GM when will you fix BARBs agro skills

Aquyla - Heavens Tear · May 2012

long before i suggested to make something similar like + and - aggro gems that embedded on weapon will give increased/reduced aggro to players. after that i suggested something like passive aggro skills. call it ripoff from other mmos but those things actually do their job a.k.a control the aggro mechanic in game. and you can keep calling me an idiot, i don't mind cuz i know what kind of opinion i can have about you then but as long as you have weak bosses, epic gear, immunity to all dmg every 20 secs and brutal self healing items you no longer need anyone in your party. and even though i play other mmo now you can't barge in and tell me to get lost. this is forum and everyone has right to write their opinion here.

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary · May 2012

Aqu i think you are missing the point.. The game is way beond broke to the point that AGGRO doesnt matter to a barb.. Even if you give a barb Aggro skills and Aggro Gems, Aps can still do EVERYTHING in this game WITHOUT a barb/cleric in squad at a much FASTER speed.

There is WAY too much work required to do, its probably broken beyond repair. It would be easier for the Devs to make a new game from scratch..

One Suggestion that i can think of is to Make a new server without Tideborn expansion and packs and stuff which broke the game.. That server would have different sales compared to every other server, play the game old school like everyone says how good it was (no idea since i joined like 1 year back) but neways wud be good to see how it was..

truekossy · May 2012

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary wrote: »

*snip*

Finally someone who gets the point people like myself have been making in this thread. Nice to see people like you still exist.

VKnightV - Lost City · May 2012

truekossy wrote: »

Someone's completely missing my point. I'm all for barbs having both the capability to tank (actually holding aggro if DDs hold back but not to the point of crippling the run's speed) as well as the need to do so (bosses dealing larger amounts of damage to those who aren't considered tanks or having it scale with gear for bosses that are supposed to be the most elite or whatever so that the tank role classes are still needed even when the DD/Support is using the best of the best).

However the suggestions being thrown out here would make it a nightmare for everyone that isn't ALREADY the top 1% elite in terms of gear or bring things to a point where a certain pair of classes dominate the game. A real MMO has multiple classes able to tank (as well as the same for healing) though potnetially in different ways so that the game doesn't stagnate or become a case of "X LF Barb + Cleric will pay charm + repairs! + for you to go on the run you need as much as the rest of us!". Every class shouldn't be a tank, though each class should have the ability to survive long enough for a tank to get back on its feet if something happens IF the other classes are played well.

By the way, you used a lousy comparison. The TTs alone weren't the only reason there were more players back then and everyone knows it. Trying to cite that as your big reasoning is stupid and if it weren't for the fact that I agree on the principle, I'd have torn that down in an instant.

@Aquyla: I didn't call you an idiot until you had proven yourself as one. Your recent post simply supports it as you continue to bring up things that were never mentioned in the first place and keep acting like one. If you enjoy your new MMO so much then go there and stop trying to make this worse, as well as ay things that anyone with real experience here can tel you is a load of bull. Until you actually prove yourself, I'll continue to have full right to call you an idiot and will do so.

how would makeing boss hit like bosses instead of wussy as they hit now

btw i seen tons of +5 and lower gear refine kill OP bosses and top notch weapons and you call them tankers of the game you have to be freaking insane if you think a dd who have only +3 or +5 and tank bosses even i cant tank solo he can cos of self bp heal.

kill bp or spark and make barb and ep needed again i am sick of hearing how dd complain how there tankish role would be dead when they stole it from us.

bp spark int killed barb+ep and dont tell its its wrong

you was not here when they asked barb to tank and give charm for tanking or repair cost and when i tanked i took no one money

a dd is a dd why definition it dosent become a tank from it

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · May 2012

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clearly some people here are too new to know what barbs used to do for instance runs.

To say "not all barbs took 1st pick" is like saying "not all wizards get excluded for instance runs"

You can try to claim how nice you are but in general what you claim would be bull **** as far as most random squads would be concerned.

Hey, at least tanking APS players are not taking first pick or charm money right? Buff on aggro skills actually wouldn't really matter. If you like to take hits that's cool. Making instances impossible so that only barbs can tank would be decidedly ****.

I'm deeply disappointed that I didn't come up as a barb on Sanctuary, because apparently they just rule the place. My poor 3+year old barb just got invited to squads and was treated as if I was valued (until the fishies came out). I had people *offer* me deals like that, because they were damn happy to have a barb in squad. Sadly, those days are gone - and now all I see are $$$$Cata barbs and low-gear'd barbs named "BuffBiatch" standing by the teleport master.

So it upsets you that barbs who have invested lots of time and effort in their char and playing their class are upset, well I'm sure you'll get over it.

\starts a barb on Sanct
\\just so I can p*** all over you in squads

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · May 2012

it's funny when someone has the delusion that he wants the best for the game when he's just selfishb:chuckle

last time i checked there's no contract between the barbs and pan gu that they should always be the holy tank :b

truekossy · May 2012

Did you even read what I said or did you just kim and then ignore it in favor of going off on a tangent?

VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »

you was not here when they asked barb to tank and give charm for tanking or repair cost and when i tanked i took no one money

....*looks at your join date*
Hmm....
*checks own join date*
Mhm....
*checks your core connect*

Hello World!
Complete your first quest.
Sep 27, 2011

Ah, I see now.....

You don't know hat you're talking about and are just ignoring any point I make to be butthurt. Is that it? Because I've been here since the start as well as know what I'm talking about when I choose to post and you.... have not and do not appear to know what you talk about from a quick search of your post history. b:laugh

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2012

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary wrote: »

2. The thing is people already have got r9, if you make an instance challenging enough for your average tt99+5, r9s would roll it, if you make an instance challenging for r9+10 average tt99+5 dont get a chance to survive it.

It's true that the biggest problem is to make the bosses harder to need a "tank" and "healer" without having r9 become the bare minimum for a barb. There are solutions for that. There is something called soulforce that can easily be used to make bosses be proportionally hard to someone's gear quality. Or maybe a super simple idea that just popped in my mind : put -20 warding lvls on all G12+ LA and AA parts (those go negative like defence lvls I think, could be wrong though).

There are plenty of possible solutions to disable LA and AA characters from tanking without disadvantaging those who aren't rich. It will just take a little more thinking then just put a multiplier on something like they did with their lame "aps nerf".

On the multiple tanking classes point : Personally I consider everyone wearing HA as potential tank or spare tank. For me, bms have always been a tanking class if the player chooses too. Now there are more "tankers" then the old days with the seeker class and easier acces to pets with defence buffs. However, I think a barbarian should be the best tank, meaning that with a bm, seeker and barb in squad, ppl would prefer the barb to tank even if the other 2 also could.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · May 2012

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

To get on that topic, I have three things to say:
1. I'm a Sage sin for a purpose.
2. I leveled my cleric shop alt for a purpose
3. BB makes me QQ as a sage sin

Same (sage sin) and comparable gear (i have the warsoul helm and +5 gear, otherwise very similar)

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Boohoo. I don't get to TW due to various issues, but from what I gather wizards are also complaining about being useless outside of TW.

Since TW is about the only place barbs are still even considered mildly useful anymore, it seemed appropriate to point it out. And Wizzies have had persecution issues ever since Zhenning fell out of practice.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seen both happen. As for me, I can solo abaddon and seat so the only reason I'd go with squads on those would be to save trouble. As for Metal, I can tank that too but it's not a guaranteed thing, especially if the rest of the squad is below my own gear level. Which is pretty common. Oh and I'm this.

Like i said above, very similar build to *my* sin. I originally rolled mine sage to buff my barb to farm. Now I use my barb to buff my sin to farm...

Olbaze - Sanctuary · May 2012

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's true that the biggest problem is to make the bosses harder to need a "tank" and "healer" without having r9 become the bare minimum for a barb. There are solutions for that. There is something called soulforce that can easily be used to make bosses be proportionally hard to someone's gear quality. Or maybe a super simple idea that just popped in my mind : put -20 warding lvls on all G12+ LA and AA parts (those go negative like defence lvls I think, could be wrong though).

The problem is that Warding Levels work a bit differently. As per this, you'd run into issues. For example, I have 5 pieces of armor that is G12 or higher, meaning I'd get -100 Warding levels. This means that against any enemy that is exactly level 100, the formula would have a division by 0, which would probably break the game. For any enemy with a level lower than 100, I'd actually get a damage reduction, whereas for enemies higher than 100, I'd take extra damage.

For example, a level 150 enemy with -100 Warding Level would mean that all the damage you receive is tripled from normal. And I'm pretty sure you really don't want to triple the damage that mobs in Delta, bosses in Warsong/TT/Nirvana deal. That'd just make it hell for everyone. After all, DDs would then lower their armors to G11 in hopes of avoiding the damage penalty, which would result in a massive reduction in HP and defenses.

Also, due to them being multiplicative with Defense Levels, even someone with 78 Defense Levels (24x JoSD, R9 ring, R9 2-piece setbonus, O'Malley's) would still take ridiculous damage. In fact, they'd take damage equal to 1.55 times what they would have to take without the Defense Levels.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to do that.

As for using Soulforce to change the damage you take, that's also a rather flawed idea. For one, it would discourage people from refining, which would lead to crappier squads. It would also not guarantee that the barbs would be able to take the heat.

Though, you have to realize that the fault also lies within the community. The community is the one that keeps picking the 5.0 BM with 5k HP over the 15k HP barb.

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · May 2012

Basicly what it would do would end PvE and make this game only PvP and TW b:chuckle

ItsAWolf - Archosaur · May 2012

If you want to make it so only barbs can tank bosses... make bosses do more damage and give barbs a passive skill: dmg taken from bosses reduced by X%

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2012

@ Olbaze : This *takes calculator away* is not an excuse to not use your brain.

I just pulled -20 warden out of my thumb to show something that most refuse to see : there are plenty of simple solutions to fix an aspect of the game without having it trigger all kind of side effects. You go directly in the exception of full r9 with JoSD, then again, give r9 another value if the defense bonus multiplies the effect. And don't you think that a pve defense penalty is just a smallish issue for the ridiculous damage gain and pvp overpowerness ? (Also keep in mind that sin is the exception class with g15 nirvana getting close to r9 daggers damage output).

As for the soulforce point : I just don't agree. It would just force ppl to keep a balance in their weapon and armor. Boss would become harder, but will still be faster.

This :

ItsAWolf - Archosaur wrote: »

If you want to make it so only barbs can tank bosses... make bosses do more damage and give barbs a passive skill: dmg taken from bosses reduced by X%

is also a good idea. I don't care to dig into insignificant details of how much the % should be and wether or not bm/seeker also deserves a similar passive skill. It simply shows how easy it is to adjust a part of the game to the gear evolution without triggering a waterfall of effects on other sides of the game.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Olbaze : This *takes calculator away* is not an excuse to not use your brain.

I just pulled -20 warden out of my thumb to show something that most refuse to see : there are plenty of simple solutions to fix an aspect of the game without having it trigger all kind of side effects. You go directly in the exception of full r9 with JoSD, then again, give r9 another value if the defense bonus multiplies the effect. And don't you think that a pve defense penalty is just a smallish issue for the ridiculous damage gain and pvp overpowerness ? (Also keep in mind that sin is the exception class with g15 nirvana getting close to r9 daggers damage output).

As for the soulforce point : I just don't agree. It would just force ppl to keep a balance in their weapon and armor. Boss would become harder, but will still be faster.

This :

is also a good idea. I don't care to dig into insignificant details of how much the % should be and wether or not bm/seeker also deserves a similar passive skill. It simply shows how easy it is to adjust a part of the game to the gear evolution without triggering a waterfall of effects on other sides of the game.

Your "solutions" wind up making everyone who's not rank 9 one shot kills to just about every level 150 boss in the game. Imagine trying to kill Snakefist with -100 warding levels. His AoE would kill everyone BUT the barb. Then the barb would die because everyone else is dead. You would make the game unplayable.

Quilue - Sanctuary · May 2012

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm deeply disappointed that I didn't come up as a barb on Sanctuary, because apparently they just rule the place. My poor 3+year old barb just got invited to squads and was treated as if I was valued (until the fishies came out). I had people *offer* me deals like that, because they were damn happy to have a barb in squad. Sadly, those days are gone - and now all I see are $$$$Cata barbs and low-gear'd barbs named "BuffBiatch" standing by the teleport master.

So it upsets you that barbs who have invested lots of time and effort in their char and playing their class are upset, well I'm sure you'll get over it.

\starts a barb on Sanct
\\just so I can p*** all over you in squads

Your mental state seem to be unfit to be responding to people's posts. It's OK, while you weep bitterly and try to choke out a spiteful reply, I'd just like you to know that I don't actually farm in this game.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · May 2012

Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yup, I'm stupid.

Let's break this down.

Current standards for a 3-4 minute run would not exist anymore.

Standard 5APS +10 squads would take 4x as long, which, for a standard squad starts at closer to 7-9 minutes, so removing spark would put it at 21-27, the problem with this is sin wouldn't be able to tank on BP alone, so a cleric would be needed, that puts it at around 25-32, that's OPTIMISTIC time. now immagine for a second that sins couldn't tank Nirvana even WITH a cleric at this point, after all, a sin's primary life support is BP, and without spark they get next to nothing, that means sins would have to chill and let the BM tank. that would undoubtably put it to 40-60 minutes/run or longer. factor in the time it would take to do last boss, losing one DD, it'll take longer than that even.

So sure, the 2-3 hours was an exaggeration, but an hour would still be long enough to discourage free to play people from farming Nirvy, let alone TT or anything else.

That's the whole idea, but I am sure it would not take that long unless you're just APSing without spark. There's debuffs and amps for a reason. Maybe a decrease in hp and attack in pve would do when spark is removed but to add critical on mobs / bosses.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your "solutions" wind up making everyone who's not rank 9 one shot kills to just about every level 150 boss in the game. Imagine trying to kill Snakefist with -100 warding levels. His AoE would kill everyone BUT the barb. Then the barb would die because everyone else is dead. You would make the game unplayable.

I agree somewhat, although seekers and venoes won't really die either though unless no one is there to heal them. I really believe that spark burst should just be removed instead of buffing the bosses. That would force people to either +12 or quit, like how TW was ruined because of R9.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · May 2012

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Olbaze : This *takes calculator away* is not an excuse to not use your brain.

Yeah, that's what my formulae reference book is for. Which is pretty much useless for anything except the stuff that no one ever wants to learn, like the rules for integrals.

I just pulled -20 warden out of my thumb to show something that most refuse to see : there are plenty of simple solutions to fix an aspect of the game without having it trigger all kind of side effects. You go directly in the exception of full r9 with JoSD, then again, give r9 another value if the defense bonus multiplies the effect. And don't you think that a pve defense penalty is just a smallish issue for the ridiculous damage gain and pvp overpowerness ? (Also keep in mind that sin is the exception class with g15 nirvana getting close to r9 daggers damage output).

The thing is... any penalty aimed at balancing R9s in PvE would hurt the non-R9s even more. Whereas that R9 sin I theorized would take 55% extra damage, a non-R9 sin would be taking freaking 300%. That's 6x, compared to the current 2x.

Warding Levels would just add another multiplier, which would only make the gap between R9 and non-R9 in PvE even worse, since the Defense Levels of R9 would soften the effect of Warding Levels.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of folks who don't PvP and still got ridiculous gear. Punishing such people just because "R9 is PvP gear" would be rather harsh.

As for the soulforce point : I just don't agree. It would just force ppl to keep a balance in their weapon and armor. Boss would become harder, but will still be faster.

Only works if the community is sane. The community of PWI is the most illogical, insane bunch of folk I've ever seen. If there was a dingledongle with soulforce, most people would opt to not refine and would instead go for better shards as a workaround.

And besides, how would you work that into a squad setting? If there's a single R9 in a squad, the highest soulforce for the squad is ridiculously low. Then again, if we talk average soulforce, you could just invite over your naked shopalt to pretty much halve the soulforce.

Also, where would you count it? If you count the soulforce when you enter the instance, people could just work around it by entering gearless. If you count it at the boss, that would mean all the mobs would remain unaffected?

Oh, and any multiplier or increment centering on soulforce would have to be somehow exponential. Which might work to **** off all R9s and such because they could no more: solo FCC, solo TM69, duo/trio TM Lunar, dual log for Nirvana.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's the whole idea, but I am sure it would not take that long unless you're just APSing without spark. There's debuffs and amps for a reason. Maybe a decrease in hp and attack in pve would do when spark is removed but to add critical on mobs / bosses.

Debuffs and amps already exist in the game. It's not like being 5 aps means you suddenly stop using Power Dash, HF, Subsea Strike, Extreme Poison and Tangling Mire.

VKnightV - Lost City · May 2012

truekossy wrote: »

Did you even read what I said or did you just kim and then ignore it in favor of going off on a tangent?

....*looks at your join date*
Hmm....
*checks own join date*
Mhm....
*checks your core connect*

Ah, I see now.....

You don't know hat you're talking about and are just ignoring any point I make to be butthurt. Is that it? Because I've been here since the start as well as know what I'm talking about when I choose to post and you.... have not and do not appear to know what you talk about from a quick search of your post history. b:laugh

i was in malaysia server a year and halv before i come to lost well lost was not made yet.started out frsh when lost city come out and been playing veno for what it seem like halv a year but then cos i know some old **** i made ghoul so plz before you tell me join date check ur own *** it seem to be missing a part.

now as i said and yes i belive barb is the holy doe tank of pwi it still state so when you create one so all ur aps **** wont sway me.

if you wana sht talk and say its all about speed i could say that devs made some book that much like int they if multiplied could deal 1000% more damage based on the skill used.
would the killing be slower then no even faster actually and oH i am using my designated skill se huray for its a mmo at last.

what is wrong by making bosses hit extreamly hard they are bosses they are meant to do hard damage.

should i barb be full vit build YES much like before tide born becose its a MMO.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · May 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Neglecting barbs is mean.

b:cry

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver · May 2012

Barbs have never been able to hold aggro against any of the high dps/dph classes even before TB expansion. Everyone had to hold back or tank/die back then. Nothing has changed since and it never will.

jimbillybob46310 · May 2012

Funny thing is this would be a simple fix that even the new devs could prob figure out.
SHORTEN THE CD ON FLESH REAM BY 1 SECOND.
Problem solved. Easy fix.
BUT i for 1 will NOT hold my BREATH.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · May 2012

jimbillybob46310 wrote: »

Funny thing is this would be a simple fix that even the new devs could prob figure out.
SHORTEN THE CD ON FLESH REAM BY 1 SECOND.
Problem solved. Easy fix.
BUT i for 1 will NOT hold my BREATH.

na make fleash ream hit 5 time in a sec b:pleased

you push ream and you do ream 5 times and you get chi from it

come on devs make it happen

maocchi · May 2012

Shut up and Devour my bosses so I have to take less hits.

thumbs · May 2012

If people want this game to play like some other game; why not just go play that game rather than declare this one broke simply for being different?

n6rejbh · May 2012

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

not everyone will do just a dd party cos not everyone can tank every singel boss.

and i know many dd who would love to see barb as the tank again bt know with there current ream its not possible.

AHA I am ARCHER FEAR MY ARROWS!! b:dirty *thunk* *thunk*
Watches boss take massive damage.........
Mr. Ghoul Dies.... b:shocked
Bear gets agro... b:cry ... SOMEONE REZ GHOUL!!!!!....
HEEEEYYEEEELLLLLLP!!!!!... Bear kites boss in circles running like scared school girl...
Ghoul rezzed, rebuffed, fur combed hollers to bring him back....
Bear pots , uses speed skills and runs quickly back to Ghoul and b:pleased as Ghoul takes a big bite out of boss...
b:surrender I AM ARCHER!!!... Now where did I put those lvl 1 arrows again?

Gosh I miss the old days!!

^5 Ghoul

RandomDent - Dreamweaver · May 2012

thumbs wrote: »

If people want this game to play like some other game; why not just go play that game rather than declare this one broke simply for being different?

Because it isn't out yet. b:sad

Games where there is one tank class that can lock aggro by spamming 1-2 skills are boring anyway.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · May 2012

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your mental state seem to be unfit to be responding to people's posts. It's OK, while you weep bitterly and try to choke out a spiteful reply, I'd just like you to know that I don't actually farm in this game.

Bless your heart...

b:kiss

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · May 2012

RandomDent - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because it isn't out yet. b:sad

Games where there is one tank class that can lock aggro by spamming 1-2 skills are boring anyway.

and sparking +aps+bp is much better then spamming what is my skill hmm yes ur very b:shutup

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · May 2012

Just let barbs freely equip claws/fists in Tiger form and have full use of skills, then we'll have some mad scratching kitties.

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide · May 2012

RageKill - Lost City wrote: »

I would love for a barb to be able to hold aggro in a party. Needs an update big time.

This. Plain and simple. Tanks are meant to be tank.

GM when will you fix BARBs agro skills

Comments

Categories