Are archers really so op in pvp

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

Funny. Im no where near end-game(R9 ring and APS gear with Dark Death sac and int all +5) and most archers I can handle one vs one easy. Even if they start attacking first. If i have literaly nothing on as far as buffs yea everyone once in awhile Ill get one shotted. But if Im fully buffed with sage Focused mind and Sage DN There really hasnt been an archer I cant take down. b:chuckle

You know what's really funny? I've never seen you outside west.

But even so - archers are not OP.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

Funny. Im no where near end-game(R9 ring and APS gear with Dark Death sac and int all +5) and most archers I can handle one vs one easy. Even if they start attacking first. If i have literaly nothing on as far as buffs yea everyone once in awhile Ill get one shotted. But if Im fully buffed with sage Focused mind and Sage DN There really hasnt been an archer I cant take down. b:chuckle

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

But if Im fully buffed with sage Focused mind and Sage DN There really hasnt been an archer I cant take down.

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

fully buffed with sage Focused mind

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

Focused mind

I totally buy that you're killing R9s with DDTs.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

lul..

Decus - Dreamweaver

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

Funny. Im no where near end-game(R9 ring and APS gear with Dark Death sac and int all +5) and most archers I can handle one vs one easy. Even if they start attacking first. If i have literaly nothing on as far as buffs yea everyone once in awhile Ill get one shotted. But if Im fully buffed with sage Focused mind and Sage DN There really hasnt been an archer I cant take down. b:chuckle

You ought to stop fighting tt90s and confusing them for r9's.

Nightstalk - Raging Tide

Im talking NW....honestly...lol I know what R9 looks like >.>

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »

Im talking NW....honestly...lol I know what R9 looks like >.>

You silly piece of one shot fodder.

Nightstalk - Raging Tide

xD.....never said I wasn't a one shot. Maybe I need to explain myself better. I get one shotted all the time. in fact I get frustrated with how much I die all the damn time. Allllll im saying is that Archers in general really dont give me that much of a hard time. It would stand to reason that yes..... am fully end-game geared archer one shot me all day long. Im just saying,most of the archers I have met in NW havnt given me a hard time. I use Focused mind yes because I dont have Sage Tidal and I survive better with it. Ive tanked a lot of groups in NW with miss miss and 1 dmg for quite a awhile before I kill a few off and die. Ive come across OP squads and cant doo a damn thing at all lol.

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Horosho - Lost City wrote: »

Not sure if trolling or being friendly ._.

You don't remember Jibs you nab? -.-

Horosho - Lost City

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

You don't remember Jibs you nab? -.-

Now I do, the sin from Mofos right?

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Horosho - Lost City wrote: »

Now I do, the sin from Mofos right?

Lol ye b:laugh

Horosho - Lost City

Jesusisback - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol ye b:laugh

Wow hai :P anyways if u want to talk more message me via forum.

Oups_Dead - Harshlands

they hit hard but they r squishy as hell :P
a dot archer 3rd can be 1 shotted with knife throw unspaked,,, personal experience :P it's often who hits first vs a sin and since u can stealth 24/7 :P
however def lvls sharded archer r more of a problem IF buffed they r pretty tanky

DanteLamar - Archosaur

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Sins can use stealth pots,
Your passive buff just overrides it.

If you'd never leveled your awareness buff you'd have to use pots just the same.

the description clearly says can't be used by assassins.

even w/o lvling our passive buff, we can't use it, even trying to click it will give you the system msg saying `incorrect class` or something like it. b:bye

Sint - Harshlands

Horosho - Lost City wrote: »

1. How did you knew. creeper <_<
2. I didn't say people who used the heiro glitch were immortal.
3. I never mentioned it was useful for barbs, seekers, bms and whatever class.

Those classes give archers most trouble, which is why i brought it up.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

We're not talking about gear. This is a class discussion thread. Well done, you've established that archers are great at killing things that are lower in gear level. This is the same as every other class.
We're talking about equal gear, completely or close to end game comparisons between archers and other classes.
Archers are at the bottom whereas wizards, seekers and mystics are at the top. Everything else seems to be fairly well balanced in my opinion.

Wizards are at the top, but barbs are not? The thread title is "are archers really so OP in pvp, to which the answer is obviously, yes, at least if they have more gear than anyone else. Bella adds that they often do, since they're a popular class, and therefore even unskilled halfwits who simply csed the gears can play them vs undergeared adversaries. (you're a good example of this.)

AshenSkies - Heavens Tear

I had a fun experience in NW last monday(aussie time).

This archer from Radiance called aeroboi decided he wanted to have some fun with me.(Me being R93 +6 armor and +10 neck, cape, helm and +10 G16 nirvana sword)(him being R9something +10 full JoSD). We 1v1ed for a bit him with full buffs me with self buffs due to his purge. Then I decide f*ck it, I'll just spark combo and crit him for 22k~. Then he ressed and we 1v1 again, and I hit him for 22k~ again.

Don't know what his exact gear was(atleast +10 with JoSD in all R9(2?) pieces) but he died very easily, even fully buffed.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

even unskilled halfwits who simply csed the gears can play them vs undergeared adversaries. (you're a good example of this.)

Why so butthurt?
You don't even know me.
You talk good game, but then again so does geckofreak. You also have nothing constructive ever to say. Nice trolling.
Well done captain obvious. A better geared person is probably always going to always win out of the 2. In very few cases the lower geared wins. I'm sure you know all about that, it's probably happened to you many times hence the passion with which you push this point which is really quite pointless.

The op was asking if our CLASS is overpowered. We know he was fighting a better geared person, he knows that too. He wanted to know if we're just as OP vs other classes. The answer is no. Please read before you come in all guns blazing with nothing but flaming comments and stupid comments.

bolocactu

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why so butthurt?
You don't even know me.
You talk good game, but then again so does geckofreak. You also have nothing constructive ever to say. Nice trolling.
Well done captain obvious. A better geared person is probably always going to always win out of the 2. In very few cases the lower geared wins. I'm sure you know all about that, it's probably happened to you many times hence the passion with which you push this point which is really quite pointless.

The op was asking if our CLASS is overpowered. We know he was fighting a better geared person, he knows that too. He wanted to know if we're just as OP vs other classes. The answer is no. Please read before you come in all guns blazing with nothing but flaming comments and stupid comments.

Damn! Bhavyy is a boss!

Quilue - Sanctuary

Horosho - Lost City wrote: »

Archers are the most nerfed end game class? Dafuq.
You know the heiro glitch? (charm bypass)? It looks like you 1 shot people with HP charms, the heiro glitch doesn't let your charm tick. Archers aint the most nerfed end game class.

Unless it's some other glitch that I don't know about...The "Heiro glitch" allows 2 hits before charm ticks. If you cannot bypass in 2 hits you're not going to kill anyone before their charm ticks.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I tested it myself but it was long enough ago I'm only 85% sure of it.

Archers have the highest physical base damage but the skills are all low damage and their ability to spike damage is low compared to other classes.

There is no archer version of auto-wins like:
Barb -> ToP -> mire -> arma ->zerk crit
Wiz -> Spark -> undine -> Faceroll
Seeker -> Sacrificial Slash -> quid pro quo -> Blade Affinity -> Faceroll zerk crit

I'd also say of the 3 end game weapon procs, Spirit Blackhole has the most limited usefulness. It's good as a support skill in fully buffed group PVP while the others are useful in many more circumstances. I don't think any of the other classes would trade their R999 weapon procs for spirit blackhole.

Are you kidding me? I would love to have a purge end game sword for my seeker xD Have you ever seen a seeker try solo-ing the first vile lunar boss? Not a fun thing to do. I have to switch to an archer every time I get to that boss to solo it. A purge weapon for a seeker would easily make them the ultimate tank against bosses that has attack and defense buffs in pve. And in mass pvp, they would make a better aoe purger than a barraging archer with their 3 wide-radius range aoe skills, 2 melee aoe range skills, and last but not least vortex that does the weird 3 attacks per iteration. Of course, having played an archer for a while, I admit that GoF would be way too op for any archers.

Kniraven - Lost City

DanteLamar - Archosaur wrote: »

the description clearly says can't be used by assassins.

even w/o lvling our passive buff, we can't use it, even trying to click it will give you the system msg saying `incorrect class` or something like it. b:bye

You are mistaken sir. The +31 pots can't be used by an assassin. The +30 pots can.
See for yourself.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are you kidding me? I would love to have a purge end game sword for my seeker xD Have you ever seen a seeker try solo-ing the first vile lunar boss? Not a fun thing to do. I have to switch to an archer every time I get to that boss to solo it. A purge weapon for a seeker would easily make them the ultimate tank against bosses that has attack and defense buffs in pve. And in mass pvp, they would make a better aoe purger than a barraging archer with their 3 wide-radius range aoe skills, 2 melee aoe range skills, and last but not least vortex that does the weird 3 attacks per iteration. Of course, having played an archer for a while, I admit that GoF would be way too op for any archers.

You're just reinforcing Ast's point, though. SB is situational and not always effective, GoF is always effective. You'd want SB for something that is admittedly limited in scope. I am sure you'd not want SB over GoF all the time. I certainly wouldn't on my assassin.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You're just reinforcing Ast's point, though. SB is situational and not always effective, GoF is always effective. You'd want SB for something that is admittedly limited in scope. I am sure you'd not want SB over GoF all the time. I certainly wouldn't on my assassin.

GoF doesn't matter much at all in PVE as zhening on mobs isn't really a challenge for seekers and especially if done as a squad. Trash mobs just dies fast, and faster when combo with tangling mire and sub sea. Even with GoF you still won't be able to out damage a 5 aps char on bosses. So I can say the same for GoF being not always necessarily and desirable. I recall when r9 for seekers first came out, they would occasionally die when zhening on mobs in 9 trials because of the procs from GoF causing them to lose too much hp at once. Now image that happening with a barraging archer who can't heal with BP like a seeker can with vortex, and having that many mobs on them. That would be a nightmare for any archer and would wish they didn't have GoF. So much for "GoF is always effective."

And of course, a sin is a totally different story - with their aps damage, higher crits and single target focus. But you know what, you have no idea how many times I've seen sins with GoF dying on bosses because they steal aggro, the boss attack buffs itself, and GoF procs too much. Then they QQ about not getting credit for the kill as they die the same time the boss did. Or the squad has to hold the boss and wait for them to come back with the final warsong boss. Certainly, GoF isn't that desirable in situations like these.

And why would purge daggers not be ideal? With the high aps rate, purging would happen more frequently than a bow or melee wep. One of a sins worst fear in pve and pvp is a boss/target that has bramble. Quick purges on cata barbs is even better than having GoF procs in this situation. Sin's don't have to think twice before attacking anyone, and anyone who is purge is basically fish food.

Dylena - Raging Tide

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

GoF doesn't matter much at all in PVE as zhening on mobs isn't really a challenge for seekers and especially if done as a squad. Trash mobs just dies fast, and faster when combo with tangling mire and sub sea. Even with GoF you still won't be able to out damage a 5 aps char on bosses. So I can say the same for GoF being not always necessarily and desirable. I recall when r9 for seekers first came out, they would occasionally die when zhening on mobs in 9 trials because of the procs from GoF causing them to lose too much hp at once. Now image that happening with a barraging archer who can't heal with BP like a seeker can with vortex, and having that many mobs on them. That would be a nightmare for any archer and would wish they didn't have GoF. So much for "GoF is always effective."

And of course, a sin is a totally different story - with their aps damage, higher crits and single target focus. But you know what, you have no idea how many times I've seen sins with GoF dying on bosses because they steal aggro, the boss attack buffs itself, and GoF procs too much. Then they QQ about not getting credit for the kill as they die the same time the boss did. Or the squad has to hold the boss and wait for them to come back with the final warsong boss. Certainly, GoF isn't that desirable in situations like these.

And why would purge daggers not be ideal? With the high aps rate, purging would happen more frequently than a bow or melee wep. One of a sins worst fear in pve and pvp is a boss/target that has bramble. Quick purges on cata barbs is even better than having GoF procs in this situation. Sin's don't have to think twice before attacking anyone, and anyone who is purge is basically fish food.

You speak of frenzy on PVE and quickly jump on purge to PVP, I'm not sure what you're trying to say and I highly doubt you're aware of it either.

It doesn't matter if you AoE or single target hit, GoF doesn't consume out of numbers. Lets face it, if those sins you're speaking of are dying in PvE thanks to GoF then you might as well ask them to uninstall for being terrible at this game. Nothing was written in stone that sins MUST APS and kill themselves on bramble or be stupid in other ways.

GoF is superior to purge, its as simple as that. If archer wielded it we would in fact imbalance the game incredibly high.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

GoF doesn't matter much at all in PVE as zhening on mobs isn't really a challenge for seekers and especially if done as a squad. Trash mobs just dies fast, and faster when combo with tangling mire and sub sea. Even with GoF you still won't be able to out damage a 5 aps char on bosses. So I can say the same for GoF being not always necessarily and desirable. I recall when r9 for seekers first came out, they would occasionally die when zhening on mobs in 9 trials because of the procs from GoF causing them to lose too much hp at once. Now image that happening with a barraging archer who can't heal with BP like a seeker can with vortex, and having that many mobs on them. That would be a nightmare for any archer and would wish they didn't have GoF. So much for "GoF is always effective."

And of course, a sin is a totally different story - with their aps damage, higher crits and single target focus. But you know what, you have no idea how many times I've seen sins with GoF dying on bosses because they steal aggro, the boss attack buffs itself, and GoF procs too much. Then they QQ about not getting credit for the kill as they die the same time the boss did. Or the squad has to hold the boss and wait for them to come back with the final warsong boss. Certainly, GoF isn't that desirable in situations like these.

And why would purge daggers not be ideal? With the high aps rate, purging would happen more frequently than a bow or melee wep. One of a sins worst fear in pve and pvp is a boss/target that has bramble. Quick purges on cata barbs is even better than having GoF procs in this situation. Sin's don't have to think twice before attacking anyone, and anyone who is purge is basically fish food.

Yeah pretty much what Dylena said.
Another thing you're forgetting, archers are aoe classes. Gof is an effect that effects all targets under an aoe. A purge effects single targets. I'd rather have gof. Maybe it would stop people getting OP weapons with such **** armour, etc. you can't just say "oh well gof wouldn't work for squishy archers because they'd die too much."

What kind of rainbow farting shizzle are you smoking.

If you're squishy, you're gonna die anyway. In any case, this thread is about pvp. Purge on a seeker would never work anyway because you have stances which are negative status effects and if not, used to cause negative status effects. Purge on sins daggers... lol youre kidding right? The class that is so heavily dependent on CC skills to be able to take out single targets better than anyone else because that's what they're designed to do? Purge would be entirely useless to them unless they Aps which is pointless anywy. Please don't come on forums and talk nonsense like you know what you're talking about. Go back to pve.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yeah pretty much what Dylena said.
Another thing you're forgetting, archers are aoe classes. Gof is an effect that effects all targets under an aoe. A purge effects single targets. I'd rather have gof. Maybe it would stop people getting OP weapons with such **** armour, etc. you can't just say "oh well gof wouldn't work for squishy archers because they'd die too much."

What kind of rainbow farting shizzle are you smoking.

If you're squishy, you're gonna die anyway. In any case, this thread is about pvp. Purge on a seeker would never work anyway because you have stances which are negative status effects and if not, used to cause negative status effects. Purge on sins daggers... lol youre kidding right? The class that is so heavily dependent on CC skills to be able to take out single targets better than anyone else because that's what they're designed to do? Purge would be entirely useless to them unless they Aps which is pointless anywy. Please don't come on forums and talk nonsense like you know what you're talking about. Go back to pve.

GoF works the same way as Purge. When it procs during an aoe attack, it doesn't mean GoF will affect every single target. You are the one who don't know what you are talking about sir. Stances on a seeker is by choice, and the bonus damage obtain from stance debuffs is very small so you don't have to use them. GoF's effect means to do double damage, its the same as a crit. With the exception that it can be combined with a crit to do 4x damage, which doesn't happen all that often. It's good for pvp to win based on this luck, but not really needed for pve. It's so highly overrated. My seeker is fully r8r with 8+ refines and I can beat all the r9r22 12+ refine seeker on my server in the tigers event almost all the time scoring 15-19k points.

Purge on a fist/dagger/claw would be one of the most op weapons in the game if it ever happens. You can ask any high level tanky players and they will tell you being purged in pvp is one of the most annoying and easy way to die compared to the chances of a zerk+crit attack. Why else do you think purge doesn't exist on aps weapons? In NW so many sins tried to use CC skills on my seeker that they fail to kill me in time before I get away. If they had purge daggers, they could have easily purged my def levels and buffs away in a few secs and killed me for sure.

Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »

You speak of frenzy on PVE and quickly jump on purge to PVP, I'm not sure what you're trying to say and I highly doubt you're aware of it either.


GoF is superior to purge, its as simple as that. If archer wielded it we would in fact imbalance the game incredibly high.

Any archer with a purge bow has a better chance of taking a cata barb down than an archer with a GoF bow.

Everyone now a days is so blinded and addicted to GoF, just like with high aps a year ago. Because people are too enticed by wanting to one shot everyone with zerk+crit instead of relaying on skills to kill their opponents.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

GoF works the same way as Purge. When it procs during an aoe attack, it doesn't mean GoF will affect every single target.

Nah you're wrong.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Any archer with a purge bow has a better chance of taking a cata barb down than an archer with a GoF bow.

It's impossible for archers to kill cata-quality barbs. If you're implying a purge bow enables you to kill top geared barbs that's a bunch of ****.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Archers are OP if you are a purged arcane or a TT90 caster

/thread

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nah you're wrong.



It's impossible for archers to kill cata-quality barbs. If you're implying a purge bow enables you to kill top geared barbs that's a bunch of ****.

Of course it's impossible for any single class to kill a cata barb on its own. I did say "cata" barb - implying that it's in TW with a barb pulling a cata in terms of mass pvp.

I grind alot in VoS on the avalanch crushers using a GoF sword. My aoe melee attack does about 5k base damage. If it is a crit or if GoF procs, that means that the 5k damage will be 10k ish. However, after clearing my damage log each time - there will always be a hand full of numbers in the 5k after every single attack, and never once have every single damage number be 9k-10k+. Meaning that GoF doesn't proc for every single target.


http://i48.tinypic.com/2qurk2c.jpg

As you can see in the damage log:

- Base damage is 5-6k
- Any GoF proc damage or crit is 10kish
- Any 4x damage is 20kish

GoF don't proc for every single target. Most people who pks hits like 3-5 targets and seeing the large numbers assumes it procs for every target. But my sample pool of numbers is 30+.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qurk2c.jpg

As you can see in the damage log:

- Base damage is 5-6k
- Any GoF proc damage or crit is 10kish
- Any 4x damage is 20kish

I highlighted the part you lied about lol. There is not a single 5k damage in that log.
Your lowest amount was 6977... two times 6977 is 13954 and four times 6977 is 27908.
Of course the 4x value never appears in that log because you're wrong.

6977 = increase pdef mob non-crit
13955 = increse pdef mob crit
10024 = normal mob non-crit
20048 = normal mob crit

There is no per mob zerk and you just proved it.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course it's impossible for any single class to kill a cata barb on its own. I did say "cata" barb - implying that it's in TW with a barb pulling a cata in terms of mass pvp.

Both seekers and wizards can 1 shot cata barbs in the right circumstances. I think barbs can do it too given a zerk crit mire top arma.

And if you're talking about 10 people shooting at a barb there is no way I call that an archer "taking down" a cata barb. That's an archer playing a support role instead of a primary DD.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

GoF works the same way as Purge. When it procs during an aoe attack, it doesn't mean GoF will affect every single target. You are the one who don't know what you are talking about sir. Stances on a seeker is by choice, and the bonus damage obtain from stance debuffs is very small so you don't have to use them. GoF's effect means to do double damage, its the same as a crit. With the exception that it can be combined with a crit to do 4x damage, which doesn't happen all that often. It's good for pvp to win based on this luck, but not really needed for pve. It's so highly overrated. My seeker is fully r8r with 8+ refines and I can beat all the r9r22 12+ refine seeker on my server in the tigers event almost all the time scoring 15-19k points.

Purge on a fist/dagger/claw would be one of the most op weapons in the game if it ever happens. You can ask any high level tanky players and they will tell you being purged in pvp is one of the most annoying and easy way to die compared to the chances of a zerk+crit attack. Why else do you think purge doesn't exist on aps weapons? In NW so many sins tried to use CC skills on my seeker that they fail to kill me in time before I get away. If they had purge daggers, they could have easily purged my def levels and buffs away in a few secs and killed me for sure.




Any archer with a purge bow has a better chance of taking a cata barb down than an archer with a GoF bow.

Everyone now a days is so blinded and addicted to GoF, just like with high aps a year ago. Because people are too enticed by wanting to one shot everyone with zerk+crit instead of relaying on skills to kill their opponents.

I highlighted the bits that made me lol in red.
Go back to pve. You don't know what you're talking about.