Are archers really so op in pvp
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Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »When archers purge, the purge procs before damage calculation, so the OP very well could have been oneshot at full buffs
The purge procs after damage calculation. Also the purge doesn't proc at all with any skill that has its own debuff (stun arrow, sharptooth, aim low, etc).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »The purge procs after damage calculation. Also the purge doesn't proc at all with any skill that has its own debuff (stun arrow, sharptooth, aim low, etc).
How sure are you it doesn't apply before dmg calc and what have you done to test this. I've always been told it did.
Also, will you please confirm for me as a highly regarded source that end game archers have the highest patk in game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »How sure are you it doesn't apply before dmg calc and what have you done to test this. I've always been told it did.
Also, will you please confirm for me as a highly regarded source that end game archers have the highest patk in game.
Silly Kni, everyone knows Venos have the highest Physical Attack.0 -
I think archers in mass pvp (not 1vs1) are completely overpowered. They may have poor defenses but that's what comes along with the best range in game, highest patk in game, a, mix of magical and physical attacks, plus a purge proc.
I'm not complaining and i don't want them changed. They deserve that group pvp extreme advantage to warrant their weakness in so many other aspects of the game. They are not a pve or a solo'ing class in any regard but anyone who thinks archers aren't the bane of absolutely everyone in group pvp has no idea what they're talking about.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »How sure are you it doesn't apply before dmg calc and what have you done to test this. I've always been told it did.
Also, will you please confirm for me as a highly regarded source that end game archers have the highest patk in game.
I tested it myself but it was long enough ago I'm only 85% sure of it.
Archers have the highest physical base damage but the skills are all low damage and their ability to spike damage is low compared to other classes.
There is no archer version of auto-wins like:
Barb -> ToP -> mire -> arma ->zerk crit
Wiz -> Spark -> undine -> Faceroll
Seeker -> Sacrificial Slash -> quid pro quo -> Blade Affinity -> Faceroll zerk crit
I'd also say of the 3 end game weapon procs, Spirit Blackhole has the most limited usefulness. It's good as a support skill in fully buffed group PVP while the others are useful in many more circumstances. I don't think any of the other classes would trade their R999 weapon procs for spirit blackhole.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »I tested it myself but it was long enough ago I'm only 85% sure of it.
Archers have the highest physical base damage but the skills are all low damage and their ability to spike damage is low compared to other classes.
There is no archer version of auto-wins like:
Barb -> ToP -> mire -> arma ->zerk crit
Wiz -> Spark -> undine -> Faceroll
Seeker -> Sacrificial Slash -> quid pro quo -> Blade Affinity -> Faceroll zerk crit
I'd also say of the 3 end game weapon procs, Spirit Blackhole has the most limited usefulness. It's good as a support skill in fully buffed group PVP while the others are useful in many more circumstances. I don't think any of the other classes would trade their R999 weapon procs for spirit blackhole.
I would
i wouldn't need to zerk if my enemy wasn't buffed.
Sadly i did not choose axes for r8.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I don't mind the leaps but since archers can stealth they shouldn't be allowed to use stealth pots, just as us sins can't.
otherwise there's really no point calling the class assassin >_> give it to archers and we be the unknown.A road of death or one of life
a sorrowful path or one of joy
whichever you choose, choose for yourself
do not become, someones toy.
f:despise0 -
DanteLamar - Archosaur wrote: »I don't mind the leaps but since archers can stealth they shouldn't be allowed to use stealth pots, just as us sins can't.
otherwise there's really no point calling the class assassin >_> give it to archers and we be the unknown.
Sins can use stealth pots,
Your passive buff just overrides it.
If you'd never leveled your awareness buff you'd have to use pots just the same.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Archers are defensively the worst class in the game. We have 2 or so skills that reduce damage taken. People talk about range and purge being op. Walk forwards 2 steps and any robe will hit us.
Archers purge procs less than any other end game r9r2 proc. it doesn't proc on any skills with their own debuff and our self buff is the most useless in the game.
Lets look at assassins, our fellow LA class, the so called "melee version of archers" and I'll tell you why that statement isn't true.
High chance to avoid status effects - i mean you can QQ about archers having the best antistuns. Anti stuns cost chi. This buff costs next to nothing and wastes a CC from the oppenent. Its like an anti stun and badge of courage in one. (OH YEAH WAIT THATS WHAT PURIFY PROC IS)
Hp feedback on damage
Zerk - a higher proc rate AND can proc on any skill
Insane attack level buff.
Insane array of long lasting CC's.
BETTER CHI SKILLS THAN ARCHERS ( been seeing way too much qq about awaken so GG)
High chance for damage do be reduced to 1.
Deaden nerves.
Archers don't have any of this crazy shizzle. Archers are the most nerfed end game class in comparison to others.
Yes group PK we're not that bad, mostly cause we attack away from a big group of melees so people just dont see us. And yes we have 2 leaps. Big deal.
And back to the point about damage..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1t1qXFIm6_k#t=67s
look at this nonsense.
Thats on a full R9R2 cleric. I hit 5k crits maybe 6k top end. 6x2=12 : still not even close to what this sin hit.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »Archers are defensively the worst class in the game. We have 2 or so skills that reduce damage taken. People talk about range and purge being op. Walk forwards 2 steps and any robe will hit us.
Archers purge procs less than any other end game r9r2 proc. it doesn't proc on any skills with their own debuff and our self buff is the most useless in the game.
Lets look at assassins the so called "melee version of archers" and I'll tell you why that statement isn't true.
High chance to avoid status effects.
Hp feedback on damage
Zerk - a higher proc rate AND can proc on any skill
Insane attack level buff.
Insane array of long lasting CC's.
BETTER CHI SKILLS THAN ARCHERS ( been seeing way too much qq about awaken so GG)
High chance for damage do be reduced to 1.
Deaden nerves.
Archers don't have any of this crazy shizzle. Archers are the most nerfed end game class.
Archers are the most nerfed end game class? Dafuq.
You know the heiro glitch? (charm bypass)? It looks like you 1 shot people with HP charms, the heiro glitch doesn't let your charm tick. Archers aint the most nerfed end game class....0 -
Horosho - Lost City wrote: »Archers are the most nerfed end game class? Dafuq.
You know the heiro glitch? (charm bypass)? It looks like you 1 shot people with HP charms, the heiro glitch doesn't let your charm tick. Archers aint the most nerfed end game class.
I thought that only happen on attack speed above 1.11 aka QS proc or sparked with 2 x crit in row - if those 2 crits is targets hp or more total. and even then, there is no endgame geared chars thats gonna die in 2 crits x.x. happens soo rarely I bypass any persons charm, usually nubs.105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)
Join date: November 2008 - HT.0 -
Heartz - Dreamweaver wrote: »I thought that only happen on attack speed above 1.11 aka QS proc or sparked with 2 x crit in row - if those 2 crits is targets hp or more total. and even then, there is no endgame geared chars thats gonna die in 2 crits x.x. happens soo rarely I bypass any persons charm, usually nubs.
I use this skill order: STA > quickshot > short cast take aim > stunning arrow.
You have to be super fast tho....0 -
Horosho - Lost City wrote: »Archers are the most nerfed end game class? Dafuq.
You know the heiro glitch? (charm bypass)? It looks like you 1 shot people with HP charms, the heiro glitch doesn't let your charm tick. Archers aint the most nerfed end game class.
lol you have to actually be able to 2 shot someone for this to happen. GG. smoke more plox.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
youtube.com/bhavenmurji
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Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »lol you have to actually be able to 2 shot someone for this to happen. GG. smoke more plox.
You don't have to 2 shot someone lolz. Gotta be super fast....0 -
Horosho - Lost City wrote: »You don't have to 2 shot someone lolz. Gotta be super fast.
lol with skill casting?
cool story bro.
Wheres the vid vs R9R2 players?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »lol with skill casting?
cool story bro.
Wheres the vid vs R9R2 players?
I quit this server long time ago lolz. I'm more on P. servers....0 -
Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »I would i wouldn't need to zerk if my enemy wasn't buffed.
Sadly i did not choose axes for r8.
I'll gladly trade purge for zerk. A proc on any skill... must be nice...
Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'll gladly trade purge for zerk. A proc on any skill... must be nice...
I'll purge the mess hall out of you with my bacon axes.I might be black0 -
Since we're trading procs, I'll take Purify Spell kthx.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty
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Even supposing that worked outside of -removed-
1) Ping will take a dump on it anytime.
2) It's so ****ing shaky i've killed people who were using it.
3) All those skills are physical, so GG vs barbs, seekers and BMs.0 -
Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Even supposing that worked outside of -removed-:
1) Ping will take a dump on it anytime.
2) It's so ****ing shaky i've killed people who were using it.
3) All those skills are physical, so GG vs barbs, seekers and BMs.
1. How did you knew. creeper <_<
2. I didn't say people who used the heiro glitch were immortal.
3. I never mentioned it was useful for barbs, seekers, bms and whatever class....0 -
Horosho - Lost City wrote: »1. How did you knew I play pwv. creeper <_<
2. I didn't say people who used the heiro glitch were immortal.
3. I never mentioned it was useful for barbs, seekers, bms and whatever class.
Horosho? You're a LC player? Gtfo omg ._. I see this is why you not bad at PK b:laugh0 -
I don't know for the other servers, but for HL what I can say it's archers are the only class that people have with end game gears/stuff while almost no other class are totally end game as our archers are so ofc the archer sit and one shot everyone.
My director is a wizz R9rr not end game (not jades and not +12 if not mistaking), but yet at 20 persons it took us 10 minutes to take him down. Not cause we are unskilled, but cause the range of gears is too big.
The problem is the whole btw end game and not end game is too big, a end game person cannot be take down by someone not in game even if the end game person is the worse archer (or any class) ever.
That's the problem with PWI, it's based on the gears and not on the talent. You could be the best archer in the world no one will notice you until you get full end game and at that moment people will say that you are so powerful that it's impossible to say if you are good or not.
End game every class is too ''OP'' for ''normal'' people, people speak about archer cause archer is the most popular end game class atm. On HL we have maybe one psy and wizz totally end game the rest it's all archers.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »Horosho? You're a LC player? Gtfo omg ._. I see this is why you not bad at PK b:laugh
Not sure if trolling or being friendly ._....0 -
I might be black0
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Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »I don't know for the other servers, but for HL what I can say it's archers are the only class that people have with end game gears/stuff while almost no other class are totally end game as our archers are so ofc the archer sit and one shot everyone.
My director is a wizz R9rr not end game (not jades and not +12 if not mistaking), but yet at 20 persons it took us 10 minutes to take him down. Not cause we are unskilled, but cause the range of gears is too big.
The problem is the whole btw end game and not end game is too big, a end game person cannot be take down by someone not in game even if the end game person is the worse archer (or any class) ever.
That's the problem with PWI, it's based on the gears and not on the talent. You could be the best archer in the world no one will notice you until you get full end game and at that moment people will say that you are so powerful that it's impossible to say if you are good or not.
End game every class is too ''OP'' for ''normal'' people, people speak about archer cause archer is the most popular end game class atm. On HL we have maybe one psy and wizz totally end game the rest it's all archers.
We're not talking about gear. This is a class discussion thread. Well done, you've established that archers are great at killing things that are lower in gear level. This is the same as every other class.
We're talking about equal gear, completely or close to end game comparisons between archers and other classes.
Archers are at the bottom whereas wizards, seekers and mystics are at the top. Everything else seems to be fairly well balanced in my opinion.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
youtube.com/bhavenmurji
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Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »We're not talking about gear. This is a class discussion thread. Well done, you've established that archers are great at killing things that are lower in gear level. This is the same as every other class.
We're talking about equal gear, completely or close to end game comparisons between archers and other classes.
Archers are at the bottom whereas wizards, seekers and mystics are at the top. Everything else seems to be fairly well balanced in my opinion.
The OP himself don't know the gears the archer had, so he don't even know if it was equally gears or not. By his reaction about take 31k from the archer I assume the OP is not end game gears and the archer was close to end game gears if not totally end game and YOU say the thread is about equally gears people? To me it seems like he was saying end game archers are OP vs end game sins and not end game gears other class and the OP don't sound end game gears at all.
Next time before say someone is out topic read the first post.
All I said was that maybe archers have that reputation to best the most OP class at end game gears cause they are more popular and on some servers there's no other class then archers with end games gears, but that don't mean they are the most OP class end game.today i was in nw with my sin, and i saw a r9 archer.
Half of my nation was trying to kill him, but he was just 1 shoting everyone around and runing away.
Even few r9 3 recast sin couldnt kill him.
Couldnt see his name and gear, but that was really op.
He hit me for 31k critical wtf, and i had buffs, 30 def lvl, and 7k phy def.
^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
Please stick to the topic at hand. Whether or not someone is on topic is not the topic. :P0
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oVenusArmanio wrote: »Please stick to the topic at hand. Whether or not someone is on topic is not the topic. :P
Psh.....Whatever. XD
Anywayz Archers are weak compared to sins and seekers and on special occasions barbs.I might be black0 -
Funny. Im no where near end-game(R9 ring and APS gear with Dark Death sac and int all +5) and most archers I can handle one vs one easy. Even if they start attacking first. If i have literaly nothing on as far as buffs yea everyone once in awhile Ill get one shotted. But if Im fully buffed with sage Focused mind and Sage DN There really hasnt been an archer I cant take down. b:chuckle10x R9 Sage Sin Active
9x Demon Cleric Active
9x Sage Psy Active
8x Mystic Active
9x Demon BM Active
8x Seeker Active
Been around awhile but never really play that long to get anywhere.b:victory0
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