I take issue with PWI and TW bidding

angelmunchkin

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

At your level yes. That's kinda the point. If leaders/officers in a faction are so low level that they cant even work together and farm around 3-5mil for a decent bid they shouldn't bother with TW in the first place.

And lol at someone bidding 150k and complains about no re-fund. I know guilds who bid 6-8 mil and lost their bid and didn't get shiet back. I dont really like the TW-bid system either for that reason. Its also hard to plan stuff during weekends, since no one knows if they will have a TW or not until late Thursday. Its a system that encourages players to spy in other factions to, to see where and how much everyone is gonna bid.

This wreaks of rich faction elitism. Rich faction funded by selling gold, not by hard work.

Still the subject of the thread is about not getting refunded when out bid. I don't care how little or how much you bid, you should get it back if you didn't win.

angelmunchkin

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Then you aren't ready for TW, end of discussion. If you aren't able to make around 1mil an hour then you aren't even ready to be a member of a TW guild, much less a leader of one.

1mil an hour = selling gold, not everyone does that and it DOES NOT mean they are not ready for TW... as you have NO IDEA how long these factions may have been grinding and saving and how much they actually have to spend.
I don't know any individuals that make 1mil an hour by farming.

I, personally, don't give a rats **** about TW. I'm just trying to make a point supporting the OP and all the elitist snobs gotta make a big to-do about it.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

angelmunchkin wrote: »

1mil an hour = selling gold, not everyone does that and it DOES NOT mean they are not ready for TW... as you have NO IDEA how long these factions may have been grinding and saving and how much they actually have to spend.
I don't know any individuals that make 1mil an hour by farming.

I, personally, don't give a rats **** about TW. I'm just trying to make a point supporting the OP and all the elitist snobs gotta make a big to-do about it.

Lol how dumb could you be.


1mil an hour is NOT selling gold. At all.


No, it does mean you aren't ready for TW, I don't care how long you grind level 70 mobs, if you can't make the coins then you aren't ready for TW, period.


Oh, BTW: I make about 1.5mil an hour farming, average of 2mil in green mats and 500k coins for costs, that's if I don't get any gold mats from TT.


Edit: lol @ I don't know how much they have to spend. Yes, I do, I know how much a TW costs and I know what the expenses are.

angelmunchkin

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol how dumb could you be.


1mil an hour is NOT selling gold. At all.


No, it does mean you aren't ready for TW, I don't care how long you grind level 70 mobs, if you can't make the coins then you aren't ready for TW, period.


Oh, BTW: I make about 1.5mil an hour farming, average of 2mil in green mats and 500k coins for costs, that's if I don't get any gold mats from TT.


Edit: lol @ I don't know how much they have to spend. Yes, I do, I know how much a TW costs and I know what the expenses are.

You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about any faction you are not a member of. Just because you know how much TW COSTS, does not mean you know how much these other factions have. I believe that comment, in and of itself, proved who the dumb one here is. No need to say anything about the rest of it. You're just another one of those snobby elitists that I have been talking about. For the record, I am talking about ordinary farming, not farming dungeons. Some classes cannot solo the dungeons that pay that well and I am talking about solo farming, not squad farming.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

If they consider 150k to be significant then they don't have a lot. If you can't farm around 1mil an hour then you aren't ready for TW.


Who cares? They should farm what is the most profitiable. Your argument of I CAN ONLY MAKE 100K AN HOUR FARMING MOBS means nothing. There are better ways to farm coins and if you can't access them then you aren't ready for TW.

angelmunchkin

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If they consider 150k to be significant then they don't have a lot. If you can't farm around 1mil an hour then you aren't ready for TW.


Who cares? They should farm what is the most profitiable. Your argument of I CAN ONLY MAKE 100K AN HOUR FARMING MOBS means nothing. There are better ways to farm coins and if you can't access them then you aren't ready for TW.

Are you this stupid in real life? One really has to wonder! And you really need to tone down your snobbishness... it really is irritating and unbecoming.

You haven't read, or at least bothered to understand, anything I have said. NO ONE said that the amount was significant, just probably hard earned... the complaint was that it wasn't returned.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

If earning 150k is hard then you aren't ready for TW.


TW takes millions upon millions of coins and if you cant earn more than 150k in an hour or two then you aren't ready for it.




150k is chump change.




inb4 anyone who makes more than 100k an hour is a cash shopper

angelmunchkin

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If earning 150k is hard then you aren't ready for TW.


TW takes millions upon millions of coins and if you cant earn more than 150k in an hour or two then you aren't ready for it.




150k is chump change.




inb4 anyone who makes more than 100k an hour is a cash shopper

You are hopeless! Terribly and tragically hopeless!

Get off the short bus and listen to what someone says once in a while. I don't care how you make your coins or how easy it is for you. Just because someone else worked hard for their coins and it took them longer to get it, DOES NOT mean they are not ready for TW. They could have more than enough for a TW, it still does not excuse not getting a refund when out bid, and that is the complaint.
Complaint: No TW bid refund when out bid!!!

FYI: (once again) I don't do TW. I'm just supporting the OP's complaint and have tried to make all you elitist snobs understand why he might be upset. Get off your pedestals and get a clue!

Eoria - Harshlands

angelmunchkin wrote:

Whining and moaning

Two words: Coin sink.

If you cannot ****ing understand that, then I don't know anymore.

angelmunchkin

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Two words: Coin sink.

If you cannot ****ing understand that, then I don't know anymore.

I understand about coin sinks, and I also know that they don't work. Not refunding a TW bid is an outrageous implement due to the sheer amount that some factions bid and my protest on this matter has been on behalf of anyone and everyone that wants to do TW.

BONUS (for me): I'm not the one who lost coins on a TW bid... never have and never will. So I am not complaining or whining as I have nothing to complain or whine about. You all go ahead and gamble your millions, I don't care anymore. And that is what it is.... a gamble. Might as well turn PWI into a mini Vegas now.

_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver

I'd just like to add that they took consideration for the non fundable bids. Minimum bid used to be 500. Correct me if I am wrong. Now it is 100k. Please stop crying how it's a theft.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

At the person complaining about Rawrgh being snobbish, go farm mats or something its profitable only takes an hour, and gives higher profit then killing mobs. And guess what no repair fee's. There are multiple ways to make money on this game. READ GUIDES TO EARN MONEY. Oh and 1mill an hour is easy btw. If i was trying and made less then 1mill an hour id be ashamed of myself.

Bictorr - Lost City

At first I thought AngelMunchkin was trying to reverse troll everyone. But it turns out to be Punkinkatt on another avatar after reading my awesome dialogue owning his/her naive broke *** self in this rich man's game.

angelmunchkin

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

At the person complaining about Rawrgh being snobbish, go farm mats or something its profitable only takes an hour, and gives higher profit then killing mobs. And guess what no repair fee's. There are multiple ways to make money on this game. READ GUIDES TO EARN MONEY. Oh and 1mill an hour is easy btw. If i was trying and made less then 1mill an hour id be ashamed of myself.

Can you come up with something of your own? I mean, if you gotta jump my **** too, unwarranted, at least come up with something fresh and out of your own head. Don't repeat Rawrgh... He already said all that and I already disputed it. But my guess is you only saw what you wanted and skipped the rest of what I wrote.

I'm not having coin issues, I don't do TW, etc, etc, etc... READ AND at least TRY to make an EFFORT to understand WHAT you are READING!

/headexplodes

Bictorr - Lost City

Good don't do TW, stop complaining about it eating your 150k.
TW is for rich folks, not poor clueless people who can't make more than 150k an hour.

angelmunchkin

Bictorr - Lost City wrote: »

At first I thought AngelMunchkin was trying to reverse troll everyone. But it turns out to be Punkinkatt on another avatar after reading my awesome dialogue owning his/her naive broke *** self in this rich man's game.

You didn't own anybody... least of all me. I read, then ignored your trivial post. You're another one who doesn't make any effort to understand anything you read. Or, you don't possess the ability to understand.

Stop patting yourself on the back... you haven't achieved anything.

angelmunchkin

Bictorr - Lost City wrote: »

Good don't do TW, stop complaining about it eating your 150k.
TW is for rich folks, not poor clueless people who can't make more than 150k an hour.

If I don't TW (which I do not and never have), how could it have eaten my 150k? I'm not the OP.

Can we say "STUPID"?

Oh wait... you're too stupid to even know what that word means. My bad!

Bictorr - Lost City

Personal attacks are what wins arguments.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

TBH i did read this thread, and what ive gathered is OP is unable to earn money and is spending it on stuff she shouldnt be yet. If she has trouble earning coin, dont do something that is a coin sink?

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

TBH i did read this thread, and what ive gathered is OP is unable to earn money and is spending it on stuff she shouldnt be yet. If she has trouble earning coin, dont do something that is a coin sink?

Try 1st grade for better reading comprehension skills. Just a suggestion.

angelmunchkin

_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »

TBH i did read this thread, and what ive gathered is OP is unable to earn money and is spending it on stuff she shouldnt be yet. If she has trouble earning coin, dont do something that is a coin sink?

If you understand that the OP was the one that complained (I just supported his complaint), then don't direct your posts at me as if I was the one complaining. Get your chicks in a row and keep track of which is which.

WnbTank - Archosaur

angelmunchkin wrote: »

Can you come up with something of your own? I mean, if you gotta jump my **** too, unwarranted, at least come up with something fresh and out of your own head. Don't repeat Rawrgh... He already said all that and I already disputed it. But my guess is you only saw what you wanted and skipped the rest of what I wrote.

I'm not having coin issues, I don't do TW, etc, etc, etc... READ AND at least TRY to make an EFFORT to understand WHAT you are READING!

/headexplodes

It isn`t elitist attitude, it`s facing facts, some of us feel it`s only proper to use facts or good estimations instead of raging how unfair life is. Kitty is bored, he tries to explain some things.

We forget the initial cost of gear, it`s something we add as free basic, hence TW will cost lot more than the final number is. The PvE TW, tier 3, as a faction you`ll get it for roflwtf 150k bid, you take it slow, dont burn charms at all. Still I can see pot costs/repairs being 500k+ as a faction.

Okey, they managed to archieve those incredible 650k coins and they need to defend the land this time. Now, cata barbs, cata clerics all need charms, so at least 4 plat hp charms, 4 gold ones too, that`s what, 16m? Towers, catascrolls, apos, event pots, etc. And still, we are going with mere minimal reasonable numbers, normally whole faction should be charmed. The PvP TW will cost least 20m, unless it`s a steamroll, which I believe is not the case as the argument was 150k being lots. Or at least they wont be steamroll winning it.

Now we see 150k vs 20m+, it`s irrelevant number compared to whole expenses, hence if you see 150k being lots, you arent ready for TW, period. Oh but darn, I must be clueless elitist that actually has done TW, I must know nothing. Somebody with lvl 70 avatar, that should never be considered a member of TW faction, clearly knows more bout TW expenses than I do.

angelmunchkin

Bictorr - Lost City wrote: »

Personal attacks are what wins arguments.

Apparently people think that, so, why not fight back?

If ya can't handle it, don't dish it out!

angelmunchkin

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

It isn`t elitist attitude, it`s facing facts, some of us feel it`s only proper to use facts or good estimations instead of raging how unfair life is. Kitty is bored, he tries to explain some things.

We forget the initial cost of gear, it`s something we add as free basic, hence TW will cost lot more than the final number is. The PvE TW, tier 3, as a faction you`ll get it for roflwtf 150k bid, you take it slow, dont burn charms at all. Still I can see pot costs/repairs being 500k+ as a faction.

Okey, they managed to archieve those incredible 650k coins and they need to defend the land this time. Now, cata barbs, cata clerics all need charms, so at least 4 plat hp charms, 4 gold ones too, that`s what, 16m? Towers, catascrolls, apos, event pots, etc. And still, we are going with mere minimal reasonable numbers, normally whole faction should be charmed. The PvP TW will cost least 20m, unless it`s a steamroll, which I believe is not the case as the argument was 150k being lots. Or at least they wont be steamroll winning it.

Now we see 150k vs 20m+, it`s irrelevant number compared to whole expenses, hence if you see 150k being lots, you arent ready for TW, period. Oh but darn, I must be clueless elitist that actually has done TW, I must know nothing. Somebody with lvl 70 avatar, that should never be considered a member of TW faction, clearly knows more bout TW expenses than I do.

And now you are talking way out in left field and I am standing far out in the right. In other words, other than the math, you've lost me. I don't do TW, I don't understand how it's done, and really don't need to know. I was just supporting the OP's objection to no refund on TW bids. And suddenly, people are accusing me of not having coins and/or not knowing how to make it in-game, and accusing me of crying about not having or losing coins and they got all uppity and cocky and now I have left the game... so end of story.

But thanks for trying to explain it... but I am simply not PvP savvy.

truekossy

angelmunchkin wrote: »

Just for the record, about farming for coins, 150k is not easy to come by if you have to spend an hour or more to get it. I have never made that much in an hour of farming (except during double dq drops) at my level. And I can farm straight through, without resting, as a veno, because a veno my level NEVER runs out of mp. As long as one knows how to avoid getting overwhelmingly aggro'd, thus getting killed, then it is non-stop farming.
Even if 150k could be farmed in an hour, if you're expected to have 5mil or more, do your math and figure out how much time out of a persons real life they would need to spend farming... JUST farming, NOT improving their character or completing objectives. Maybe you don't have a life outside of this game, but I am sure other people do.

You talk about earning 150k being difficult for an individual. I can understand that if they're a single low or mid level... but a single low or mid level character would never have a chance of surviving a TW. Even a PvE one. So saying that it's difficult for one person to get 150k via any means is pointless in this situation since we're not talking about just one person.

On the other hand, if it's a faction of people, and those people are active and able to actually perform TW, it's maybe 3k per person for that 150k. Can you stand behind grinding 3k as being something difficult? Especially considering that a character in their mid-20s can get that amount in less than 5 minutes.

You say you grasp my posts, yet you still seem to be utterly missing my point. 150k should not be a significant amount to any faction ready to TW. The faction as a whole, should be easily capable of generating that coin without effort. 5 mil for a faction with 50 players willing to help in TW means 500k each. Even if all 50 of those players were around your level, that would be an hour and a half of grinding at most for each person.

You say to consider how much time they'd be taking to do this and I've constantly shown that I have. However you've constantly shown that you either aren't reading our posts or don't understand them.

At your level, sure it may be difficult for an individual to gain 150k if they're just farming mobs. However, not only is farming mobs the worst way to generate coin in this game... but there's also the fact that a bunch of 7X players running into a TW are just asking to get themselves beat. We've all already discussed the costs. I've gone and shown you how easy it should be for any TW capable faction to earn that coin. Yet you still insist on saying that their faction was possibly ready for TW.

Like I've said before, the bidding system sucks nowadays, but it's a coin sink and does help counter best lucks somewhat when you consider all the factions that make 8mil+ bids and still don't get in.






Oh and you can say that you're arguing about the bidding system, but nobody's saying that it's a good one. What we've all been talking about so far comes straight from when you said

PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be at times. o.o

Just because 150k is a lot to them, that doesn't mean they are not ready for TW. It just means they are not lazy and worked hard for their coins.

What we're trying to explain to you, as people who have experienced TW and the related costs it has firsthand, is that if 150k is a lot to them as a faction, then they are not ready to TW as just the basic needs for TW would destroy them.



So let me ask you three questions.

1: Have you actually been reading and trying to understand our posts or are you just skimming over them and not really paying attention?
2: Can you really still stand behind your idea that a group of people who can call 150k a substantial amount and are unable to easily generate that much coin as a group is actually able to TW?
3: Have you ever experienced PvP of any sort in this game or the costs associated with it?


If you respond to nothing else in my post, at least answer those three questions. Because so far you really just don't seem to get it. And this is a debate that' your example of God vs no God doesn't even come close to.

angelmunchkin

truekossy wrote: »

You talk about earning 150k being difficult for an individual. I can understand that if they're a single low or mid level... but a single low or mid level character would never have a chance of surviving a TW. Even a PvE one. So saying that it's difficult for one person to get 150k via any means is pointless in this situation since we're not talking about just one person.

On the other hand, if it's a faction of people, and those people are active and able to actually perform TW, it's maybe 3k per person for that 150k. Can you stand behind grinding 3k as being something difficult? Especially considering that a character in their mid-20s can get that amount in less than 5 minutes.

You say you grasp my posts, yet you still seem to be utterly missing my point. 150k should not be a significant amount to any faction ready to TW. The faction as a whole, should be easily capable of generating that coin without effort. 5 mil for a faction with 50 players willing to help in TW means 500k each. Even if all 50 of those players were around your level, that would be an hour and a half of grinding at most for each person.

You say to consider how much time they'd be taking to do this and I've constantly shown that I have. However you've constantly shown that you either aren't reading our posts or don't understand them.

At your level, sure it may be difficult for an individual to gain 150k if they're just farming mobs. However, not only is farming mobs the worst way to generate coin in this game... but there's also the fact that a bunch of 7X players running into a TW are just asking to get themselves beat. We've all already discussed the costs. I've gone and shown you how easy it should be for any TW capable faction to earn that coin. Yet you still insist on saying that their faction was possibly ready for TW.

Like I've said before, the bidding system sucks nowadays, but it's a coin sink and does help counter best lucks somewhat when you consider all the factions that make 8mil+ bids and still don't get in.






Oh and you can say that you're arguing about the bidding system, but nobody's saying that it's a good one. What we've all been talking about so far comes straight from when you said


What we're trying to explain to you, as people who have experienced TW and the related costs it has firsthand, is that if 150k is a lot to them as a faction, then they are not ready to TW as just the basic needs for TW would destroy them.



So let me ask you three questions.
1: Have you actually been reading and trying to understand our posts or are you just skimming over them and not really paying attention?
2: Can you really still stand behind your idea that a group of people who can call 150k a substantial amount and are unable to easily generate that much coin as a group is actually able to TW?
3: Have you ever experienced PvP of any sort in this game or the costs associated with it?


If you respond to nothing else in my post, at least answer those three questions. Because so far you really just don't seem to get it. And this is a debate that' your example of God vs no God doesn't even come close to.

See my last post, replying to WnbTank. I do read posts and it's not me that doesn't understand what I'm reading. (That answers question #1) Anyone that takes an hour of their real life to farm for 150k virtual coins is going to consider it a lot... not just in terms of the amount of coins, but in time spent getting them as well. That doesn't mean it was a "significant" amount compared to however much they may have saved up. We... you nor I... do not know how much that was. It wasn't something that was shared by the OP. I never used the term "significant", which has a different meaning than "a lot". (that answers question #2)

As for question #3... I have already stated SEVERAL TIMES that I do not do PvP or TW or anything of the kind in ANY video game. So now who's not reading or understanding what I have written?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

angelmunchkin wrote: »

Apparently people think that, so, why not fight back?

If ya can't handle it, don't dish it out!

the only excuse for being this stupid is that you're under 12 years old. If not, then we have a problem.
/hypocrisy

Eoria - Harshlands

angelmunchkin wrote: »

Stuff

Okay. New rule of the thread:

If you do not participate in TW, your opinion on this subject is meaningless.

Have a nice day.

truekossy

angelmunchkin wrote: »

See my last post, replying to WnbTank. I do read posts and it's not me that doesn't understand what I'm reading. (That answers question #1) Anyone that takes an hour of their real life to farm for 150k virtual coins is going to consider it a lot... not just in terms of the amount of coins, but in time spent getting them as well. That doesn't mean it was a "significant" amount compared to however much they may have saved up. We... you nor I... do not know how much that was. It wasn't something that was shared by the OP. I never used the term "significant", which has a different meaning than "a lot". (that answers question #2)

As for question #3... I have already stated SEVERAL TIMES that I do not do PvP or TW or anything of the kind in ANY video game. So now who's not reading or understanding what I have written?

#1: You say that... yet most of your responses are showing otherwise. For example, when WnbTank said "you", he was speaking in general and not speaking as if it were directly yourself. Basic reading comprehension would have made that clear. Yet in your response, you took it as a personal attack on your own posts. That example is one of many that signifies that, even if you are reading, you aren't understanding.

#2: That's a logical fallacy. And besides, as has been mentioned, at higher levels there are much better ways for a faction to gain coin. Heck, running a mat route and selling those can get you more coin in less time than plain mob grinding. I can spend an hour grinding on a level 7X char and not feel that the coin that character has earned is a lot or significant in any way because, frankly, it's neither. If you've managed to save up 50 mil, will you honestly consider 150k out of it (which is less than 1% of those savings) to be a lot? Perhaps you just think in different terms than the rest of us but we certainly don't agree on that point. Again, there's also the fact that you're still talking about the efforts of an individual. Whereas I've been constantly trying to get you to see that it's the costs of the faction as a whole instead of one person as an individual. The fact of the matter is, if your faction, as a whole, is able to generate the income needed to participate in TW and not get steamrolled within five minutes, then the faction will not consider 150k to be a lot.

#3: Our posts had a one minute gap between them according to the forums. That can mean you posted at 09:17:59 while my post came out at 09:18:00. Note that in my post, I specifically asked about any type of PvP since you had already stated you don't TW and, frankly, I haven't the time to go through all of your posts to see if you've ever done dragon temple, cube, gone white, etc. So your counter of me not reading holds no ground since your post did not exist when I was making mine, and you've only mentioned that you have no TW experience in this thread since the time I've made my post and excluding your response to WnbTank. And the very fact that you've never dealt with even simple PvP means that you'll simply be unable to understand that 150k will never be considered a lot to a group of people who have to participate in a mass PvP battle on a weekly basis. After all, you're not going to understand rocket science if you haven't even taken basic physics.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Try 1st grade for better reading comprehension skills. Just a suggestion.

posting on pwi forums is srz bizness