PW International Championship Discussion

Halt - Harshlands wrote: »

Especially the g12 fire shard part

don't they also have someone with a g12 earth shard? professional use of a socket right there, it must add mad damage for taking down cata pullers.

Bludd - Harshlands wrote: »

does it even make sense that we would tire of it yet continue to play the game on a PK server?

Honest simple question: What is it that you PvP for? What is it that you find enjoyable? The challenge? The opportunity to improve personal skills? Or its out the ego of a high kill count or the rush of slaughtering the weaker?

Those like myself who PvP for the sake of challenge do indeed do many of the same things a you do (face it, this game is simple and there's not much variety), but sometimes for different reasons. Yes, we farm for ironguards and max out our genies, but we expect this to be standard. There is no pride or accomplishment in my eyes in anything PvE - we PvE to PvP and do it only when necessary to PvP. A charm or pot used in PvE is a charm or pot wasted. In PvP itself, you may often find me sitting back in uneven fights or fighting intentionally with a self handicap(e.g. no nix or worse gear our choosing not to use certain skills to accommodate for gear differences between myself and my opponent). I am certainly not alone in this and it is those people that earn my respect in PvP (and not the people who can 1-shot the most enemies). What challenge is there to be found in overpowering your opponent in either numbers or gear?

So again, what is it that you PvP for?

~ Keripo

Fragil - Harshlands wrote: »

Yesterday I was very very VERY lazy ingame, so I sat at SP for a couple of hours while doing stuff IRL, but everytime I checked game, Crimson was still there fighting. For at least 1h they were dominating SP VS Catalyst and Kylin, long before Insanity came to their aid.

Guildmembers asked if there was any PVP going on, I always said no, or asked them not to disturb Crimson crusade.


You know what the funny part of it all was?
After way over an hour passed, and Crimson was STILL dominating SP, the blue name trolls and random people started to insult them, about PVP, TW, etc, same way they always do to us, so honestly, Long you were totally right: The hatred comes from owning PVP areas, and it doesnt really matter if its Valhalla or Crimson or even Jesus himself.
So I got my answer afteral.

Thanks ^^

Exactly. It's not neccesarily even OWNING PVP areas though. I spent yesterday getting ganked like hell by Crimson, but I still stayed and never complained. Why? Because there was at least a FIGHT. A fight where both sides had potential to do at least a decent amount of damage. I don't have to wipe out all 9 of them to enjoy myself; I still have fun trying to kill 2-4 before the focus fire gets me. Other people might definitely complain though; not every class is gonna be able to deal with the massive amount of ganking that Crimson does.

Like the post above (keripo's), most people want fun or a challenge, and when one guild gets too dominant, people get cheesed off cause it kills the fun.

Yesterday I fought Crimson several times throughout the day, but there was only one point where I just left because it was ridiculous. That was after TW, because they had two hard-to-kill targets up in your face, camping the SZ line (wolfbrian, a barb, and Kalyptica, a r9 wizzie) while 10,000 DDs sat in the back anxiously trying to charge quickshot on you. I tried just running past Kaly and wolf to DD one of the squishy DDs, but instead of facing me or trying to survive, they'd just run. They'd run back and leave me stuck with 18 arrows flying my way and a very angry barb and r9 wizzie. I left because there was no potential for anything and no real fight.


And THAT fight that I walked away from was a lot like what Valhalla does. I actually laugh at the thought of Valhalla's guild chat being like "EVERYONE DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING, THERE'S A R8 PSY AT WEST. ***** JUST GOT SERIOUS," but nah, it's still annoying. You go out, you IMMEDIATELY have 6 or so r9 +12s shooting at you, and should you miraculously manage to survive long enough to deal damage (keep in mind, the only reason I can actually survive for a bit is Psy will. Other classes aren't so lucky), what does your target do? Retreats. Retreats or ironguards. This is like, a r8 managing to make a r9 +12 dude's charm TICK, having costed 8 of my 10 physical immune seconds and all three of my sparks. I need to crit like a psychotic **** in the next 2-6 seconds to manage a kill from this. ONE kill. But do they take that risk? That tiny, 0.0000001% risk? No, they freaking ironguard or they retreat.
That's not a fight. There's no potential for improving yourself, there's no challenge since they literally make getting a kill near-impossible (if getting a kill relys on luck, then no that's not fun nor is it something to be proud of) and retreating or ironguarding when someone actually manages to get one fourth of the way to your death? That's rubbing salt in the wound.

People hate Valhalla, plain and simple, because there's absolutely no challenge. Not for them, and not for us. It's not even a fight. It's like putting Mike Tyson in the ring with a fourth grader, and for some reason Mike jumps up and down, flaps his arms about and says "AGAIN AGAIN!" after every match as if this BORING encounter that they refer to as "combat" is the most thrilling event they've ever taken part in in their lives.


People want a fight, people want a challenge. Valhalla apparently only wants to win and a shiny KPD ratio, so they do EVERYTHING possible to reduce their risk of dying, to the point where it's unrealistic that it'll happen.


I say Valhalla should put on r8 gear for a week. Try it out, see if they like it, see how they do. I guarentee it's more fun and interesting than one shotting everything, I guarentee more people will be willing to actually fight them, and off the top of my head I could name four r9's in Val who could definitely use the challenge as a chance to improve.


One last analogy then I'll let my wall-of-texts here die:

These are my stats from TF2: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/mr.people/stats2.png

You know which of those classes is most fun for me? Scout and Pyro. Why? Cause Scout is ****ing hard to play and Pyro is such an offensive, direct-in-your-face class that you just kinda burn everything and die with your enemies (like my Psy! ), so a good K/D ratio or a high score in a single life actually has reason to be impressive. Those for me are challenging and fun.
I get the impression Valhalla would like Demoman. Just set up mines at a choke point the enemy is forced to walk through, then sit in the back safely out of range of everything except maybe a very good Sniper (who would have to sneak by some enemies just to get a proper angle on you) or a very bitter spy, then detonate them when someone is standing on them. Rinse and repeat. You get a sick score, you get a nice KPD ratio, but ffs, you're sitting in the back, waiting to press a button when someone stands within a rather large area. Everyone's p!ssed at you because you're ruining the game, making it practically impossible for offense to advance and making the fights on the front-lines that much more boring. That's Valhalla in PWI.

negativereaction wrote: »

jump to that faulty conclusion if you want. it's true that camping the sz line with powerful numbers - as any guild, crimson, valhalla, whoever - will make a few feeble-minded players start complaining, but you're sorely mistaken if you think player reactions are the exact same to valhalla as they are to anyone else.

also k:d discussion belongs in fps-style games (or in games with a true k:d). it's a long-standing fact that k:d means nothing in pwi because the kills are not in any way weighted based on difficulty and they count unique kills only. which means the best way to boost your kill count is to kill the server's freshest batch of level 30s every couple of days, not killing the same r9 103 over and over (though the latter is more impressive of course).

No it's the same.

The difference is Crimson only PKs and ganks once in a blue moon. Val is out there every day one shotting people and never getting bored of it.