Fists & Claws break PWI ?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Don't forget the newest trick archers are using to make BMs seem too over-powered while over-shadowing one of the reasons claws are being considered changed to BM only weapons.

Cancel casting DBB. Getting a 59 skill without using sparks, why that does sound oh so powerful. At least to people who have no knowledge of it, it does seem pretty good. Realistically, it's not.

Compare these two things:

120% fire damage for 20 seconds, castable any time, and 50% fire damage for the next 9 mins and 30 secs later. Must be able to press a button to use.

135% fire damage for 15 seconds, must have a target within 2m to use. Must swap weapon before it starts channeling, or you lose 2 sparks. Also, must have 2 sparks to use as well.

Now when presented this way, which is more powerful? The top buff is what archers get, and means they can deal more damage than a BM with fists even with low str and no mastery depending on the target. We need to cancel cast, and have all these conditions, in order to get the second buff as a BM. And yet they bring up cancel casting as something unfair for BMs to use?

Blazing Arrow was most likely balanced with bows in mind. To balance all class skills for the possibility they may use fists was likely deemed more unfair than simply restricting claws/fists to BM only. So please leave out pointless tangents for what makes fist BMs OP when the above example is a very good reason of why claws/fists should be made BM only. Seeing someone argue against in and then use a point that shows cluelessness is just something I have to point out, if only to not see useless posts in a debate.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5DJSO_7sCs

^chezedude and Ajay duoing illusion lord

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0zOEAhgB7Q&feature=PlayList&p=E8251F74A20FD309&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=53

^Fist barb solo DDing a World Boss in 30 minutes

Don't even try to give some half-**** attempt to say -invterval with claws isn't broken.

Find me another individual that can do that alone in that amount of time without claws or a crapton of -interval gear and then we'll talk.

P.S. Don't post some bull **** build with OHT wrists with -18% channeling on it.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

If you guys want crossbows and slingshots you can have them lol. All the good end game ranged weapons are bows and those are all-class. But I agree to make xbows and slings all class as well. No point in restricting access to those but keeping bows open.

Brigid - Harshlands

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

120% fire damage for 20 seconds, castable any time, and 50% fire damage for the next 9 mins and 30 secs later. Must be able to press a button to use.

That's % of weapon damage, by the way. It ignores rings, sparks, whatever. The temporary bonus effect is useless, except at the very beginning, due to the long cast time. You're not going to spend 4 seconds to gain a few hundred points of damage while fighting. Fist Mastery is 60% of weapon damage, at level 10. 75% at level 11. 60% > 50%. Need I say more?

135% fire damage for 15 seconds, must have a target within 2m to use. Must swap weapon before it starts channeling, or you lose 2 sparks. Also, must have 2 sparks to use as well.

Because fist BMs are ranged DDs, not melee? And fist BMs are clearly short on chi all of the time.

Basically, Blazing arrow is irrelevant. It narrows the gap between a fist BM and a fist archer, that's all. The majority of fist damage comes from the high attack rate and near-constant triple sparking, not from elemental buffs worth a fraction of weapon damage.

The only real advantages a fist archer has over a fist BM are the -interval rank tops and a higher crit rate. Fist Mastery more than balances Blazing Arrow.

Furthermore, for true maximum DPS as a 5aps fist BM, you're going to be using a very convoluted cycle of demon sparks, ulti cancels, and Heaven's Flame. I worked it out in another thread somewhere, can't be bothered digging it up atm. Basically, you alternate canceling L11 fist ultis and L11 pole ultis, and throw in a non-canceled L11 Heaven's Flame every other Triple Spark cycle. You still maintain near-perma-spark status, and do absolutely ridiculous damage during the Heaven's Flame.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you guys want crossbows and slingshots you can have them lol. All the good end game ranged weapons are bows and those are all-class. But I agree to make xbows and slings all class as well. No point in restricting access to those but keeping bows open.

That's actually something that has bugged me ever since I started this game. In real life, bows are the hardest of the three to use effectively. Historically, one of the reasons crossbows were such a dangerous weapon was that they were easy to use. An effective longbowman took years of training, a crossbowman weeks, if that.

Making slings and crossbows all-class would require additional animation work be done though, so I doubt it'll ever happen. Although come to think of it, I think Slingshots share the same animation as bows do. I would LOVE to see barbarians wielding slingshots

Daizengar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you guys want crossbows and slingshots you can have them lol. All the good end game ranged weapons are bows and those are all-class.

That's not the point. Archers are able to use any BM weapon regardless of how useful it is, while other classes can only use one of the three archer weapons.

Yet the idea of one of four BM weapons becoming a BM only is somehow stupid and should be hated.

Sounds rather selfish to me.

Either any class able to use any weapon or the weapons should be within the designated class use.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's not the point. Archers are able to use any BM weapon regardless of how useful it is, while other classes can only use one of the three archer weapons.

Yet the idea of one of four BM weapons becoming a BM only is somehow stupid and should be hated.

Sounds rather selfish to me.

Either any class able to use any weapon or the weapons should be within the designated class use.

If you read most of this thread, most of the comments say how -interval is broken and that making fists bm-only would in no way solve the problem.

Do you really think archers would care if other classes would be able to use crossbows and slingshots?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's not the point. Archers are able to use any BM weapon regardless of how useful it is, while other classes can only use one of the three archer weapons.

Yet the idea of one of four BM weapons becoming a BM only is somehow stupid and should be hated.

Sounds rather selfish to me.

Either any class able to use any weapon or the weapons should be within the designated class use.

I already agreed for consistency they should make crossbows and slingshots all class. Those aren't coveted weapons and there is no point in keeping those archers only when anyone can use bows. Devs were probably lazy and didn't want to add new animations for running around with a crossbow.

Brigid - Harshlands

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you really think archers would care if other classes would be able to use crossbows and slingshots?

We really don't. As Astrelle said, endgame, everyone uses a Heaven Shatterer or a Nirvana bow. Including more than a few Assassins and Blademasters. I suppose there's the Rank 8 bow as well, but that's class-locked anyway.

Also, something to keep in mind: Out of 8 classes, only three have class-specific weapons. Assassins have daggers, Psychics have their magic balls, and Archers have crossbows and slingshots. Only 4 out of 23 weapon types are limited to one class.

Daizengar - Sanctuary

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you read most of this thread, most of the comments say how -interval is broken and that making fists bm-only would in no way solve the problem.

Do you really think archers would care if other classes would be able to use crossbows and slingshots?

Broken or not, all I'm saying is ever since -interval gear became readily available and BM's became "buffed", every other class has been crying and complaining that BMs are now stronger in certain aspects, whining for a nerf while overlooking the advantages they still have over the BM class.

All the while archers now using a weapon they weren't actually supposed to be using are complaining at the rumors of it being restricted to that class that IS supposed to be using them.

In other words, if it doesn't benefit them(all classes using xbow/sling), they won't care. But if it affects them in a bad way(not able to use claws), it's absolutely wrong and should be hated

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Furthermore, for true maximum DPS as a 5aps fist BM, you're going to be using a very convoluted cycle of demon sparks, ulti cancels, and Heaven's Flame. I worked it out in another thread somewhere, can't be bothered digging it up atm. Basically, you alternate canceling L11 fist ultis and L11 pole ultis, and throw in a non-canceled L11 Heaven's Flame every other Triple Spark cycle. You still maintain near-perma-spark status, and do absolutely ridiculous damage during the Heaven's Flame.

This is exactly what Telarith was saying . Bms have to do all that ( which is fun as hell though :P ) while archers and/or fist barbs can just stay there and ...auto-attack? Seriously .......

Just limit fists/claws to bms but cap attacks to a let's say , max 3/sec ? Also I'm sure no1 is interested in using xbows/slings/bows as a DPS weapon when they can use fists/claws ( daggers if sins ) .

If that were the case then archers wouldn't be interested in using fists & claws now would they ? b:cute

Asperitas - Lost City

What's the point of demon spark aside from the damage boost if you have 3 attacks/second normally then? Just a question I've always had in the back of my head.

Brigid - Harshlands

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is exactly what Telarith was saying . Bms have to do all that ( which is fun as hell though :P ) while archers and/or fist barbs can just stay there and ...auto-attack? Seriously .......

Not true. Fist BMs just using 3spark -> auto -> repeat do more damage than archers or barbarians do using the same thing. What I'm saying is simply that the complicated combo allows them to increase their already massive DPS even further beyond the basic autoattack/3spark, whereas fist archers/barbarians are limited to just that.

If that were the case then archers wouldn't be interested in using fists & claws now would they ? b:cute

Fists are still fun to use, regardless. Also, fists make better weapons on certain bosses (Holeen comes to mind) due to 3spark's self-purify. Being able to clear the attack rate reduction debuff nearly every time it occurs is quite useful. There's quite a difference between pounding away at 2.5 aps and shooting at 0.5 aps.

Also, I haven't read the full thread, but how come there's such a focus on archers, and not assassins? Fist assassins in fact do more damage than fist archers do. Wolf Emblem allows them to do far more damage when they crit, and Inner Harmony lowers the interval threshold required to perma-spark.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

What's the point of demon spark aside from the damage boost if you have 3 attacks/second normally then? Just a question I've always had in the back of my head.

Self-purify, 3 seconds of damage immunity, big red shiny? Anyway, the damage boost is kind of a big deal, especially when you start refining heavily. 500% of weapon damage is quite a lot of damage.

Daizengar - Sanctuary

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Also, I haven't read the full thread, but how come there's such a focus on archers, and not assassins? Fist assassins in fact do more damage than fist archers do. Wolf Emblem allows them to do far more damage when they crit, and Inner Harmony lowers the interval threshold required to perma-spark.

Sins can reach 5APS with dagger and deal more damage then fists.

Brigid - Harshlands

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sins can reach 5APS with dagger and deal more damage then fists.

Due to the way interval rounding works, a sufficiently cash-shopped assassin can reach 5APS sparked, with Chill of the Deep active, if they use fists. At least, assuming the screenshot I saw is real. I don't believe that's possible with daggers, since they're slower by 0.1s of interval.

Anyway, that only serves to reinforce my point. Fist archers aren't really the competition here, assassins (fist or dagger) do more damage.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Broken or not, all I'm saying is ever since -interval gear became readily available and BM's became "buffed", every other class has been crying and complaining that BMs are now stronger in certain aspects, whining for a nerf while overlooking the advantages they still have over the BM class.

All the while archers now using a weapon they weren't actually supposed to be using are complaining at the rumors of it being restricted to that class that IS supposed to be using them.

In other words, if it doesn't benefit them(all classes using xbow/sling), they won't care. But if it affects them in a bad way(not able to use claws), it's absolutely wrong and should be hated

I don't think you get the point that people are whining that interval mechanics is broken. Making claws class specific without changing the mechanics wouldn't stop the whining. What exactly does making claws BM-specific achieve?

In any case its pointless to argue it since gears drive pack sales and their are plenty of people buying deicides / tt100 fists. PWE would move to block demand for packs.

Daizengar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't think you get the point that people are whining that interval mechanics is broken. Making claws class specific without changing the mechanics wouldn't stop the whining. What exactly does making claws BM-specific achieve?

In any case its pointless to argue it since gears drive pack sales and their are plenty of people buying deicides / tt100 fists. PWE would move to block demand for packs.

And what I'm saying is:

1. It's not as bad as people think it is. Aside from super cash shopped players, most BMs who reach 5aps have to sacrifice defenses and wear Ashura's ornaments. One 5aps BM i know admits to getting easily oneshot. What's so broken about a BM who can get oneshot? -Interval means nothing if you're not alive to use it.

-Interval is only truly broken in the hands of a super cash shopper, and those guys are broken no matter what class they are.

Of course, you guys are only seeing -interval's brokeness in PVE situations. In PVP, it's as easy as one step backward or keeping your distance to take advantage of fist's short range. I don't know how it is on other servers, but over here in Sanc, many of these BMs who started following the new fad and got deicides use them so single mindedly that its easy to exploit their weakness. It takes more then just fists to be a good BM.

2. It's stupid for other classes to complain at the idea of fists becoming BM only when they were not supposed to use them in the first place. You got your own weapons, use those.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Anyway, that only serves to reinforce my point. Fist archers aren't really the competition here, assassins (fist or dagger) do more damage.

Due to a bug which I'm not going to reveal here, the highest DPS classes with fists are assassins, then barbarians. Then BM, then archer. It's just that few barbs are willing to tailor their build to use fists with -interval gear.

The issue is that -interval is borked. That BMs benefit most from it (relatively) is beside the point. Prior to -interval gear becoming widely available, I think most everyone agreed BMs needed a bone thrown their way. But 5 APS with -interval is not it. The harm caused by the broken -interval system outweighs the good it does for BMs. BMs just need something else to help them.

Pepper - Lost City

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

By the way, this forum has already proven itself too short-sighted to actually give useful advice to devs in regards to balance, as they keep changing their mind constantly. Even the archers are real bad about it, as they went from saying they are better than fists can get, to fists being better but not good for archers, to losing damage to using fists, to actually using Deicides. Just let the devs over in china go over balance issues and test them over there on a server that has end game as a reality, much better than getting their ideas from here at any rate.

If you play PW long enough at some point you realise that....
nothing in this game is end-game gear, but its a secret b:quiet dont tell anyone.

Inias - Heavens Tear

IMO claws/fists are way too OP

and don't go QQ ing that fists s*cks at aoe in TW etc then yr a r*tard if u don't know u gotta switch between yr weapons according what yr doing lmao


on another note i still think arcane classes have dissadvantages towards physical classes ,
just look at the nirvana gear >_> everyone gets 4%phys and 4% mag defence
what did they do to ONLY the arcane gear 2% physical and 4% magical like wth why would u take away 2 % phys defence for arcane classes and not give us anything in return?

right now they're **** with clerics and wizards >_< veno's at least still have their pheonix that eats everyone


so as final complaint ; it's not just the claws/fists that have to get fixed it's alot of things in this game

i'm still waiting for my legion of elves that i can summon to kill for me >_> to make clerics a bit op like other peeps

for wizards i dunno give em some more DD for gods sake if u see BM's doing more damage then wizards or archers then there's something wrong -_-" (both with same gear that is)

PoisonLove - Dreamweaver

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

And what I'm saying is:

1. It's not as bad as people think it is. Aside from super cash shopped players, most BMs who reach 5aps have to sacrifice defenses and wear Ashura's ornaments. One 5aps BM i know admits to getting easily oneshot. What's so broken about a BM who can get oneshot? -Interval means nothing if you're not alive to use it.

-Interval is only truly broken in the hands of a super cash shopper, and those guys are broken no matter what class they are.

Of course, you guys are only seeing -interval's brokeness in PVE situations. In PVP, it's as easy as one step backward or keeping your distance to take advantage of fist's short range. I don't know how it is on other servers, but over here in Sanc, many of these BMs who started following the new fad and got deicides use them so single mindedly that its easy to exploit their weakness. It takes more then just fists to be a good BM.

2. It's stupid for other classes to complain at the idea of fists becoming BM only when they were not supposed to use them in the first place. You got your own weapons, use those.

Any endgame fist BM that gets randomly oneshot is an idiot.
Any BM that has trouble getting close to his target is an idiot.

To think in PvP permasparked char with stunlock ability is fair, you need to be an idiot or to play that kind of char (then I understand the bias/horse goggles).

PvP is what matters endgame, but unless you slide your VISA/Mastercard every couple of days for PWI, you need some coins and drops to finance your ingame activities and upgrade your gear and weapons.
I don't see how is it fair to have one char solo an instance in half the time needed for a full squad of other chars to do it.

Someone was saying that melee classes have the right to such dps because they don't have range. My advice to you: quit the game, you learned nothing. Bows are all class, and a Fist BM can very well yield a Lunar bow also.

The amount of people this topic lured to come out of the closet on having no idea about this game mechanics is frightening.

Asperitas - Lost City

PoisonLove - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To think in PvP permasparked char with stunlock ability is fair, you need to be an idiot or to play that kind of char (then I understand the bias/horse goggles).

Really? Permasparking in PVP?

Gasoline - Lost City

Restricting fists to BM is like saying only 2 classes should be able to get 5aps and allowed to solo HH99 bosses in 2 minutes lol

Takes average party maybe 10 minutes for same boss. And would take me 45 minutes doing it with my herc lol. Seems kinda unfair i would say.

So restricting fists is not acceptable in a pure pve-perspective of course. When a certain set up of equipment is so ridiculously broken like stacking interval with daggers/fists for perma spark, everyone should be allowed to take advantage of it or any form of pve farming will be unbalanced.

Or do we want a game where only sins and Bms are considered tanks and DDs endgame? Rest classes are only fillers or buffers...

Pvp is not the issue tho in terms of BMs with 5 aps. Players are not HH bosses that just stands there and tanks triple spark. Bms are mele, they cant teleport or sneak up on people and start fisting them lol. You will see them coming, they dont have range and the class needed a pvp boost for a long time. Assassins with 5 aps will be another story tho - instant death for anyone with less than 20k hp b:surrender

But most ranged classes should be able to counter 5 aps BMs. Barbs and wizards can already one shoot any other class endgame with massive spike dmg - they should certainly not complain about 5 aps BMs in pvp.

Asperitas - Lost City

Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »

Pvp is not the issue tho in terms of BMs with 5 aps. Players are not HH bosses that just stands there and tanks triple spark. Bms are mele, they cant teleport or sneak up on people and start fisting them lol. You will see them coming, they dont have range and the class needed a pvp boost for a long time.

+1

/10char

Brigid - Harshlands

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Talking of issues you will not reveal is meaningless.

So perhaps you could post a sample build and give a DPS number to go with it? I would like to see if I could exceed that number with a similar build BM. (And I imagine that I can.)

He's probably referring to ulti canceling, probably with Demon Sunder for 100% crit. The thing is, BMs can do that too with Pole ulti (whatever it's called). Plus they can HF immediately after. Seriously, there's not a whole lot that beats triple sparked, Heaven's Flamed, 100% crit, 5 attacks per second. Oh, and let's use Zerk fists too while we're at it.

Personally, I still believe the absolute max DPS order goes Assassin (fist) > BM (fist, ulti canceling) > Assassin (dagger) > BM (fist, just sparking).

The fist assassin wins due to 5aps at +30 attack level, and Wolf Emblem.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

+1

/10char

But that's only 9 characters!

Telarith - Sanctuary

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

He's probably referring to ulti canceling, probably with Demon Sunder for 100% crit. The thing is, BMs can do that too with Pole ulti (whatever it's called). Plus they can HF immediately after. Seriously, there's not a whole lot that beats triple sparked, Heaven's Flamed, 100% crit, 5 attacks per second. Oh, and let's use Zerk fists too while we're at it.

Personally, I still believe the absolute max DPS order goes Assassin (fist) > BM (fist, ulti canceling) > Assassin (dagger) > BM (fist, just sparking).

The fist assassin wins due to 5aps at +30 attack level, and Wolf Emblem.

But that's only 9 characters!

Have you ever actually done any of the things you're claiming we can do? Most of the time it seems like just random theories with little basis in the reality of time loss due to weapon swaps, switching between skill use that has specific weapon set requirements to be useable, which also sets back time, loss of aftercast, and other things that really makes most of these combos unworkable. At the very least, it doesn't end up with the results you like to point out.

EDIT: Especially when if we have sac strike fists, we can't get 5 APS even with all -int gear; which gimps our health and sharding due to losing out on having higher than G12 armor in many slots. Or we give up mag defense, which isn't very likely.

Further EDIT: To keep with the thread strictly, and considering all the complaints, here is what they should do:

Restrict fists/claws to blademasters. Review other weapons that might need class only restrictions, though it is funny when the archers allow others to use their bow. Make it 34M range, and it might mean something

With all needed restrictions, go back through and review each weapon based off of each class separately. They know what each class role should be, they have a better idea of how to balance each to keep the flavor. Have separate ceilings based off of weapon speed and refinement values, instead of just one for all weapons. Maybe see about splitting the sin to prevent them from having both DPS, and DPH capability with the same weapon and build.

Look at their roles in PvE and PvP, and adjust things as required. This may mean making it so TT cannot have squad mode accomplished by one player only, including venos. Add in challenges that render it nearly impossible for any class, including cash shopped, to go in to squad only and beat it. Irregardless of how long it may take.

Just a few things they would need to do, but just looking at how off-centered everything seems to be, at least restricting weapon classes would help in placing firm lines between classes and allow for easier balance, instead of dealing with so many issues at once.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »

IMO claws/fists are way too OP

Wrong, nothing is OP unless you cash shop

and don't go QQ ing that fists s*cks at aoe in TW etc then yr a r*tard if u don't know u gotta switch between yr weapons according what yr doing lmao

Fists and swords CAN AOE, but not like axes/poles. Drake's sweep, fan of the flames are OFC all melee weapon AOE, so is roar of the pride

on another note i still think arcane classes have dissadvantages towards physical classes ,

Wrong, heavy classes get hurt really badly to magic classes, go watch how BMs get hit for heavy damage from magic attacks and barbs too. On top of that, physical classes besides archers requires MELEE and archers have low HP for physical classes and they have medium defense

just look at the nirvana gear >_> everyone gets 4%phys and 4% mag defence
what did they do to ONLY the arcane gear 2% physical and 4% magical like wth why would u take away 2 % phys defence for arcane classes and not give us anything in return?

Ever heard of reduce PHYSICAL damage taken bonus in equipment? There is no reduce magical damage taken, you can massively reduce P.DMG you receive from gears while you are limited to magic damage taken, even arcane robes can tank a physical attack if you COMBINE right, VIT + P.DEF + Reduce P.DMG taken

right now they're **** with clerics and wizards >_< veno's at least still have their pheonix that eats everyone

I can't believe this at all, venoes are far more overpowered than every class ingame, besides, lots of venoes gimp their chars with some stupid builds and depend on their legendary pets, which is obviously stupid. Clerics and wizards prepare properly and can do just fine as well. You need to learn how to build / use proper tactics before judging. Even with a hare my daughter does fine with her veno even with a snow hare

so as final complaint ; it's not just the claws/fists that have to get fixed it's alot of things in this game

Its not the fists / claws for the last time, genies and imbalance of skills that people can abuse, which is not even funny no more

i'm still waiting for my legion of elves that i can summon to kill for me >_> to make clerics a bit op like other peeps

So your asking to be overpowered because you think other skills suck? Thats a joke imo

for wizards i dunno give em some more DD for gods sake if u see BM's doing more damage then wizards or archers then there's something wrong -_-" (both with same gear that is)

If you think on the PVE side, don't you think that wizard / archer stealing aggro easier and turning into pancakes, then thats your fault for having that idea. USE THE SKILLS INSTEAD OF AUTO ATTACKING. OFC fists > bows by a longshot in auto attack, and wizards do more damage than ever, + they have elemental debuff while BMs don't even have P.DEF debuff w/o 59 pole ulti or without 59 axe ulti . Even axes do better than bows in normal attacks, my barb kills faster than my archer in auto attacks, which is the truth. But skill wise, my archer kills really really fast, faster than assassin does

Replies in quote

Beatrixxx - Lost City

as telarith sais a lot of the ppl here have no grasp on reality it seems lets come with some facts first

bm can never AND I MEAN NEVER get unbuffed/sparked 5.00 atk speed theres just not gear for it the 8 jun that some ppl keep mentioning is archer ONLY theres allso a sin only that gives interval but nothing for bm... we need skills or buffs or sparks to get that illusive 5.00

fist dmg is lower then other weps yea we do a lot of dd but everytime we use a skill itll mean loosing dd for the amount of time skill takes

when ppl thing we can permaspark in pvp thats just lol.... noone gonna just stand there and take it sure bm can stunlock WITH AXES making sucsessfull stunlocks and swiching to fists and back to restun and back to fists is just lol there wont be any real damage that way...
furthermore there are genie skills pots and other skills that can cancel stun immune to stun and immune to dmg and as i understand phys will soon get a skill that debuffs AND makes them immune to dmg... sins can go invis if theres a little gap in our stuns... or ppl can just move a step away breaking our atk chain and when were not atacking were not gaining chi for next spark... ppl dumb enough to just stand there and try to tank a fistie triple sparking deserves what is coming...

i remember back in the day when these forums were all ablaze with fists being dumb and fists being weak damage being so low that even 5.00 atkspd couldnt make up for it... ppl hated us back then but the few of us that were here loved that ppl dont know how to fight us...

and yea when a fist bm with +8 cv fists pvp a wiz with +8 cv wep sure he hits the wiz for around 1k damage... but the wiz if he knows what hes doing will antistun blink and then make some of those hi dmg skills they got(i dont know name of wiz skills sry) and hit the bm for 4-5k dmg a sht... he has skills or genie skills that can stun seal or sleep bm he has 0 channeling skill and to those ppl that say 0 channeling is useless because there still is cooldown maybe in pve but no bm in the world will survive a wiz cycling trough all their atks thats just lol

why is it some ppl allways needs something to qq about... spend less time qqing more time playing and soon ppl will qq that ur too op...

fist bms have atk spd thats op
barbs have hi hpand turtle thats op
venos have nix thats op
eps can spamhealthemselves thats op
archers have range and crits thats op
wiz have spike damage thats op
sins have the skill that saves them from death(forgot name) and invis thats op
phys have... ... the ability to make ppl lol so much they cant defend themselves? nah just kiddin u have spike dmg and will soon get invoulnerability skill

all u ppl qqing.... get over it... theres allways someone better then urself someone more op'



edit: hi yulk... and btw to all u ppl showing char calcs showing ppl with oht gear with 3x -interval.... thats just not possible... 1st of all because the chances of that are comically low oht fists with 3x -interval has a 0.000000000143% chance of being crafted(then possibly only 0 soc) secondly because pwi just recently changed -int to unique addon meaning u can only get 1 x -interval on randomstat gear and that will make it impossible to get zerk or other cool stuff on it so all in all the only gear with more then 1 -interval are hh99 gold bracers that gets the set bonus

Hypnos - Raging Tide

for the last time....we are psy not phy dimmit b:cry

And if you mean Psychic Will that give immune to physical damage for 8 s and remove all debuff, it's a lvl59 skills so pretty sure every1 got it asap =/

Beatrixxx - Lost City

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

for the last time....we are psy not phy dimmit b:cry

And if you mean Psychic Will that give immune to physical damage for 8 s and remove all debuff, it's a lvl59 skills so pretty sure every1 got it asap =/

sorry phly:P yea and thats a pretty op skill.... but i dont rly know much about plys cus so few of em on lost city but it seems to me they are the ones that could rightfully be qqing about everyone being op but again if im wrong im sorry i just havent fought any in pvp so dunno much about it

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Beatrixxx - Lost City wrote: »

sorry phly:P yea and thats a pretty op skill.... but i dont rly know much about plys cus so few of em on lost city but it seems to me they are the ones that could rightfully be qqing about everyone being op but again if im wrong im sorry i just havent fought any in pvp so dunno much about it

wtf is a "phly" or a "plys'?

P.S. For all you bms that keep saying 5 aps is balance in PvP, read the thread and you'll realize we're talking PvE. So far, no bms have come up with a good excuse how it's balanced in PvE.