DQ Update! *Dragon Points*
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Wow o.o....
Mr. Doc just flat out owned the person who thought they knew everything about the ingame economy! Woot! Woot!
/sarcasm off
Still Doc owned that posters *** via intellect and correct struture. 100/10 for him ^.^0 -
i wonder so many people flame so hard against anybody that spends money in this game. as previously stated, server's, staff, and a plethora of other expenses are required to run a popular online game. if you don't want to spend any money fine but don't call it foul if the company has to take steps to encourage people to contribute. i just find it all very useless to complain but to do so from a stance of not wanting to contribute (or not being able to) or to separate the ability to make baseless claims just becuase you face no real-life embarrassment.
why is it so bad that the rewards for spending money on this game are actually attractive?
the main type of people that many people complain about are cash-shoppers that spend enough to spend even more to get what they want under whatever anti-CS measures you "grassroots" players reccomend!
if the repair bill is one of the main reasons people take offense to the DQ drop, why not request the repair system be tweaked to make it LESS coin-dependant? people dont bring that up more often because they like making tons of coin grinding, so they can buy gold to buy CS items, or to buy coin-heavy items. so lets be realistic about it folks.
economy, shmeconomy.... this is not a macro-economics class, "fixing" the economy to where CS'ers // merchants don't dictate prices means not having a cash shop.... which means you paying monthly to play~! you want free to play, but you also want the best treatment and to be able to dictate what is done.
quite frankly, if i were running this company i would not feel the love, and furthermore i would not feel like my efforts are being treated fairly. the change was already explained as what it was. the people in charge made a good-faith effort to get something for us, which other implementations of the game will not get, and still QQ whine whine~! on top of that people want retroactive benefits because it was such a travesty~!
simply put, no matter what happens, it wont be %100 accepted, free-players want things to be harder for CS'ers (even though people have access to CS through AH without spending a cent~! albeit not in the same volume), when in the end, only the people who spend on the low end will be negatively effected. big-money spenders will not be harmed at all, because they can afford to spend more~!!!
ijust find that the main problem is that people are posting as if they speak for every player, when the fact that money is still being made, and lil green dots still populate the map everyday of the week! now the mods are on defense and the flame continue to rise, but i guess that's the company's fault too?0 -
now im a simple man and dont pretent to know alot ,
but you Sir Sangodoc are talking out of your........well ill be polite
since when did they really care if players got pissed and complained
TW changes DQ changes TT changes and more and you know they didnt care0 -
Selling gold in-game is the conversion of real money to in-game coins. Ergo, the Big Notes are just fluff. Unnecessary fluff, at that.
Consider that a person spends $1,000 on packs and gets, say, 5 LG signs, 10 Best Lucks, and a dozen other things, but thousands of tokens. The money goes nowhere. They have what they need for their gear. They have what they need to make money. They have what they need to never spend any coins in-game.
PTOBL can be used on a load of other things. Check the list. There's no point in leaving in the Big Notes when you have such a selection. All it does is increase the base value of everything else. And a vast majority of us are unable to get into that little game.
What happens if you removed the big notes? Complaints? That's a lie. There have been complaints about plenty of things that haven't changed. What's the line, now? If you don't like it, go play something else?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »why is it so bad that the rewards for spending money on this game are actually attractive?
I stopped reading right there.
Simplest explination is...well, simple. The items being offered in the CS, or more specifically the packs, create a massive vaccum between players who can afford to swipe a credit card and those who either can't or choose not to.
If you choose not to spend money but can, then that's on you. If you can't afford to spend money on the game, then you're simply **** out of luck if you want to be able to keep up and get offered to participate in group activities. Free players are literally being given a giant middle finger by not only the CS'ers but the company itself.
Pay for power options are always a lose/lose situation for any game economy. And it always has been. These types of games aren't designed to last long, and they generally don't.
With that said, I couldn't care less about this game, the player base or the company itself. All three have proven to be retardedly asnine.Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
Well... yeah. Anything that provides players with coins, especially low-effort high-reward things (I'm not referring to anything specific here), causes inflation. Adding coins to the economy at a greater rate than they leave equals inflation. It's that simple.
That's like saying spitting in the ocean raises sea levels. Even if everyone in the whole world spit in the ocean every day you'd see no rise in sea levels.
Furthermore, NPCing DQs implies a draw of money from the economy due to potion and repair costs. So that's like if everyone in the world spit in the ocean, and then half that volume was removed from the ocean immediately.
Continue to try and defend frankie's statement, but it remains stupid.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Anyway, in regards to my earlier question...
How likely are we to get previous DQ sales counted? I just need the past two weeks, alone. o.o Not the total since the creation of the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
If they didn't care, then why did they just fix the problems with the TT bosses after some problems with the implementation of the anti-botting measures?blackknave wrote: »now im a simple man and dont pretent to know alot ,
but you Sir Sangodoc are talking out of your........well ill be polite
since when did they really care if players got pissed and complained
TW changes DQ changes TT changes and more and you know they didnt care
If they didn't care, then why are they just about to release Dragon Points to help compensate for the loss of some coins due to another anti-botting measure that people complained about? (I note that they even anticipated the complaints in this case.)
The TW changes may not have worked out, but they were also intended to deal with some problems and complaints about TWs. It was also stated that those changes may end up getting tweaked depending on how things go, so we may yet see more changes to TW structure, due in part to their caring about the players.
And the clearest example that demonstrates that they care if players get pissed and complain: When was the last time they sold "Perfect Horns"? b:chuckle
I think that that's ample evidence that they do care, and that's certainly not a complete list, just a few mostly recent examples that I could come up with off the top of my head.
It's simply impossible for them to appease everyone who complains, because often players disagree with each other about what they want. Some prefer things harder, some prefer things easier, for example. So, you can't use the argument that they don't give in to any particular party as evidence that they don't care, because pleasing everyone is impossible. By pleasing one group they automatically annoy the other group.
If you have some evidence that they really don't care, I'd love to hear it, but it would have to explain away all of the examples above.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »Anyway, in regards to my earlier question...
How likely are we to get previous DQ sales counted? I just need the past two weeks, alone. o.o Not the total since the creation of the game.
You would have a better chance in hell scoring the perfect hottie who cooks, cleans and blows you with equal enthusiasm than you're likely to see back-pay. ijsSome people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »Anyway, in regards to my earlier question...
How likely are we to get previous DQ sales counted? I just need the past two weeks, alone. o.o Not the total since the creation of the game.
I doubt that the game records DQ sales as sales of specific items, and it won't until this DQ point system is implemented. So no.Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »You would have a better chance in hell scoring the perfect hottie who cooks, cleans and blows you with equal enthusiasm than you're likely to see back-pay. ijs
I lol'd[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »You would have a better chance in hell scoring the perfect hottie who cooks, cleans and blows you with equal enthusiasm than you're likely to see back-pay. ijs
So, you're saying I have a chance? o.o I'm already married to one.Alphae - Lost City wrote: »I doubt that the game records DQ sales as sales of specific items, and it won't until this DQ point system is implemented.
o.o I thought the same thing, until I realized that it was tracking everything else for the core ****. Even the dyes and when you hit 100k coins. Why not this?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »o.o I thought the same thing, until I realized that it was tracking everything else for the core ****. Even the dyes and when you hit 100k coins. Why not this?
I would assume tracking functionality is only for those items. Coins of course are tracked for your character. As for dyes, it may be that they track the use of gold-obtained items by player. I don't know, it's just a guess. But I'd guess they don't track what number and type of DQ you sell to NPCs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Alphae - Lost City wrote: »I would assume tracking functionality is only for those items. Coins of course are tracked for your character. As for dyes, it may be that they track the use of gold-obtained items by player. I don't know, it's just a guess. But I'd guess they don't track what number and type of DQ you sell to NPCs.
Well, they wouldn't have been tracking when I got my first 100k, either. Seeing how it was back in 2009 on my Wizard. So, it is completely plausible for that information to be available to the system.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Alphae - Lost City wrote: »I would assume tracking functionality is only for those items. Coins of course are tracked for your character. As for dyes, it may be that they track the use of gold-obtained items by player. I don't know, it's just a guess. But I'd guess they don't track what number and type of DQ you sell to NPCs.
Techincally the game logs every single action you do, from the moment you log in to when you log out. And I do mean e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.
It would just be rediculously difficult to sift through each persons logs and tally up the total.Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »Well, they wouldn't have been tracking when I got my first 100k, either. Seeing how it was back in 2009 on my Wizard. So, it is completely plausible for that information to be available to the system.
-shrugs- Call it a hunch.
Regardless of whether they track it or not, I am guessing that the probability of them giving you back pay is close to nil.
Start saving DQs and mailing them to yourself in stacks for storage, tis very simple.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »With that said, I couldn't care less about this game, the player base or the company itself. All three have proven to be retardedly asnine.
if you could care less, then you wouldn't respond would you? also, if you read my entire response, your own comment would probably sound a bit different.
free players ( and there are a ton of them ) can group together and do almost anything in this game themselves (given that it is not campable on the map by elite factions) without need for anyone else's help. what did the first group of players do when they reached 60 or hit TT the first time, or nirvana?? they did it, they failed and re-tried but they did it~! without guides or high-lvl help or any of that, i view that statement as being spoiled.
if anyone wants to be all separatist about it, try NOT accepting help from higher levels or people with obivously CS'd gear. get your TT mats without asking the same higher levels or CS'd players, farm your mats the hard way, without a herc'd veno. play the game while excluding any and all CS items and without the help of people who spend money on the game.
pay for power options keep F2P free to play! i now plenty of people on my server that play and only mildly complain about DQ prices, i know i feel the difference, but i dont take to flames and rage. i'd rather spend my time thinking of what could be done better and trying to respond in a positive fashion when plans are made and implemented with the intent on providing more to do.0 -
Alphae - Lost City wrote: »-shrugs- Call it a hunch.
Regardless of whether they track it or not, I am guessing that the probability of them giving you back pay is close to nil.
Start saving DQs and mailing them to yourself in stacks for storage, tis very simple.
b:surrender Won't work. I would max out my storage possibilities in less than a week. When I grind, I grind to an extreme. If DQ prices were the same as they were, I would be halfway to my goal, by now. Instead, I am less than a quarter to it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
That's an inaccurate metaphor, because we know about how much water is in the ocean and spit, but we don't have any idea how much money is in the economy or is added to it by NPC'd DQ drops.Alphae - Lost City wrote: »That's like saying spitting in the ocean raises sea levels. Even if everyone in the whole world spit in the ocean every day you'd see no rise in sea levels.
Furthermore, the spit in people doesn't magically come from nowhere, it ultimately came from the ocean in the first place. Ever hear of the water cycle? DQ drops basically create coins from nothing, however there is a basically constant amount of water on Earth (some is lost due to evaporation, some is added due to meteors, but it's roughly the same).
Still, that doesn't argue against my point that it does indeed affect inflation. All you're quibbling about now is by how much.
Uh... even if I go with your broken metaphor, that's still adding the equivalent of over 4.3 billion people's spit to the ocean. More is still more, even if some of that is used in the process. And keep in mind, yet another problem with your metaphor is that this is a continuous process, not a one-time event. Imagine that people magically manufactured the spit out of thin air and did this continually every day, do you think there would be no effect?Alphae - Lost City wrote: »Furthermore, NPCing DQs implies a draw of money from the economy due to potion and repair costs. So that's like if everyone in the world spit in the ocean, and then half that volume was removed from the ocean immediately.
I don't know for sure, but honestly I find that highly unlikely. It would take too much database processing to back-date the process.EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »Anyway, in regards to my earlier question...
How likely are we to get previous DQ sales counted? I just need the past two weeks, alone. o.o Not the total since the creation of the game.
Better just start collecting now, and then NPC them after this is implemented. (Feel free to wait a few days if you're worried it might be buggy.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
I'll let muigre respond to your counter arguments to him, though obviously i think they are flawed.Issuing ad hominem attacks at me doesn't really help your argument, you know?
just so you and borsuc are clear, telling you not to tow the company line is not an ad hominem attack, its an attack to the basis of your position, it wasnt an attack on you or your intelligence, and saying that your position within the company doesnt influence you actual or promulgated opinion does not make it true
I don't work for the company; I'm expressing my honest opinion. I'd have said the same thing even if I wasn't a mod. Honestly, being a mod makes me want to say less, because some people misinterpret whatever I say in the worst possible way simply because my icon has a green border. How is that fair? b:beatenup
So, please, just ignore the fact that I'm a mod. I don't let it influence my opinion, so please don't let it influence yours.
2 billion is just a number you pulled out of your hat. Not only that, but even if we assume it's true, without knowing how much is in the economy and how much is entering and leaving the economy, it's just a useless statistic.
More speculation.
1 token popping up every 5 minutes is equal to 1.44 billion coins entering the day, im not going watch chat 24 hours a day just to give you a statistic, but im sure we can all agree we are seeing a bare minimum of 1 popping up every 5 minutes on average, i know when im on i see far more, there is no outlet in the economy for the coin to go
"Unearned"? Wow. There's a whole kettle of fish you potentially unleashed there.
I'm sure just about everyone earned the money they spent on the token packs. Even if you meant just in-game, you're just artificially narrowing the pool of sources of coins in order to justify your own argument.
If we ignore the "unearned", yet again, this is more speculation.
"unearned" meaning that there is no ingame coin outlay in order for the coin to enter the market, no game activity is required to create wealth, its the equivalent of printing money. I didnt use it to implicate some cash shopper v. non-cash shopper arguement, because thats irrelevant to inflation, buying boutique gold does not create coins.
Huh? There's plenty of places for it to go. This claim makes no sense.
like what? repair costs and tele fees? get real.
Oh yeah, except for actual cash, you know, the stuff that keeps the servers running? And I'm sure everyone is just rolling around in that. ;-)
again, buying gold, which keeps the servers running does not inject coins into the economy, selling gold to other people does not create coins, it moves them from one pocket to another pocket
Seriously, you've made three claims that are total speculation, and based your argument upon them. You don't know how much they add to the economy, you don't know how much they'd be worth without $10 Mil. Big Notes, and you don't know how much it affects the economy compared to other things.
while not exact numbers, my assertions are not quite completely made up speculation, im sure the numbers are available on how many TOBLs enter the game every day, and how many 10M coin notes are created with them, they just arent available to us players
Worst of all, none of this contradicts my only point: people will complain if $10 Mil. Big Notes are removed from PTOBL rewards.
what wont people complain about, im talking about reducing the vast influx of coin which is causing game wide inflation, which removing a token-to-coin option would do.
Seriously, even if all of your speculation was 100% accurate (which it surely isn't) it wouldn't change that simple fact. And that simple fact was my only point.
That's not "towing the company line", that just stating the obvious.
saying people will complain is like saying its going to rain eventually
I agree, but I never did that. Someone else brought it up in this context, and I merely said people would complain if it was removed.
actually you did it right herehttp://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10790542&postcount=255
Also, insulting me twice for no good reason and making a giant argument against things I never said is intellectually dishonest, so you might want to watch where you're slinging those stones.
and again i am attacking your arguement, not you, its the difference between saying "that act you did was stupid" and "you are stupid"
If you have evidence, not merely speculation, that nobody would complain if they removed $10 Mil. Big Notes from PTOBL rewards, then you would be arguing against what I said, however nothing above even comes close to doing that.
now you are asking me for concrete proof that everyone will be happy and not one single person would complain if tokens-to-coin NPC option where removed, then you are either directly asking me to speculate, or you want me to survey EVERY SINGLE PLAYER so if my idea doesnt receive unanimous uncontested support, i'm wrong? how is that either possible or not intellectually dishonest?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Better just start collecting now, and then NPC them after this is implemented. (Feel free to wait a few days if you're worried it might be buggy.)
As I said, I'm pretty hardcore about my grinding. =\ I could have leveled twice from 0% in a day, if I didn't keep feeding my genie. No Hypers or training scrolls. Just non-stop killing. ._.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You know, putting your responses in the quote that way makes it harder to respond to your points.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'll let muigre respond to your counter arguments to him, though obviously i think they are flawed.
Wikipedia - Ad hominem: An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »just so you and borsuc are clear, telling you not to tow the company line is not an ad hominem attack, its an attack to the basis of your position, it wasnt an attack on you or your intelligence, and saying that your position within the company doesnt influence you actual or promulgated opinion does not make it true
You had said, "stop towing the company line, if you want to involve yourself in a discussion", which implies that my being a moderator (a characteristic I have) is driving my opinion, therefore my opinions are invalid. That is an ad hominem attack.
And yes, just because I state something about my own motivations does not make that statement true, I should hope it has more validity than the attempted "mind reading" some people claim to have where they claim that my views are skewed simply because I'm a moderator here.
Finally, even if I was "towing the company line", that does not mean that my arguments are automatically invalid, so there is no reason why I shouldn't involve myself in the discussion even in that case.
A) I don't agree with that rate. Your rate is just based on a gut impression, not any solid evidence, and traditionally such "gut impressions" are inaccurate because they are strongly affected by personal biases.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »1 token popping up every 5 minutes is equal to 1.44 billion coins entering the day, im not going watch chat 24 hours a day just to give you a statistic, but im sure we can all agree we are seeing a bare minimum of 1 popping up every 5 minutes on average, i know when im on i see far more, there is no outlet in the economy for the coin to go
Not all servers are the same.
C) That assumes that every single PTOBL becomes $10 Mil. Big Notes.
D) It entirely ignores my point that without knowing how much is in the economy and how much is entering and leaving the economy, it's just a useless statistic.
E) Of course there are outlets in the economy, perhaps not ones big enough to compensate, but that doesn't mean that there are none.
I'll reiterate my points which you ignored:SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »"unearned" meaning that there is no ingame coin outlay in order for the coin to enter the market, no game activity is required to create wealth, its the equivalent of printing money. I didnt use it to implicate some cash shopper v. non-cash shopper arguement, because thats irrelevant to inflation, buying boutique gold does not create coins.
Even if you meant just in-game, you're just artificially narrowing the pool of sources of coins in order to justify your own argument.
If we ignore the "unearned", yet again, this (the claim that "no other factor even comes close to adding that much unearned coin into the game") is more speculation.
Yes, repair costs, gear costs, sharding costs, pots, Crazy Stone, teleports, CoA event, and even people leaving the game with coins still in their banks, just to name a few. I'm not saying it's enough to compensate for all of the coins coming into the game, but to deny that there are places for the coins to go is to blatantly disregard reality.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »like what? repair costs and tele fees? get real.
This is a straw man argument. I didn't say selling gold creates coins. You said that people got PTOBL "with no coin outlay to get it, no bidding, no towers, no cat scrolls, nothing." I said that "nothing" is wrong, since they're spending cash (directly or indirectly) to get the PTOBL. That's a completely different argument than the one you're arguing against.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »again, buying gold, which keeps the servers running does not inject coins into the economy, selling gold to other people does not create coins, it moves them from one pocket to another pocket
Yes, and because they aren't available to us players, and because you said you haven't attempted to perform any statistics, your assertions are therefore entirely "made up speculation." Saying that they're not doesn't make it true. ;-)SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »while not exact numbers, my assertions are not quite completely made up speculation, im sure the numbers are available on how many TOBLs enter the game every day, and how many 10M coin notes are created with them, they just arent available to us players
Yes, it's stating the obvious. That's what I just said.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
saying people will complain is like saying its going to rain eventuallySangodoc wrote:That's not "towing the company line", that just stating the obvious.
It's also what you're arguing against. b:surrender
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood what you were referring to. I thought you were talking about the DQ NPC price change that actually happened, not my comment that removing DQ items entirely would also affect inflation. Still, I see nothing "intellectually dishonest" about pointing out an example of how a simple change that would work, would also be a bad change, when that was my original point.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
actually you did it right here http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=255Sangodoc wrote:I agree, but I never did that. Someone else brought it up in this context, and I merely said people would complain if it was removed.
Saying that I'm "towing the company line" and being "intellectually dishonest" are not attacks on my argument, they're attacks on me, including my motivations and choice of reasoning, especially since you never justified either of them. The only difference between "you're stupid" and "you're being stupid" is the possibility that the latter may only be a temporary description. However, both are still insults directed at the person.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »and again i am attacking your arguement, not you, its the difference between saying "that act you did was stupid" and "you are stupid"
If you want to disagree with me, I have no problem with that. It's when you impugn my motives or mental ability that you're being insulting. To refer back to your example, it's better to avoid using the word "stupid" entirely.
I guess you're unfamiliar with the scientific method. With the scientific method you provide evidence for your assertion by attempting to prove it wrong and failing. Your counter-assertion is rather easily disproved, since it only takes one person to disagree to disprove the claim that nobody would complain if they removed $10 Mil. Big Notes from PTOBL rewards. My assertion was that people would complain, so if you wanted to argue against my initial point, instead of the various straw men you attacked instead, then then that would be a simple test of your assertion. The more people surveyed where 100% would not complain (assuming that there was no cherry-picking of data or self-selection of sampling) the stronger your argument would be.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »now you are asking me for concrete proof that everyone will be happy and not one single person would complain if tokens-to-coin NPC option where removed, then you are either directly asking me to speculate, or you want me to survey EVERY SINGLE PLAYER so if my idea doesnt receive unanimous uncontested support, i'm wrong? how is that either possible or not intellectually dishonest?
I don't think it's necessary, as we apparently both agree on the point that some would complain, but this makes me wonder, what was so horrible about that point that you had to disagree with me in the first place? b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
That's an inaccurate metaphor, because we know about how much water is in the ocean and spit, but we don't have any idea how much money is in the economy or is added to it by NPC'd DQ drops.
Furthermore, the spit in people doesn't magically come from nowhere, it ultimately came from the ocean in the first place. Ever hear of the water cycle? DQ drops basically create coins from nothing, however there is a basically constant amount of water on Earth (some is lost due to evaporation, some is added due to meteors, but it's roughly the same).
Still, that doesn't argue against my point that it does indeed affect inflation. All you're quibbling about now is by how much.
Let's not play semantics here. We all know just exactly how much NPCing DQs "increases" inflation in the game. People had been NPCing them for ages without massive jump in price. My metaphor wasn't meant to be a perfect, accurate illustration of what's happening. My metaphor was more along the lines of how dumb it is to say that NPCing DQ items causes any measurable inflation.
Yes I have heard of the water cycle, I am a double science major heading to grad school in a year. DQ does NOT create coin from totally nothing. Coin is LOST in the system via repairs and pot costs. Most of the time, some coin is created, yes, but the full NPC price is does not magically appear.
How MUCH inflation is EXACTLY what matters, don't get coy. Let's use Sasha's example, that a TOBL appears every 5 minutes. Hell, let's halve that and give some credit. That means that:
24*60 = 1440 min/day
1440/10 = 144 TOBL/day
144/2 = 72 10m notes/day
72*10m = 720,000,000 coins/day injected into the economy via TOBL per day
^^You could afk in a shop for 24 hours a day for this to occur. No player action is necessary. No coins leave the economy.
Now, let's say a DQ sells for 4k. That's really freaking generous, DQ 91s sell for barely over 3k. And let's say you gain a DQ every 15 seconds. At a mob kill rate of 5sec/mob, that's per every 3 mobs, in my experience a pretty good drop rate.
24*60 = 1440 min/day
1440*4(DQ/min) = 5760 DQ/day
5760*4000 = 23,040,000
And let's say that 1/100th of that, you spend on pots and repairing your gear after 24 hour's worth of nonstop grinding at a constant rate of 12 mobs/min. This is also pretty damn generous, especially if you're a melee class. Let's say as my veno, this is what I might spend with repairs and pot costs.
23,040,000/100 = 230,400 coin lost
23,040,000-230,400 = 22,809,600 net coin
22,809,600/720,000,000 = 0.03168, or 3.168% of the value of TOLB coin value is inserted into the economy for every person that grinds non-stop for 24 hours, gains 4 DQ/min at a kill rate of 12 mob/min and the DQ sells for 4k. I've overestimated considerably, so you get the idea.
Yeah, the amount of inflation DOES matter. Thanks for trying though.
And you want to know about spit?
Let's say the average person spits 0.5ml. That's generous. 4.3 billion people spitting into the ocean would therefore add 2.15 billion ml or 2,150,000 liters or approximately 567,970 gallons to the oceans. Converter used for this and following conversions, it makes my life easy.
The volume of the world's oceans is 1,347,000 cubic kilometers or approximately 1.347*10^18 cubic meters. That is equal to 355,839,754,526,425,940,000 gallons, or 1.347*10^24 milliliters. 0.5/1.347*10^24 = 3.712*10^-25. The means that the amount 4.3 billion people would spit into the ocean if every single man woman child and infant spat in the ocean once per day is approximately 0.00000000000000000000003712% of the volume of the world's oceans. In other words, YOU'D SEE NO FREAKING RISE IN SEA LEVELS. THERE IS MEASURABLE NO CONTRIBUTION.
Have a nice day. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
so i made a poll, with unbiased choice options, and it was move to cash shop huddle within a minute, GG dude, GG.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »so i made a poll, with unbiased choice options, and it was move to cash shop huddle within a minute, GG dude, GG.
qft :x[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Congratulations, you managed to contradict yourself in the same paragraph and prove my point. I didn't claim that the "full NPC price" appears and that there were no other costs, that's a straw man argument, I only said that coins were created, which is an indisputable fact.Alphae - Lost City wrote: »DQ does NOT create coin from totally nothing. Coin is LOST in the system via repairs and pot costs. Most of the time, some coin is created, yes, but the full NPC price is does not magically appear.
Please, read what I write and argue against that, and not things that I wasn't even saying.
It's really tiresome and frustrating to say blatantly obvious truths, only to have people try to prove you wrong by arguing against things I didn't even claim as though I really did say them.
Sometimes I wonder if I said "black is black" whether people would argue that I was wrong because gray isn't black. b:surrender
I wasn't being "coy", I was stating the extent of my claim. If I say "X is a kind of Y", it doesn't matter if it's not enough of a "Y" for you, it only matters that X is indeed a kind of Y.Alphae - Lost City wrote: »How MUCH inflation is EXACTLY what matters, don't get coy.
Furthermore, we don't know how much of a contributing factor it is, nor even how much the $10 Mil. Big Notes are, so that's all just speculation. And you can't just dismiss any source of new coins because it's been around a while, because it's the contributions of all sources that matter.
Arguments based on potentially (probably) false information are meaningless. Again, you're pulling numbers out of the air and also assuming that 100% of PTOBL are being converted to $10 Mil. Big Notes. You can prove anything if I let you pull numbers out of the air, as you did with your DQ numbers as well. Heck, you don't even notice that it would only take 32 of your 24 hour grinders to pump out more coins than PTOBL scenario, and far more people NPC DQ items from questing/grinding/etc... than get PTOBL. It's just meaningless numbers disputing other meaningless numbers.Alphae - Lost City wrote: »Let's use Sasha's example, that a TOBL appears every 5 minutes. Hell, let's halve that and give some credit. That means that:
24*60 = 1440 min/day
1440/10 = 144 TOBL/day
144/2 = 72 10m notes/day
72*10m = 720,000,000 coins/day injected into the economy via TOBL per day
And finally, yet again, you miss the point that without something to compare that number to, it's utterly meaningless. For all you know, that amount could be the equivalent of "spitting in the ocean".
These numbers aren't available and there's no way to estimate them with reasonable accuracy (at least not that I can come up with), so all that's left is stating the blatantly obvious. Anything else is purely pointless speculation that I put little faith in.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
so for these coins will you get DQ points just by Handing in that Soft Fur that says someting about dragon quest0
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If you take in account the type of people getting all these ToBL. "Most" of them are going right back and buying more gold / packs (made from gold) and trying again. If you ask people how much they spend on packs and how much they get back; it's about even.
Say you buy 100 packs - current gold price at 500k
100x500,000 = 50,000,000 coin
you get 4 ToBL = 20mil
and 2 mp charms = 2.5-4mil
that leaves 96 packs of tokens = 96x15 = 1440
----trade tokens for wine and get 100k = 14.4mil
thats what 14.4 + 4 + 20 = 38.4 mil
a loss of 11.6mil
sure you can be lucky and get more expensive items or you could get nothing out of those packs but reg tokens
So what the big deal about ToBL again?0 -
A tip for being a moderator - never argue with the player base as your arguement will have as much creditability as a fanboi's due to your position.0
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MilliaEmblem - Sanctuary wrote: »A tip for being a moderator - never argue with the player base as your arguement will have as much creditability as a fanboi's due to your position.
Amen to that.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Now I know that PWE is ran by a bucket of monkeys on speed.0
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