Is there any point being a veno?

is there any point in being any class if you are never going to get a +12 nirvana weapon?

just enjoy the game, if you want to start a veno to grind a bit of coin cheap - go for it. you can do that just fine without a herc.

I'm a veno without a herc. Make friends that don't care whether you have a herc or not and do things with them. I don't see a herc anywhere in my future soon, nor do I care do have one. I'm taking my time with it. No point in getting a herc if I have to do everything in a party anyways.

It ceratinly can be fun to play hercless veno even if you'll find yourself unwanted in many squads. And it doesn't mean you have to do without TT/FCC runs, a couple of friends who know they can count on you can really make a difference.

I'm a full Vit arcane veno, (with herc)
You will find that in a squad with a barb (you need barbs couse pet's are lousy agro holders in squads) you are much better off using a pet that 1: does good dps and more important 2: provides debuffs, this will help your squad more then just showing up with a herc.

I bought my herc becouse i realy enjoy doing TT solo (and some BH, but never EVER try BH69 solo -.-)

I find that the free pet's rare or regular will do a great job at grinding and squad instances.
It's all about witch pet you use in wat situation.

*edit* I just bought an Armored bear (i know i didn't need it, but i like the way it looks.... don't judge me) and it is easely capable to tank in TT 1-1 and 1-2 and have yet to try 2-1 but with some effort it should be alright in there.

A good or bad veno is not based on which pet she has. At lvl 100 it doesn't matter since your pet won't get aggro anyway (unless you have a crappy squad), even in TT. A veno is all about keeping bosses amped, purging, luring and debuffing etc.

What does "DPS" stand for?

Thanks, that’s been bugging me for a long time.

Anyone who b!tches at you to get a herc tell them to buy it for you if they want you to get it that much.

Venos did just fine before battlepet packs came out so...

$200/grinding till your fingers bleed = Herc.
Playing for fun because it is JUST a game = priceless.

Anyone who tells you otherwise needs to get in touch with reality, we don't all have Mummys credit card.

Armoured bear at lvl 80 should do it. b:victory

Edit: Glacial walker // Crystaline Magmite till lvl 80- then bear from then on. IMO.

tweakz wrote: »

Venos are DD's like most other classes. Many bosses we encounter after 100 are AoE. Other pets tend to die too easy or require too much healing to do proper dd. Venos refusing to get a Herc is like Barbs who refuse to upgrade their armor, and choose to ride off others' work. If you wanna be a mooch: play a wiz, or one of those archers that begs for ammo.

No, it's not. My 78 Tabby survived Frost fine and i found the need for herc largely exaggerated. Oh, yeah, it's 3-3 and Nirvana right? Bosses after 100 are hardly the concern of the vast majority of the player base... And i largely suspect much of the same shenanigans at that level range. I've seen plenty of 1xx venos in forums posting you don't need an herc. Oh, but they're likely all fail, aren't they?

You want to talk speed? Herc isn't the best dps and you know it. Cost efficiency? How much time are you actually wasting having a full squad gimp their damage output so that a subpar tank takes center stage? Saving repairs? A pet with Threaten will reduce damage input by 36% for a good half of boss fights.

Not getting a herc is more like not wanting to get gear refines over +6. You don't actually need it for PvE and people demanding such are fail players. Oh, but we wouldn't want someone working for 102 actually taking a chance would we?

Demanding a herc is psychotic, no one playing 2 hours a day or less will get one in any reasonable amount of time and honestly, for all your tripe about how players who brag about how good they are turning out to be fails i've never seen another veno claiming to make the amount of coin you usually advertise as a standard for yourself. People like you are sucking the life and fun out of this game, i wonder how long is it going to be until you decide to start on the "game is dead" rant, which really is the pattern i have seen with those making unreasonable demands from the player base.

How long were you logging in each day when you were getting your herc at mid levels? Because that is precisely what you're asking others to do. And oh please, lord of wisdom, could you name exactly which bosses have an AoE that only a herc can survive without spam healing? How many are there really?

Squads tend to rely on venos with a herc in FF until roughly 90+, when the -interval people kick in and hercs can't keep aggro even on bosses anymore (more recently, my archer with fists and bow took and kept aggro from a herc on FF bosses at 90). Before that point, hercs represent one of the best DD's on bosses in FF, on top of tank (minus Fragrance for the tank part). A veno with a herc is also like, as tweakz mentioned, a barb who invested in their gear to give themselves more HP and/or defenses. It's a standard for a veno to have a herc, particularly by higher levels (80+), though to a degree at higher levels hercs become slightly more obsolete concerning the role they used to have (especially with certain instance changes). As far as ground pets that can be instanced are concerned a herc is still the best pet that comes with skills that make it a "legendary pet" already learned, and there's no reason to not have a herc or a herc equivalent as a veno.

And to the notion that a veno should be well geared instead, by FAR most of those people I found who did not have a herc, also had crappy *** gear, so a rather correct generalization would be correlating not having a herc to being lazy about gear too.

And at higher levels venos tend to be replaced? Why? Look at Shifong's posts of what usefulness a veno has. Purging? A BM, barb, hell, and archer can do that too. Before I got picky, I did pro Nirvana squads and, particularly on the 2nd boss, it was common to have BM's switch to a purge pole or archers to a HS (or TT purge bow). Amp? Uh, sin amp, HF, extreme poison, easily overcome.

In the end, squads prefer a herc the same way squads will prefer a BM or barb or sin or archer with higher APS, because someone who invested more into their character (whether it be time or money) development is going to ultimately be picked first. When they can't find a herc veno, then they will look for a different class altogether (likely APS), or at least a better geared hercless veno, which is a rarity, or, even more rare, a DPS veno.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Squads tend to rely on venos with a herc in FF until roughly 90+, when the -interval people kick in and hercs can't keep aggro even on bosses anymore (more recently, my archer with fists and bow took and kept aggro from a herc on FF bosses at 90). Before that point, hercs represent one of the best DD's on bosses in FF, on top of tank (minus Fragrance for the tank part). A veno with a herc is also like, as tweakz mentioned, a barb who invested in their gear to give themselves more HP and/or defenses. It's a standard for a veno to have a herc, particularly by higher levels (80+), though to a degree at higher levels hercs become slightly more obsolete concerning the role they used to have (especially with certain instance changes). As far as ground pets that can be instanced are concerned a herc is still the best pet that comes with skills that make it a "legendary pet" already learned, and there's no reason to not have a herc or a herc equivalent as a veno.

Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it's good. If an herc is tanking then the full squad is gimping their damage so as not to steal aggro. Yeah, even on (?) bosses. If you want a dps pet then a scorp or a wanderer would make for far better choices and i've never seen anyone in WC asking for them. Furthermore, those herc skills are only good for tanking, not damage. Yeah, there is reflect but the point stands. Your so called standard is based on a defficient understanding of a veno's role and of the true capabilities of pets other than herc. An herc is a substandard and incovenient tank. An herc is not the best dps you can get on a land pet. This is fact.

And to the notion that a veno should be well geared instead, by FAR most of those people I found who did not have a herc, also had crappy *** gear, so a rather correct generalization would be correlating not having a herc to being lazy about gear too.

Generalizations are just hot air, you have no bussiness messing with the specs of other players. Yeah, there is a minimum competence standard for every class but this wouldn't require expensive gears nor high level refines. Nor hercs.

And at higher levels venos tend to be replaced? Why? Look at Shifong's posts of what usefulness a veno has. Purging? A BM, barb, hell, and archer can do that too. Before I got picky, I did pro Nirvana squads and, particularly on the 2nd boss, it was common to have BM's switch to a purge pole or archers to a HS (or TT purge bow). Amp? Uh, sin amp, HF, extreme poison, easily overcome.

What's your point? That venos are useless as a class? Why don't we just say so are BMs and Archers since -int Sins will blow them out of the water? Veno remains useful regardless. You say Extreme Poison can substitute for a veno? It stacks with Amp and i always use them as a combo, and you can get that along HF. Why don't you start asking for players to all have optimized genies before going into a run huh? Ridiculous pretentious standards don't make you a better player, but rather the opposite...

In the end, squads prefer a herc the same way squads will prefer a BM or barb or sin or archer with higher APS, because someone who invested more into their character (whether it be time or money) development is going to ultimately be picked first. When they can't find a herc veno, then they will look for a different class altogether (likely APS), or at least a better geared hercless veno, which is a rarity, or, even more rare, a DPS veno.

In the end most squads are run by noobish players that don't actually like to think about what they're doing and don't want to try new things. You would think for the sake of variety some people would at least be more willing to experiment, but the truth is established wisdom is nothing more than a bunch of glorified pet peeves and ideals...
Your full post doesn't actually involve discussing actual gameplay, but rather you try to make a point out of wants and expectations. Seriously? For any given run there are at least 5-6 classes that are not actually necessary, wishful thinking will not make it otherwise. I've seen 9xers kicked out of squads my level so let me impress something upon you, we are all expendable. Unrealistic criteria may improve the chances of a select few but advances the game not one iota and has contributed to the game's decline almost as much as packs. Who wants to level up to 6x only to find out you won't be able to make endgame unless you dedicate sick amounts of time and money to the game? There is a legitimate reason not to have a herc, is called having a life. Just because many players don't doesn't mean the rest of us can't compete...

I just think..herc is very overrated, and I kind of miss my GW =/. I've used herc long enough to know that he's no big deal at all, and you non-herc venos shouldn't be stressing over not having this pet..

Thing is, he is GODLY 1-70. But after that, things change.

In the grand scheme of things he is good for grinding because you don't have to babysit him.

Please don't forget that the pet does not make a veno.. it is the veno the makes the pet.

You are OK.. you are still a useful venomancer with or without herc..


*is a bit tired of this subject..*

tweakz wrote: »

How are you getting to mid levels w/o earning enough coin for a Herc? b:cry

What is "midlevel" for you? I'm lvl 80 +55%, so yeah, I'm midlevel between 80 and 81 :-)

I'm slowing approaching my 8th million, which doesn't buy me a herc, AFAIK. Unless you decide to sell one cheap :-) And even the 8th million doesn't mean much --- I don't even have most skills, let alone maxed to whatever they can be at lvl 80. I wouldn't be surprised if those almost 8M couldn't even buy me the skills, maybe not even if I don't advance my cultivation to whatever it could be at lvl 80.

Anyway, if lvl 80 counts as midlevel --- I don't run dungeons. So that's how I got to midlevels without getting rich. And it has slowed down --- if I actually decide to do some grinding, I usually feel like "hey, I collected 50K today, lets do a Crazy Stone". Luckily I can't spend those 50K in one go :-)

tweakz wrote: »

-And that's how people end up being mooches. CS is for Cash Shoppers.

Not everyone gets 4-6 hours a day to grind nor is willing to. You do realize games are suposed to be fun?

tweakz wrote: »

You kids like to talk tough on the internet.

Sorry, but tweakz you've been that way in this forum for a while now. No one's trying to be tough around here but you.