Sage and Demon (Yes this again)
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people actually still play archers? ;oI don't care how old or young you are, how small your **** is, how much of a nerd irl you are or how depressed you are that you never will get laid. There is no reason to act like an A-hole to everyone on an mmorpg. Its a shame that I have to take time out of my day to tell people "stop being an A-hole". So I end with this, if your acting like an A-hole, and some one tells you your being an A-hole chances are your being an A-hole.0
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Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »people actually still play archers? ;o
Yes they do , cause they are pro , admit it b:angry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
<--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
{That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue0 -
I love Sage Blazing and passives better, I'm definitely going Sage on my Archer. (: I never PVP, so I don't really care about more crits or aps... Too overrated.0
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Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »You never pvp so you should care more about APS
I thought Sage was more PVE based and Demon was for PVP?
Sorry noob here b:surrender0 -
I thought Sage was more PVE based and Demon was for PVP?
Sorry noob here b:surrender
No, it's not that simple. They both have their strong points for either scenario. The "sage if you're rich and demon if you're not so rich" is a better oversimplification. It comes down to play style also.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »people actually still play archers? ;o
You still suck
Like i have said before.. Demon spark is smexi compare to Sage.
If your worry about money and getting all gear/skills. Demon archer with a rank8 (80 dollars?) with a decent refine bow +7-10 can do much better than a Sage one with equal gear.
For the simple fact that Demon spark gives you better damage, also you will use "immune pots or anti stun etc.." The reduce damage become useless. Wings of Grace =/= Any "sage reduction".
Another point would be going "fist", Like most have say it. Its probably cheaper to go 5.0 as demon. Even if "sage" does higher damage at 5.0.. Do you really care how much you hit with fist or farm so you can get a better bow/gear ? :S
P.s. Once you hit 100 be ready to reroll as a sin b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »You never pvp so you should care more about APS
Why? I kill all (non-instance) mobs with the good old Frost-Normal-Knockback combo in matter of seconds. Why should I want APS if mobs can't even touch me? For FCC? IDC about that one. If the arrogant APS freaks don't like my damage, they can kick me out of squad anytime. But I only go with friends / faction (95% of the time), and they really don't care about APS and gear. We are not in a hurry, we just want to have fun together. I'd rather finish FCC / Nirvana slower than go with rude people who rush all the time. 0 -
Why? I kill all (non-instance) mobs with the good old Frost-Normal-Knockback combo in matter of seconds. Why should I want APS if mobs can't even touch me?
APS is obviously useless there, and if you go with 5aps that seems to be useful on some bosses and tough elites (and this assumes you can survive any aggro you pull).
But they are gradually introducing tougher opponents. Some of my contract quests, nowadays, have me fighting level 108+ opponents. And reduced attack interval gear can be a plausibly good way of killing such things fast enough.
And we have not seen the "content" part of the genesis expansion yet.0 -
Is there a thread that doesn't say sage or demon is bad, but explains the pros and cons of each? I was thinking of going demon but now I'm stuck in between. Every argument I find is just saying that sage sucks, go demon0
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Is there a thread that doesn't say sage or demon is bad, but explains the pros and cons of each? I was thinking of going demon but now I'm stuck in between. Every argument I find is just saying that sage sucks, go demon
Haha exactly what I was thinking so I made this thread.. >.<0 -
b:chuckle SAGE Archer here, and i love it b:pleased
The only BIG plus i see for demon is that they do more DPS when fighting against a boss.. BUT a Sage Archer make more DPH ^^ + hits further ^^ (others skill cant be compared like say demon skill is better then that sage skill, cause every has its own benefits depending from the situation (well for the most skills, some really sucks at sage while too good in demon XD -> Quickshot))0 -
Is there a thread that doesn't say sage or demon is bad, but explains the pros and cons of each? I was thinking of going demon but now I'm stuck in between. Every argument I find is just saying that sage sucks, go demon
You probably aren't reading enough. I would never say sage sucks and I think most archers who know what they're talking about wouldn't either.
And as a side note I am a demon archer.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
I know I probably over exaggerated a bit. But unless I'm not looking hard enough, there aren't many sage archer guides out there. I want to at least see someone with that kind of guide to see what they have to say about sage archers0
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I know I probably over exaggerated a bit. But unless I'm not looking hard enough, there aren't many sage archer guides out there. I want to at least see someone with that kind of guide to see what they have to say about sage archers
I am exaggerating a small bit, but there is some fairness in saying: if you need a guide, go demon.
I am a sage archer, and I am quite happy with my cultivation choice (except that my fairy has turned blue now, when i wanted a white fairy). But I have a lot to learn still. Then again, a lot of the things I would put in a guide would apply to demon also, and to other classes... it's how you look at combat, simple trivial stuff that would take pages to adequately describe.
But here is a short form:
Demons have a slightly lower base and peak dps than sages, but demons have significantly higher mid-range dps averages, when they get their procs going.
Anyways, I think what you really need is for someone to go both sage and demon, to be good playing both, to play both with economy gear and with high-end gear, and then to write up their experiences with both, in terms of which kinds of situations they did well in, and to maintain an ongoing guide to keep up on new things they learn. And I do not think anyone has enough energy to for that.0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »Anyways, I think what you really need is for someone to go both sage and demon, to be good playing both, to play both with economy gear and with high-end gear, and then to write up their experiences with both, in terms of which kinds of situations they did well in, and to maintain an ongoing guide to keep up on new things they learn. And I do not think anyone has enough energy to for that.
Thanks. I think I'll try that, but it will be a while. I'll see what I can do0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »I am exaggerating a small bit, but there is some fairness in saying: if you need a guide, go demon.
I am a sage archer, and I am quite happy with my cultivation choice (except that my fairy has turned blue now, when i wanted a white fairy). But I have a lot to learn still. Then again, a lot of the things I would put in a guide would apply to demon also, and to other classes... it's how you look at combat, simple trivial stuff that would take pages to adequately describe.
But here is a short form:
Demons have a slightly lower base and peak dps than sages, but demons have significantly higher mid-range dps averages, when they get their procs going.
Anyways, I think what you really need is for someone to go both sage and demon, to be good playing both, to play both with economy gear and with high-end gear, and then to write up their experiences with both, in terms of which kinds of situations they did well in, and to maintain an ongoing guide to keep up on new things they learn. And I do not think anyone has enough energy to for that.
TigerLily went from Sage to Demon as soon as it was accessible. Feel free to ask her, but im pretty sure.. That she will say both are good.
Demon QS is godly.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
I still think sage better for TW due to constant higher damage, while demon for 1v1 PK, especially against BMs and barb where you need to deal a large amount of damage in a short amount of time0
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Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »I still think sage better for TW due to constant higher damage, while demon for 1v1 PK, especially against BMs and barb where you need to deal a large amount of damage in a short amount of time
Nothing like missing that Thundershock or Lightning strike b:bye
At least demon has a lower chance to miss the last blow, even though.. Why would archers be focusing heavy classes, Thats a mage job. Your meant to kill robes.
Bm In tw.. 80% of the time have magic narrow.. (Unless their baddies and use pdef one.. Which i seen) Anyways.. Normal shoot would do faster damage than spaming skills against Narrow.
Focus barbs in tw as archer ? b:shutup
Again QS does a better job at dealing fast damage to a target.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
Input in this is so helpful.
b:victory
Makes me whine that I might miss out on great passives for Sage, but after reading, Demon it is! b:pleased0 -
I think I'll go sage for now. Thanks for all the help b:laugh0
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I know I probably over exaggerated a bit. But unless I'm not looking hard enough, there aren't many sage archer guides out there. I want to at least see someone with that kind of guide to see what they have to say about sage archers
These are outdated but are from a really good sage archer and still apply to modern archers.
One Two Three Four
You can also check out this 46 page thread which contains various opinions on culti. Unfortunately most of the good discussion is early in the thread and is over two years old but it still applies in many ways as the basics of an archer has never changed. You can check the later pages for more current discussion but I wouldn't consider it of sufficient quality.
In my opinion cultivation choice is really overrated now. It used to be that cultivation had such a huge effect on an archer it was worth making an informed decision on but that was when hh99 was considered amazing. Gear has become so exaggerated literally one piece of armor can have a greater effect than an entire cultivation's bonuses. The impact of cultivation has been so diluted you can pull off pretty much any build and as long as you have the gear the losses become negligible.0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »These are outdated but are from a really good sage archer and still apply to modern archers.
One Two Three Four
You can also check out this 46 page thread which contains various opinions on culti. Unfortunately most of the good discussion is early in the thread and is over two years old but it still applies in many ways as the basics of an archer has never changed. You can check the later pages for more current discussion but I wouldn't consider it of sufficient quality.
I will of course accept your judgement that TigerLily was a good sage archer.
However, I do not see her even discussing some of the best sage skills and sage skill combos. (I do see her mentioning sage barrage, but even there I do not see her giving vacuity powder any credit.)
So, like, personally, I decided in 2008 that I was going to go sage and that I was going to get myself a soul crusher, and up until December of last year that was working well enough for me. (And by "well enough" I mean that I was waffling about nirvana -- I think nirvana weapons defeat planning, or cost a lot, so I was dragging my feet about how I wanted to approach getting them -- and my TT crossbow seemed to be good enough that I could get away with that.)
I still carry and sometimes even use that soul crusher, because sometimes the extra range is just that good (and because some of my outfits are green or go good with green).
ANYways, people that need a guide should probably go with stuff the guides mostly recommend. But, based in part on my experiences when I was a +5 sage archer fighting +10 demon archers (and others) in TW, I totally disagree with your rants about sage having had no benefits for archers in the bad old days.0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »I still carry and sometimes even use that soul crusher, because sometimes the extra range is just that good (and because some of my outfits are green or go good with green).
ANYways, people that need a guide should probably go with stuff the guides mostly recommend. But, based in part on my experiences when I was a +5 sage archer fighting +10 demon archers (and others) in TW, I totally disagree with your rants about sage having had no benefits for archers in the bad old days.
In tw.. I really doubt a +5 green weapon helped more than a +10 Weapon. <Add class>
Tw was good for sages when genies didnt exist.. cause they can easily keep up with getting chi and droping barrage. Now a days, You can just use your genie and get instant spark for it.
Demon barrage is WAY better than sage barrage. For the simple fact that the damage increases by ALOT with more interval.
The range on the weapon is Null in TW and Massive PVP. TW.. You will be 2 steps away from the "other sage" Once a mage drops an ulti to your friend, your pretty much gone too. Massive PVP Range?... Nowadays everyone pk on sins or theres a sin, Your range is null cause of them. Lets Pretend theres no sins, Even if your "2 steps/meters" away. Theres always gonna be a random archer/Nix/Class that will hit you from above/bottom or behind. The range is really nothing in massive PVP.
In 1v1 range mite be helpful against classes like mage, psy etc.. that require shorter range for some of their skills. But even if you "aim low" from max range.. Mage would shrink away.. etc.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
ANYways, people that need a guide should probably go with stuff the guides mostly recommend. But, based in part on my experiences when I was a +5 sage archer fighting +10 demon archers (and others) in TW, I totally disagree with your rants about sage having had no benefits for archers in the bad old days.
You can fight anyone you want. Hell... go out right now and try to pk a +12 demon archer for all that matters. The problem is... will you even tick his charm before he drops you.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »In tw.. I really doubt a +5 green weapon helped more than a +10 Weapon. <Add class>
Tw was good for sages when genies didnt exist.. cause they can easily keep up with getting chi and droping barrage. Now a days, You can just use your genie and get instant spark for it.
Demon barrage is WAY better than sage barrage. For the simple fact that the damage increases by ALOT with more interval.
The range on the weapon is Null in TW and Massive PVP. TW.. You will be 2 steps away from the "other sage" Once a mage drops an ulti to your friend, your pretty much gone too. Massive PVP Range?... Nowadays everyone pk on sins or theres a sin, Your range is null cause of them. Lets Pretend theres no sins, Even if your "2 steps/meters" away. Theres always gonna be a random archer/Nix/Class that will hit you from above/bottom or behind. The range is really nothing in massive PVP.
In 1v1 range mite be helpful against classes like mage, psy etc.. that require shorter range for some of their skills. But even if you "aim low" from max range.. Mage would shrink away.. etc.
Say WHAT now? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
For one, barrage is channeled. Therefore, it's a set time delay per iteration. 3 arrows/3seconds, 2.5 seconds for demon. You could be -3.00 interval and it would be the same exact damage for barrage. Also, if you have every piece of -int gear possible, even if interval DID effect barrage, you aren't sparked when you barrage, so you're at an identical APS ANYWAY when you're using it. Or maybe single or double sparked, but most likely not triple sparked.
So... I'm going away from this now... Makes no sense what you just said.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »In tw.. I really doubt a +5 green weapon helped more than a +10 Weapon. <Add class>
Ok, but I was able to solo kill most archers I met in TW (Asterelle being the exception). Of course, I died to them also, especially when I messed up and let several people gang up on me. But I think I did ok.KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »The range on the weapon is Null in TW and Massive PVP. TW.. You will be 2 steps away from the "other sage" Once a mage drops an ulti to your friend, your pretty much gone too.
Yes, I keep hearing how useless it is. And, since the range advantage can be especially effective when people have no clue whats happening I think I like how you think.KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »But even if you "aim low" from max range.. Mage would shrink away.. etc.
Yes... sages get a 4.5 second stun... but yes, back when I just had my green crossbow, well geared mages were a problem for me, except when I had a squad backing me up, and they would often get away (though not if my crossbow proc'd).0 -
Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »Say WHAT now? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
For one, barrage is channeled. Therefore, it's a set time delay per iteration. 3 arrows/3seconds, 2.5 seconds for demon. You could be -3.00 interval and it would be the same exact damage for barrage. Also, if you have every piece of -int gear possible, even if interval DID effect barrage, you aren't sparked when you barrage, so you're at an identical APS ANYWAY when you're using it. Or maybe single or double sparked, but most likely not triple sparked.
It actually hits faster.
I Just test it out, It does hit at 2.5sec no matter interval. I thought it was different, I tried on a target n it was around 5 hits every 10 seconds.
Still It would hit more than sage.
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »Ok, but I was able to solo kill most archers I met in TW (Asterelle being the exception). Of course, I died to them also, especially when I messed up and let several people gang up on me. But I think I did ok.
Yes, I keep hearing how useless it is. And, since the range advantage can be especially effective when people have no clue whats happening I think I like how you think.
Yes... sages get a 4.5 second stun... but yes, back when I just had my green crossbow, well geared mages were a problem for me, except when I had a squad backing me up, and they would often get away (though not if my crossbow proc'd).
In tw kills/deaths dont matter.. You can pew pew anyone from the sides and they wont notice, I done it many times. Its also laggy and people wont have time to react as in open PVP. Tw is like the worst moment to show off that you kill people cause of range.
The range is useful from time to time, Like aimlow a bm before they get to close.. but still most classes have a way to get close to you or away. The range shouldnt be a factor of why you pick sage/demon. Range is pretty much useless if you compare it to atack speed. I had rather hit faster than have 2 meters. Quickshots will always shine against heaven.
4.5 Stun can be useful but most of the time, you wont even notice that second. Its almost nothing.
P.s. Use Faith + White genie first skill. Thats all you need to max your range or dont get caught up to easy.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0
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