PVE Guild Hall or Not?

Tried to keep up with this, but I apologize if it's been mentioned elsewhere.

Rawrgh, you're rabidly defending the idea that because Bases offer no game-mechanical advantages to PvE'ers, it is and should be PvP-only. And from what's been said about the Bases so far, you're right.

But there's another facet to this as well - many MMOs offer housing or guild-home functions, in some form or another. PWI originally had the housing system, which as most of us know was removed in the F2P version. I imagine most of the people who heard about getting Guild Bases latched onto the idea as a "Faction Home" concept, desiring a digital-estate to call their own. Whether it provides any in-game benefit to them is largely irrelevant to this desire. And upon hearing that these potential "homes" would be subject to attack, whether or not they engage in PvP... well, you can see the response for yourself.

I'm not saying either point of view is wrong, but personally I endorse a player's option to choose. If PWI could implement some "Change State" button (similar to genie-trade, and sharing a week-long cooldown) that could flip the status on whether or not a base can be attacked, I think it would go a long way towards appeasing most of the protests. That way, a guild has the option to engage in the 40v40 battles, build up their base, or abstain and leave their home at its foundations, as they see fit. A week-long cooldown prevents the switch from being abused, since they can't attack and then go PvP-immune from all reprisals.

Rawrgh come on your not that self centered surely?

You come from a very powerful faction on a PVE server so you more than most should understand how power attracts power. There are the odd few of us that refuse to be pulled in to this faction e peen contest and stick with what factions we are in whether we are the underdog or not we don't need to win to be happy but that don't mean other people should have exclusive rights to content that should be fun for all. It's always easier to sit on a large fence and poke the masses than to do it from ground level as you are doing right now.

I really don't mind the PVP aspect of it as it will bring me more to do but I do have a problem with you making out like this is only for PVP'rs and being so blind to the fact of what people are apposing against... I am not sure if the quote you have above is right but pre release I was told it was 2000 subs 500 emblems 500(?) mysterious chips and 20 big bank notes.

That to me is no way cheap no matter how you dress it up if your asking people to invest that much in to it then at least give them a way of safe guarding it from total destruction at the very least. Top faction on a server already gets the chance at 300-400 Million coins every TW once they can take the map.

The powerful get more powerful and the less powerful just get told to GTFO gotta love PWI.

I voted for the choice to be PvE only, not that PWE will probably take any notice.

I gotta tell the people that want a social hang out, or something to accomplish as a group, that this feature just wasn't designed for you. You'll be kicking yourself in the *** for spending so much to get something so lame, I guarantee it. Just pick a nice spot on world map to hang out and get to work on your faction mates cultis and gear, that will provide plenty of entertainment for a long time.

For the ones who just feel left out of the new shiny thing..... here's a friendly reality check:

The game already has several features that are fairly exclusive:
you must be able to defend your land in TW if you want to own territory ("but why can't there be PvE only lands for the people who just want a free teleport and some fancy apothecaries?!?")
you must be able to deal massive amounts of damage to get anything from CoA or tiger event, the level requirement to participate is far lower than the level you need to get anything from it

You're already left out of things, it gives you something to work toward, or ignore.


I would be ridiculous to think that a small, unorganized group of adventurers could build and maintain a real fortress, let alone defend it from an organized army. This is how I think the guild bases were intended, a fortress for your troops to gather and equip themselves, not a necessary part of the game at all.

after getting bored on page 2 of this thread and not reading the rest... i wanna roll a 101 on a pve server go into a pvp guild, and beat up on the pve ones

Been a owner of a smaller faction , The thoughts of a guild base sounded really great at first something where our guildies could work towards and hang out has a faction

The nature of the Guild Base is to function as an actual headquarters for your faction; it's an instanced area that's restricted to outsiders, and a place that's chock full of guild activities that will take time and effort to complete. But when you do complete its challenges, you and your guild will be roundly rewarded for your efforts with all manner of various unique prizes.

Who in their right mind wouldnt want a Guild Base with the above stament

But really what the point of even working towards one when all our hardwork can be kissed goodbye in one hit and be forced into PVP b:surrender when your factoin doesnt PVP at all and thats why we on a Pve sever

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

You still haven't answered the question, what is a guild base good for that isn't PvP related?

You obviously can't read...or just sit in a box.

"something other to do than the usual routine (FC/BH/TT/etc.)"

There may be more features to the guild base at a later date which pertain to PvE. It's still a new feature.

I honestly don't understand why you're constantly arguing with PvEers on the benefits, or lack there of, for their guild to own a base. What we want to do is what we want to do...that's none of your business. So what if a guild base costs a lot. That only sets a goal for the guild to achieve, which in turn brings to guild together.

Rather than argue, why not bring some meaningful discussion to this topic.

Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here's something that should be implemented on PvE servers (or even ALL servers):

The guild leader has option to set faction base to PvE only. PvE only factions can not declare an attack on another faction base. This can be switched at a later time with at cooldown time (can't attack or be attacked for say 2 days? 3 days? 1 week?). Likewise it can't be switched back to PvE only on a whim (cooldown for the same amount of time...or not at all).

This would solve all concerns, and make the game a little more fair. The guilds need to be ready for 40vs40 in the first place (1000 merits for every player to participate?). Some guilds have their base on the first day, while others will take months. Not everyone has the time to make this game their priority.

just meh $.02

How would this not address everyone's concerns? This would not only allow PvEers the chance to have a guild base, but also give ALL guilds the time to build up resources and merits.

Wouldn't it at all be possible for a PvE based guild to switch to PvP at a later date if they felt it's time to try something different? Doesn't it take time for a guild to build it's member foundation and lvls?

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

How do you think we got there? We didn't sit around and QQ endlessly, we actually did something to improve.

Yea...but you also took time to get there. Are you afraid my fix would allow newer guilds a chance to catch up?

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

And as crazy as it seems, not all content is designed so that every single player can access it at once. Believe it or not there is some content that some players simply are not, and should not, be able to access. Some content is actually designed as a reward for the players that have put in the effort to get to it.

Who are you to judge what content players should have access to?
RED=applies to next

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

It isn't that expensive for a good organized guild with a high level average.


1.5mil and a few warsong emblem.

Right...but it is expensive for 80-90% of the active guilds out there. So I guess it takes more effort to achieve this goal. It also takes time to build a faction up. Maybe they want to have a guild base started for when they're ready for PvP? This saves time in the long run on the merits/base extensions/etc.

aaaw damn outta pennies to give my $.02...got change for a $100?

Reminder: I don't care if a guild base is PvP orientated atm...or if you feel we shouldn't build one...or any other unintelligent/arrogant statements you feel the need to post. In other words, as I stated previously, keep the discussion constructive.

You obviously can't read...or just sit in a box.

"something other to do than the usual routine (FC/BH/TT/etc.)"

There may be more features to the guild base at a later date which pertain to PvE. It's still a new feature.

I honestly don't understand why you're constantly arguing with PvEers on the benefits, or lack there of, for their guild to own a base. What we want to do is what we want to do...that's none of your business. So what if a guild base costs a lot. That only sets a goal for the guild to achieve, which in turn brings to guild together.

Rather than argue, why not bring some meaningful discussion to this topic.

"something to do other than the usual routine"

You keep saying that, yet you have yet to specify WHAT there is to do other than the usual routine.


Sure, just ignore my point. I never said PvE players shouldn't get one because of the lack of content, I said PvE players shouldn't go get a base that's clearly designed for PvP and then complain when they're forced to do said PvP.

Yea...but you also took time to get there. Are you afraid my fix would allow newer guilds a chance to catch up?

If you're still "catching up" then don't build one, plain and simple. It's clear by the costs that a guild base is aimed at the top end players, by building one you are stating that you feel your guild is a top guild and is able to compete with others.

Who are you to judge what content players should have access to?

I didn't judge, the devs did. By making the bases expensive and require mats from high end instances they made it clear that it was for the larger more organized guilds. Same as TW. If you can't compete with other guilds then you aren't able to have land.

Right...but it is expensive for 80-90% of the active guilds out there. So I guess it takes more effort to achieve this goal. It also takes time to build a faction up. Maybe they want to have a guild base started for when they're ready for PvP? This saves time in the long run on the merits/base extensions/etc.

Once again, not every guild will be able to have a guild base, by making it require these things they made it obvious that it's designed for the bigger, stronger, factions.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

You're totally right, you should spend 300-400mil on a base where you can answer trivia questions and do quests for 20k xp.

Games are all about haveing fun. Who is anyone to say someone elses form of fun is stupid. I have the most fun in this game buying clothes. Thats why I'm here. If people wanna get a guild base for non PVP fun it's no less pointless as anything else in this game. As long as people are haveing fun it shouldn't matter to anyone else how they are doing it and how much they are spending.

Oh as long as they aren't violating the TOS. Once they do that its everyone concern and duty to report them.

I have to agree. But for you, as you are in a pvp server it works out for you. As for those of us that are not well we dont think its right. The Devs might as well make the maps for the stronger factions for TW and get rid of us smaller factions as well. Would that make it easier? Then then Dev, would have to increase have many would be in a faction. I mean hell, by the sound of things, they might as well turn it into another pvp server and the hell with what the players want. Do I have it somed up about right?

I for one Hate what the Dev have done with this guild house thing. Its done nothing but cause headaches for the players, especially the ones that bust their as$ to get a guild house to only find out that it maybe taken away. What kind of bullshlt is that. So what if us "smaller" factions want a place to call our own or a place to hang out. It would be ours, something we worked hard for and can take pride in. I be damn if i want that taken form me.

As far as sitting back and waiting to see what happens,I think that is too long of a wait. The Dev need to address these problems now before it gets to much out of hand. Which I think is pretty darn well close to it if not already there.

People aren't going to do 40 vs 40 for the materials, most guilds that already have a base already have more materials than they need.


They do it for the fun, similar to doing TW before the change back to coins, there was no real reward, we did it for fun.


If a guild can afford the 200mil cost then the majority of members will be already 90+, so the training wing is irrelevant when cube can be done for 1mil and an actual reward. Or BH, or FC.


The low level weapons are time limited, no one likes time limited gear, just look at people complaining about stash gears being time limited now.

PvE players can get a guild base all they want, but it's clearly aimed at PvP players.

I concede that the 40v40 battles are aimed at pvp players.

The guild base itself and the benefits from having the base are not very pvp oriented.

wait huh? veno pet skills are in the Guild base? Strong and Protect? for how much (wat's the ceiling gonna be like?). Of course they do this AFTTER i bought mine >.<

Ok, my two cents.

The essential crux of Rawrgh's argument is that, from what he has seen, there are no PvE benefits to having a guild base. Others have already pointed out that the PvP benefits, as far as improving gear/buffs/etc aren't exactly spectacular (relative to the cost of a base) either. From this supposed fact, Rawrgh then states that the 40 vs 40 battles must be the only reason for a faction base.

Allow me to attempt what no other person has been successful in doing yet: to crack that 6 inch layer of crud that is blocking any useful information from reaching Rawrgh's brain, where we must suppose he has rudimentary logical reasoning.

Reasons why a faction base could benefit people:

(Gonna try to keep this reaaal simple. Just for your, Rawrgh.)

1) A place to hang out with their faction members that excludes others. You have already pointed out 'go find a secluded corner of the world map and meet there. Its NOT the same! The point of having a place to call 'your own' is the EXCLUSIVENESS of it. NOBODY else except faction members can go there. Can you see why this might be attractive? Lets give you a real world example: logically speaking, it is much cheaper if people group together. 'Lets all go live in apartment buildings, 3 person per room! Think of how much money we'd all save'. "Uh... no. I'd rather I have my own room any day, thank you very much, for ME and my FAMILY only". 'But it costs more!' To which I reply "I don't care, I don't want strangers in my home". Similarly, a faction base can exclude the unwanted presence of outsiders. As somebody pointed out: you could put up catshops that sell items only to faction members.

2) Graphics. I know, how pointless... right? Right??? Pointless like fashion... pointless like wedding chapel... pointless like all class pets... right? Wrong! Many people spend $, and sometimes great sums of money, for nothing more than APPEARANCE. Personal appearance. Appearance MATTERS. From what I've seen of faction base, its definitely a cool place, graphically speaking. If I have to pay some coins to get it, thats fine, it is MY base, my OWN base, and it looks cool, so I'm gonna like it. Who are you to tell people whether they should have fashion or not? Similarly, who are you to tell somebody they can't get a faction base simply because they like how it looks?

3) Promote faction unity. There are very very few things that an entire faction can participate in at the same time. Basically, TW, and world bosses. Problem: many faction don't TW, because they don't like to TW. Apparently you can't understand that, but its a simple fact, ACCEPT IT. Problem 2: World bosses are mostly killed by a small handful of elite dders. Rarely are any world bosses alive for more than 2 hours after spawn. Faction can, of course, do 'faction runs' in FC, TT, nirvana, and bhs, but none of these are the product of the entire faction's participation. But now we have the faction base: all members can participate, and 'hanging out' in there is a not-unenjoyable prospect: as mentioned in #2, it is a cool looking place. The actions of every single member help keep the faction base operating, which helps instill a sense of bonding and accomplishment in each faction member.

4) While not exactly game-breaking, the other parts of a faction base (free buffs, runecrafting, cheaper veno pet skills) are still 'nice to have'. That is, no matter what reason(s) your faction acquired the faction base for, nobody should complain about these features. I often find that in the quietest hours of the night, finding people to buff me can be difficult, so free faction base buffs would certainly be useful.

As you can hopefully see, I have given you four solid reasons regarding the use of a faction base that really have little to do with PvE (fighting mobs) or PvP (fighting other players), yet they are valid reasons nonetheless. From what I've gathered, I'm sure many other PvE players had similar thoughts when the faction base was first advertised. A faction base would be FUN.

What is fun to you Rawrgh? PKing against others? I agree with you, I find pking fun. I also find farming TT bosses time and time again fun, as well as levelling new alts. In real life, I enjoy chess and biking and reading books: I have fun doing these activities. Perhaps you have fun dressing up dolls and looking books with pictures of baby kittens. Does this mean I *have* to enjoy the same activities as you? No. Does that mean you have to enjoy the same activities as me? Again, no. So lets get back to the game then: do others have to enjoy PvPing like you do? NO! Let me say that again for emphasis.

Do others have to enjoy PvPing like you do?

NO!

The focal point of your argument is that faction base has nothing 'worth it' for PVE ppl, for which I gave four solid reasons to disprove that. Furthermore, you think far too much in terms of 'what is worth it' cost wise: cost wise, hour per hour,it is much more logical to work in real life, then buy zhen, if one wishes to acquire something in this game. With one hour of work IRL, most people can acquire at least 8 dollars, which will afford you, at current gold prices, roughly 4-5million coins. Only the best of the best farmers can easily pull that much $ out of in-game farming. So why even bother playing the game to get something? It is *sooo* much more *worth it* to use real life money earned through working. Maybe, get this through that thick skull of yours, people do it for FUN. Yes, FUN. I mean, duh, this is a GAME we are playing! People play games for many reasons, but ultimately, games are a form of entertainment. In the sense of being 'worth it', this game does not contribute one iota to a person's in-real-life wealth, or health, or (usually) relationships. By your logic of being 'worth it', it is not 'worth it' to play this game at all. People play this game because they enjoy it, and similarly, I have given you a number of reasons why people may enjoy owning a faction base.

And not one of these reasons *has to* involve PvP *GASP*.

I have proven my point. There are reasons to have a faction base beyond 40 vs 40 group pk. Time to get off your freaking high horse already and accept that your narrow-minded view is not the one-and-only correct view regarding the potential uses of a faction base.

Azzazin

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

My point wasn't that PvE players can't use it, my point is that it's CLEARLY aimed at PvP players, and therefore people shouldn't be surprised that it requires PvP.



These bases are clearly aimed at PvP players, realize this and be prepared to do a bit of PvP in order to enjoy the PvE benefits.

Thats what you beleive fine. Doesn't make it fact nor do others have to beleive it either. So you all just shut the hell up and quit fighting you are getting nowhere.

Then you're just complaining that guild bases weren't specifically catered to you.


The devs chose for them to be PvP based, that's it, end of story.