Petition for Barbarian class.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

one time may be funny to some, but for many players to have the same piece of garbage, flashing from the bottom of so many sigs, is annoying, to put it mildly. please find a quieter way to express your ragequit, or better yet, leave, and take the sig with you.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Obviously, even after you're told, the concept of parody eludes you.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

one time may be funny to some, but for many players to have the same piece of garbage, flashing from the bottom of so many sigs, is annoying, to put it mildly. please find a quieter way to express your ragequit, or better yet, leave, and take the sig with you.

Why do I have a sense of deja vu..

Oh, right! From a previous topic..

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if you hate this game so much, as your completely obnoxious sig screams, why dont you just leave, and let those of us who still love it here in peace?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you're going to derail a topic with a personal attack at least make sure your reading comprehension skills are above third grade level. Until then keep reading the sig over and over 'til it hits you what is actually being said, and maybe try to stay on topic?

b:laugh

At one point the fact that this sig is making fun of ragequitters and melodramatic "game is dead" users is going to hit your feeble mind, along with the concept of what a parody is. When it does, send me a "lol", k?

Azura - Lost City

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think Barb's should have a passive skill in Tiger Form that gives an APS boost. I'm thinking... + 1.0APS at level 29, +2.0APS at 49, and +3.0APS at 59. 5.0 Barb in Tiger Form... That would be awesome to see.

You are nuts...

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

You are nuts...

Probably. I laughed every time I saw a 5 APS barb attacking in tiger form so far.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

its **very** difficult to read a post or thread when this kind of sig is detracting from the OP's material on so many threads. wherever i go, at some point, this found. has it ever occured to you that for many people it makes it difficult or even painful to have that flashing? God help anyone with epilepsy or who have siezures, because this kind of thing can cause them a lot of trouble.

show a bit of courtesy, and please switch to something unflashing. or go back to the 1970s, where everything was flashy.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why do I have a sense of deja vu..

Oh, right! From a previous topic..




b:laugh

At one point the fact that this sig is making fun of ragequitters and melodramatic "game is dead" users is going to hit your feeble mind, along with the concept of what a parody is. When it does, send me a "lol", k?

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Xyar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i haven't read all the post in this thread but there is actually a way to make the aps problem go away, but it does need a few steps.

I wonder if you and I would agree on our definitions of "the aps problem".

Personally, I suspect we might not.

From my point of view, the "aps problem" is that we do not have enough content where 5aps is not the best answer.

And we know that they can make such content: snowmen, delta, normal monsters, puzzle rooms, and so on, are all places where 5aps has been like a fish with a bicycle. So its nothing fundamentally broken about the game itself.

I think its just that we have too much end game content where the 5aps approach is the best approach, and not enough of any other kind of content.

Once upon a time, I remember threads where people complained about the lack of challenges other than bosses with huge amounts of health. So, someone found out how to efficiently deal with that kind of challenge and its time for some new challenges. (And, I expect that the Genesis expansion will includes some of those new challenges.)

But I would like if barbarians could hold aggro better...

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think Barb's should have a passive skill in Tiger Form that gives an APS boost. I'm thinking... + 1.0APS at level 29, +2.0APS at 49, and +3.0APS at 59. 5.0 Barb in Tiger Form... That would be stupidly broken with demon barbs using axes.

Fixed.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fixed.

what he said.

Biased upgrade for barb skill is biased yob:bye

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

its **very** difficult to read a post or thread when this kind of sig is detracting from the OP's material on so many threads. wherever i go, at some point, this found. has it ever occured to you that for many people it makes it difficult or even painful to have that flashing? God help anyone with epilepsy or who have siezures, because this kind of thing can cause them a lot of trouble.

show a bit of courtesy, and please switch to something unflashing. or go back to the 1970s, where everything was flashy.

Firstly, you obviously could read and understand the sig to enough of a degree to respond so pompously. That's why you commented on it. You just misinterpreted it, at least on two different occasions you decided to jump into a thread and comment on my sig. Hence why I'm not buying, nor am sympathetic to that argument..

Secondly, going from telling me to **** off and remove the sig because it's not your flavor of humor (humor which you didn't even grasp at first), which didn't work, to now it can cause people with epilepsy to have an episode (I'm pretty sure the flashing from fox form myriad rainbow on a large group of mobs would be way worse, at least, given the experience of dealing with an uncle with epilepsy) isn't going to win any favors either.

Thirdly, can you take down your sig of a moving fox with makeup on? PETA doesn't approve of testing makeup on animals. Also, I have an uncontrollable inclination to discharge an SG550 at foxes when I see them running around in constant motion.

Fourthly, PWI really needs to make barb aggro skills stronger.

Empu - Sanctuary

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

From my point of view, the "aps problem" is that we do not have enough content where 5aps is not the best answer.

It's interesting you bring this up : the definition of "aps problem". That definition will be different from person to person.

For me "aps problem" is an outbalance created by massive chi gain that results from the exponential effect of -interval gear on aps based weapons (fists and daggers). With outbalance I mean that any class would be the most efficient DD using fists (besides sins that better use daggers ofc). Archers using fists rather then bow even when nothing is forcing them to be close to the boss is an outbalance imo. Each class should be most efficient using his own weapon (and skills).

This is why I believe, the one and only way to bring balance back, is to solve to change the effect of -int adds. The fact it builds up exponentially is creating the "aps problem" (ofc from my point of view). Any tweaks in content, on skills, casters att power etc would be inefficient. Rather solve the heart of the problem then just keep easing it's bad effects.

Xyar - Sanctuary

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wonder if you and I would agree on our definitions of "the aps problem".

our definitions are somewhat similar. mine is more towards aps forcing everyone else out of their jobs.

no one needs barbs to tank in high lvls any more, a sin, which is suppose to be a squishy and an attack-then-run class with light armor and even tank and much better than a barb can.

no one needs clerics to heal anymore, there's bp

no one needs magic DDs any more cos the damage output is nowhere near as much as an aps toon.

this might seem like a rant but seriously, everyone and their mother, their grandma, their sister, their brother, their baby sitter...(you get the point) plays an aps toon. the game no longer has the variety it had before with everyone playing a vital roll in a squad.

i am not one that suggests aps should be nerfed to 2 or 3 or whatever, as that will be incredibly unfair to everyone who has spent a lot of money making their toons. instead, i suggest giving magic users the option to be able to spend money and be on par with the aps. this will balance out the game and the magic classes can be played again. also, give archers the option to be able to deal similar amount of damage with a BOW as an aps. and as a said before, increase barb's skill aggro proportionally.

Sternenwind - Dreamweaver

Am agree.
More aggro skills for barbs or less APS for the others.

Tojop - Dreamweaver

I agree w/OP. Barbs were relegated to buff-bots before even clerics were; it was all very awkward for me. Make with the aggro skills b:angry

LShattered - Heavens Tear

Xyar - Sanctuary wrote: »

our definitions are somewhat similar. mine is more towards aps forcing everyone else out of their jobs.

no one needs barbs to tank in high lvls any more, a sin, which is suppose to be a squishy and an attack-then-run class with light armor and even tank and much better than a barb can.

no one needs clerics to heal anymore, there's bp

no one needs magic DDs any more cos the damage output is nowhere near as much as an aps toon.

this might seem like a rant but seriously, everyone and their mother, their grandma, their sister, their brother, their baby sitter...(you get the point) plays an aps toon. the game no longer has the variety it had before with everyone playing a vital roll in a squad.

i am not one that suggests aps should be nerfed to 2 or 3 or whatever, as that will be incredibly unfair to everyone who has spent a lot of money making their toons. instead, i suggest giving magic users the option to be able to spend money and be on par with the aps. this will balance out the game and the magic classes can be played again. also, give archers the option to be able to deal similar amount of damage with a BOW as an aps. and as a said before, increase barb's skill aggro proportionally.

I don't, have, never will go back.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

@OP

there was river topic about barbs some time ago and it was stated there, that changing aggro skills wont fix anything, unless bosses gonna be harder, and require some high hp pool to tank (or what Fleuri wrote).

why waste spot for slow-tank, when some aps can tank? also point, about devour as debuff is weak; it is 50% debuff, while cleric have 40% and veno chance to make it 100%. 10% difference in debuff, would mean like 3-4% more raw damage.. not much

as someone pointed it already, better aggro skills for barb would make squads want to replace cleric or veno prolly.

SlayersSin - Heavens Tear

I quit my 101 sage barb for this very reason... rerolled a sin, who just does a better job, at pretty much everything my barb could do except RB. My barb was wanted in Frost, but my sin can SOLO Frost.... there's a huge difference. I miss my barb sometimes but i doubt i'll go back, even if they fix agro skills.

This is probably exactly what they (pwi) wanted me to do. Best way for them to get our money is to make us reroll a new toon, as many will be doing next month. b:shutupb:laugh

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

--i am deliberately ignoring your so called 'humour" of your sig-it isnt funny, just freaking annoying.

--my sig is what you would see often, if you ever played the game. the makeup is not of my choice, so go yell at the Chinese dude who did it.

--when a veno changes form, its in a cloud of flower petals. as for myrad rainbow, dont look at me-i dont have that skill, so go tell venos who do to stop, and see how far you get.

--if you dont like animals in games, you really are in the wrong game, because PWI is full of them.

--lastly, yes, barbs do need better aggro. both my son and i play them, he is very good at it,and our family run instances together, with him as our tank. so more power to barbs! ^_^

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Secondly, going from telling me to **** off and remove the sig because it's not your flavor of humor (humor which you didn't even grasp at first), which didn't work, to now it can cause people with epilepsy to have an episode (I'm pretty sure the flashing from fox form myriad rainbow on a large group of mobs would be way worse, at least, given the experience of dealing with an uncle with epilepsy) isn't going to win any favors either.

Thirdly, can you take down your sig of a moving fox with makeup on? PETA doesn't approve of testing makeup on animals. Also, I have an uncontrollable inclination to discharge an SG550 at foxes when I see them running around in constant motion.

Fourthly, PWI really needs to make barb aggro skills stronger.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

--i am deliberately ignoring your so called 'humour" of your sig-it isnt funny, just freaking annoying.

--my sig is what you would see often, if you ever played the game. the makeup is not of my choice, so go yell at the Chinese dude who did it.

--when a veno changes form, its in a cloud of flower petals. as for myrad rainbow, dont look at me-i dont have that skill, so go tell venos who do to stop, and see how far you get.

--if you dont like animals in games, you really are in the wrong game, because PWI is full of them.

--lastly, yes, barbs do need better aggro. both my son and i play them, he is very good at it,and our family run instances together, with him as our tank. so more power to barbs! ^_^

What I'm trying to figure out is if you're ignoring that type of humor, why are you responding at all? Most of it is just mocking your post much similar to the way the sig mocks "game is dead" nerdrage. I sarcasm and parody.

However:

- If you don't like flashy images, your browser has a nifty setting to block them. My wife works with people who have epilepsy and those who would be so bad as to seizure over browsing the internet or playing video games tend not to engage in either activity instead of expecting others to cater to every person's individual situation or problem. That's the correct solution there.

- .. therefore, ignoring the blatant sarcasm, I would not ask venos to stop using myriad rainbow. Why? Because I don't care. Flashy things don't bother me and if they did there's a setting to tone down the effects of them. Just like the browser thing. Cool stuff huh.

- If you don't like sarcasm or parody then move to another planet. I heard they're building a 100 Year Spaceship to leave our galaxy. If you live long enough, maybe you can find a planet and name it "boring shrewd", where sarcasm and parody don't exist.

Just a thought.

Sternenwind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Am agree.
More aggro skills for barbs or less APS for the others.

It's more simple and feasible (and thus works with the "least effort as possible" mantra of those who develop PWI) to fix the hate a barb aggro skill does, as it surely is just a number. OTOH, changing APS requires changing current sets of gear that add -int, or changing a cap to effectively make useless sets of gear people already have. After all of the laziness in terms of coding the devs have effectively done, I'm pretty sure capping APS or modifying interval values of gear would be a nail in the coffin after they've so extensively pushed APS stuff.

They have extensively catered to APS so the logical thing is to create content where APS is of little value. It was mentioned numerous times to make new bosses do the attack rate debuff, but to a higher degree. And hell, they like making bosses say stuff, so why not "ALL UR APS R BELONG TO ME", then the boss buffs itself and increases it's own attack rate while debuffing the squad's.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"ALL UR APS R BELONG TO ME".

holy **** I just died laughing


That aside, barbs do need their aggro levels to be increased (especially for sunder, in my opinion)
That we can all agree on. My question is..where's the petition? Where do I sign my name? b:puzzled

Also you two people fighting ...
*sprays with water*
Stop it! bad!

DeLetar - Sanctuary

Cyb_kairu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'll half to agree with this one. if it's for every lvl then barbs wouldn't half to even try to hold agro which is part of learning the class and how to play it. demon/sage you *should* know how to play it by now *can't really tell with people still oracle/hyper noobing to that lvl*. but 89 skills certainly should get a severe boost in agro. it'll make barbs wanted in nirvana ect again. *up to 3.0 some barbs can still keep agro if their good*

now to look at it from the pwe/pwi point of view

barbs able to keep agro in 5.0 means their wanted in squads again, means 20-25% less 5.0's int the squad, means less people making 5.0 alts instead of just keeping with their barb. all in all if they do that the'll loose money from not forcing 4-5.0 in order to get into a squad. IJS, try to look at it from a business standpoint. even if barbs quit, even more of them will go to 5.0 then quit. this way they gain more then they loose.

edit: inb4moved

Playing on my main, I have been in Nirvana instances where an axe wielding barb is successfully able to keep aggro off of the 5 APS characters. It requires constant bramble (only on the barb, none of the other physical casters may have it to help keep aggro), spark passing from veno, chi- gain skill and constant spamming of all aggroing skills.

Adding more aggro to the skills will create even lazier players than we already have in game now. I am only pointing out that it can already be done, but most barbs just don't want to tank anymore, or so it seems. After, one of the biggest hurtles for playing a barb was the cost of playing. Letting a sin or bm tank takes that nail in the coffin away.

Also: Personally, I do not believe high APS is a problem onto itself. It is a problem when impatient players just want to get things done and not effectively learn anything. I have seen sage sins with 2 or 3 APS tops steal aggro from demon sins with 4-5, having the same weapon and refines. I, myself, don't plan to go demon just for an attack increase- if I do go demon, it will be for the skills' effects gained from demon or sage path (which I already looked into and found sage to be much more fitting to how I play at this point in time).

MorkFromOrk - Heavens Tear

Agree. Just increase the power of agro skills. While I think fist barbs are a crime against nature if that is what is needed to be a big money player on super fast runs go for it but you cannot boast the DD firepower in the game without increasing tank agro skills. Let me be a meat shield and protect my squad.

Barbs have always been an expensive class so not being the richest player is fine by me. I just want to do my job.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I overheard this conversation in an alternate reality where barbs had working aggro skills.

Barb: Uggh this 5.0 is tanking thats my job! I'm gonna use aggro skills so I'll be tanking!

5.0: Well I'm tanking fine but whatever I don't care.

Barb: Wooo now the boss is hitting me instead! I am now totally needed in this squad!

5.0: Not really.

Barb: Hey since I'm the pro tank here I get first pick on mats.

5.0: GTFO.

Katzyn - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I overheard this conversation in an alternate reality where barbs had working aggro skills.

I could definitely see this happening in some cases...

In others, I just see the barb feeling useful again in Nirvana (my poor Barb friend...) b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Cortimis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would like to see a drastic increase in the effectiveness of aggro generating abilities on the Barbarian class (Penetrate Armor, Flesh Ream, Devour, and Roar).

Please post if you agree!

id say that this is actually a legit petition >.>

all the barb is asking is to allow him to do his job better <.< and not on the expense of other classes.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I overheard this conversation in an alternate reality where barbs had working aggro skills.

that sounds like astypoo

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

I could definitely see this happening in some cases...

In others, I just see the barb feeling useful again in Nirvana (my poor Barb friend...) b:chuckle

It used to be incredibly common for barbs to demand first pick of mats, even gold mats. Seems they're a lil' bit more humble now.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It used to be incredibly common for barbs to demand first pick of mats, even gold mats. Seems they're a lil' bit more humble now.

And thats why i love 5aps b:pleased, though some barbs these days are nice, though there are some greedy ones out there

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

DeLetar - Sanctuary wrote: »

insert bs troll post filled with some more bs and a bs cherry on top here

Fail troll is fail.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Troll Cake

Katzyn - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It used to be incredibly common for barbs to demand first pick of mats, even gold mats. Seems they're a lil' bit more humble now.

Yeah...the threat of becoming entirely obsolete tends to humble even the most arrogant and greedy. =( My friend was never like that though, thankfully. Just a regular ole nice guy. =D

Hmm...that makes me wonder how an old barb friend would react, upon returning to the game...I think he pretty much quit before all the aps hype...He was pretty damn arrogant back then, lol.