Fists & Claws break PWI ?
Comments
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Demon Blazing Arrow would be used once before entering combat, same as we'd use DBB once at most in beginning of chain. If you seriously believe we'll both waste the time, and still have the sparks to use DBB after the initial time, you have a very unrealistic view of what a BM should be doing in PvP. If we are using it, then we are obviously on a high defense target that we'll be dropping everything on, leaving no sparks. If it's not, why waste the time?
In PvE, does it even need to be mentioned how much time is wasted on weapon swapping and such when spark attacking is better? Especially as most TT bosses have much higher ele defense over phys defense?
With regards to current mechanics being kept, I don't care who uses fists. If they are looking to revamp damage balance: not just interval but the balance of ALL existing refines, speeds, and class role; then I am in favor of making them BM only and making any adjustments accordingly to balance all classes and weapons. Anything else really seems like a band-aid, because I can already tell ya capping fists won't do jack.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
You're not understanding the purpose of using the weapon swap glitches. What happens is the additional effect (fire damage added or 100% crit) activates without actually casting the skill. Thus, you spend about half a second to gain an additional effect, without using the 2 sparks. When I say "messing up massively lowers your DPS", I mean allowing the ulti to actually cast, and thus burn sparks.Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Demon Blazing Arrow would be used once before entering combat, same as we'd use DBB once at most in beginning of chain. If you seriously believe we'll both waste the time, and still have the sparks to use DBB after the initial time, you have a very unrealistic view of what a BM should be doing in PvP. If we are using it, then we are obviously on a high defense target that we'll be dropping everything on, leaving no sparks. If it's not, why waste the time?
In PvE, does it even need to be mentioned how much time is wasted on weapon swapping and such when spark attacking is better? Especially as most TT bosses have much higher ele defense over phys defense?
Naturally, this is something that would only be useful in PvE, and even then only if you get it right.
Demon Heaven's Flame is the only one that is actually used all the way, since the 7 seconds or so of double damage outweighs the 3 or 4 seconds of autoattacking that are lost.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »You're not understanding the purpose of using the weapon swap glitches. What happens is the additional effect (fire damage added or 100% crit) activates without actually casting the skill. Thus, you spend about half a second to gain an additional effect, without using the 2 sparks. When I say "messing up massively lowers your DPS", I mean allowing the ulti to actually cast, and thus burn sparks.
Naturally, this is something that would only be useful in PvE, and even then only if you get it right.
Demon Heaven's Flame is the only one that is actually used all the way, since the 7 seconds or so of double damage outweighs the 3 or 4 seconds of autoattacking that are lost.
I don't? Huh, and here I thought I had made a combo utilizing both cancel casting and aftercast canceling to max effect with regards to weapon swap in a BM thread 2 or 3 weeks ago that had the benefit of actually not sucking. And was actually based in reality, and tested. Actually, I think I already mentioned messing up made it cost the 2 sparks in this very thread, so no idea where this post came from.
Again, mobs have higher resistance to element damage than they do to physical for the most part, a few exceptions exist such as in CoA. And again, reality vs. fantasy. You'd need to do DBB before trip sparking in PvE, due to that, you're losing 4-5 seconds of the buff from channeling spark, weapon swapping, and aftercast hitting at least once. And you'd need to ensure you don't accidentally auto-attack with weapon swap on a skill delay, or it pushes you further back. So a whole lot of effort, around 10 or less seconds of fire damage off of weapon only, on mobs that are more resistant to that than your phys damage, when you're boosting your damage multiple to 8.75+. Seriously, who the heck is gonna waste time doing that over and over in PvE if they just need 2 buttons? If they really want extra damage, a poison pot saves time, and would dilute the benefit of cancel casting DBB in PvE to an even lower amount of damage. Who does this?Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
We just hashed over this in the veno forums. Actually, most world bosses have higher physical defense than elemental. FF, and Lunar seem to be biased towards higher elemental defense. Rebirth seems biased towards higher physical defense. Regular mobs and TT seem to have a slight bias towards higher elemental defense.Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Again, mobs have higher resistance to element damage than they do to physical for the most part, a few exceptions exist such as in CoA.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8210562#post8210562
Triple spark -> genie skill -> DBB?You'd need to do DBB before trip sparking in PvE, due to that, you're losing 4-5 seconds of the buff from channeling spark, weapon swapping, and aftercast hitting at least once.0 -
My apologies, I don't follow the BM forum very often. I guess I misinterpreted your previous post, and made a few assumptions I shouldn't have as a result. However, I did state, multiple times, that messing it up or simply not being quick enough at it negates the benefit and then some.Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't? Huh, and here I thought I had made a combo utilizing both cancel casting and aftercast canceling to max effect with regards to weapon swap in a BM thread 2 or 3 weeks ago that had the benefit of actually not sucking. And was actually based in reality, and tested. Actually, I think I already mentioned messing up made it cost the 2 sparks in this very thread, so no idea where this post came from.
Nobody. I never said it was practical. I simply said that it's possible, and that if perfectly done, could yield higher DPS.Seriously, who the heck is gonna waste time doing that over and over in PvE if they just need 2 buttons? If they really want extra damage, a poison pot saves time, and would dilute the benefit of cancel casting DBB in PvE to an even lower amount of damage. Who does this?
Anyway, I think we've derailed this badly enough as it is.0 -
As far as I can tell Dark, you admit that that 5 Attack/sec is overpowered but it's ok because it needs a **** ton of money.
(Btw venos soloing TT is a fail comparision, because they offset their gain by taking longer than a normal squad while a 5 aps bm takes less time, therefore making it nothing alike)
So, following your train of thought, let's say that next pack (summer packs anyone?) comes out with some -25% rings and someone really nice other -channeling gear. Let's say this gear allows casting classes to break the casting barriar causing insta-cast?
I, personally, would say this is broken. But according to you it's just fine for to a wizard to run around with no casting time. I mean that would make a 5 aps bm look like a *****.
And of course, you wouldn't QQ at all when this happens, because they spent money for all that - channeling gear.
Insta-cast wizards/clerics/veno/psy wouldn't bother you at all...... right?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »Erm , I assume it should work like DBB thus you don't have to channel the full skill , you just need it to start then cancel it right away (work's best by swapping with another weap) to get the buff , then ofc swap back to fists . Besides that only make's it easier , it's canceling a 3 sec channel skill vs a 0.6 one.
er no, actually if you switch to a non-ranged weapon you KEEP channeling, and when you finish channeling, nothing happens, not even the regular blazing arrow buff, but you still consume 400 mana for demon blazing. switching weapons work for stunning arrow's crit buff and quickshot's quicken buff, but not blazing arrow at all. my guess is, stunning arrow, DBB, etc are all attacks that gets interrupted when you switch weapons, but blazing arrow is a self buff, so it works differently
edit: bah someone answered that already...lolElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »As far as I can tell Dark, you admit that that 5 Attack/sec is overpowered but it's ok because it needs a **** ton of money.
I DID NOT SAY THAT. QUOTE ME DIRECTLY INSTEAD OF PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.(Btw venos soloing TT is a fail comparision, because they offset their gain by taking longer than a normal squad while a 5 aps bm takes less time, therefore making it nothing alike)
I didn't say it was anything alike you idiot. A veno can even solo their own BHs for their level except for bh29 and bh69. So from the beginning $180 gives you the ability to do most anything except for a few bosses along the way. You're talking like a 5aps BM just drops into everyone's laps... omg it such a huge problem, they're all over the place. No, the only time a 5aps BM can really exist is near end-game... meaning you have to get there first. Please explain how what time it takes to do actually means squat? (feel free to answer that in any context either)So, following your train of thought, let's say that next pack (summer packs anyone?) comes out with some -25% rings and someone really nice other -channeling gear. Let's say this gear allows casting classes to break the casting barriar causing insta-cast?
I didn't say that either. Have you ever seen what a end-game cleric or mage can do with instant channeling pots? No... probably not.Personally, would say this is broken. But according to you it's just fine for to a wizard to run around with no casting time. I mean that would make a 5 aps bm look like a *****.
And of course, you wouldn't QQ at all when this happens, because they spent money for all that - channeling gear.
Insta-cast wizards/clerics/veno/psy wouldn't bother you at all...... right?
If you actually knew anything about the game or what you are talking about... Wizards are already broken.
5aps BM will have a tough fight against an equally geared end=game wizard. But of course, you should know that... but apparently you don't.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
This thread is hilarious.0
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Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »I didn't say that either. Have you ever seen what a end-game cleric or mage can do with instant channeling pots? No... probably not.
If you actually knew anything about the game or what you are talking about... Wizards are already broken.
5aps BM will have a tough fight against an equally geared end=game wizard. But of course, you should know that... but apparently you don't.
Instant channeling pots? Where do I get those b:shocked Cast time is still static, and -chan gives diminishing returns.
And if mages are broken, how is it an equal fight? b:surrenderBladestorm lets you spin around like a carnival ride and do damage. Not using it is almost like having a move called Confetti Rocket Power Leap and saving it for "emergencies"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nakhimov the Kingslayer of Kil'Jaeden's <Criminal Scum>
wowprogress.com/guild/us/kil-jaeden/Criminal+Scum0 -
VVVVVVVVVMichael_dark - Lost City wrote: »I DID NOT SAY THAT. QUOTE ME DIRECTLY INSTEAD OF PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Limiting fists/claws to BM only would be breaking it even further, IMO.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote:In all honesty, fist archers are far more broken than fist BMMichael_dark - Lost City wrote: »LOL @ the people who thought I was directly correlating fist BM DPS vs Wizard spike damage in anything more than stating the fact that at end-game, they're both broken classes.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote:Does spending so much money or in-game coin give you the right to be overpowered? Look at just about any class... if you dump $3k-10k on a build, yeah, it's going to pretty much destroy any non-cash shopper, no matter what the class.
^ I think it's possible to say it looks like that's what you're saying, that's a lot of saying -interval bms are broken... but I guess you didn't say overpowered per se so we'll let that slide.
~~~~Michael_dark - Lost City wrote:I didn't say it was anything alike you idiot. A veno can even solo their own BHs for their level except for bh29 and bh69. So from the beginning $180 gives you the ability to do most anything except for a few bosses along the way. You're talking like a 5aps BM just drops into everyone's laps... omg it such a huge problem, they're all over the place. No, the only time a 5aps BM can really exist is near end-game... meaning you have to get there first. Please explain how what time it takes to do actually means squat? (feel free to answer that in any context either)
VVVVV I got the reference from there.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote:The thing is, a fist user already *has* spent a ton of coin or RL$ to become a viable -int user. You can say the same thing about Rank 8, Nirvana Bow, fist/claw Archers. This argument isn't a whole lot different than complaining about venos who can solo the low and mid TT runs by themselves. Any two pieces cheaper pieces of end-game -int gear would cost as much as a herc, the rest are quite a bit more expensive. If you pour that kind of money into an archer, you can do much of the same things except the archer is far more versatile.
~~~~~Michael_dark - Lost City wrote:I didn't say that either. Have you ever seen what a end-game cleric or mage can do with instant channeling pots? No... probably not.
I'll admit my mistake on this one. I was remembering Escorian's post, all the bm avatars look the same >.< (why are ya'll bald btw?)Michael_dark - Lost City wrote:If you actually knew anything about the game or what you are talking about... Wizards are already broken.
5aps BM will have a tough fight against an equally geared end=game wizard. But of course, you should know that... but apparently you don't.
^If you read what I have been saying, I'm not talking PvP, this is strictly PvE that I'm dealing with.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »A veno can even solo their own BHs for their level except for bh29 and bh69. So from the beginning $180 gives you the ability to do most anything except for a few bosses along the way. You're talking like a 5aps BM just drops into everyone's laps... omg it such a huge problem, they're all over the place. No, the only time a 5aps BM can really exist is near end-game... meaning you have to get there first. Please explain how what time it takes to do actually means squat? (feel free to answer that in any context either)
i havent seen a game were summoners were not able to solo stuff that other classes had to do it in party but here is harder to do it with so called free pets so you have to pay for one that can do better but not all0 -
i think that really the fist and claws would be only for bm cuz the bm have special skill only for this weapons and if the archers QQing then make a bm for play, and dont wish to become in one class that u cant, archers with fist will be end and if in china they change this,(fist and claws only for bm) its really the most great idea i hope to see this soon b:bye0
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whyyy Dx0
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*shoots zombie thread in the head at 5 bullets per second*
NO you stay dead damitb:angryGifs are hard to make work here0 -
A Simple Test of Balance:
If as a wizard/psychic/cleric i spend the exact same amount of $$ on gear as a fully 5aps geared barb/bm/archer/sin then i should be able to tank and dps for the same as them right? I should be able to farm TT/FC to my hearts content right?
As for the person earlier in the thread stating that barbs/BMs SHOULD do more dps than wizzies/psychics "because they lack range", are you for real? wtf do you think you have that massive hp pool? that post cracked me up due to its blatant bias and ignorance.
right you all want the cake, cookies, milk and everything in the cupboard, and everyone else can just be your foot stools right?
well of all things in PWI this is the most broken of them all. Have fun playing ClaWorld.0 -
Shalis - Harshlands wrote: »A Simple Test of Balance:
If as a wizard/psychic/cleric i spend the exact same amount of $$ on gear as a fully 5aps geared barb/bm/archer/sin then i should be able to tank and dps for the same as them right? I should be able to farm TT/FC to my hearts content right?
As for the person earlier in the thread stating that barbs/BMs SHOULD do more dps than wizzies/psychics "because they lack range", are you for real? wtf do you think you have that massive hp pool? that post cracked me up due to its blatant bias and ignorance.
right you all want the cake, cookies, milk and everything in the cupboard, and everyone else can just be your foot stools right?
well of all things in PWI this is the most broken of them all. Have fun playing ClaWorld.
eh dont bother. in the end, all they care about is coins, giving everyone the ability to farm as fast is against the 5aps bm/sin/archer/barb profit. it's funny when they try to cover it with lame excuses like pvp/dphb:cute0 -
does this sum up the thinking so far?
PWI is now Free to Play, Pay for Fist to Win?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
wow nobody QQ'ed about Fist veno? seriously. thats most OP. fist veno actually gets most dmg out of all bm/barb/archer etc. in fox form. also good def. accuracy etc. not to mention you can combo it with herc/nix. even more OP.0
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wow nobody QQ'ed about Fist veno? seriously. thats most OP. fist veno actually gets most dmg out of all bm/barb/archer etc. in fox form. also good def. accuracy etc. not to mention you can combo it with herc/nix. even more OP.
Well fist veno glitching fox form is bannable
so if u QQ about them they get banned which is probably why u dont see ppl QQing about them in forums.
@the guy who said only bms should be allowed to use fists because they have skills for them.....
Dude. Most of A fist/claw barb/cleric/archer/bm's power lies in just sparked but otherwise regular fast hits. skills dont have so much to do with it. In fact if you have fists and high aps would using those fist skills mostly be a waste? unless u havent demon sparked and are using the one that increases attack speed0 -
wow nobody QQ'ed about Fist veno? seriously. thats most OP. fist veno actually gets most dmg out of all bm/barb/archer etc. in fox form. also good def. accuracy etc. not to mention you can combo it with herc/nix. even more OP.
5.0 dagger sin is alot higher dps and don't worry, lots of people "QQ" about them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
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what about these ppl who have spent a fortune on game to get what they have (archers with deicides or sins), and ref-ed em up to like +10 and bound them ?
You telling me they gonna be refunded what they have spent in gold, coz clearly bound = unsellable.
tbh i think it is stupid to kick these ppl where it hurts, if u guys decide to stop archers/sins/what ever other classes using what weps they have e.g claws, fist, bows after they have lined your pockets with there constant purchases of gold to gain what they have.
you need players to purchase to keep profits up, no profits = no funding, no funding = no progression in the future = EPIC FAIL in the end.
no sensible person who has thrown money at the game to get what they have, to lose it are going to throw more money at the game in the future, i for one would surely quit (charges main a/c regular).i would feel i would be making decisions that can't be trusted to remain in the future.
Think about your actionsb:angry0 -
Fists/Claws should have been limited to BM from day 1, and Bow should be Archer only. Slingshot should be all-class, IMO. b:chuckle
Really, which one would take more specialized training? A bow, or a slingshot?101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
necro0
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Hakiii - Heavens Tear wrote: »If they make it where I can't use fists that pretty much takes away one of my motives for leveling higher. And the fun diversity/experimentation of the game.
you could try for this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ca84dede24d2502d o.00 -
This guy have 10 speed sparked ofc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdSY-_qs_mg&feature=related
b:shocked0 -
Tripple necro, closed.
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