Sage and Demon (Yes this again)

silver02

Hello, Im turning 89 soon and I just can't seem to decide which one I should pick. I've looked at the skills and benefits of each one and heres how I see it.

Sage:
Cheaper skills(?)
Longer Stuns
Longer Range
More Damage for Normal Attacks
Blazing Arrow gives more Fire Damage
STA takes off more hp

Demon:
More Damage casting BoA
Demon Spark b:dirty
Demon QS
Can Have 5 APS
Lightning Strike can't miss

Im torn between the two because I personally use just regular stunning arrow and STA often and I just reg attack most of the time, no matter what I do. And yet with demon I see more damage output per small amount of time given. What does defense matter when you hit "1..1..1.." I don't have much money ingame which makes Sage a viable option for me (If what I hear is right that Sage skills are cheaper). Also, the faction I am in is currently involved in TW. I want to be able to have 5 APS soon but is 5 APS worth it for an archer?

Persuasion on either side needed b:puzzled All help or advice is much appreciated. Thank you.

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

Sage skills suck butt, demon skills make archer worth a bit more playing. Since all endgame is all about aps, you might wanna go demon for cheaper 5 aps. You can still get 5 base aps with Sage. Sage would kinda have better damage with blazing arrow. Demon is stronger if you spam blazing arrow, but the cast time is far to long.

So Demon is just for cheaper damage. Sage give a tad more damage and better farming capabilities.

grimreaperhc

ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sage skills suck butt

I lol'd. Archer =/= BM.

eyehaveyou

silver02 wrote: »

Hello, Im turning 89 soon and I just can't seem to decide which one I should pick. I've looked at the skills and benefits of each one and heres how I see it.

Sage:
Cheaper skills(?) u need same amount of tokens for sage as for demon/ old book pages / page of fate so no actually they r not cheaper, can be more expensive instead since most archers r demon u will have to take a lot of attempts to get the skill u want, as demon u can just buy it easier

Longer Stuns (only 1 sec difference no big deal )

Longer Range ( the only nice part of sage archer )

More Damage for Normal Attacks ( well u would do more dmg with more % crit since most part of ur dmg comes from ur dex )

Blazing Arrow gives more Fire Damage ( not true, demon blazing arrow gives u 120 % extra damage for 20 secs. if u use blazing arrow -> demon spark -> stunning arrow or STA ur dmg will skyrocket)

STA takes off more hp get ur lvl 100 skill and it will take off 18 %, sage takes of 20 % is 2% really worth it to go sage?

Demon:
More Damage casting BoA correct + insanely high mp consume
Demon Spark b:dirty i love it b:dirty
Demon QS i love it b:dirty
Can Have 5 APS sage can have 5 aps too but its more expensive if u go sage
Lightning Strike can't miss i love it b:dirty

Im torn between the two because I personally use just regular stunning arrow and STA often and I just reg attack most of the time, no matter what I do. And yet with demon I see more damage output per small amount of time given. What does defense matter when you hit "1..1..1.." I don't have much money ingame which makes Sage a viable option for me (If what I hear is right that Sage skills are cheaper). Also, the faction I am in is currently involved in TW. I want to be able to have 5 APS soon but is 5 APS worth it for an archer?

Persuasion on either side needed b:puzzled All help or advice is much appreciated. Thank you.

/answers in red + new smileys

Sint - Harshlands

demon for the reasons you listed, except for lightning (because the cooldown sucks) instead i do love demon metal debuff and demon wingspan, wich you didnt mention.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sage skills suck butt, demon skills make archer worth a bit more playing. Since all endgame is all about aps, you might wanna go demon for cheaper 5 aps. You can still get 5 base aps with Sage. Sage would kinda have better damage with blazing arrow. Demon is stronger if you spam blazing arrow, but the cast time is far to long.

So Demon is just for cheaper damage. Sage give a tad more damage and better farming capabilities.

Sage skills do not suck butt. I am a demon archer myself but I seriously considered sage when the decision was still to be made. Sage skills tend to hit a lot harder and are better in terms of raw DPH and survivability. Demon skills tend to have better crit (spike) with less base damage, and of course attack speed which would help the crits proc. This was back in the days before 5 aps. After 5 aps was available, sage 5 aps archers do better dps, at the cost of being much more expensive. It really depends on your budget: whether you'd be able to afford the gear that makes sage archers so dangerous.

Demon archers have the advantage of being effective with cheaper gear.

What made me decide on demon at the time was back in those days only 3 skills were easily obtainable (the three that drop in fb89 instances) and I preferred the demon versions of those. Now all the skills are available, so my reason is no longer valid.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Sage can have 5.0 too

silver02

Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it. b:victory

Another question:
What was the big +1 that made you choose sage/demon?

EDIT: Oh and is Demon cheaper in general?
(The part about expensive skills but does better with cheap gear confuses me)

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Well... Some perspective.

I did TW against a faction with a Sage archer in it. He is undoubtedly one of the best Sage Archers on our server, if not the best. He quite simply was able to kill our Demon archers before they even got into range to even hit him. He pretty much ignored our sins. Our BM's couldn't really do much against him. And I was a 'Tab' 'Autoattack' giblet for him, though I did manage to stun him once, which enabled a cleric to spark + cloud eruption + tempest him and 2 sins in oneshot.

He's an absolute beast. He's apparently got R8, I don't know on the refines. But... He's effective, and caused us to start a suppression squad just for him. b:chuckle Also should mention, I believe I heard he is 4.0.

So... Saying a Sage Archer is fail is... not true. He was oneshotting our barbs for the most part. There's another R8 Sage Archer on Sanct who is also considered to be a scary ****, though no info on that one.

Comparing the number of Fail demon archers to the number of Fail Sage archers... I think you'll find a higher percentage of fail demon archers. b:bye

Ilyrec - Archosaur

the big + for sage:

Range. 2 meters can make a diference, though that can be countered by the 88 xbow.

Take aim: tats a lot of weap dmg @_@

Sage spark- good if you like to tank, like Chezedude.

The cute fairy thing


+ for demon

Quickshot. 50% to increase attack rate, would ya look at that. Makes you go from giant machine gun to giant machine gun on steroids

All the demon skills that give you crit

Demon wingspan - casts level 5 winged shell. Allows you to tank friggen barbs, and nukers.

SPARK SPARK SPARK SPARK SPARK

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Ilyrec - Archosaur wrote: »

the big + for sage:

Range. 2 meters can make a diference, though that can be countered by the 88 xbow.

Take aim: tats a lot of weap dmg @_@

Sage spark- good if you like to tank, like Chezedude.

The cute fairy thing


+ for demon

Quickshot. 50% to increase attack rate, would ya look at that. Makes you go from giant machine gun to giant machine gun on steroids

All the demon skills that give you crit

Demon wingspan - casts level 5 winged shell. Allows you to tank friggen barbs, and nukers.

SPARK SPARK SPARK SPARK SPARK

Why not use Windcatcher on a Sage Archer? I also recall seeing some other weapons that gave +2 meters to range, not just Windcatcher, I belive a TT bow and some TT crossbows do as well.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

He's an absolute beast. He's apparently got R8, I don't know on the refines. But... He's effective, and caused us to start a suppression squad just for him. b:chuckle Also should mention, I believe I heard he is 4.0.

So... Saying a Sage Archer is fail is... not true. He was oneshotting our barbs for the most part. There's another R8 Sage Archer on Sanct who is also considered to be a scary ****, though no info on that one.

oh god... i really hope this is at least 5 months old.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why not use Windcatcher on a Sage Archer? I also recall seeing some other weapons that gave +2 meters to range, not just Windcatcher, I belive a TT bow and some TT crossbows do as well.

No archer... demon or sage should ever use windcatcher or any other +range weapon.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well... Some perspective.

I did TW against a faction with a Sage archer in it. He is undoubtedly one of the best Sage Archers on our server, if not the best. He quite simply was able to kill our Demon archers before they even got into range to even hit him. He pretty much ignored our sins. Our BM's couldn't really do much against him. And I was a 'Tab' 'Autoattack' giblet for him, though I did manage to stun him once, which enabled a cleric to spark + cloud eruption + tempest him and 2 sins in oneshot.

He's an absolute beast. He's apparently got R8, I don't know on the refines. But... He's effective, and caused us to start a suppression squad just for him. b:chuckle Also should mention, I believe I heard he is 4.0.

So... Saying a Sage Archer is fail is... not true. He was oneshotting our barbs for the most part. There's another R8 Sage Archer on Sanct who is also considered to be a scary ****, though no info on that one.

Comparing the number of Fail demon archers to the number of Fail Sage archers... I think you'll find a higher percentage of fail demon archers. b:bye

I don't quite think you have the perspective at 82 to judge cultivation. If you are a one shot to a rank 8 sage archer, imagine what you are to the two dozen or so rank 9 archers on the server.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

silver02 wrote: »

Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it. b:victory

Another question:
What was the big +1 that made you choose sage/demon?

EDIT: Oh and is Demon cheaper in general?
(The part about expensive skills but does better with cheap gear confuses me)

Sorry I may have been too verbose.

What I meant is demon archers are cheaper to gear up when it comes to achieving 5.0aps because demon spark provides you with free attack speed. In my opinion they are also more effective with mediocre gear than a sage archer because of the crit boosts.

However if you have deep pockets the sage archer will probably be stronger in terms of DPH (Damage per HIT, not damage per second) and survivability. They will have better dps at 5.0 (but remember you have to spend extra money to get it because you won't be getting the attack speed from spark). The reason is a lot of sage skills benefit more from better gear whereas demon skills give you crit.

Ilyrec - Archosaur

Yeh thats what I just tell most people who ask.

Got cash? Go sage.

Don't got cash? Go demon.

truekossy

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

However if you have deep pockets the sage archer will probably be stronger in terms of DPH (Damage per HIT, not damage per second) and survivability. They will have better dps at 5.0 (but remember you have to spend extra money to get it because you won't be getting the attack speed from spark). The reason is a lot of sage skills benefit more from better gear whereas demon skills give you crit.

Of course, the drawback to this for sage is you'll have less room to play around with your gears while trying to be 5.0. So a demon could, in essence, play around with ornaments, cape, armor, etc for better survivability from their gear itself while a sage would be kinda limited in what they'd be able to go without.

Granted, archers are basically the weakest 5.0s so you won't have aggro enough to worry about survivability, and if you're rich enough to make sage truly shine then odds are you're at a point where culti doesn't matter anyways so... yeah. b:avoid

Ilyrec - Archosaur

Three main types of cultivation in PWI.

Aware of Myriad

Aware of Void

Aware of Money

o.o

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No archer... demon or sage should ever use windcatcher or any other +range weapon.

b:chuckle

I know a situation where my +5 soul crusher with sage winged blessing seems to be faster than a +12 rank 9 bow.

Though, granted, there are very very few situations where that holds, and you can generally make do without. But its not always about dps.

Ilyrec - Archosaur

Archers are not meant for dps. Their meant for looking pretty b:chuckle

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:chuckle

I know a situation where my +5 soul crusher with sage winged blessing seems to be faster than a +12 rank 9 bow.

Though, granted, there are very very few situations where that holds, and you can generally make do without. But its not always about dps.

Really now... come over with your soul crusher anytime and i'll make sure to smack some sense in to you with my non +12 r9 bow.

Ilyrec - Archosaur

Bah, you don't see many archers fighting against each other now adays. We're getting a bit rare, don wanna drive each other to extinction, now, eh?

@Kiyoshi - omg hi Aesthor just reccomended me to read your posts. o.o they're supposed to entertain me.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

truekossy wrote: »

Of course, the drawback to this for sage is you'll have less room to play around with your gears while trying to be 5.0. So a demon could, in essence, play around with ornaments, cape, armor, etc for better survivability from their gear itself while a sage would be kinda limited in what they'd be able to go without.

Granted, archers are basically the weakest 5.0s so you won't have aggro enough to worry about survivability, and if you're rich enough to make sage truly shine then odds are you're at a point where culti doesn't matter anyways so... yeah. b:avoid

I am not too picky about the ornaments because I take them all off for TW anyways, but that is a good point. Sage has a better blazing arrow too :P.

Ilyrec - Don't tell him that I'm stalking his posts!

Ilyrec - Archosaur

I am not here

truekossy

Ilyrec - Archosaur wrote: »

Three main types of cultivation in PWI.

Aware of Myriad

Aware of Void

Aware of Money

o.o

Ilyrec - Archosaur wrote: »

Archers are not meant for dps. Their meant for looking pretty b:chuckle

These statements are true.

Ilyrec - Archosaur wrote: »

I am not here

This statement is false. *pokes with stick*

Ilyrec - Archosaur

*miss* Thats what archers are for, too. Whenever someone uses the "slap" emote on me, I always say that :DDDD

BTW, I am not here o.o Seriously. >_>

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't quite think you have the perspective at 82 to judge cultivation. If you are a one shot to a rank 8 sage archer, imagine what you are to the two dozen or so rank 9 archers on the server.

I was comparing a Rank 8 Sage archer to Rank 8 Demon archers. QQ.

I'm not going to ever go R9, because that's a ridiculous amount of money. R8 will be about the top of the line for me, and if I get R9, I will have farmed it.

An R9 archer friend of mine with +10 refines can tank TT3-x and solo TT2-2 and lower. If i was going to drop the coin on R9, I'd go all out, skip the bow (that's kinda ugly), and go Warsoul, R9 armor + G15 leggings, have more attack level, more DPS, and have spent more than my car is worth.

But, I'm not going to do that, I'll probably go with moderately refined R8, as well as a +2 meter range bow/crossbow, and some -int gear that I can farm/buy with in-game coins.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was comparing a Rank 8 Sage archer to Rank 8 Demon archers. QQ.

I'm not going to ever go R9, because that's a ridiculous amount of money. R8 will be about the top of the line for me, and if I get R9, I will have farmed it.

An R9 archer friend of mine with +10 refines can tank TT3-x and solo TT2-2 and lower. If i was going to drop the coin on R9, I'd go all out, skip the bow (that's kinda ugly), and go Warsoul, R9 armor + G15 leggings, have more attack level, more DPS, and have spent more than my car is worth.

But, I'm not going to do that, I'll probably go with moderately refined R8, as well as a +2 meter range bow/crossbow, and some -int gear that I can farm/buy with in-game coins.

*cries in despair*

Edit: I do not think that everything you wrote here was bad, and I do not want to descend into snark, but... rank 9 has been cheaper than full +10 refines have been (though full +10 refines have been relatively cheap sometimes, also), while warsoul has always been hugely expensive. Meanwhile full rank 9 gear gives you exactly the same number of attack levels that warsoul weapon gives you with five pieces of rank 9 armor (or even with four pieces of rank 9 armor, since the fifth piece's bonus would be a defensive bonus). So you have, in essence, described climbing a steep cliff instead of a hill, so that you can get higher when your goal was no higher than the easier route.

silver02

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well... Some perspective.

I did TW against a faction with a Sage archer in it. He is undoubtedly one of the best Sage Archers on our server, if not the best. He quite simply was able to kill our Demon archers before they even got into range to even hit him. He pretty much ignored our sins. Our BM's couldn't really do much against him. And I was a 'Tab' 'Autoattack' giblet for him, though I did manage to stun him once, which enabled a cleric to spark + cloud eruption + tempest him and 2 sins in oneshot.

He's an absolute beast. He's apparently got R8, I don't know on the refines. But... He's effective, and caused us to start a suppression squad just for him. b:chuckle Also should mention, I believe I heard he is 4.0.

I actually know said above person...
That's what made me think about what my choice is because he LOVES to tank bosses.
When I do see him do some dungeons for me or he helps.. I'm just amazed that he was actually Sage...then again he IS rich so he has the funds to supply himself.

EDIT:Oh while I'm here, is STA decent in TW? I use it as a multi-shot like the other AOE lightning skill and BoA.

Yay for the input guys! b:pleased

grimreaperhc

silver02 wrote: »

EDIT:Oh while I'm here, is STA decent in TW?

Assume that STA is one of your main skills. You will need it almost everywhere!

EDIT : I hate when I click on the wrong colour for my font... Too lazy to change it b:cry

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

I love STA in TW. As a demon I get a 10% crit boost from it too

truekossy

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was comparing a Rank 8 Sage archer to Rank 8 Demon archers. QQ.

I'm not going to ever go R9, because that's a ridiculous amount of money. R8 will be about the top of the line for me, and if I get R9, I will have farmed it.

An R9 archer friend of mine with +10 refines can tank TT3-x and solo TT2-2 and lower. If i was going to drop the coin on R9, I'd go all out, skip the bow (that's kinda ugly), and go Warsoul, R9 armor + G15 leggings, have more attack level, more DPS, and have spent more than my car is worth.

But, I'm not going to do that, I'll probably go with moderately refined R8, as well as a +2 meter range bow/crossbow, and some -int gear that I can farm/buy with in-game coins.

.... facepalm.jpg