Guide: Demon vs Sage

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  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Indeed. Thicket DOES have PvP reduction, but in things like GV... it hits tremendously hard lol

    go sage if you wanna PvE rofl!

    not my words, just how i read this.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Iseria - Harshlands
    Iseria - Harshlands Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Indeed. Thicket DOES have PvP reduction, but in things like GV... it hits tremendously hard lol
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    go sage if you wanna PvE rofl!

    not my words, just how i read this.

    fail troll is fail. don't need sage or demon for thicket to hit hard already. go demon for pvp? go thicket ur enemy to get chance of amplify! yay !!! not my words, just how i read this

    lolwutustupid?
  • Kimmahri - Harshlands
    Kimmahri - Harshlands Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    go sage if you wanna PvE rofl!

    not my words, just how i read this.

    go PvE server if you wanna PvE rofl!
    not my words, just how i read this
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    lmfao, Mizuoni just got rick roll'd
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Iseria - Harshlands wrote: »
    fail troll is fail. don't need sage or demon for thicket to hit hard already. go demon for pvp? go thicket ur enemy to get chance of amplify! yay !!! not my words, just how i read this

    lolwutustupid?
    Not a troll. If the only strong point of sage thicket is GV then its really not worth it.
    Kimmahri - Harshlands wrote: »
    go PvE server if you wanna PvE rofl!
    not my words, just how i read this
    b:byeI play on lost city too, ijs. Wiz/Mystic on DW. Psychic/Seeker on LC.
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    lmfao, Mizuoni just got rick roll'd

    b:cuteyou wish darling
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Rubblemancer - Sanctuary
    Rubblemancer - Sanctuary Posts: 191 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I think this thread needs a little more numbers. A little less worrying about how it looks, or feels, and what it actually does or doesn't do. If something has a chance to lower resistences for 15 seconds how much extra damage is it if I just spam nature's vengence. How often would it occur, what trade offs would I have to make. And then, maybe, a little statement about whether it would be worth the trade offs. There has been to much discussion about why this tradeoff is better than that one, and very little about what each actually does, situations when they shine, times it will wipe your team, and why you might want it anyway.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks to Silvy for the awesome sig!
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    bump for more numbers =)
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Kimmahri - Harshlands wrote: »
    I already chose my path but just passing by to say 600 more pdef will surely turn into much more when you are buffed. So in your opinion Cape Wings of the Cloudcharger with 500 pdef and 10 vit and all is useless uhmmm?



    Are you saying you are gonna go through your heavily AOEd crystal to knockback the CATAS FURTHER AWAY FROM CRYSTAL ROFLMAO

    IG FTW, knock that cata off the crystal, also you dont have to be right next to target to knock it back.

    Mysticarella - Lost City wrote: »

    Wood Mastery:
    Sage:Sage skill increases Wood damage by 25%.
    Demon:Demon version increases critical hit rate by 2%.
    analysis: additional 5% is really good but in "Wood" damage which does not apply to Absorb Soul, 2% crit also really good

    I think each 1% crit is = to 4% damage over time. Something like that. So demon is +1 for that actually.
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    IG FTW, knock that cata off the crystal, also you dont have to be right next to target to knock it back.

    more than enuff reason for culti switch !!!
  • violetvalor
    violetvalor Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I think each 1% crit is = to 4% damage over time. Something like that. So demon is +1 for that actually.

    I disagree with "each 1% crit is = to 4% damage over time".

    Suppose you do x damage and have a p probability to do a critical hit that deals 2x damage. So a 1-p probability to do just the x damage. Then out of some large number of hits, N:
    <x> = [ (1-p)xN + 2pxN ] / N
    = x - px + 2px
    = 1 + px
    = x(1+p)

    Example: a 17% critical rate.
    <x> = x * ( 1 + 17/100)
    = 1.17x

    So a 17% critical hit rate would be a 17% increase to the damage over time.

    But how much effect a single increase of +1% has depends on the current critical hit chance, p. Let the new critical hit chance be p' = p + 0.01. Then
    <x>' / <x> = x(1+p') / x / (1+p)
           = (1 + p + 0.01) / (1+p)

    So in the case of having 17% already and then earning +1%, the improvement is

    (1 + 17/100 + 1/100) / (1 + 17/100) = 1.008547...

    So with a 17% critical rate already, a +1% increase in critical hit rate gives about a 0.8547% increase to the overall damage over time.
  • Vixter - Harshlands
    Vixter - Harshlands Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    taken from the first post:
    Do you really need the extra channeling? What do you need the channeling for? for Nature's Vengeance??? really???
    have you ever though about, i dont know, absorb soul, the skill that takes 5 seconds to cast? hit NV before absorb soul and you will be doing enormous damage, and when you demon spark+rapid growth you can fit in 3x (or more depending on your casting gears) absorb souls within the spark time.
    you'll be pot / cloud eruption dependant
    last time i checked, people (just about everyone no matter the class) use pots in TW like crazy to stay alive. whats wrong with using pots? thats what they're there for.
    Petals CHANCE of extended duraton is nice, but then again its "up to 4 min", people keep thinking you wont have to renew your petals for 4 minutes which is LOL
    you couldnt be more wrong. its additional 4 minutes, meaning falling petals buff lasts 5 minutes, then once hit upon, its 9 seconds of healing. stop bashing demons with your incorrect information.
    Bramble tornado? seriously? 1 more meter?
    actually i prefer 1 meter over the chance of not taking any chi, ijs.

    for sages:
    Sage outshines Demon
    only a hypocrite would say this. i believe they both are good choices depending on the persons play style.
    Gale force is also nicer, so is Thicket, both give you more damage and OHEY what you need for those skills? chi? the kind of chi you get every minute with sage?
    its true that sages get chi easier than demons. but even as a demon, chi is no problem to get at all. sure, demon break in the clouds doesnt have the nice purify that sage has, but it can give extra chi, which when used for that exact reason, fills my chi up pretty darn fast.

    also, demon gale force is nicer now that they tweaked the skill, making demon more likely to seal and paralyze, meaning, less running mobs. you seriously think 3 seconds of slow is good?

    Thicket i would say sage is better in PVE. but in PVP, i think demon is better. in pve you dont have a huge amount of damage reduction on your skills like in pvp. in pvp, an amp on the target can really help finish them off. thats just my opinion though.
    Sage gives you also LESS MANA USAGE
    only skills that reduce mana is comforting mist (which i seem to only use when im with a team and they need party heals, like fc). and the pet summons. sure the pet summons take a good bit of mana, but you dont summon a pet every second like you do with nature vengeance. you seriously wont be using that many less pots than a demon.
    More damage on all skills (starting from Wood Mastery, then Nature's Vengeance, and then Thicket which is SUPPOSED to be our ULTIMATEROFLMAWTFBBQ attack)
    sage wood mastery does increase dmg, true. demon increases crit. i think theyre both good. i always liked my demon wood mastery on my veno though, so if i got it on my mystic i would be just as happy with it.

    last time i checked, demon NV gives the 600 DMG bonus, while sage gives a chance to give chi. so, false information again there to promote your sage-ness, sage NV does not do mroe dmg than demon.

    and i already explained about thicket earlier.
    Verdant Shell gives you more P.Def
    true. cant complain there. although its not a big enough bonus to make me want to be sage. but i cant say i like the demons effect much either, though.
    Sage Energy Leach gives you a longer anti stun
    i think sages is very useful here too, but in some situations where i have used energy leach the speed boost would have helped a lot also (like rushing in TT for example when combo'd with the 79 skill)

    and, ok, im done here now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
    Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character
  • lizrau
    lizrau Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage Sage *Runs out of breath.*



    /endbias
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    Sig credits to Myra :D
  • Kimmahri - Harshlands
    Kimmahri - Harshlands Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »
    you couldnt be more wrong. its additional 4 minutes, meaning falling petals buff lasts 5 minutes, then once hit upon, its 9 seconds of healing. stop bashing demons with your incorrect information.

    Actually I have a demon Mystic with petals. Duration is UP to 5 minutes. I like when people fail at basic reading and thinks "up to" means "fixed". Stop bashing forums with your fail reading skills.
  • Vixter - Harshlands
    Vixter - Harshlands Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Kimmahri - Harshlands wrote: »
    Actually I have a demon Mystic with petals. Duration is UP to 5 minutes. I like when people fail at basic reading and thinks "up to" means "fixed". Stop bashing forums with your fail reading skills.
    my reading skills arent what is fail, it is the fail of the description on the book that indeed says exactly "effect time increased by 4 extra minutes." plus i have never said that i have tested it. also, this doesnt mean that everything else i said is incorrect.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
    Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »
    my reading skills arent what is fail, it is the fail of the description on the book that indeed says exactly "effect time increased by 4 extra minutes." plus i have never said that i have tested it. also, this doesnt mean that everything else i said is incorrect.

    Actually the description is accurate. Skill description is "lasts up to 1 minute", so the demon desription says "the effect is increased by 4 extra minutes", hence effect will last UP to 5 minutes. It doesn't say "effect will always last 5 minutes", like skills from other classes do, so you can't just assume it will last for 5 minutes straight. You can make an argument and say you can assume both conclusions but
    trololololololololol b:cute
  • Vixter - Harshlands
    Vixter - Harshlands Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Actually the description is accurate. Skill description is "lasts up to 1 minute", so the effect is increased by 4 minutes, hence effect will last up to 5 minutes. It doesn't say "effect will always last 5 minutes now", like skills from other classes do.

    trololololololololol b:cute

    so, the fact that i was wrong on one thing makes me a trollolol now? sweet.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
    Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »
    so, the fact that i was wrong on one thing makes me a trollolol now? sweet.

    fail reading skills again.

    trolololololololol

    (btw gz on winnin the egg thingy contest. I checked the others, I like yours better than all the other **** they made, for cereals.)
  • Vixter - Harshlands
    Vixter - Harshlands Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    fail reading skills again.

    trolololololololol

    (btw gz on winnin the egg thingy contest. I checked the others, I like yours better than all the other **** they made, for cereals.)

    sure ...

    if trololol =/= troll, then idk wth you are doing there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
    Peachie (102 Mystic) ~ Main character
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Kimmahri - Harshlands wrote: »
    Actually I have a demon Mystic with petals. Duration is UP to 5 minutes. I like when people fail at basic reading and thinks "up to" means "fixed". Stop bashing forums with your fail reading skills.

    I like when people fail at basic English and bash others for their literacy skills. Stop bashing the forums with your fail typing skills. lol
    But on a serious note, there's too much hostility on these forums when all people have to do is state their own opinions or facts in a respectable manner, and in doing so, people are more likely to regard what they say as opposed to reading a post like this.

    And Arch seems to have stopped talking about pros for sage, and is only talking about demon "cons", the only one he's still hiding behind is petals, which I don't really see how matters on a skill with such a small cooldown except for TW. The sage effect isn't that great either, js. But atm all he's doing is instigating flame wars for his own amusement(troll). I think it's best if everyone just ignores his posts like Mizuoni started doing so this thread can die. >.>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mayatheia - Heavens Tear
    Mayatheia - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Tbh ive never seen such a war between demon/sage for one of the classes as i see for Mystic. Its quite hilarious. I also started to ignore ppl posting around not their own opinion but only bashing on the others decisions over sage/demon .
    Its already been said both are good depending on your playing style. U cant decide which way to go? Grab a paper, write down all the skills, add the demon / sage bonuses then start scoring which one you like on a scale from 1 to 3 depending on ur playing style/preferences . Sum up the points. If theres a draw, pick a coin and flip it. If you still cant decide or dont have a coin, think about what demon means and what sage means. Are you with the good guys or the bad guys? If you still cant make up ur mind, uninstall, this game is not for u.
    b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    When people walk away from you, let them go... your destiny is never tied to anyone who leaves you.. and it doesn't mean they are bad people.. It just means that their part in your story is over...
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    You should go read the wizard or archer forums.

    Edit: Sage ftw
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Mayatheia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Tbh ive never seen such a war between demon/sage for one of the classes as i see for Mystic. Its quite hilarious. I also started to ignore ppl posting around not their own opinion but only bashing on the others decisions over sage/demon .
    Its already been said both are good depending on your playing style. U cant decide which way to go? Grab a paper, write down all the skills, add the demon / sage bonuses then start scoring which one you like on a scale from 1 to 3 depending on ur playing style/preferences . Sum up the points. If theres a draw, pick a coin and flip it. If you still cant decide or dont have a coin, think about what demon means and what sage means. Are you with the good guys or the bad guys? If you still cant make up ur mind, uninstall, this game is not for u.
    b:bye

    I Agree, that what I said before, it depends on each person and playstyle. I actually did that 3 times, put on paper every skill, compare pros and cons, put some numbers on it..and Demon always was the best overall. Im a demon mystic and I dont regret my choice. What makes me mad is everytime sage mystics keep asking me why am I a demon. Like I have to justify and explain step by step the advantages for "ME". They dont see to understand that is a personal choice, or maybe they are trying to justify their wrong choice b:b:chuckle...just kidding....
  • Iseria - Harshlands
    Iseria - Harshlands Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Mysticarella - Lost City wrote: »
    I Agree, that what I said before, it depends on each person and playstyle. I actually did that 3 times, put on paper every skill, compare pros and cons, put some numbers on it..and Demon always was the best overall. Im a demon mystic and I dont regret my choice. What makes me mad is everytime sage mystics keep asking me why am I a demon. Like I have to justify and explain step by step the advantages for "ME". They dont see to understand that is a personal choice, or maybe they are trying to justify their wrong choice b:b:chuckle...just kidding....

    well ur no fun

    let me try this:

    whichever path you choose, u'll fail.

    /end thread
  • Mugler - Lost City
    Mugler - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    For me demon looks more fun. But why ecatomb show only half demon/sage skills of mystic? Not all skills have demon/sage?
  • yordravia
    yordravia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Anyone here really tried Demon Pettals? The time is increased BY or UP to 4 minutes?
    Mugler - Lost City wrote: »
    Not all skills have demon/sage?
    Yes, it happens with all the other classes too.
  • Dalesr - Harshlands
    Dalesr - Harshlands Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    bumpppppppp
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    yordravia wrote: »
    Anyone here really tried Demon Pettals? The time is increased BY or UP to 4 minutes?

    Yes, it happens with all the other classes too.

    Yes it is additional 4 min = 5min duration.
    Yesterday I enter room 32 on cube (Bored - 5min pk room), and I buffed petals, by the time I got the dice I still had the buffb:dirty
  • Kimmahri - Harshlands
    Kimmahri - Harshlands Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Mysticarella - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes it is additional 4 min = 5min duration.
    Yesterday I enter room 32 on cube (Bored - 5min pk room), and I buffed petals, by the time I got the dice I still had the buffb:dirty

    Explain to me then why my buff wore off after 30 secs of putting it in safe zone?
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Kimmahri - Harshlands wrote: »
    Explain to me then why my buff wore off after 30 secs of putting it in safe zone?

    wow, thats odd..normal time is 1 min, demon is 5 min....you getting 30secs??? Bug!!1b:sad
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Kimmahri - Harshlands wrote: »
    Explain to me then why my buff wore off after 30 secs of putting it in safe zone?

    I don't know hmm..cause the game hates idiots like you.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze

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