad, which includes Adroit, dc'ed and entered to another different nation. We met again later, but to fight... That was the best NW I've had so far. The other half of my squad, leaded by Adroit fought agains us. We had like 4-5 fights, and Adroit only won one. This was mainly because my friend, who is a sin, was stun-locking him the whole war. My friend didn't kill Adroit many times, but he was just not letting him play.
So, like it or not, this game has been, and will always be really gear depedant. Unfortunately, some people, like in real life, are really rich, and most are middle class. So, there will always be a few who are very op.
If everyone had the same gear, we wouldn't probably have this disbalance, and 20vs1 rollings. Imagine if 20 full rank9-3s shooted all at the same time agains just one r9-3. I think his charm wouldn't even tick.
Therefore, technically purify effect is not op. The problem that we have really, is the same problem we have always had: a few really op people, and a lot of average power people. So, for this reasons I wouldn't agree about changing purify effect.
Azura, I 100% agree with you. Being that I'm still trying to get my first actual piece of r9 (aside from my ring), I know the whole game of feeling that other people are OP. But fact is fact, and most people fall under "middle class". I vote to TEMPORARILY remove the purify proc's speed effect, until more people have r9r3. That way, NW becomes more fair for all the little FC babies who don't have the skill or ingenuity to deal with it. Myself, I get facerolled non-stop, but I just move on and deal with the fact that I'm under geared. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
sound like 20x TT gears with +1-5 vs R9 3rd cast.0
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XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »Okay, yes, this can happen, but the likelihood of it happening on any one damage doing attack is not high. It only procs frequently when you're getting ganked; in 1 vs 1 it doesn't proc frequently unless they start trying to aps you, but then your back to getting hit 4 or 5 times a second.
Oh yeah i know, my luck just seems to suck lol Whenever blade hurl does land without proc though you can guarentee if i have DD backup they are gunna die pretty damn quickly. Even in Tw many times with your wifey, her proc goes off, IG's up, then 12 secs later she will die so imo the proc isnt even a worry in mass pvp as even if they run away it's just like yeah whatever we will just kill you when bladehurl is off cd xD
People are just grumpy about it cos flag runners with purify can just press w and go win the match. This i disagree with but i also disagree with charger orbs being allowed but meh xD Learn to live with it b:laugh0 -
all about NW point of view. 20x lvl 60-99 vs rank 9 3rd cast.0
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