I take issue with PWI and TW bidding

truekossy wrote: »

#1: You say that... yet most of your responses are showing otherwise. For example, when WnbTank said "you", he was speaking in general and not speaking as if it were directly yourself. Basic reading comprehension would have made that clear. Yet in your response, you took it as a personal attack on your own posts. That example is one of many that signifies that, even if you are reading, you aren't understanding.

WnbTank was replying to me, and even at the points where, within his post, his use of "you" may have been general, my response to him was not a rebuttal. I thanked him for trying to explain TW and at the same time explained to him my position. Simple and unoffensive toward him. Nothing that would indicate that I took it as a personal attack... because I did not. YOU did not understand my response to him, ergo, you are the one with a problem understanding what is written or else you are just looking for things to accuse or attack me for.

truekossy wrote: »

#2: That's a logical fallacy. And besides, as has been mentioned, at higher levels there are much better ways for a faction to gain coin. Heck, running a mat route and selling those can get you more coin in less time than plain mob grinding. I can spend an hour grinding on a level 7X char and not feel that the coin that character has earned is a lot or significant in any way because, frankly, it's neither. If you've managed to save up 50 mil, will you honestly consider 150k out of it (which is less than 1% of those savings) to be a lot? Perhaps you just think in different terms than the rest of us but we certainly don't agree on that point. Again, there's also the fact that you're still talking about the efforts of an individual. Whereas I've been constantly trying to get you to see that it's the costs of the faction as a whole instead of one person as an individual. The fact of the matter is, if your faction, as a whole, is able to generate the income needed to participate in TW and not get steamrolled within five minutes, then the faction will not consider 150k to be a lot.

I do have millions and yes, I do still consider 150k to be a lot... because I spent my time farming every single coin. A faction is made up of individuals... they are not a collective. They are individuals who each contribute to the faction, but, unless they sell gold, they all work hard to make those contributions. You still didn't understand my answer to this part (#2).

truekossy wrote: »

#3: Our posts had a one minute gap between them according to the forums. That can mean you posted at 09:17:59 while my post came out at 09:18:00. Note that in my post, I specifically asked about any type of PvP since you had already stated you don't TW and, frankly, I haven't the time to go through all of your posts to see if you've ever done dragon temple, cube, gone white, etc. So your counter of me not reading holds no ground since your post did not exist when I was making mine, and you've only mentioned that you have no TW experience in this thread since the time I've made my post and excluding your response to WnbTank. And the very fact that you've never dealt with even simple PvP means that you'll simply be unable to understand that 150k will never be considered a lot to a group of people who have to participate in a mass PvP battle on a weekly basis. After all, you're not going to understand rocket science if you haven't even taken basic physics.

I have stated throughout this thread, not just in that one post, that I do not do PvP. So, again I ask... who's not reading or understanding who?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

the only excuse for being this stupid is that you're under 12 years old. If not, then we have a problem.
/hypocrisy

I suggest you read the posts by the one to whom I was replying. Stop jumping to inaccurate and uninformed conclusions. That seems to be a contagion on these forums.

angelmunchkin wrote: »

WnbTank was replying to me, and even at the points where, within his post, his use of "you" may have been general, my response to him was not a rebuttal. I thanked him for trying to explain TW and at the same time explained to him my position. Simple and unoffensive toward him. Nothing that would indicate that I took it as a personal attack... because I did not. YOU did not understand my response to him, ergo, you are the one with a problem understanding what is written or else you are just looking for things to accuse or attack me for.



I do have millions and yes, I do still consider 150k to be a lot... because I spent my time farming every single coin. A faction is made up of individuals... they are not a collective. They are individuals who each contribute to the faction, but, unless they sell gold, they all work hard to make those contributions. You still didn't understand my answer to this part (#2).



I have stated throughout this thread, not just in that one post, that I do not do PvP. So, again I ask... who's not reading or understanding who?

Kitty replied to you but he indeed did make general statement, not directly involving you in other ways than showing how things stand. That is when I say if you see 150k as a major cost, I`m simply generalizing people who indeed see it as such, not implying you are one, even if the post was directed to you.

First of all, it is irrelenvant how you archieve your coin or how much effort you see for it. The people who should consider TWs, more than just trying once and seeing what it is like, will never consider 150k as anything major. I`m far from the best geared people out there, yet I got enough income to say 150k as a... well, irrelevant.

And one thing that you do not get. TWs arent invidual effort, they are a faction event, hence how much it takes from invidual to farm x is irrelevant, what matters is how much it takes a faction to do it. 20m isnt bad, if and when it`s faction farming it, sure it may take few hours but then again, this is a game, entertaiment, way to pass time. So unless you argue that everybody should get R9+12 with no effort whatsoever, the effort to see for TW is irrelevant, it`s the same thing on smaller scale.

Ps. I do wonder, if you have no interest in PvP aspect of the game, why are you even creating this discussion in the first place?

To the OP:

I'm a fairly new player here, but knew enough to ask questions. The rules here on the PWI forum tell you that you will not get back any of your bid. I was told that 30+ mill was getting serious in a bid. You also need pots for your players. I've budgeted 2 mill a week for pots plus members farming, but haven't really needed them yet for the faction. I also sat down in vent with some more experienced TW players and asked more questions.

This is an adult game, so expect to pay adult prices on items that cost. We've been lucky the first 2 weeks and have won our 2 bids. I've spent over 20 mill on what I concider as fairly high bids to have a good shot at winning. (I even had a faction declare war on my faction because they lost thier bid.)

The old rules were abused, as mentioned before and that lead to the new bidding rules.

It gets up in coins if you want to play with the big factions. It's like playing the card game Poker, if you want to bid, go big or stay at home. If you can't afford to lose the coins, don't bid.

Semper Fi,

Boartracker

and then I grabbed my BOOMBOX and hit the TURBO BASS

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Yet you argue like somebody is farming that 150k bid alone, jeez. You are simply conradicting yourself on every turn, do you know yourself what you mean? Kitty believes he lets you think that before replies any more, discussion is completely pointless as it is now.

I never said he, personally, farmed that bid alone. I was merely stating "why" people would get upset about money not being returned when they are outbid on something. Whether it is TW or anything else, whether it was a single person or a group. And I have NOT contradicted myself anywhere... my stance on this subject has been consistent and it will remain so.

What all of you didn't like is the fact that I don't keep my mouth shut when people become uppity and start looking down their noses at the people who have less than they do or think differently than they do. If you sound uppity, I'm going to tell you you do.

angelmunchkin wrote: »

I never said he, personally, farmed that bid alone. I was merely stating "why" people would get upset about money not being returned when they are outbid on something. Whether it is TW or anything else, whether it was a single person or a group. And I have NOT contradicted myself anywhere... my stance on this subject has been consistent and it will remain so.

What all of you didn't like is the fact that I don't keep my mouth shut when people become uppity and start looking down their noses at the people who have less than they do or think differently than they do. If you sound uppity, I'm going to tell you you do.

You dont really say what you mean clearly and frankly I`m getting tired of this convo. You talk how it takes an hour to grind for 150k, how it is such a effort/other misguided QQ. Nobody has said the bidding system works but you are providing such idiotic arguments that it`s been quite hard to not say anything. If you sound like an idiot who has no idea what he is talking, I`m going to tell you that sir. Sir, your an idiot, thanks.

i like the old days of seeing who bidding against who on what territory,and what coinage is being laid down..shouldnt be a "private" thing..the cash shop bidding should be a private thing...i meen come on look at it in a RL situation..k go ahead take your head sets off and look around and listen...you hear it?....you cannot hear any auction going on!!!!

AlegnaEP - Raging Tide wrote: »

Stuff

Let me take you off your pedestal right now.

TW bidding has been this way for MONTHS. If you'd been paying attention to the bids, you'd have noticed how different it was from MS. Thus, the smart thing to do would have been to ask questions about it. PWI did not steal your 150k. It is in the stipulations of the new bidding system that you get ONE bid and ONE bid only so make it your best.

Also, 16 people will not be able defend against 80 level 100+ godly-geared to decently-geared people. They will be rolled. Hard. This was the case on MY-EN (of which MS is close to) and it is the case here on PWI.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Let me take you off your pedestal right now.

TW bidding has been this way for MONTHS. If you'd been paying attention to the bids, you'd have noticed how different it was from MS. Thus, the smart thing to do would have been to ask questions about it. PWI did not steal your 150k. It is in the stipulations of the new bidding system that you get ONE bid and ONE bid only so make it your best.

Also, 16 people will not be able defend against 80 level 100+ godly-geared to decently-geared people. They will be rolled. Hard. This was the case on MY-EN (of which MS is close to) and it is the case here on PWI.

Wow... s/he wasn't the one on a pedestal!

FWI, to everyone... if someone takes your money and gives you nothing back for it, that's stealing. In every coin sink in this game (excluding TW), the players have gotten something for their coins. At least give them something for their money... a consolation prize or something. Some random TT mat's that they can either sell or use for their faction. Don't just take their money and keep it... that's not how "bidding" works... that's how "gambling" works. Giving the money back is better though. As for allowing bidding only once to prevent abuse of the system, there's nothing wrong with that. One chance to get the bid and if you don't, you get your money back and go on your way. Albeit, that still makes it so that only the richest factions will ever hold a territory, which is stupid... someone said earlier in this thread that richest does not make strongest. I agree with that.

Otherwise, change the description of the system and clearly state it every time an offer is made, that the money is being gambled, not bid. Make the user click confirm 3 times (or more) so they have no excuse for not knowing that they are gambling with their factions coins. (and yes, I understand TW "bidding" has been this way for months, but there will always be new factions wanting to join TW, and they need to be made clearly aware.)

truekossy wrote: »

The repair system simply drains coin. There's no way around that.
AH item list fee.
AH tax.
Gold trade tax


Four examples of things where you do not get something in return for losing your coin.

Repair bill = you get repaired equipment, you're paying for a service.

AH fee = again, you're paying for a service.

AH tax = You sold an item, it was taxed.

Gold trade tax = If your selling, you're paying a service fee, if you're buying, you're paying tax on your purchase.

What do you not understand about these? Service fees and taxes exist in real life also... you should be familiar with the concept.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

If I pay tax, it's most likely for government revenues so they can provide public services. That, is what I'm receiving as a tax payer for my money. When you pay a tax on your AH sale, or on your gold trade, that money disappears and is never recirculated or used again.

When I pay for a good or service, I pay a fee. Not a tax.

Actually, yes, those coins can be considered as being recycled in the game via mob drops and players selling to NPC's, as those coins come from the system, not other players. Therefore, you have a moot point here. And I distinguished between fees and taxes. In this game, as in real life, the players pay both. If you sell something on the AH, that's income... consider the amount (5% I believe it is) that the AH keeps from the sale as an income tax. The initial fee when you place the item up for sale, is just that... a fee for using the AH.

I find the **** fight going on in this thread amusing.

1. TW is the only competitive thing left on this game across all servers. I'm willing to bet that the non-R8/9 or Nirvana players turn to TW as their last means of competitive PvP with other players geared similarly because the PvP outside of the war is pure end-game or too-noob-for-school.

You get in what you put out. If your faction has less than five million coins, forget about TW and go work towards getting more money and gearing your faction members for the TWs of the future. You probably won't win a bid with such a small amount of pocket change, nevermind pay for anything else inside of the TW.

2. Yeah, the bidding system right now is a little screwy. It would work as a coin sink if it wasn't so very easy to grab coins by opening a couple of packs, which for the main faction leaders on most servers is probably as automatic as breathing. Get a couple of best lucks, sell them on, make some money, get more packs, do it all over again. So many people are playing the economy it's a joke.

I don't like the new bidding system because frankly, it doesn't work. Fake bids can still be made because, ironically, there's so much coin in the system that some people have the coin to spare. Better yet, nobody actually sees who these bidders are any more, it's just another nameless faction making another anonymous bid on a territory.

3. Go make a new character. Preferably a Mystic or a Seeker because they level insanely fasts with their early quests and unlike all previous races, they still haven't done their race-specific quests before 30. Save all your coin and buy nothing if it's not necessary. That includes weapons and gear. You can go straight from 1-30 using quest-given gear, I am not kidding.

Now if you play casually, like me, that's a few hours. If you're hardcore, all that together probably reaches two hours, maximum. And if you've been picking up all your drops, selling everything you don't need and saving every single coin you make you should have at least two million coins.

Farming for coins? It's a slower way to make money, but if you don't hit 1mph (million per hour) then you are sucking very badly and might want to consider learning how to grind effectively. Especially if you're on a veno, which is the cheapest of every class to grind on.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Please, try to beat QQme, Vicious, Vertu, or even Leviathan with 16 people, you will get crushed in 5 minutes.

omg, you finally mentioned Vertu as a powerful faction. I'm so happy right now b:sad