Guide: Demon vs Sage

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  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I wish they'd do that already as well, hate having to kite a little just to find time to click my self and rebuff when shield is broken during a fight >.>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Salvation is kind of annoying in TW >.<
  • zyean
    zyean Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Here's how I see it,

    Natures Vengeance - Sage\demon, depends on you
    Swirling Mist - Sage,
    Absorb Soul - Demon
    Gale Force - Don't know
    Bramble Tornado - Sage
    Thicket - Sage
    Break in the Clouds - Again, up to you, it balances out your chi gain if you pick demon natures, i personally think it's better as Sage
    Falling petals - Demon
    Resurrect - Demon
    Comforting Mist - Demon (chance to remove all status effects from a party or a 200 mana cost reduction, no brainer)
    3 basic pets - Demon
    Cragglord - Sage probably
    Energy leech - I personally would choose demon
    Verdant shield - Sage
    Wood mastery - Sage
    Rapid growth - up to you, i would probably choose sage for it

    tl;dr

    Sage - 6
    Demon - 8 (or 6 if you clump all 3 basic pet summons together)
    For you to decide which is better - 3,
    Undetermined - 1

    So it's about a tie depending on what you decide for the "For you to decide which is better" category
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    zyean wrote: »
    Here's how I see it,

    Natures Vengeance - Sage\demon, depends on you
    Swirling Mist - Sage,
    Absorb Soul - Demon
    Gale Force - Don't know
    Bramble Tornado - Sage
    Thicket - Sage
    Break in the Clouds - Again, up to you, it balances out your chi gain if you pick demon natures, i personally think it's better as Sage
    Falling petals - Demon
    Resurrect - Demon
    Comforting Mist - Demon (chance to remove all status effects from a party or a 200 mana cost reduction, no brainer)
    3 basic pets - Demon
    Cragglord - Sage probably
    Energy leech - I personally would choose demon
    Verdant shield - Sage
    Wood mastery - Sage
    Rapid growth - up to you, i would probably choose sage for it

    tl;dr

    Sage - 6
    Demon - 8 (or 6 if you clump all 3 basic pet summons together)
    For you to decide which is better - 3,
    Undetermined - 1

    So it's about a tie depending on what you decide for the "For you to decide which is better" category

    Hate to post in this thread again, but I gotta say, your view on the skills is pretty screwy lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zyean
    zyean Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »
    Hate to post in this thread again, but I gotta say, your view on the skills is pretty screwy lol


    I'm a screwy person so it works out :D
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    zyean wrote: »
    Here's how I see it,

    3 basic pets - Demon

    Sage - 6
    Demon - 8 (or 6 if you clump all 3 basic pet summons together)

    So it's about a tie depending on what you decide for the "For you to decide which is better" category

    I don't know why I wasted a minute of my life to read this. But ur right though, pets get better stats with demon culti, so they actually count b:cute
  • XMiyala - Dreamweaver
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Tbh, the summons don't really matter which culti path it is. I mean, sage and demon summons both get the same 3rd skill. The only thing that makes a difference is if you use less mana, or get more chi from it.
  • l3zardvaleth
    l3zardvaleth Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Tbh, the summons don't really matter which culti path it is. I mean, sage and demon summons both get the same 3rd skill. The only thing that makes a difference is if you use less mana, or get more chi from it.
    I think arch was being sarcastic about it
  • XMiyala - Dreamweaver
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I know, this thread has basically turned into sarcasm. Maybe someone should make a non-biased thread on demon and sage.
  • Rubblemancer - Sanctuary
    Rubblemancer - Sanctuary Posts: 191 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    That will be impossible as long as people have the attitude that their decisions are right and everyone else's are wrong.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks to Silvy for the awesome sig!
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I know, this thread has basically turned into sarcasm. Maybe someone should make a non-biased thread on demon and sage.

    There's a big *** disclaimer in the first post.

    and lol @ "someone shoudl make a non biased...". I once heard this story where the content found on the internet was objective, non biased and capable of being called the definitive truth. Or maybe it was a dream...???
    Rubblemancer - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That will be impossible as long as people have the attitude that their decisions are right and everyone else's are wrong.

    It's better to think ur right or wrong based on reliable information and experience, rather than not having an opinion at all and not even be willing to research or experiment about it.

    "someone shoud do this, someone should do that", sounds familiar? b:chuckle

    Now, back on topic...

    Dang,anyone found lvl 11 verdant shell/petals/resurrect???

    or is demon verdant shell / resurrect as hard to find as sage versions? >.<

    I'm getting the feeling I'm the only Mystic on server >.< b:cry
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Now, back on topic...

    Dang,anyone found lvl 11 verdant shell/petals/resurrect???

    or is demon verdant shell / resurrect as hard to find as sage versions? >.<

    I'm getting the feeling I'm the only Mystic on server >.< b:cry

    Yui made like 4 sage res books. A friend of mine almost has all of her demon skills, she just needs verdant shell, petals, and mastery. And I think Leimomi might have all of her sage skills by now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    where da hell is Yui? he's been offline for quite a while now. I'm just missing sage verdant shell, mastery and resurrect !!! I found petals today in AH n_n
  • XMiyala - Dreamweaver
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    There's a big *** disclaimer in the first post.

    and lol @ "someone shoudl make a non biased...". I once heard this story where the content found on the internet was objective, non biased and capable of being called the definitive truth. Or maybe it was a dream...???

    Yea I know there's a big disclaimer. I'm just saying, I'm sure some people read this guide as biased as it is seeking for advice on what path to go, and with it being biased it would probably throw them off. Although I did notice that you edited your guide again and said that demon and sage where both equally good at the end. Anyways I went demon and I'm happy with it, although when I told someone that I was demon, they replied "Most mystics go sage". But, however biased this guide is, in my opinion it's still the most descriptive.
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Well, someone actually did make an attempt at an unbiased guide, and really I think they did good job with it. It even has unbiased in its title :b

    All they simply did was list the good sides of each culti so that people could decide which ones they would prefer, making it easier for them to choose for themselves.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    btw I JUST noticed I used my archers tome in the pwcalcs on my first post lol... (13 dex 12 vit) I should change that sometime soon
  • Zolias - Raging Tide
    Zolias - Raging Tide Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Ok, let's make this short and sweet, ok?

    Between the two...

    Sage Mystic = Best at PvE

    Demon Mystic = Best at PvP

    If you're gonna spend all the time doing PvE, then feel free to go sage.

    If you're gonna be having fun between grinding and FCing by PKing your pals and the morons that just blatantly **** you off, then go demon.

    'nuff said.


    ...well, not really... 1 more thing needs to be said:

    Requesting Thread Lock on the count of 'Obvious Flame Bait.'
    b:surrender I admit to feeding trolls. b:surrender

    ...however, in my defense, said food WAS poisoned! b:sin
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Zolias - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ok, let's make this short and sweet, ok?

    Between the two...

    Sage Mystic = Best at PvE

    Demon Mystic = Best at PvP

    If you're gonna spend all the time doing PvE, then feel free to go sage.

    If you're gonna be having fun between grinding and FCing by PKing your pals and the morons that just blatantly **** you off, then go demon.

    'nuff said.


    ...well, not really... 1 more thing needs to be said:

    Requesting Thread Lock on the count of 'Obvious Flame Bait.'

    Says the lvl 84 male mystic who knows whats he's talkin about because he's got all his lvl 11 skills and experienced them in 1st person action.. OH WAIT

    Both are actually equally effective depending on playstyle, demons best perks are AS and petals imo, whereas sage goes for chi, RG, shell. While we aren't nukers (our main nuke doesn't benefit from spark), u can either choose the trip spark for extra channeling or damage reduction while u attack ur target. It's fine either way nowadays, 94 attack lvls.. 64 def levels...
  • TreeHugs - Harshlands
    TreeHugs - Harshlands Posts: 368 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Says the lvl 84 male mystic who knows whats he's talkin about because he's got all his lvl 11 skills and experienced them in 1st person action.. OH WAIT

    Both are actually equally effective depending on playstyle, demons best perks are AS and petals imo, whereas sage goes for chi, RG, shell. While we aren't nukers (our main nuke doesn't benefit from spark), u can either choose the trip spark for extra channeling or damage reduction while u attack ur target. It's fine either way nowadays, 94 attack lvls.. 64 def levels...

    his avatar is of a 84 seeker b:chuckle not mystic... who knows what lvl his mystic really is :o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    TreeHugs - Lv. 101 Demon Rank 8 Mystic
    vixter - Lv. 101 Demon Heavy Rank 8 Venomancer
  • ptana
    ptana Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    TreeHugs - Harshlands wrote: »
    his avatar is of a 84 seeker b:chuckle not mystic... who knows what lvl his mystic really is :o

    So you comment only that this guy came to teach us our class as seeker and you are fine that ArchAngeLi thinks demon vs sage its AS and petals vs chi, RG, shell ?
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Both are actually equally effective depending on playstyle, demons best perks are AS and petals imo, whereas sage goes for chi, RG, shell. While we aren't nukers (our main nuke doesn't benefit from spark), u can either choose the trip spark for extra channeling or damage reduction while u attack ur target. It's fine either way nowadays, 94 attack lvls.. 64 def levels...

    I think you're trolling, 'cause iirc you used demon petals lasting up to 5 minutes as an argument to advocate sage for a long time. And out of battle demons get chi faster than sages even without the chi skill thx to clouds. And imo sage shell is better until you get highly refined ornaments to where that extra 10% pdef it gives won't matter that much thx to diminishing returns, and I would prefer status evasion. And I like demon version of RG better, but that really depends on the person I guess since I don't spam it on every cooldown.

    I think sage's high points are the purify on break, extra cragg time(demon cragg is good also), extra anti stun duration on leech, and mastery.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »
    I think you're trolling, 'cause iirc you used demon petals lasting up to 5 minutes as an argument to advocate sage for a long time. And out of battle demons get chi faster than sages even without the chi skill thx to clouds. And imo sage shell is better until you get highly refined ornaments to where that extra 10% pdef it gives won't matter that much thx to diminishing returns, and I would prefer status evasion. And I like demon version of RG better, but that really depends on the person I guess since I don't spam it on every cooldown.

    I think sage's high points are the purify on break, extra cragg time(demon cragg is good also), extra anti stun duration on leech, and mastery.

    I'm still sage and wont switch culti, but over time I've experienced my mystic and a friends Mystic, and both are equally good. I still think sage fits my playstyle better.

    About chi... well, sage can spam heal while the chi skill is on cooldown and we are even LOL.
    About petals, I made an update on my guide where I posted that it behaves just like the sin buff and that it's a nice perk.

    here's my new guide: now with r9... why not just choose culti path randomly, choose a target, then faceroll keyboard, several windows will pop up, don't worry, proceed slowly to close those windows, and then u'll see if he's either laying dead there or he went back to town already.
    ptana wrote: »
    So you comment only that this guy came to teach us our class as seeker and you are fine that ArchAngeLi thinks demon vs sage its AS and petals vs chi, RG, shell ?

    LoL. Actually I have a huge and controversial post at the begining of this thread, maybe you'd like to check it before attempting to point fingers.

    About my late comments, I'm talkin more PvP. Or you need advice about what's best culti for ur BH?
  • TreeHugs - Harshlands
    TreeHugs - Harshlands Posts: 368 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ptana wrote: »
    So you comment only that this guy came to teach us our class as seeker and you are fine that ArchAngeLi thinks demon vs sage its AS and petals vs chi, RG, shell ?

    i only be postin' to troll on ArchAngelLi :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    TreeHugs - Lv. 101 Demon Rank 8 Mystic
    vixter - Lv. 101 Demon Heavy Rank 8 Venomancer
  • ResMePls - Heavens Tear
    ResMePls - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,349 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Mystic fails in PvP anyway, roll a psychic for max returnsb:victory.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Mystic fails in PvP anyway, roll a psychic for max returnsb:victory.

    Haven't tried it on UrDian but most psys get 1 shot by Absorb Soul. Max Returns indeed.

    EDIT:

    Removed pwcalcs from the guide, left only my current build.
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Mystics are really good in pvp from my own experience. Really, I don't think psys get better till they start getting more refines higher than +8/9. Until then lol, mystics can easily beat psys. There's a r8 +7 psy on my server who cannot kill me while I spam break, and I'm not spamming break just to survive her attacks lol I'm spamming it to build chi, hit her with thicket, then a simple absorb soul combo and she's dead. +10 is a different story lol But I'm obviously not even at 100 yet, so we'll see how that goes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ptana
    ptana Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »



    LoL. Actually I have a huge and controversial post at the begining of this thread, maybe you'd like to check it before attempting to point fingers.

    About my late comments, I'm talkin more PvP. Or you need advice about what's best culti for ur BH?

    i read your thread from the 1st day you made it because its interesting not because i want to choose culti.im demon few months now, we are both r8 blabla but who cares.i only reply your post when you say sage its equal to demon but you really scream sage is better than demon
    yes you have huge and controversial post at the beginning of this thread only because few mystics told you the use of the demon path,i remember how the original was all the way sage.
    peace
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    srry, not a people pleaser.

    I still think sage is better than demon for Mystic's purpose (which, eseentially, is a mixture of everything but NOT just that), but it's stupid to overlook or deny demons add-ons that are helpful in PvP. Being blind to it just for the heck of it would not be reasonable nor original, would just be childish and plain stupid.
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I love pvp, main reason I'm demon because of skills like gale force, clouds, thicket, absorb soul, just about all of the attack skills really lol The only time I wish I were sage is when I'm fighting those nix venos. Armor break + nix bleed hurts b:surrender But triple spark or a timely AD can help there
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    VoIt u should reroll female mystic el o el

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