Assassins what pisses you guys off or just annoys you when in a squad?

I agree with Venus on the delta topic. Aoe isn't a sins specialty, even if you can make up for a lot. To take a 2nd character of a specific class for some instance, they need to perfectly fit that instance. Nobody would take a 2nd barb under some "arma"-argument, or a 2nd cleric. The sins use is bp and subsea mainly. If the said sin also has some good aoe power, even better. Delta really doesn't need 1 target pokers. But when there is 1, there is not much use for a 2nd. I find this rather annoying coming from Saku, who's really selective in his wc's (I got rejected several times on my alts since he doesn't need an *insert random class* for *insert random instance*). Cause that is what we're talking about : WC. For a friend, who's capacities you know in advance, you are more likely to make an exception from the perfect squad. A random wizard/archer/seeker or even bm is more likely to pump out aoe damage then a random sin, and a wizard/archer/seeker or even bm will pump out more aoe damage then a sin with similar gear. The whole "I get aggro for 20 sec" thing just makes me lol. You just never had a wizard start off with bids/ms or a seeker that puts the gemini-debuff on before vortex.

For hating barbs for using fr, it is really situational. There is only a few debuff/amp bosses where it actually hurts the squad. With the last update, 75% of the sins seem to be unable to tank. Complaining for barbs to fleshream in the case of bh is just sad imo. It won't hurt the squad on any of those bosses.

When you go into vana squad which is clericless and 5 aps ppl only, with the common sin, barrrier thorn +10, rest is +2 without shards or flawless leaving them at barely 5k hp. and BM got 6k hp.

and they think that it will be a fast squad b:surrender

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I wonder have you ever read the devour description properly.

Devour _increases_ barb's own aggro after barb's aggro has been engaged. Thus, if you as barb for example spark, get chi from pot/bestial, ream, alacrity, ream again and then spam devour, the aggro of boss is towards barb because devour is a threatening skill.
Also, devour grows all squad members' attack. Yours, barb's, others.
As said before, use chill and no spark if you don't want to get aggro, or wait barb to engage the aggro well.
If you refuse, you are the one who is tanking.
Non-aps barb cannot hold against aps-sins. Never.

wrong wrong wrong

i held agro pretty well so far with sparking sins

best so far was a r9 sin who actually wishpeed me saying WOW you held AGRO
while she sparked on sot bh boss.

but then i am not 300 str i am 568 str

Ghoul, in your case I bet it was the str add. It is huge.

Most barbs are just the 300~ str, 60~ dex and 150~ vit

My damage output isn't enough to hold aggro against sins.

Krisnda wrote: »

I get what your saying, but normally the veno wouldn't get the chance to pull because of people rushing through everything. Also I would think you would want the squad to be ready before people just start pulling things and killing people.

^ Isn't this the point of the BM and barb class?


I mean we are desired to rush ahead, with or without buffs and heals, and round **** up to be killed and tank while we bring it back to the heavy nukes in the squad.



but maybe it's just personal experience of having to play tank on the warsong paths for BH when ppl can't find a damn barb

DeepSilence - Dreamweaver wrote: »

- sins/any class that don't use the genie debuff tangling mire (or even ep) - in general ppl that don't use genies as much as they should! wtf do you have the genie for if not to use it?!!

That's a bit of a subjective point. A lot of sins don't have Extreme Poison because it overwrites Subsea Strike, and so they prefer to use that slot for something like Frenzy.

As for Tangling Mire, for Nirvana purposes it's not that great. If you happen to have a Veno with Sage Ironwood, that's going to be better than Tangling Mire on a non-strength genie.

And a lot of people use genies for other purposes. For example: Absolute Domain, Faith, Tree of Protection, Frenzy, Occult Ice, Wind Shield, Fortify, Holy Path, Badge of Courage, Lawbreaker, Bramble Rage, Chi Siphon, Cloud Eruption, Expel, Alpha Male. That is, for some people genies are means to help them in PvP. To some they're emergency usage only. To some, they're debuffers. You can't really blame someone for having a specialized genie.

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

^ Isn't this the point of the BM and barb class?


I mean we are desired to rush ahead, with or without buffs and heals, and round **** up to be killed and tank while we bring it back to the heavy nukes in the squad.



but maybe it's just personal experience of having to play tank on the warsong paths for BH when ppl can't find a damn barb

Barb class maybe, but it seems like anyone can tank nowadays. b:chuckle

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's a bit of a subjective point. A lot of sins don't have Extreme Poison because it overwrites Subsea Strike, and so they prefer to use that slot for something like Frenzy.

I find having ep on genie very helpful, specially in solo fcs - just think that you can ss only on the first spark so ep is very helpful on the second spark

Even in nirvy, casting an ep when somebody forgets (which happens quite a lot) to subsea is very helpful - lots of debuffs on boss make the killing go faster.

You are right about being subjective tho as I have an 81+ genie so I managed to have mire, ep and frenzy - tho even on my old 71+ genie I had them all and 71+ genies are not that expensive to get. Still, I mostly only do fc and nirvy so my genie is debuff oriented b:chuckle

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

As for Tangling Mire, for Nirvana purposes it's not that great. If you happen to have a Veno with Sage Ironwood, that's going to be better than Tangling Mire on a non-strength genie.

I don't agree with you here, Tangling mire is the best debuff skill to get on genie in my opinion - it stacks with any other debuffs you can think of and for sure it stacks with sage ironwood - I can tell you that because I have a sage veno with sage ironwood

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

And a lot of people use genies for other purposes. For example: Absolute Domain, Faith, Tree of Protection, Frenzy, Occult Ice, Wind Shield, Fortify, Holy Path, Badge of Courage, Lawbreaker, Bramble Rage, Chi Siphon, Cloud Eruption, Expel, Alpha Male. That is, for some people genies are means to help them in PvP. To some they're emergency usage only. To some, they're debuffers. You can't really blame someone for having a specialized genie.

You are right here but from nirvy runs point of view it's kind of annoying not to have any debuffs on genie, for me at least tangling mire is a must since you can use it on any nirvy boss (unlike ep).

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Olbaze Thing is, Mire can stack with Ironwood, unless Sage Ironwood has the same icon as mire's p def reduction one.

I know it does. Thing is, Ironwood has a 8s cooldown with 20 second debuff duration, so it's perfectly maintainable, whereas Tangling Mire has a 30s cooldown, making it a one-off in most cases. Even more so since most squads will want a veno anyway.

And if you happen to have a Demon who happens to land armor break, that's just a whole different thing.

DeepSilence - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I find having ep on genie very helpful, specially in solo fcs - just think that you can ss only on the first spark so ep is very helpful on the second spark

Even in nirvy, casting an ep when somebody forgets (which happens quite a lot) to subsea is very helpful - lots of debuffs on boss make the killing go faster.

You are right about being subjective tho as I have an 81+ genie so I managed to have mire, ep and frenzy - tho even on my old 71+ genie I had them all and 71+ genies are not that expensive to get. Still, I mostly only do fc and nirvy so my genie is debuff oriented b:chuckle

I don't agree with you here, Tangling mire is the best debuff skill to get on genie in my opinion - it stacks with any other debuffs you can think of and for sure it stacks with sage ironwood - I can tell you that because I have a sage veno with sage ironwood

You are right here but from nirvy runs point of view it's kind of annoying not to have any debuffs on genie, for me at least tangling mire is a must since you can use it on any nirvy boss (unlike ep).

It's not that I don't have debuffs on a genie. My genie has Earthflame, Tangling Mire, Extreme Poison, Windshield, Holy Path and Absolute Domain. I'm just saying that there's plenty of very good reasons why someone might not have debuffs on their genie.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think that's a server difference or a +10 nirvy thing only then, because I'm almost never in squad with venos whenever I could be bothered to make my own nirvy. Usually me, bm, another sin, and one more bm/sin is usually who asks to come. Although I've taken a mystic or cleric before as well....For me, tangling mire is good to have so that you don't have to rely on having a veno in the squad to debuff all the bosses in there.

Taking a veno for nirvana, preferably sage amp, is rather common on Sanc. The amp + physical def debuff + purge on 2nd boss makes them pretty wanted in all average and fast squads. It's not the phys def debuff only, cause clerics and barbs also have a permanent one.

That point is probably why for players from Sanc, like me, DeepSilence's post doesn't make that much sense. We think "who cares if the bm doesn't have the stupid purge pole and if they don't use gs, there is a veno for that".

I also just don't think Nirvana is worthy to build your genie on and get specific weapons for. My bm doesn't have any amping/debuff skill on the genie. I got skills on it to pull, cause Sanc doesn't have much pro barbs so I usually end up pulling while the barb spark+aps the mobs down b:surrender If I have a pole weap, it's mainly for the pushback skill. On Sanc, ppl only nirvana on 2x, while TT/BH/WS etc is every day. So I really don't care about nirvana-usefull skills on genie. Someone else will have the debuff if I go, I hope, if not, to bad ...

Seems that makes me a fail bm in the DW books, while in my opinion DeepSilence's post doesn't make much sense. So yeah, server difference I guess b:laugh

For the record, I'd glady take a veno if one ever answered my world chats. It's just none ever have, so I adapt. Pretty much all the sins and bms have TM on their genies anyway. Now getting them to use it another thing entirely. Many forget, they also forget to subsea. Your replies kinda makes me wanna switch servers, but deepsilence's post makes good sense here. At least in the squads I have been. b:chuckle

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

Arrrrgh! How I could forget that? I hate it when I see someone try to stun/immobilize/seal a boss ._.

or the r9+12 sins that subsea the unampable boss in nirvana

• People that thin I'm a nab just cuz I'm a sin.. U know 'all she can do is spark and aps" type of thing.
  
  
• Pleveled ppl who know nothing about the game or their own class (like the full g15 vana bm i met in nirv that didn't know what refines are...)
  
  
• Ppl who think that your gear is more important thn your skill... Gear does help alot, but it doesn't make u pro.
  
  
• Ppl who expect me to do everything at the same time (eg. tank the boss and kill the birds at 4th boss in nirvana)
  
  
• Not only, but mainly sins who cannot use their skills properly. If I tank, I expect the other sin to at least rib and subsea on the boss for me, cuz thats what I always do for another tank, or squad over all.
  
  
• Ppl who keep spamming extreme poison even when I tell them that I have a demon ss and I DO USE IT.
  
  
• Sins that never use chill, even in places like delta, where u need to constantly spam AOE skills.
  
  
• Barbs that constantly knock back the mobs even if they're not in danger... I understand an archer, but barb who is nowhere near dying and can perfectly handle few mobs at a time that keeps pushing away the mobs.. Sometimes I have a feeling that they do it on purpose to **** me off x.x
  
  
• BMs that cannot time their HFs with squad's sparks or squad's main DD at least. (I understand if they're laggy ofc)
  
  
• Squads that NEVER say anything... How can we cooperate with no comunication at all..? x.x
  
  
• Clerics obsessed with heals... Don't get me wrong, lots of respect for clerics, in most of the cases its important to either spam IH or stay in BB at all the times, but if the boss hit sme for less thn 2k, and my bp and casual IH is mor ethn enough to keep my hp at it's max all the time thn y wasting time? I would preffer them to debuff or deal extra dmg instead...
  
  
• Classes that don't know what their skills do... Yeah I had a cleric in my sq that had no idea what her buffs are for o,O And yeah.. she was 101...
  
  
• People who go afk every 5 mins, or go afk and never come back.. especially if its a leader of the squad x.x
  
  
• Ppl who decide to change their mind, leave squad and go do soemthing else in the very last moment, when we're about to finally start the instance or w/e.