Which Class Needs An Upgrade?

Mingkeey - Lost City

Mystics need a ugrade because not many people play them.Skills that would make this class better would.

Cragglord. Remove the stupid 20 sec time limit that makes the pet complete useless.

Falling Petals.Let the buff stay on for 4mins and not disappear after getting hit once.

Verdant shell. Tidal should last more then 15 secs and should be at least 80% not 20%

Healing plants are fail.Replace them with a plant that aoe stuns for 6 secs.

Also we dont need any more damn healing skills!!!!!

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

>PERMANENT CRAGGLORD

http://smilepanic.com/wp-content/uploads/do_not_want8.jpg

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

I don't use cragg cause he don't worth the 2 sparks, BUT if he was permanent, maybe I'll use more.

VKnightV - Lost City

Mingkeey - Lost City wrote: »

Mystics need a ugrade because not many people play them.Skills that would make this class better would.

Cragglord. Remove the stupid 20 sec time limit that makes the pet complete useless.

Falling Petals.Let the buff stay on for 4mins and not disappear after getting hit once.

Verdant shell. Tidal should last more then 15 secs and should be at least 80% not 20%

Healing plants are fail.Replace them with a plant that aoe stuns for 6 secs.

Also we dont need any more damn healing skills!!!!!

i actually dont agree with you i mean why woudl you want ahuge player base with mistic

you know they dont suck so i am pussled why u woudl want lotf more mistic liek you.

see the less class is played the bigger chances ppl dont know how to counter your class and the more fun you will have.

if you dont suck u will always have ppl teaming with you.

Sjuggs - Lost City

The BMs are the weakest... Lol no one uses them anymore at endgame...

Badkidimdone - Archosaur

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Not every class is made to be a pure DD, veno are not made for that, they are support and actually veno claim themselves be one of the only caster that can killl end game people cause of purge, amp and debuff. My veno is vit and when my debuff work and do 0 m.def I can 2 shot a cata barb, so yea...

Veno are not stuck in one form, they need to learn to play with switching form when needed beside, QQ they cannot kill people in fox form, just debuff, purge and amp and switch human form...

Which skill do they have that can reduce magic def to 0? I've never seen it, though my venos only 77.

The amp only makes their damage similar to the other casters. I'm not complaining about having to use fox form, I was proving a point saying that venos don't DD in fox form. Venos aren't pure DD's yeah, but I find their DD pretty low. Killing other arcanes with similar gear can be pretty hard for them. Most of this is from a pvp 1v1 perspective though

Eoria - Harshlands

Badkidimdone - Archosaur wrote: »

Which skill do they have that can reduce magic def to 0? I've never seen it, though my venos only 77.

Two of the veno 79 skills.

taringa181

Sweetiebot analyze this thread b:laugh

opkossy

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Two of the veno 79 skills.

And that combined with the fact that veno pets can debuff and that demons get a wood elemental debuff for free from a basic skill is... yeah.

They may not be a primary DD, per se, but with the debuffs and purge they can be a tough opponent in the right hands.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

taringa181 wrote: »

Sweetiebot analyze this thread

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VKnightV - Lost City

NigeIus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1- there was also aps barbs

2-i am up wiht u to this. real bms never liked to be aps, couse we learned to play as a dph. i dont know if u ever did a rebirth alpha or betha, but real bms learned all this there. or doing zhen in ns or pirates or spiders.

3-if u as a barb miss then u should get amber gems in ur weapon and not garnet. thats what a pure str barb should do. since blood bath increase ur acc, in a % of ur base acc.

4-about others classes comming up is a long discussion we could have, i can tell u this, while a bm/sin/aps barb, where farming their interval tome, tt99 for aps bonuses, lunar cape, fists/claws, nirvana legs, other classes were just qqing. ofc it was unfair a 1vs1 agianst an aps bm/sin/barb if u were a mage, but thats couse those mages had what?50m in armors?while bm/sin/barb had around only 100 m in the scroll of tome?(when sot costed 100m, idk if u remember)
dude, most of the ppl that said that bms/sins were too op was couse they were undergeared, a good geared mage/archer in those time was godlike in pk/tw. so ur point is wrong. all ur post is wrong. u should delete it couse what u said has no sense at all.

go and build ur barb again in pw calculator and then u should realize how u can get 7k accuarecy as a pure str barb wiht minimal dex. then we could talk again. have a nice day.

ps: i am joking, i am not that pedantic, just tried to be fun :P hope u understand it b:laugh

i alredy said it once and i want u to put a value of coin ur so grand aps did in pve and i do same on a str non aps and see who get the biggest benefit and hax.

so again do not come with the coin cos i can invest in that cheap coin u needed to make this grand aps and the aps buidl will still benefit 100% more

cos its not balanced at all

so do not come with money cos its wortless.

it never was about money investment to begin with it was more about feeling like god

cece9

I don't say this because the class I am but because I do feel that this needs to happen. I will admit to being biased because I am a terrible caster, I don't play one, I have never played one well, let alone in pvp, and I am a melee dd at heart.

In my opinion BMs are terribly limited but so are any class that is played as a true support class.
I know Arch server is low in population and relevance compared to some of the older servers. Before NW update we saw maybe 5 r9 bms in PVP instances. Of those 5 i would wager to guess that all 5 were pure axe builds, thus mostly strength builds. With that said that put most bms in aps gear, for nirvana farming, and nothing said of anything better for mass pvp like tw and nw when it came out. Arguably sins wore the same gear, and some archers as well, but sins with the r9 weapon were 1000% more common than bms with weapon only..the same can be said with archers.

Since this past christmas sale and the release of NW you see a lot more bms in r9 or partial r9, recasted or not i would say that there has been more r9 bms born since nw than ever existed on arch server ten fold.

Because of the lack of "OP geared bms" bms were given a support role, meant to **** off and annoy people in pvp instances not really expected to kill but rather to give opportunity for others to kill or to save people from attackers. I'm not necessarily talking straight up pk but rather places like tw and nw mind you.

When NW and more r9 bms came about the perspective of most people for bms has not changed bms are a support class that can tank a lot of damage (sometimes) and can back up tank. Some bms can be hard to kill if they actually mind refining their gear and sharding it decently.

What makes bms so underpowered in my opinion is the lack of ability to kill virtually anything. Any range class sees any class they have a range advantage over the shoot at it. I find my full g16+7 16k hp bm hit from all sides. I can take the damage for a while but who do i go after thats hitting me? the archer, no they just leap and kite and anti stun. The seeker, with 30 defense levels and zerking magic attacks as well as a nasty magic aoe i cant stand close to while its in effect? The psy who is built to do massive damage with fast cool down stuns and seals. The veno who is going to purge me if i get close. Add a purify proc to the mages who then follow the archers suit and kite... thats a screwed bm. I find myself in this pickle so many times. Being hit from everyone thats range from all directions. My defense, with marrows and apoth and genies only gets me so far with any of these classes hitting. Who do bms kill? Bms kill anyone who stays in range of them. Who kills bms? everyone that can do range damage. NW and Tw even are a world of kiting and the people kiting screws over bms and barbs. The last skill upgrade gave bms 3 distinct advantages. Blade Hurl ~ range skills that leaves most classes without skills leaving them unable to antistun and kite a bms stuns. Blade Tornado~ is OP as hell but has a long cool down and is now avoidable by things like Psy will and expel. Smack~ Smack became one of the hardest hitting skills a bm uses regularly again it negates some kiting techniques, one shots lower geared people, and seals. The Morai skills a bm gained during the morai update are good but apart from reel in, are less than they should have been.

In regards to tw specifically. BMs are there to buff, stun and hf. I run around in tw and it seems anyone i come near is either immediately kiting me back or purify procs and negates the whole process. I may decently geared for a non r9 bm but r9 archers hit me with physical or magical attacks for 7-15k . making me a 4 shot at best without the use of apoth. Psys and wizzies can hit me for upwards of 25k with magic marrow (18k mdef) I'm well geared, decently refined, working on full shards. I don't spend a dime in this game and i know i will always be at a disadvantage to r9 people but it would be nice to have some way to be useful in mass pvp for something other than amp or bell or roar. I'd like to be able to go up to a seeker or an archer and do more than ~1000 damage. Bms have truely fallen in to a support only class. Sure we can tank in pvp but even with 25k hp or 30k hp a bm will never be a barb or a seeker. They're after thoughts. The advantage of r9 is simply zerk and defense levels, but defense levels onlyl get you so far before your zerk is irrelevant.

Venos need an update for they have fallen to a support spot also but in tw you'll always hear get the veno, kill the veno, and ofc DAMNIT I GOT PURGED. who can recall kill the bm get the bm.

Maybe my perspective is warped because of my lack of Pk experience or the lack of population on arch server. but my perspective is what it is and is based on my 3 years of non power leveling and learning my bm the hard way. I love tw and i love my bm but it would be nice for a class to actually factor into tw and nw more than it does.

My order of classes that need an updated (neediest to least)

1) BMs
2) Venos
3) Barbs
4) Mystics
5) Clerics
6) Wizards
7) Seekers
8/9) Archers
8/9) Psys
10) Sins*

*Sin's are at the bottom of my need to be redone list simply because i lacked any opinion on where to put them. There are way too many different types of sins and ways they are played. Aps sins are out dated like aps bms (though aps bms lack zerk) the advantages and differences in play styles between sage and demon, skill spam and aps are too big of range to be judged accurately.

MagicEmpress - Lost City

1) BMs
2) Venos
3) Barbs
4) Mystics
5) Clerics
6) Wizards
7) Seekers
8/9) Archers
8/9) Psys
10) Sins*

Yep, pretty much agree.
BMs are great for support (stun free run skill/ironguard/then run up and dragon a group and the DDs kill everything) but fighting all alone in NW against many ranged players is a disadvantage.
Venos mostly support too with there debuff.
Untamed need the biggest upgrade and venos will get one soon I hear.
Rank 9 barbs are tough enough though PvP. They just need their PvE agro hold skills improved to keep up with the apsers.

Haila - Sanctuary

Barbs need more ranged skills b:cute

MagicEmpress - Lost City

Good lord how can archer be in 2nd place?
Rank 9 archers just slaughter in NW.
They might be the most feared class.

MagicEmpress - Lost City

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbs need more ranged skills b:cute

You kittys are fast.
I get chased all over the map by some. b:thanks

Haila - Sanctuary

MagicEmpress - Lost City wrote: »

You kittys are fast.
I get chased all over the map by some. b:thanks

we getting stunned, slowed, sealed, sleeped, silenced too much b:sad

edit: teleport skill would be nice also

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol. Seekers are the most broken class in the game.

Archers have the highest p attack yet seekers barbs sins and bms can hit harder with a zerk than we can with a purge.

Compared to psychics and sins and seekers, archers require so much more chi to defend themselves or cast cc skills.

Archers are defensively one of the worst classes even if we have leaps lol. Every class gets a useful self buff some get more than one. Archers do not.

Heya Bhavvy,

I understand your frustrations. Up until I heard about barb update, I was hoping for something for those of us barbs without r9. On to your point, perhaps fixing the buffs to give a little more evasion (Can't say by how much, not familiar with archer skills) and to stop the over ride would be in order. Also, maybe giving a slight chi reduction to cast would be nice. Something to keep in mind however is that Archers aren't supposed to be front-line attackers, especially if you define that as "tanking". b:chuckle

I know archers irritate me in NW, so they can't be too bad. b:laugh

nixop

MagicEmpress - Lost City wrote: »

Good lord how can archer be in 2nd place?
Rank 9 archers just slaughter in NW.
They might be the most feared class.

end game archers sucks compared to casters with purify skill on their weapons

equaly geared archer(end game) vs wizzy or psy dont stand a chance

not to even say against seekers and barbs...(but thats how its susposed to be i guess)


i dont think any classes need upgrades but there are some things that has to be nerfed for sure

Kniraven - Lost City

nixop wrote: »

end game archers sucks compared to casters with purify skill on their weapons

equaly geared archer(end game) vs wizzy or psy dont stand a chance

not to even say against seekers and barbs...(but thats how its susposed to be i guess)


i dont think any classes need upgrades but there are some things that has to be nerfed for sure

I'm sorry but this is bull.
Archers have the absolute best physical dph in the entire game and are the physical damage class least likely to be successfully kited.

Archers have the largest advantage in every way against the purify proc, and once purged a caster of any gear dies in 3 to 5 auto attacks from an equal geared archer (including charm tick).

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is bull.
Archers have the absolute best physical dph in the entire game and are the physical damage class least likely to be successfully kited.

Archers have the largest advantage in every way against the purify proc, and once purged a caster of any gear dies in 3 to 5 auto attacks from an equal geared archer (including charm tick).

I can absolutely testify personally, as a barb, that they are extremely unlikely to be kited from. Now if I get too close to one, I don't even bother trying. I go down fighting.

I do not however, appreciate the flaming and tension in this thread. Not by all, but by some. This isn't suppose to be about being biased, and voting for your own class, but rather helping PWI improve the game. At this rate, the Mods will just close this thread and move it to The Lower Depths. Let's not make that happen, K?

Kniraven - Lost City

nixop wrote: »

mostly likely you just bad bm that struggle killing archers

Archers are easy 1 vs 1 to kill because i can spam control skills.
In group pvp they're very overpowered. They have ranged debuffs superior to my melee debuffs and a ranged purge on top of the highest patk in game and magic attacks.

Tbh they've become an opportunist class, hiding in stealth waiting for someone to be locked down before coming out to dragon and pew pew.

All of that is completely irrelevant though,
Every point I made is valid and irrefutable. This is why you've resorted to adhominem attacks on me personally instead of making a legitimate argument.
Go play My Little Pony Online Adventure or something.

nixop

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Archers are easy 1 vs 1 to kill because i can spam control skills.
In group pvp they're very overpowered. They have ranged debuffs superior to my melee debuffs and a ranged purge on top of the highest patk in game and magic attacks.

Tbh they've become an opportunist class, hiding in stealth waiting for someone to be locked down before coming out to dragon and pew pew.

All of that is completely irrelevant though,
Every point I made is valid and irrefutable. This is why you've resorted to adhominem attacks on me personally instead of making a legitimate argument.
Go play My Little Pony Online Adventure or something.

omg pls dont be so mean....pls just not about my little pony b:cry


when it comes to end game its mostly about crit/zerks for physical dmg classes and that what archers dont have

also they are most squishy end game class since they are useing light armor....

you are talking so much about purge like its 100% (and you forget bms can purge that way too then)

if you are gonna relay on 10-15% purge then its time for you to leave this game


EDIT:

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Normal proc is indeed around 5% and Blackhole is only slightly higher around 6%.

All attacks can trigger purge, when doing AOEs the purge can happen on any target independently of other targets.
...

famous 6% chance you care so much about

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Archers are easy 1 vs 1 to kill because i can spam control skills.
In group pvp they're very overpowered. They have ranged debuffs superior to my melee debuffs and a ranged purge on top of the highest patk in game and magic attacks.

Tbh they've become an opportunist class, hiding in stealth waiting for someone to be locked down before coming out to dragon and pew pew.

All of that is completely irrelevant though,
Every point I made is valid and irrefutable. This is why you've resorted to adhominem attacks on me personally instead of making a legitimate argument.
Go play My Little Pony Online Adventure or something.

Yes, Archers can be OP. However, some of the points that I'm seeing do seem valid. A buff that gets over ridden does seem pretty useless, and this seems feasible to fix.

I think what everyone forgets is that every class has a purpose; a hidden potential. In order to unlock that potential, you need to work in a squad, to support the other classes strengths and weakness. No one class should be considered OP or fail, that defeats the purpose of the game. So yes, some classes might be independently "handicapped", but in the end, that SHOULD be viewed as irrelevant.

Kniraven - Lost City

nixop wrote: »

omg pls dont be so mean....pls just not about my little pony b:cry


when it comes to end game its mostly about crit/zerks for physical dmg classes and that what archers dont have

also they are most squishy end game class since they are useing light armor....

you are talking so much about purge like its 100% (and you forget bms can purge that way too then)

if you are gonna relay on 10-15% purge then its time for you to leave this game

Purify has a % chance to activate when hit.
Archers do the most physical damage per hit of any class.

Purify purifies, antistuns, and gives a speed buff.
Archers have the farthest range in the game, makung the ability of an opponent to run affect them less than any other class.

Archers have the second highest crit rate in the game, assassins being first because of their skill buff. They crit more often than not.

Archers are not the squishiest class in game. That title goes to sins which have lower stats. But even assuming archers were, it wouldn't change anything I'd already said.

10-15% purge means you most likely purge them within 10 auto attacks.

Once any caster is purged, an equal geared archer kills them in 3 to 5 shots.

You keep changing the subject to BMs, so I'll answer your question despite it being obvious to anyone who actually plays the game. Unlike an archer, a BM must keep an enemy within melee range to spam attack with a purge weapon. Furthermore, a BM outputs completely insignificant damage while doing so.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Purify has a % chance to activate when hit.
Archers do the most physical damage per hit of any class.

Purify purifies, antistuns, and gives a speed buff.
Archers have the farthest range in the game, makung the ability of an opponent to run affect them less than any other class.

Archers have the second highest crit rate in the game, assassins being first because of their skill buff. They crit more often than not.

Archers are not the squishiest class in game. That title goes to sins which have lower stats. But even assuming archers were, it wouldn't change anything I'd already said.

10-15% purge means you most likely purge them within 10 auto attacks.

Once any caster is purged, an equal geared archer kills them in 3 to 5 shots.

You keep changing the subject to BMs, so I'll answer your question despite it being obvious to anyone who actually plays the game. Unlike an archer, a BM must keep an enemy within melee range to spam attack with a purge weapon. Furthermore, a BM outputs completely insignificant damage while doing so.

I have some problems with your points:

While I agree that, of all classes, archers have the best shot at catching a running Purify user, that would mean they have to purge the anti-stun/speed off first (which cannot happen with CC skills, because that quote is wrong, any skill that applies a negative status does not purge) and then lock them down. Once that happens, they need to hope their following attacks do not also trigger the proc. Also, assuming the maximum range possible, 40m (galvanic + sage mastery), you'd need to hope you get that purge in quick or else the caster will be out of your range fairly quickly and you'll need to follow just like everyone else.

Archers cannot really "spam" stun (and certainly not their only other CC skill), but the cooldown is low enough that I'll let that comment slide.

Archers have garbage buffs compared to sins, so I'd gather that either archers are as squishy as sins (given they use the same armour) or sins are slightly superior in terms of survivability.

Purge is not 10-15%.

The fact is, archers are over-powered against opponents with a lower gear standard. That is irrefutable. However, with equal gear, archers are garbage. Ask any endgame archer on these forums if they can 3-5 hit a full jaded +12 r999 wiz.

Dylena - Raging Tide

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have some problems with your points:

While I agree that, of all classes, archers have the best shot at catching a running Purify user, that would mean they have to purge the anti-stun/speed off first (which cannot happen with CC skills, because that quote is wrong, any skill that applies a negative status does not purge) and then lock them down. Once that happens, they need to hope their following attacks do not also trigger the proc. Also, assuming the maximum range possible, 40m (galvanic + sage mastery), you'd need to hope you get that purge in quick or else the caster will be out of your range fairly quickly and you'll need to follow just like everyone else.

Archers cannot really "spam" stun (and certainly not their only other CC skill), but the cooldown is low enough that I'll let that comment slide.

Archers have garbage buffs compared to sins, so I'd gather that either archers are as squishy as sins (given they use the same armour) or sins are slightly superior in terms of survivability.

Purge is not 10-15%.

The fact is, archers are over-powered against opponents with a lower gear standard. That is irrefutable. However, with equal gear, archers are garbage. Ask any endgame archer on these forums if they can 3-5 hit a full jaded +12 r999 wiz.

Approved by the archer community.

chunleilu

BMs are pretty balanced unfortunately the classes around them are just broken. With this new purify proc BM's lost ability to keep someone stun locked. As a support class BMs are very balanced rather than upgrading them and making them broken would be better to fix other broken classes but not going to happen,

_Mr_Tanky_ - Sanctuary

In my opinion barbarians need an upgrade. They aren't excessively played in comparison to other classes, and I can see them being played more with what I have to suggest.

In my perspective, the look and feel of the skills are sort of in effect of what will hinge people towards different classes. I started a barbarian because I liked the thought of having a melee class that was good at tanking, but others don't look behind the skills (Especially the sprites and their general looks). If you introduced a re-vamp of most skills of the barbarian class, or even others then they would be widely played more. Take for example, the barbarian buffs and compare them with the Earthguard/Tideborn buffs, and you'll definitely see the difference; Skill sprites are better on newer classes, fact. Also, I think that evening-out needs to occur; Archers are invincible in Nations Wars, and there has been a huge spring in how many archers are around. Recently, my friend created an archer and power-leveled it to 85, and got it full tt80 gold gear, and he now gets around 80 tokens per Nation War in-comparison to his Assassin's 30/50. This could possibly pose as an expansion, or something along these lines.

Thank you!

chunleilu

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have some problems with your points:

While I agree that, of all classes, archers have the best shot at catching a running Purify user, that would mean they have to purge the anti-stun/speed off first (which cannot happen with CC skills, because that quote is wrong, any skill that applies a negative status does not purge) and then lock them down. Once that happens, they need to hope their following attacks do not also trigger the proc. Also, assuming the maximum range possible, 40m (galvanic + sage mastery), you'd need to hope you get that purge in quick or else the caster will be out of your range fairly quickly and you'll need to follow just like everyone else.

Archers cannot really "spam" stun (and certainly not their only other CC skill), but the cooldown is low enough that I'll let that comment slide.

Archers have garbage buffs compared to sins, so I'd gather that either archers are as squishy as sins (given they use the same armour) or sins are slightly superior in terms of survivability.

Purge is not 10-15%.

The fact is, archers are over-powered against opponents with a lower gear standard. That is irrefutable. However, with equal gear, archers are garbage. Ask any endgame archer on these forums if they can 3-5 hit a full jaded +12 r999 wiz.

If you remove gears and other classes then Archer as a whole are balanced, Squishy but with High DD and good kiting ability. Unfortunately, if they actually upgrade Archers seeing PWI's track record they would end up making Archers broken. Then people would QQ about Archers being super OP.

There is a very THIN line between balance and unbalance now with the amount of Damage this game has nowadays. It is more about damage than skills unfortunately.