Are archers really so op in pvp

Dylena - Raging Tide

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Any archer with a purge bow has a better chance of taking a cata barb down than an archer with a GoF bow.

Everyone now a days is so blinded and addicted to GoF, just like with high aps a year ago. Because people are too enticed by wanting to one shot everyone with zerk+crit instead of relaying on skills to kill their opponents.

Good sir, once again you make no sense. First you talk about 5 aps zerking and its wonders, then you're on relaying on zerk crit means you're not skilled yet those people skill spamming along with perfect stun locking and debuffing unlike the 5 aps zerk bramblers.

Like Asterelle said, you are wrong and maybe its time to wake up from lala land and see it for yourself. GoF works as a selfbuff for one hit, once you zerk its like a status that isn't shown as a logo, everything you hit is zerked (Consums the HP and in return doubles the damage on everything that gets hit).

Banndit - Heavens Tear

To a large extent, its to do with archers attack damage Vs oponents defence and the consistency of both their damage output.

For example, in a 1vs1,

- if archers and oponets both have +10 weap but 0 defence, archers would win 10/10 time by simply using auto/normal attack. Obviously op

- if defence of both is raiesed so that archers oponent can obsorb 3 normal non critical damage, archers would still win 10/10 time by using the few skills they have. eg, stun, lock, slow, range advantage. still op

- if defence of both is raised to the point so that non archers can obsorb say 10 of archers demon spark regardless of crit or not, archers will lose 10/10 time. obviously under powered.

The reason and to the 2nd part is that archers damage output is not constant, and drop quite alot especially comparing to other class, assuming that they will use all their adavanges at the start which is normal practice atm.

The damage output may be more then most others at the start , and given their chance of a first attack + range advantage will make undergeared players scream over powered, but once their advantages is used up, their damage will drop quite alot which is why they lose in a 1 vs 1. This is something most dont' see or understand. Its not simply because of the range penalty too.

Simply put, its much to do with archers damage Vs defence of their oponents. In a 1vs1, they are weak. In a mass pvp they are given more time for a number of reason, as their advantages are amplified, and their disadvantage are reduced. Comparing to other class, their damage output is not consistent as others, making them weak in a 1vs1.


From my experience, I know how op my archer can be against undergeared players as I 1 hit some sins and cleric, but I also know what seems impossible at time as I try to kill a cleric even though I supprise them from max range with a spark. As for me, I'm switching to another class for nw because I get bored of waiting for others or me to die as g16 la don't have much intervals any more. Still fun which I'll play still play but I prefere the kill or be kill when playing an archer.

Sint - Harshlands

It should be noted that, If i were to get GoF on my r9 bow, i'd still be free to acquire an n2 bow with purge on it, which would be the ideal backup weapon, and give me the best of both worlds. As a weapon, GoF far outshines SB. As a tool, SB is unbeatable.

chunleilu

Archers are one of the most balaced classes in PWI, it is very unfortunate to see that other classes are broken hence people want more for archers. Rather than making Archers more OP I would hope PWI fixes the other broken classes.

@Asterelle,

Do you actually want to be able to solo an end game Cata barb on an Archer? Or would you rather want the game to be fixed so that it requires team work to take down a end game barb? Wouldn't it be much better for PWI to fix the game as it is supposed to be, Barbs = Tanks can be ganked or killed by good skilled Arcanes, Archers = DDs who strong against Arcanes, BMs = Supports DDs.

Seekers and Arcanes with +12 JOSD and purify wep are broken why do people want archers to become broken too I dont understand, why not fix the broken classes rather than making another class broken.

Back in the day PvP was fun now a days its End game people 1 shotting other end game people. What fun is in that?

Decus - Dreamweaver

chunleilu wrote: »

Archers are one of the most balaced classes in PWI, it is very unfortunate to see that other classes are broken hence people want more for archers. Rather than making Archers more OP I would hope PWI fixes the other broken classes.

@Asterelle,

Do you actually want to be able to solo an end game Cata barb on an Archer? Or would you rather want the game to be fixed so that it requires team work to take down a end game barb? Wouldn't it be much better for PWI to fix the game as it is supposed to be, Barbs = Tanks can be ganked or killed by good skilled Arcanes, Archers = DDs who strong against Arcanes, BMs = Supports DDs.

Seekers and Arcanes with +12 JOSD and purify wep are broken why do people want archers to become broken too I dont understand, why not fix the broken classes rather than making another class broken.

Back in the day PvP was fun now a days its End game people 1 shotting other end game people. What fun is in that?

I don't think you read the post very well. Ast never said he wanted to be able to solo a cata barb.

chunleilu

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't think you read the post very well. Ast never said he wanted to be able to solo a cata barb.

My mistake then it seemed to me he was implying since Wizards and Seekers can 1 or 2 shot an end game cata barb he wanted Archers to be able to do the same. I guess I misinterpreted his posts.

But to the point, I would still like the game to be Fixed, making it balanced rather than who 1 shots who faster.

Sint - Harshlands

Balance has been gone ever since barbs came out and have geddon + a move that makes it unlikely to miss. Sorry dude, but when you have a class that nobody should be able to kill alone, i find it rather unbalanced to allow that class to kill anyone.

bolocactu

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

Balance has been gone ever since barbs came out and have geddon + a move that makes it unlikely to miss. Sorry dude, but when you have a class that nobody should be able to kill alone, i find it rather unbalanced to allow that class to kill anyone.

Barbs are an original class.

Sint - Harshlands

bolocactu wrote: »

Barbs are an original class.

Exactly.

Idr if they were in older versions of the game, though, i may be confusing them with something from another game.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

Balance has been gone ever since barbs came out and have geddon + a move that makes it unlikely to miss. Sorry dude, but when you have a class that nobody should be able to kill alone, i find it rather unbalanced to allow that class to kill anyone.

Indeed. The difference between tiger and human form should be vastly bigger imo. Barb is supposed to be tank and deal little damage in PvE. That would however make him unviable in PvP as he would not kill anyone and barely ever be killed. So he needs to have a skill that makes him do more damage, but be less tanky for pvp. He actually got that, its human form. But the difference should be much bigger to really clearly define those different roles. And the catabarb is ofcourse a specialty role in PvP. There he needs to be very tanky and indeed not be able to be killed by a single player. So that would fit if he could do this in tank mode. If he was to be made almost PvP immoratal in tiger mode (but weaken its tiger skills in exchange for better agro control), maybe the cooldown of true form should be increased so his "imortality" cant be abused in pvp too much for hit and run stuff.

Of course all just speculation, nothing will ever be changed like this and thus im not suggesting even any discussion on it. Just thinking of how things could have been
It looks like this is how the game is designed anyway. But of course the power creep effect ****ed up the whole balance and design. Equipment is so strong that end game barbs are base vit builds. because of that and the equipment bonusses, the damage modifier got so big that the 50% weapon damage reduction in tiger mode is insignificant. And the PWEs money making invention of guardian charms requires all classes to do so much damage if there is to be any chance of killing one another that the defence in tiger form is also not all that immortal. (I really think the existence of guardian charms is one the worst things done to this game, probably second after aps)

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

I kinda like charms, actually

adds a very challenging aspect to pvp, managing not only your own but also the other player's charms. Not a lot of games require as many defensive checkpoints in pvp as PWI. I love it.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

maybe i first need to start getting some PvP experience to learn to apreciate them.

For now, they feel like cheating in PvE, like an insane expense that is virtually required if im gonna do NW and as explained the reason that damages have to be so high that all i read about pvp is complaints about 1 shotting.

OoArCsTeRoO - Sanctuary

Nah without charms melee's would be hard to PvP on against Ranged.

Colum - Raging Tide

If they want even smaller dmg output for a barb in tiger form then they should fix the damn aggro system.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

If they want even smaller dmg output for a barb in tiger form then they should fix the damn aggro system.

yes and make it a system instead of one and a half agro skill.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Back on topic, Archers are prolly weakest 1 vs 1 class in the game. Least I find R9+ archers far easier to kill than any of the other classes on similar gear - R999 bow still hurts like hell though.

As far as having purge daggers? Just no, I cant see any real use for them, only little advantage when I cant bother taking my purge bow out on PvE. Where I would use purge? TT2-3 ape, cant bother even getting my bow out, purge on daggers would be nice there. TT3-X steelation? If I stuck on range, when he goes APS, for purging with daggers, I would die like an idiot. Vile Cannonfist? That thing hits so hard that I wouldnt dare to use daggers with purge as pulling aggro off HA would be far too likely. As for purging bramble? I would take absurd damage before ever purging it with daggers. When it comes to other buffs on people, purge would be helpful but I would take zerk any day over it.

Ps. Is it just me or anybody else having nightmares of sage archers with their 70%+ crit rate and mentioned zerk on bow?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Back on topic, Archers are prolly weakest 1 vs 1 class in the game. Least I find R9+ archers far easier to kill than any of the other classes on similar gear - R999 bow still hurts like hell though.

As far as having purge daggers? Just no, I cant see any real use for them, only little advantage when I cant bother taking my purge bow out on PvE. Where I would use purge? TT2-3 ape, cant bother even getting my bow out, purge on daggers would be nice there. TT3-X steelation? If I stuck on range, when he goes APS, for purging with daggers, I would die like an idiot. Vile Cannonfist? That thing hits so hard that I wouldnt dare to use daggers with purge as pulling aggro off HA would be far too likely. As for purging bramble? I would take absurd damage before ever purging it with daggers. When it comes to other buffs on people, purge would be helpful but I would take zerk any day over it.

Ps. Is it just me or anybody else having nightmares of sage archers with their 70%+ crit rate and mentioned zerk on bow?

trip spark-fully charged sage take aim zerkcrit b:dirty