Petition for Barbarian class.

Cortimis - Dreamweaver
Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
edited January 2011 in General Discussion
This is not about changing anything other than the amount of aggro that Barbarian skills generate.
I would like to see a drastic increase in the effectiveness of aggro generating abilities on the Barbarian class (Penetrate Armor, Flesh Ream, Devour, and Roar).

Please post if you agree!

Edit: Forgot the Untamed Wrath skill.
Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
Post edited by Cortimis - Dreamweaver on
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Comments

  • AuroraLucia - Archosaur
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    For the Demon/Sage versions, I can agree, as that will make Barbs able to tank again rather than have the 5 APS classes constantly steal aggro. However, for the rest of the levels, no.
  • DaggerSin_ - Heavens Tear
    DaggerSin_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 165 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Well with 5.0 Barbs are just for buffing and that's about it. My main before this guy was a barb so I agree, but it is funny when they do take aggro then QQ about it.
    BarbHammer - 95 - Retired

    DaggerSin_ - 101 - Active
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    This is not about changing anything other than the amount of aggro that Barbarian skills generate.
    I would like to see a drastic increase in the effectiveness of aggro generating abilities on the Barbarian class (Penetrate Armor, Flesh Ream, Devour, and Roar).

    Please post if you agree!
    I agree. Not optimistic of this happening of course, but include Untamed Wrath and I'm with you.
  • Axelire - Heavens Tear
    Axelire - Heavens Tear Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    It doesn't solve the issue that Barbarians are no longer the preferred tank in most endgame instances.

    Even if changes were made that high APS/high DPS cannot constantly pull aggro, why waste a spot for a Barbarian when someone who deals greater DPS can tank? Just for buffs?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    DaggerSin_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Well with 5.0 Barbs are just for buffing and that's about it.
    I love it when people prove my point for me.

    Please fix the agrro skills PWE.
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • Cyb_kairu - Sanctuary
    Cyb_kairu - Sanctuary Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »
    For the Demon/Sage versions, I can agree, as that will make Barbs able to tank again rather than have the 5 APS classes constantly steal aggro. However, for the rest of the levels, no.

    I'll half to agree with this one. if it's for every lvl then barbs wouldn't half to even try to hold agro which is part of learning the class and how to play it. demon/sage you *should* know how to play it by now *can't really tell with people still oracle/hyper noobing to that lvl*. but 89 skills certainly should get a severe boost in agro. it'll make barbs wanted in nirvana ect again. *up to 3.0 some barbs can still keep agro if their good*

    now to look at it from the pwe/pwi point of view

    barbs able to keep agro in 5.0 means their wanted in squads again, means 20-25% less 5.0's int the squad, means less people making 5.0 alts instead of just keeping with their barb. all in all if they do that the'll loose money from not forcing 4-5.0 in order to get into a squad. IJS, try to look at it from a business standpoint. even if barbs quit, even more of them will go to 5.0 then quit. this way they gain more then they loose.

    edit: inb4moved
  • Waterfal - Sanctuary
    Waterfal - Sanctuary Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Agreed with op. this would solve at least the problem of people with really high refines grabbing agro.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks Silvychar for the awesome sig :3

    Characters:
    waterfal - lvl 90 demon ferrari veno
    Hazumi_chan - lvl 9x sage seeker
  • Trump - Raging Tide
    Trump - Raging Tide Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    agreed, esp roar and flesh
    more questions asked-more ppl helping to solve-better community-better support...b:bye
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I think Barb's should have a passive skill in Tiger Form that gives an APS boost. I'm thinking... + 1.0APS at level 29, +2.0APS at 49, and +3.0APS at 59. 5.0 Barb in Tiger Form... That would be awesome to see.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • IDecision - Raging Tide
    IDecision - Raging Tide Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Axelire - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It doesn't solve the issue that Barbarians are no longer the preferred tank in most endgame instances.

    Even if changes were made that high APS/high DPS cannot constantly pull aggro, why waste a spot for a Barbarian when someone who deals greater DPS can tank? Just for buffs?

    This is under the assumption that every squad is packed with aps, which isnt the case. Dont get me wrong aps is sure convenient (who doesnt want really fast runs) But there still are people who play wizzies and psys. I agree with OP :)
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »
    For the Demon/Sage versions, I can agree, as that will make Barbs able to tank again rather than have the 5 APS classes constantly steal aggro. However, for the rest of the levels, no.

    The aggro problem only starts lvl90+ indeed, to make barb just some buff goon at 100+. I quit my barb (sage) after a couple off weeks of frustration and boredom at lvl100. The sage/demon lvl aggro skills are really out of date with the current "average" equipment of players.

    I don't think it would solve the problem though. If a bm or sin (or fist archer) can tank the boss, having another high aps would still be faster then having a barb even if he's able to tank (Barb might end up replacing cleric, rather then replacing an aps dd). If the squad needs barb for buffs, then fist-barb will be more wanted then an old-school tiger for same reason.

    To tank again, rerolling a sin was the best thing for me to do. Ever since this toon hit lvl90, I didn't even look at barb cause I'm finally tanking again. b:victory I think by now, even if barb becomes capable of holding aggro again, I wouldn't swap back. Cash is so much easier to get as sin.
  • Axelire - Heavens Tear
    Axelire - Heavens Tear Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    IDecision - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This is under the assumption that every squad is packed with aps, which isnt the case. Dont get me wrong aps is sure convenient (who doesnt want really fast runs) But there still are people who play wizzies and psys. I agree with OP :)

    You only need one high APS that is able to tank in squad to make the Barb's intended purpose greatly diminished.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AuroraLucia - Archosaur
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The aggro problem only starts lvl90+ indeed, to make barb just some buff goon at 100+. I quit my barb (sage) after a couple off weeks of frustration and boredom at lvl100. The sage/demon lvl aggro skills are really out of date with the current "average" equipment of players.

    I don't think it would solve the problem though. If a bm or sin (or fist archer) can tank the boss, having another high aps would still be faster then having a barb even if he's able to tank (Barb might end up replacing cleric, rather then replacing an aps dd). If the squad needs barb for buffs, then fist-barb will be more wanted then an old-school tiger for same reason.

    To tank again, rerolling a sin was the best thing for me to do. Ever since this toon hit lvl90, I didn't even look at barb cause I'm finally tanking again. b:victory I think by now, even if barb becomes capable of holding aggro again, I wouldn't swap back. Cash is so much easier to get as sin.

    Hence the reason why 5 APS should be nerfed. It more than likely won't be, but it should be.
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »
    Hence the reason why 5 APS should be nerfed. It more than likely won't be, but it should be.
    NOOOOOO for the love of all that is un-holy, don't say that, you will derail the whole damn thread!!!!! Please try to keep this to the topic, I would REALLY like for the GM's to at least theoretically take this serious as opposed to "just another QQ thread" D:
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • Gromskull - Harshlands
    Gromskull - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    DaggerSin_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Well with 5.0 Barbs are just for buffing and that's about it. My main before this guy was a barb so I agree, but it is funny when they do take aggro then QQ about it.


    And devour, don't forget about devour (50% phys def reduction)
    The thing that most people don't understand is that a barb is better (in nirvana or any other bosses for that matter) than a DD with under 4aps
  • IDecision - Raging Tide
    IDecision - Raging Tide Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Axelire - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You only need one high APS that is able to tank in squad to make the Barb's intended purpose greatly diminished.

    OK ok you make a good point, can you offer a better solution b:surrender
  • Axelire - Heavens Tear
    Axelire - Heavens Tear Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    IDecision - Raging Tide wrote: »
    OK ok you make a good point, can you offer a better solution b:surrender

    Become one of the infected.
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  • Kinjeto - Raging Tide
    Kinjeto - Raging Tide Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think Barb's should have a passive skill in Tiger Form that gives an APS boost. I'm thinking... + 1.0APS at level 29, +2.0APS at 49, and +3.0APS at 59. 5.0 Barb in Tiger Form... That would be awesome to see.

    Tell you what its funny how there is a 'claw' weapon in this game.

    Thought crossed my mind two days ago about the claw weapon and how its in the game.
    Using claws in tiger?
    Time won't wake/make you wiser, but it will definitely wound you.
    b i t . l y /
    I was a man of ideas and action, but at the same time a gentleman. -- S a Z T u R
    Subtly is never my strong point, but I like to find the gaps in walls and the cracks in bricks.
    Are you kind of seeing what I'm saying. b:bye
  • Kyrael - Dreamweaver
    Kyrael - Dreamweaver Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Ohaithar Cort. b:bye Let's run TT sometime I'm on. Maybe now you can hold aggro from me when I spark. b:cute


    Joking aside, yes, I agree. I play a barb on Lost City as well as my sin and cleric, so I know that even before 90 or 99 any bit of extra DD power makes it hard for barbs to hold aggro. I've done fine on my barb so far with holding against constantly double sparking sins, BMs, etc, but I know that as the levels go up, Flesh Ream will not generate extra aggro, APS will appear, and life will suck.

    So yeah, I vote for demon/sage skills getting a *significant* boost to aggro holding power...
    As if that'll happen.
    b:surrender
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »
    Hence the reason why 5 APS should be nerfed. It more than likely won't be, but it should be.

    I totally agree with you. The main problem isn't in the aggro skills of barb, but in the OP aspect of being able to get such high aps. Also, barb aggro skill tweakz won't solve the problem that face magic classes. Not to mention the insananity of archers doing more damage with lvl85 fists then their bow. I'm the first one to admit sins are freaking OP, even if I play one. As a sage sin I'm able to solo a lot of things I shouldn't be able to do alone.

    APS should be nerfed, someone suggested making -0.05 int => +5% aps and have it build up like -channel does (so 2 +5% adds would be base aps*1.1 and not base aps*1.05^2). Would limit aps too double of base aps, would greatly limit the damage gap between mag and melee aps classes, would make aps bonusses equally good for any weapon type (so we might see sword bms again b:kiss), BUT it would be horribly unfair for the ppl that spend either tons of cash, or tons of time for making their toon OP. So it will never happen.

    We can keep dreaming thoug~

    PS at IDecision : I don't know for your server, but on Sanctuary magic classes are mainly still played for TW. Most high lvl psys and wizzies seem to have rerolled a cleric or archer here... Population is getting limited more and more to red sparks and fists/daggers at 100+ b:sad
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Kyrael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ohaithar Cort. b:bye Let's run TT sometime I'm on. Maybe now you can hold aggro from me when I spark. b:cute

    I sure hope so, got demon True Form now, seems to help a little bit, but it's only from the damage point and not anything to to do with Flesh Ream etc sadly. =\
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • Kyrael - Dreamweaver
    Kyrael - Dreamweaver Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I sure hope so, got demon True Form now, seems to help a little bit, but it's only from the damage point and not anything to to do with Flesh Ream etc sadly. =\

    Demon true form is smexy. b:kiss If I weren't dead tired and working on a project (procrastination ftw) I'd say we should go test it out in TT right when maintenance ends. b:avoid
  • grimreaperhc
    grimreaperhc Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Kyrael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:escape

    It's b:av oid b:chuckle
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  • Kyrael - Dreamweaver
    Kyrael - Dreamweaver Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    GrimReaperHC wrote: »
    It's b:av oid b:chuckle

    ninja'd before my edit. b:sad
  • Hl/ - Harshlands4
    Hl/ - Harshlands4 Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Signed.
    [\10char]
  • IDecision - Raging Tide
    IDecision - Raging Tide Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    PS at IDecision : I don't know for your server, but on Sanctuary magic classes are mainly still played for TW. Most high lvl psys and wizzies seem to have rerolled a cleric or archer here... Population is getting limited more and more to red sparks and fists/daggers at 100+ b:sad

    Same here, and whats ironic is even when you find a squad with wiz/psy etc they all want aps to. Kinda sucks i think every class should have a place in every situation. Be useful you know... "balanced" Anyway since it doesnt look like they are going to do anything about aps maybe they will make a smaller change to our aggro... probably not but "maybe" Until next time.. Stay classy barbs b:bye
  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    **** anyone?

    why do you kitties want to be beaten up that badly?

    well if you want it but no complaining about repairs afterwards     b:chuckle
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • Julian - Dreamweaver
    Julian - Dreamweaver Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I agree, OP.

    However, online petitions never work.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dragono - Lost City
    Dragono - Lost City Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Hey Barb rules forever ^^
    I also think Barbs should be the prefered tank class in PWI cause we were made for it.
    But ii wont work what we do here cause no GM would ever read it and as long as the game gives enough money nothing would be changed.

    And our GM's also cant do anything cause the developer sits in China and develops fo the chinese game.
    We only get the old rest from them.
    I am from Germany and I am sorry if my English isn't very good b:surrender
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think Barb's should have a passive skill in Tiger Form that gives an APS boost. I'm thinking... + 1.0APS at level 29, +2.0APS at 49, and +3.0APS at 59. 5.0 Barb in Tiger Form... That would be awesome to see.

    Words escape me as to how **** this notion is. For starters, you need an axe type weapon to go into tiger form. Axes have insanely high damage compared to claws. If barbs were 3 aps by default in tiger forum, they could get 5 aps automatically just by putting on their tt99 and one of either tome, nirv pants, cape, or LA ornas. Say hi to the newest broken 5aps class with 30k hp and damage output comparable to sins coz they'd be using axes. How about no?
    Kinjeto - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Tell you what its funny how there is a 'claw' weapon in this game.

    Thought crossed my mind two days ago about the claw weapon and how its in the game.
    Using claws in tiger?

    Not sure if this was sarcastic or not but, you CAN glitch going into tiger form with claws. It's considered an exploit and is thus bannable if someone reports you however.
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    APS should be nerfed, someone suggested making -0.05 int => +5% aps and have it build up like -channel does (so 2 +5% adds would be base aps*1.1 and not base aps*1.05^2). Would limit aps too double of base aps, would greatly limit the damage gap between mag and melee aps classes, would make aps bonusses equally good for any weapon type (so we might see sword bms again b:kiss), BUT it would be horribly unfair for the ppl that spend either tons of cash, or tons of time for making their toon OP. So it will never happen.

    This is actually an amazing idea. Tons of QQ granted, but then again there's QQ for everything around here. People would QQ, but they would STILL have the benefit all the -int equip they have, making them equally as desirable as they were before (compared to someone with no -int equip). The only thing that would change is that they wouldn't be able to farm as fast as before.

    However, PWE doesn't give a rats *** so yeah, not gonna happen.
    b:dirty

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