Which Class Needs An Upgrade?

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Skaitavia wrote: »

(Psys are even given great additions and skill revamps!)

hmm what additions for psys? the new skills we got are too costly to be used, so no they are not great o.o

MetzliDemon - Harshlands · February 2013

I think clerics should have an attack skill that knocks back the target as the others magic classes.

Just what I remember now, of course, there's a lot more things on another classes that needs to be changed.

Buff_me - Harshlands · February 2013

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

hmm what additions for psys? the new skills we got are too costly to be used, so no they are not great o.o

Do you really rate mp as a cost?o.o

Safeng - Sanctuary · February 2013

Buff_me - Harshlands wrote: »

Do you really rate mp as a cost?o.o

Chi.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · February 2013

Buff_me - Harshlands wrote: »

Do you really rate mp as a cost?o.o

Two sparks for both of those skills is pretty costly. It would be nice if Psionic Link at least costed one spark. (

Telekinesis though)

Buff_me - Harshlands · February 2013

Oh right, dumb me.

ArmaniEx - Harshlands · February 2013

Archers lol, stun qs auto attack and ppl die...archers are broken as can be, especially on HL where there are now more archers than sins. 1) easy to play and you can push over 70% crit lol 2) if you will surge and wing of grace you can't be kept still.

As for seekers, I don't know why ppl really say their broken, on HL we consider them useless and in nw or pk we usually sleep or stun them and move on. This is not because we don't have any op ones, we have plenty.

I would say bms, almost ALL of their skills burn chi, the bms chi system needs a revamp.

Suikyo - Raging Tide · February 2013

ArmaniEx - Harshlands wrote: »

Archers lol, stun qs auto attack and ppl die...archers are broken as can be, especially on HL where there are now more archers than sins. 1) easy to play and you can push over 70% crit lol 2) if you will surge and wing of grace you can't be kept still.

As for seekers, I don't know why ppl really say their broken, on HL we consider them useless and in nw or pk we usually sleep or stun them and move on. This is not because we don't have any op ones, we have plenty.

I would say bms, almost ALL of their skills burn chi, the bms chi system needs a revamp.

tell me how an archer stun + auto atk could kill a r9rr wiz/seeker/barb/psy?, easily a seeker could actually one shot any other class equaly geared but psys on white voodoo, wizzies with stone barrier and barbs, bm dont need a revamp, just a re skin to look better, their chi consumption isnt that big as other classes(aka barbs, mystics)

Longknife - Harshlands · February 2013

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol. Seekers are the most broken class in the game.

Archers have the highest p attack yet seekers barbs sins and bms can hit harder with a zerk than we can with a purge.

Compared to psychics and sins and seekers, archers require so much more chi to defend themselves or cast cc skills.

Archers are defensively one of the worst classes even if we have leaps lol. Every class gets a useful self buff some get more than one. Archers do not.

In TW a seeker is gonna go down a whole lot quicker than an archer, simply because the archer has a means to remain mobile at all times whereas the seeker does not. Same can be said for most NWs.

If you think archer is underpowered, then you probably haven't realized your defense is gotten via positioning and your mobility, not via hardcore stats.

I mean Psys have **** stats aswell. Would you call us underpowered? No because we have other means to act as defenses. So do archers.

I'd also like to take this moment to thank my Psy brethren for not being so embarassingly bias and selfish as the archer and sin community apparently are.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide · February 2013

Yes. I forgot evasion is the new JOSD and that everyone is sharding this because of how amazing it is defensively. Great argument there. I think you've definitely proved how the archer buff is better than a 30 defense level self buff, a buff that hurts other people when they hit you, a buff that silences people when they hit you, a buff that gives you more max hp, a buff that gives you more attack, a buff that gives you more phys or mag defense, a buff that heals you when you've been hit, a buff that gives you hp back upon dealing damage, a buff that makes you nearly impossible to debuff, a buff that reduces the number of crits you take, a buff that makes you shoot backwards when you take physical damage, a buff that resurrects you automatically when you die and a buff that absorbs physical damage to your mp instead of hp.

Good job people. Lets take what we can from this and shard evasion.

Eoria - Harshlands · February 2013

Sins can gtfo. Same with archers, honestly. To put it into perspective, archer is basically the AD carry role in a certain you-know-what game. If your positioning is terrible or your target priority is terrible or, god fobid, your support is bad, then yeah. It's no ****ing wonder if you die easily. The only bone I will throw you is making the archer m/s buff not be overwritten by, well, everything.

Anyway, I'm going to agree with others in this thread that have stated venos need a buff to their fox form skills that aren't the purge/debuffs. As it stands now, they're mostly useless except like...Stunning Blow? But that costs a spark.

Lecus - Lost City · February 2013

What is support?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · February 2013

Archer is one of the best classes at killing lower geared people. At the highest levels of play against equal gear R999+12 JOSD they are kinda bad. Alot of it is because Spirit blackhole just isn't as good as purify spell or GoF except in a supporting fashion in TW.

At R999+12 josd, archer has worse 'mobility' than all the caster classes. Look at one of Adroit's videos for an example of what good mobility looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfbe2uFWdM
Does anyone really think a self-buffed archer could have capped those flags after using an IG to dig it?

Joshcja - Sanctuary · February 2013

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archer is one of the best classes at killing lower geared people. At the highest levels of play against equal gear R999+12 JOSD they are kinda bad. Alot of it is because Spirit blackhole just isn't as good as purify spell or GoF except in a supporting fashion in TW.

At R999+12 josd, archer has worse 'mobility' than all the caster classes. Look at one of Adroit's videos for an example of what good mobility looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfbe2uFWdM
Does anyone really think a self-buffed archer could have capped those flags after using an IG to dig it?

Uh huh

Flags

LOLOLOLOLOL

No really compared to mystic or bm UPness archers are gods

and fully bufffed archers (faction buff box or just...be in squad) seem to be just as stupid as they always were

Iyania - Heavens Tear · February 2013

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uh huh

Flags

LOLOLOLOLOL

No really compared to mystic or bm UPness archers are gods

and fully bufffed archers (faction buff box or just...be in squad) seem to be just as stupid as they always were

If you think BMs are lacking you probably play against people with better gear than you. End game BMs are unkillable if they have the slightest idea how to play, and the blade tornado goes through defense levels and damage reductions, which is by the way pretty OP. Oh yea I haven't even mentioned the damage reduction and CC immunity while blade tornado is up too. Wow, even more OP. Wait what? It's not even purgeable? Well QQ, good thing the archer proc you think is so great isn't purge.

Mystics are pretty bad in the hands of the stupid. They aren't OP, but they are definitely not weak, especially not compared to archers. The problem with mystics and the community that plays them is most people don't know how to set up their skills. Mystics have so much potential, especially now with purify proc on their weapons, it's a joke to consider them disadvantaged to archers. The only way mystics are disadvantaged to archers is they do need to set up their skills, whereas archers can probably spam the same 3 buttons and get something done.

Your argument about "fully buffed archers" is ridiculous considering a fully buffed anything is going to be "stupid." It's pretty stupid to say oh buffed archers are OP when a fully buffed BM, barb, or psy is way more OP than any other fully buffed class.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archer is one of the best classes at killing lower geared people. At the highest levels of play against equal gear R999+12 JOSD they are kinda bad. Alot of it is because Spirit blackhole just isn't as good as purify spell or GoF except in a supporting fashion in TW.

At R999+12 josd, archer has worse 'mobility' than all the caster classes. Look at one of Adroit's videos for an example of what good mobility looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfbe2uFWdM
Does anyone really think a self-buffed archer could have capped those flags after using an IG to dig it?

+1

Longknife - Harshlands · February 2013

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes. I forgot evasion is the new JOSD and that everyone is sharding this because of how amazing it is defensively. Great argument there. I think you've definitely proved how the archer buff is better than a 30 defense level self buff, a buff that hurts other people when they hit you, a buff that silences people when they hit you, a buff that gives you more max hp, a buff that gives you more attack, a buff that gives you more phys or mag defense, a buff that heals you when you've been hit, a buff that gives you hp back upon dealing damage, a buff that makes you nearly impossible to debuff, a buff that reduces the number of crits you take, a buff that makes you shoot backwards when you take physical damage, a buff that resurrects you automatically when you die and a buff that absorbs physical damage to your mp instead of hp.

Good job people. Lets take what we can from this and shard evasion.

No you twit, positioning and anti-stun.

Yknow, positioning? The concept that 99% of the community doesn't understand and that usually seperates the good players from the bad players? That thing you (hopefully) utilize everytime you're taking too much heat in TW so you fall back so your neighboring DDs can cover you and let your charm tick? Yeah, archers are the best equipped for that, defense-wise, because archer is like the hardest class to hold down, save maybe for a sage sin.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Alot of it is because Spirit blackhole just isn't as good as purify spell or GoF except in a supporting fashion in TW.

You're the only physical DD of the three primary DD classes, the hardest to hold down, you have the highest ranged DPS and you arguably have the longest lifespan of the three, simply BECAUSE you're so hard to hold down.
Archer is nothing but a sin that's practical in the sense that sins suck *** at everything but 1v1 (which they're outrageously overpowered at) and farming, but archer has the range and defenses to utilize such a high DPS in practical, profitable situations like TW and NW. In that sense, archer is automatically one of the most vital classes and EASILY capable of taking care of itself simply because it's DPS is so high that any random crit, purge or what have you can tip the scales just enough for the DPS alone to seal the deal. In the same way even a horriawful sin can get a kill on a good player just because 5 APS damage output can be THAT broken, an archer pulls in kills for it's team quicker because all they need is a fairly common and even only slightly advantageous scenario to land the kill.
The issue is that if you take a team of 10 archers and put them up against 10 wizards, venos, clerics, mystics or Psychics, only the Psys are gonna have a chance in hell of walking away from that alive simply because archers have the most effective concentrated focus-fire in the game; Psys only have a chance because they can flat-out negate physical damage and they actually have physical resistance duration that can hold it's own vs. Archer's incredible anti-stun duration. Now have 10 wizzies or any of those others fight 10 barbs, BMs, Seekers, archers or sins and look at how much the wizard struggles. Look at how much venos and clerics would struggle. Archers are powerful because they have the largest strength-in-numbers factor, because no matter WHAT opponent their facing, they WILL have the DPS to kill it when focus-firing. "Any class will have the DPS to kill something with strength in numbers!" Yes, but archers do it BEST. Even though Psys can compete and sins arguably have better DPS output, the sin's form of DPS output is horrendously impractical and can only be done in small bursts every minute or so and even small differences between the ability of Psys and archers to focus-fire? Those REALLY get magnified in lengthy battles, such as guess what: TW and NW. While the wizzies and seekers are having their heavy hits get blocked by AD and it's taking TIME, the archer is killing just with sheer DPS and crit alone, not having to wait for an opportunity to BIDS or spark combo but rather just auto-attacking til the end of time, often in such a way that the opponent has little to no chance to react. This makes archers direly important for both Nation war and Territory war, and it means they both excel at holding a good KPD and at raking in tokens in Nation war.

1v1? Listen, I'm no archer, and Psys aren't the best example as 1v1, Psys have a slight upperhand on archer.

My point however is that just because your class isn't amazing at EVERYTHING doesn't mean it's not overpowered (in the sense that it's CLEARLY powerful enough already, not that it's neccesarily broken). To me, your class is overpowered if it excels at it's job to a ridiculous degree.

What's a sin's job? Win 1v1. Do they excel at that to a ridiculous degree? Absolutely. Should they shut the hell up about needing a boost? Better ****ing believe it.
What's an archer's job? Drop bodies quick as hell is mass PVP. Do they excel at that? Definitely. Do they need anymore help? No not really.

It becomes especially blatant of the bias here when you try to apply that same rule to, say, Barbs, Seekers or BMs. Barbs can pull catas and flags, as is their job, but do they EXCEL at it? Perhaps when compared to other classes, of course, but hell, just the other night I dropped a cata barb alone with steady 18-20k hits thanks to him being purged and the tower debuff ALONE. As one can assume, obviously seekers and BMs would go down even faster. But no, get in line barbs: the archers and sins are clearly more deserving of a boost than you are!

Does anyone really think a self-buffed archer could have capped those flags after using an IG to dig it?

Pro-tip: Using an IG to dig the flag is suicide.

>Has two anti-stuns
>multiple movement speed buffs
>Can't figure out how2cap

Ya ok.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · February 2013

Iyania - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you think BMs are lacking you probably play against people with better gear than you. End game BMs are unkillable if they have the slightest idea how to play, and the blade tornado goes through defense levels and damage reductions, which is by the way pretty OP. Oh yea I haven't even mentioned the damage reduction and CC immunity while blade tornado is up too. Wow, even more OP. Wait what? It's not even purgeable? Well QQ, good thing the archer proc you think is so great isn't purge.

Mystics are pretty bad in the hands of the stupid. They aren't OP, but they are definitely not weak, especially not compared to archers. The problem with mystics and the community that plays them is most people don't know how to set up their skills. Mystics have so much potential, especially now with purify proc on their weapons, it's a joke to consider them disadvantaged to archers. The only way mystics are disadvantaged to archers is they do need to set up their skills, whereas archers can probably spam the same 3 buttons and get something done.

Your argument about "fully buffed archers" is ridiculous considering a fully buffed anything is going to be "stupid." It's pretty stupid to say oh buffed archers are OP when a fully buffed BM, barb, or psy is way more OP than any other fully buffed class.

+1

Before I continue I think of 1v1 pvp 1st then mass pvp, and lets face it archers are still top tier in both. I only consider BM "OPish" as utility and support/survival in mass pvp and thats really nothing new (and lets face it they got nothing on barbs/psys in survival)

1v1 wise: My opinion on the recent changes and archers

Purge proc makes "full buff" fights pretty one sided once it goes off and purify is similar to SOS in my mind, with a lower proc rate at that and archers were one of the only classes able to reliable kill a psy 1v1. R999 seems to have scaled hp/def and damage similarly so I cant see too much of a change here.

Again I'm not going to say archers are the "OP" class of pwi however they are top tier.

Now for bm's 1v1

Please show a bm killing a skilled player with a purify weapon with both self or fully buffed in a 1v1. Def seems to be scaling equally to attack for once so i cant see the class that has to commit 2 sparks + stun or break the RNG with back to back zerk crits winning often

In mass pvp I will agree a endgame gear BM is top tier as utility and survival but I just consider 1v1 1st

Mystic just feels like an underpowered class to me in both areas. I mean really when I pvped actively a r9 mystic fight felt like a r8 archer/wiz fight.

To be honest I think all classes would need a pretty heavy rebalance in pvp (mass and 1v1) along with pve since g15+ gear pretty much shattered the original balance and the TB just came all over the remains. By would I mean the give a sh*t I had for the games balance died long ago along with any real class bias I had.

But again, if I were to pick 1 class to buff, archer would not be on the list and I love my archer.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · February 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

No you twit, positioning and anti-stun.

Yknow, positioning? The concept that 99% of the community doesn't understand and that usually seperates the good players from the bad players? That thing you (hopefully) utilize everytime you're taking too much heat in TW so you fall back so your neighboring DDs can cover you and let your charm tick? Yeah, archers are the best equipped for that, defense-wise, because archer is like the hardest class to hold down, save maybe for a sage sin.

You're the only physical DD of the three primary DD classes, the hardest to hold down, you have the highest ranged DPS and you arguably have the longest lifespan of the three, simply BECAUSE you're so hard to hold down.
Archer is nothing but a sin that's practical in the sense that sins suck *** at everything but 1v1 (which they're outrageously overpowered at) and farming, but archer has the range and defenses to utilize such a high DPS in practical, profitable situations like TW and NW. In that sense, archer is automatically one of the most vital classes and EASILY capable of taking care of itself simply because it's DPS is so high that any random crit, purge or what have you can tip the scales just enough for the DPS alone to seal the deal. In the same way even a horriawful sin can get a kill on a good player just because 5 APS damage output can be THAT broken, an archer pulls in kills for it's team quicker because all they need is a fairly common and even only slightly advantageous scenario to land the kill.
The issue is that if you take a team of 10 archers and put them up against 10 wizards, venos, clerics, mystics or Psychics, only the Psys are gonna have a chance in hell of walking away from that alive simply because archers have the most effective concentrated focus-fire in the game; Psys only have a chance because they can flat-out negate physical damage and they actually have physical resistance duration that can hold it's own vs. Archer's incredible anti-stun duration. Now have 10 wizzies or any of those others fight 10 barbs, BMs, Seekers, archers or sins and look at how much the wizard struggles. Look at how much venos and clerics would struggle. Archers are powerful because they have the largest strength-in-numbers factor, because no matter WHAT opponent their facing, they WILL have the DPS to kill it when focus-firing. "Any class will have the DPS to kill something with strength in numbers!" Yes, but archers do it BEST. Even though Psys can compete and sins arguably have better DPS output, the sin's form of DPS output is horrendously impractical and can only be done in small bursts every minute or so and even small differences between the ability of Psys and archers to focus-fire? Those REALLY get magnified in lengthy battles, such as guess what: TW and NW. While the wizzies and seekers are having their heavy hits get blocked by AD and it's taking TIME, the archer is killing just with sheer DPS and crit alone, not having to wait for an opportunity to BIDS or spark combo but rather just auto-attacking til the end of time, often in such a way that the opponent has little to no chance to react. This makes archers direly important for both Nation war and Territory war, and it means they both excel at holding a good KPD and at raking in tokens in Nation war.

1v1? Listen, I'm no archer, and Psys aren't the best example as 1v1, Psys have a slight upperhand on archer.

My point however is that just because your class isn't amazing at EVERYTHING doesn't mean it's not overpowered (in the sense that it's CLEARLY powerful enough already, not that it's neccesarily broken). To me, your class is overpowered if it excels at it's job to a ridiculous degree.

What's a sin's job? Win 1v1. Do they excel at that to a ridiculous degree? Absolutely. Should they shut the hell up about needing a boost? Better ****ing believe it.
What's an archer's job? Drop bodies quick as hell is mass PVP. Do they excel at that? Definitely. Do they need anymore help? No not really.

It becomes especially blatant of the bias here when you try to apply that same rule to, say, Barbs, Seekers or BMs. Barbs can pull catas and flags, as is their job, but do they EXCEL at it? Perhaps when compared to other classes, of course, but hell, just the other night I dropped a cata barb alone with steady 18-20k hits thanks to him being purged and the tower debuff ALONE. As one can assume, obviously seekers and BMs would go down even faster. But no, get in line barbs: the archers and sins are clearly more deserving of a boost than you are!

Pro-tip: Using an IG to dig the flag is suicide.

>Has two anti-stuns
>multiple movement speed buffs
>Can't figure out how2cap

Ya ok.

...have my babies

Longknife - Harshlands · February 2013

On the topic of classes doing their job:

Blademasters: They're supposed to run in, stun, amp etc so the DDs have clear shots at the enemy for kills. Do BMs excel at this? Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who plays Wizard or Psychic can tell you that if you see a BM running at you, what do you do? You kite the **** back. It's sad and pathetic, but simply falling back is the bane of the BM's existence. Why? Because he's likely being pelted at the ENTIRE time he's running at you, so the longer he's running, the more ****ed he is. It also means he's running deeper into enemy territory, meaning he's less likely to receive support from his team in the form of covering fire, simply because his team is now risking their neck to a degree if THEY move forward aswell.
Likewise, you wanna talk about how purify weapon has changed the game? Guess which class is stun reliant. Yeah.
The result is BM has an incredibly painful job of running in and being shot at the entire time, either being forced to retreat due to enemies kiting TOO much, being forced to BASICALLY sacrifice himself by ending up in a practically suicidal scenario, or huzzah his plan goes accordingly. Pretty low odds of success, given that it's his job. And hell, now even if he DOES stun and amp, purify weapon may cancel that out on 5 of the 10 classes. I would be tempted to say that BMs actually deserve ANOTHER anti-stun skill entirely, though obviously that'd make BMs practically unstoppable with the flag, and BMs job can be made a lot easier simply by having a cleric cover the BM, and part of the skill factor is that the BM himself can recognize an opportunity to stun and amp and doesn't pick the suicidal ones. Nevertheless, while BMs are arguably one of the most important classes for TW, live or die, they themselves aren't too threatening. They do do their job adequately, but it sure seems like a **** job.

Wizzies: Their job is to DD and oneshot people. Do they do it? Absolutely. Need improvement? Not really.

Barbs: Obviously, they pull cata and the flag. Beyond that? Barbs basically can only stack resistances to mitigate incoming damage. Beyond that, they have to rely on their team to not allow them to die. In that sense Barb is more or less a chess piece that has limited control over their fate. Yes, they have plenty of resistance skills, but irregardless, enough focus fire WILL kill them, as it should though. Still, I imagine it's frustrating for barbs to have to rely on their team for much of their work. They have turtle, they have solid shield, they have IG, they have AD, they have a skill to absorb magical damage and chi, they have brief anti-stun, they have tree of protection, and while that may sound like a lot, you better believe they're gonna be using all of it in less than a minute flat.
Again though, they're adequate at their job. Sure it's painful, but hey they do it.

Veno: Venos primary job is purge. Do they do it well? Absolutely, they have plenty of skills to get in, do their job, and get out. Are their pets lulzy at this point though? Yep. Their pets could use a boost for sure.

Archer: See above rant in my other post.

Cleric: Cleric's job is to heal. Do they do it? Yep. Are heals effective to the point where you're basically forced to go after a cleric if a target has a cleric on them? Absolutely.
Would I give clerics more defenses or resistances? Probably not, both because I think much of clerics job can be done with proper positioning, and because tbh, cleric is the class that HAS to be in some ways vulnerable. This is the class that has to die before anything else can happen, so if they screwed up and made clerics OP? Yeah, the game would suck. Purify weapon on clerics alone is a giant obstacle now.

Assassin: AHAHAHAHAHAHA no. Doesn't even deserve a review.

Psy: Job? DD, primarily AOEing and DPS. Does it well? Yep. Need anymore help? Nope. Kk good.

Seeker: HAY DAWG, I'VE GOT LIKE THE BEST DEFENSES AND ATTACK RATINGS IN THE GAME. NO OTHER CLASS HAS THE COMBINED RAW DEFENSE AND ATTACK POWER THAT I HAVE!!

That's great, but you can't ****ing resist worth a damn, so you get control-skilled out the *** and die immediately. It also doesn't help that one of the primary DDs, Psys, eats this class up for breakfast, sort of invalidating Seeker as a potential primary DD in TWs. If you try to make use of Seeker, your gut reaction is to toss them in with the wizzies, Psys and archers simply because Seekers do nothing but DD. That's great and all, but while Psys, Wizzies and Archers aren't PARTICULARLY strong or weak against one another (in some ways they can be, but it's not SO apparent that one is ripping the other one a new a-hole; it's slight advantages so that simple things like positioning and proper teamwork completely off-set this), yes, Psychics absolutely curbstomp Seekers. So the result is you have Psychics saying "o yummy, another Seeker," they stun it, and then they call over Best Friend Wizard to get in on this sweet seeker-munching action. Bam, Seeker is dead. Yeah, they WOULD be useful, if there wasn't this class with control skills out the *** (with Seekers severely lacking resistances) with enough sheer attack power to handle all of Seeker's sheer defenses. (Adrenal Numbness? Meet Black Voodoo)

This class needs help imo. Maybe that's just me because my class is particularly strong vs. Seeker, but I cannot for the life of me name a Seeker on my server that's known for being particularly good, threatening or useful in TW or Nation War. I'm sure some classes struggle with seekers, but as far as Nation war and TW go, Seekers drop the ball. I'm afraid I don't really know what I'd do about it though, given that yes, Seekers DO have amazing raw stats, and if they were to get a 15 second anti-stun or the like, then they'd jump straight from underpowered to broken as hell. But it's not my job to dream up exceptionally balanced fixes like this, that's PWIs. And they should probably get on that.

Mystic: Versatile class that can heal support while DDing. Seems legit. While they don't really have any one particular job, they do function well as this jack-of-all-trades that does decently in several areas, being able to briefly blend in with the clerics or the DDs as they wish. A Mystic has several ways to validate their existence and be important and helpful to their team, so I see no reason for improvements.

geestring · February 2013

archers a far from needing an upgrade. sins on the other hand every QQs about them being op cause thier damage and aps so why not just give them something to benefit non aps sins

Breannak - Raging Tide · February 2013

Wizards needs a upgrade, like more pdef, and better range.

anascarlet · February 2013

Archers completely fear clerics in pvp. i say archers should get a boost and clerics should remain the same. hmmm.... and to go a step further, i think all classes fear clerics in pvp, so yes, maybe clerics should even be nerfed.

Hunterste - Heavens Tear · February 2013

where to start ? hmm.ok played barb over 4 years and i think when sins and stuff came ingame 90-98 % of barbs made a sin n stopped playing barb.i didnt and kept playing my barb.as a barb at lvl 100 + like i was at the time. i became near to not needed or wanted on hunts as we couldnt keep n hold agro any longer and sins and the other new classes could hit like freight trains.so we lost our role ingame.gotta give the GMs bit of credit as the 3rd big big update slightly gave us a small but important role ingame.sadly most of the barbs from the old days either quit game or stayed on the new classes and now the game is barb shy.and nowadays with fast power lvling and the way more powerfull choices most people dont pick playing a barb and if they do they lucky to go higher level than 60-90.its the hardest class to be good at in my opinion.( not complaing about that part i love being 1 of a few barbs that are good at their job.improvement wise i would maybe suggest something to improve the rate of missing,as when killing mobs and boss it goes something like hit miss miss miss miss hit hit miss miss miss hit miss.and can be beyond annoying lol.something else is how long it takes to kill mobs solo.im wearing lvl 99 kit and weapon,im not 1 of those money bag gamers with the awesome gear but still would think would o lot more damage to mobs.i think skills could be tweaked too.in a nutshell the difference between say the new classes to the old,theres way too much difference cause the old classes wernt upgraded to keep up with the game.i dont think barbs should be changed in any big way they awesome in my book but tweaked defo.

Hunterste - Heavens Tear · February 2013

the other origonal classes like veno cleric ect also need upgrade

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · February 2013

Sooo....what are these walls of text about? Where did you guys see that we really want more than just not to constantly overwrite ourselves all the time and MAYBE a buff that's half decent?

I think the problem lies in the fact that everyone who is arguing against improving archer buffs is going off of endgame archer vs tt99 AA/LA in mass PvP situations? Need to look at classes and how they compare to others of their own gear tier and also keep in mind that many useful new buffs and statuses that other classes now have are unpurgeable.

Mrvate - Heavens Tear · February 2013

I think less that any particular class needs a buff, and more that the purify proc on caster weapons needs to be removed or heavily nerfed.

Outside of that I think the classes are fairly balanced, which can mostly be fixed with small tweaks.

Sylvae - Sanctuary · February 2013

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sooo....what are these walls of text about? Where did you guys see that we really want more than just not to constantly overwrite ourselves all the time and MAYBE a buff that's half decent?

I think the problem lies in the fact that everyone who is arguing against improving archer buffs is going off of archer vs tt99 AA/LA in mass PvP situations? Need to look at classes and how they compare to others of their own tier and also keep in mind that many useful new buffs and statuses that other classes now have are unpurgeable.

So buff endgame archers and nerf earlier archers to balance them out?

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · February 2013

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

So buff endgame archers and nerf earlier archers to balance them out?

I don't think you understood my point, maybe i should go back and edit to give some more clarity

Sylvae - Sanctuary · February 2013

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't think you understood my point, maybe i should go back and edit to give some more clarity

Even Ast has said that though. Most archers agree that archers are not good 1v1 against equal geared end game opponents. And they've also said archers mow through lower geared people quite easily. So by buffing their 1v1 at end game to balance that, you'd create an imbalance for the mass pvp spectrum; again, this is by archer's own inadvertant omission.

So to actually keep balance, they would have to nerf archers ability to whoop up on lower tiers to actually keep things balanced between classes. Can't have one class be equal to and better than and consider it in any way balanced.

Did the archers realize they were saying that? Prolly not. They were just trying to make a case for being buffed. It's just in doing so, they actually pointed out why archers aren't equal end game 1 v 1: because their role is suited to a different avenue. Getting both that role and the 1v1 would be pretty messed up, balance-wise anyways.

Lyritha - Heavens Tear · February 2013

There is no way the game can be balanced with simple skill updates. Everyone should know this company by now... changes always breaks something in PWI! Now if they break everything equally as much we can have rock paper scissor fest and the first person to make action wins.... which is basically what it will boil down to given all the attack level and neglect on defense end....

Which Class Needs An Upgrade?

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