Is there any point being a veno?

Silest - Sanctuary

Zairi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My gear is very far from beeing gimp and i know if i had less time or didnt spend a little cash i could impossible afford it. A legendary Pet...never.
If you level up the old school grinding and Quest doing way you barely get enough coins to get all skills and maybe 1-2 rare items with shards. Even if you know you can buy tokens and exchange them for flawless shards for 40k less it still is 140k. On mid levels with only 2h a day no merchanting and just the little relaxing grind/questing that is alot.

Yeah but the old school grind way comes without penalty as a veno.

We have almost no repair costs.
We never run out of mp.
We rarely have to pot for hp.
We can kill forever.

so much money can be made^^ it'll just take a while.

Zairi - Dreamweaver

Yes and there is the point it takes a while.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

You kids like to talk tough on the internet. Sorry, but I called you liar first. =P. You're boldness behind the monitor impresses me though.XD

You kids? I'm likely older than you. I remember Punk Rock from before emos ruined it...

I have answered your claims punctually, so you don't get to call me a liar since until you answer mine i've proven you wrong. And is a good thing you don't know me irl because my awesomeness would likely floor you. b:sin

@Zairi-b:surrender I'm trying to tame Tweakz, he'd make a great pet for the veno forums...

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

omg Tweakz, Puuulease, here we go again. Didn't the "what defines a bad/good veno" thread stroke your self pro-claimed pro-ness enough already ? -rolls eyes-


+1 to MANray

Zairi - Dreamweaver

MUAHAHA MANray.
Legendary Forum Pet: Tweakz
Skills: Trolling lv4, Roar lv2, Tough lv2, and hmm...Pounce lv2
Food type: Brainz

Jodz - Heavens Tear

Shulkie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

is there any point in being any class if you are never going to get a +12 nirvana weapon?

just enjoy the game, if you want to start a veno to grind a bit of coin cheap - go for it. you can do that just fine without a herc.

I haz puppeh and kitteh and piggeh and i wuv them.

Wat veno needz iz bramble h00d, veno is teh strongest class in teh game b:dirty

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Precisely my point.

Actually, your point(s) are about to get annihilated.. again.

How many bosses? Are we talking more than a handful? And you're talking tanking, not dps.

Here is someone who knows nothing about how a herc even holds aggro. Bash, Ream, Roar, those aren't near enough to hold aggro alone, and certainly without Bash on a herc on said bosses it's going to be the same as bash with crappy damage. Until the aforementioned level a herc is indeed DPS which is why it tanks, and precisely why it loses aggro to 90+ classes (sin, barb, bm, archer) with 2+ APS -- because it's aggro is primarily damage.

You think a barb can just ream aggro from a 5 APS BM? b:chuckle

Not great enough DD classes can go all out. Even on 1-2 runs with mediocre gears same level hercs loose aggro to me for crying out loud.

On said bosses? A true nub here. The whole reason a herc is decent DPS on FF bosses is because they are "[?]" level, and pets do not get damage reduction. You, as a crappy veno, cannot steal from a herc on those, sorry. Maybe with a complete set of -interval gear as an HA veno with plenty of HF from BM's, and 90+, yeah, maybe.

Later on, herc's can't hold aggro. Recently, at 90, my archer pulled aggro from hercs with fists or with a bow and the herc never got it back. This was a common occurrence due to the easy-to-attain -interval gear.

Most others? Wait, do venos get enough coin for an herc just by saving up a bit while leveling? Because that would make a liar out of every veno that has posted they sacrificed to get an herc...

Coin today is FAR easier to make than it was before, mostly due to TT and merchanting skills, and that's before Nirvana. Once 100 comes, there's no reason whatsoever not to have a legendary pet or the skills at very minimum.

QQ moar.

Play the game a bit moar.

Because i don't lie about how much coin i make ingame unlike you. That's right Tweakz, i'm calling you a liar to your face. And as usual you have ignored substance and gone on to discuss what you thought favored your skewed point of view. Not one argument concerning actual gameplay. Not a single word proving herc is necessary.

That's hilarious. I used to solo squad mode's for 2-1, 2-2, and 3-1, until my veno was 90. Granted, I already had a herc, but **** at these levels sell significantly even to this day.

I'm actually disapointed in you. For all your being an obnoxious troll you used to be able to make points that related to actual gameplay and not merely presume your opinion to be fact. I might as well be talking to someone who doesn't play veno from your responses...

Actually, you just proved you know nothing about the mechanics of a veno, mechanics of damage, mechanics of aggro.. nothing at all really. Indeed, I have a veno who is 100, and unlike you I know how to play it, and I am not naive enough to think merely leveling is enough to supply everything I need. Certainly, as I've iterated numerous times, a veno can get away with crappy gear, but if you don't have a decent pet with a money making class, you have failed veno class. Indeed, you have. Badly.

A herc'd veno is similar to a APS form of DD class (minus wiz/psy) in the sense of demand for a squad. As mentioned, the only true thing that sets a veno apart from other DD classes (every class has debuffs even if it isn't the exact same, and as iterated several other classes can purge and amp damage though not precisely with "Amplify Damage" spell) and makes it more useful than, say, an archer, or a sin, is the fact that it has a pet. If you get a crappy *** pet who can't damage, and, early on at FF levels, can't tank, then most squads will not want you. This is, across the board on all servers, a huge issue. If you (or in general, any non-herc'd veno 80+) wanna booohoooQQQQQQQ about people preferring herc'd veno's in FF or other instances like TT, play another game or go with the few squads who don't care. At very least, then, you're exercising your own opinion (as completely asinine as it is) in a logical way instead of trying to tell everyone else a legitimate preference for veno's that your veno tactics will help your pet hold aggro from anything at all on FF or TT bosses, hiding behind the bull **** of "well any DD class can't go all out".

Boy, I can't wait to read another hilarious post from you or other rabid veno's who think you should get away with being accepted in squads with solely putting effort into your veno's leveling and little else.

Zairi - Dreamweaver

Wow so much hate over one ingame "item".
It is realy sad that in realy every thread about this someone goes rampage.

If others dont like to get a Herc dear JanusZeal it is not your problem. Realy it isnt. The person you are so angry about in your post doesnt even play on your server.

Does some Venos Herclessness physically hurt you? If yes im realy concerned about your health and i dont mean that in any insulting way.
If you see one you can just take a deep breath then turn arround and walk away saying "It is not my problem.".
People sometimes take fun in things which is far from the things other people define as fun. Yes sometimes even the total opposite. That happens and let me asure you: it is not the end of the world, it will kill no one or cause anyone ending up in a hospital. That is the wonderfull thing about games.

I just get the impression from your post that you have atleast a strong raise in blood presure and heart frequence. If i misinterpreted that you might want to change the way you talk to people you never played with. Which means you actually can have no idea of those people, MANray in this case, Again, you are not even on the same Server it seemes. It is actually possible to respect other people even if they dont share your points of view.

I can respect that for you a Herc is essential to playing a Veno. I can not respect the way you communicate that. Would you realy talk like that to someone you just met face to face? Even if that person suddenly realy looks hurt or hm maybe angry and is 2 heads taller, 3 times your weight?
And why would you try to unload so much emotional bs on any person just because he/she has a diffrent point of view over "an item".. in a game.. then you?

Live and let live (uuuh sry maybe bad translation but i guess its clear). You should try that sometimes.

You should hug someone...
If you have a problem its fine, PM me we can talk, its ok. If you feel disrespected by that its ok too go rabbit or however you call it on me i dont mind. In the end, it is not my problem if you do, isnt it?

I will no longer respond to post like that and everyone else should do that too. No fun in trolling if you dont get any attention for it.

Sorry again for the bad english.b:shocked

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Zairi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If i misinterpreted that

Yes you did. From the looks of it, you wasted a lot of text just on that. b:bye

MANray_ - Sanctuary

First. Are you dishonest or outright stupid? Is your name Tweakz sweetheart? I addressed the points in your post, that's the one you should have responded to. Either you're posting on multiple accounts, dumb enough you can't tell which post you're answering to or Tweakz' fanboy sidekick. I don't much care which, but you may want to start catching up if you think you've got what it takes to go a couple of rounds with me dear.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, your point(s) are about to get annihilated.. again.

Actually, is a simple fact i was right on that one, which even Tweakz acknowledged in his cute way. You may want to read a convo before you jump in with lame triumphant lines.

Here is someone who knows nothing about how a herc even holds aggro. Bash, Ream, Roar, those aren't near enough to hold aggro alone, and certainly without Bash on a herc on said bosses it's going to be the same as bash with crappy damage. Until the aforementioned level a herc is indeed DPS which is why it tanks, and precisely why it loses aggro to 90+ classes (sin, barb, bm, archer) with 2+ APS -- because it's aggro is primarily damage.

Aggro is not primarily damage when it comes to veno pets, or else none of our pets would ever be able to hold aggro on us from the very start of the game. Skills generate threat far greater than the damage they produce. The irony seems to be is actually you who's clueless about this. And, once again, i was discussing dps, not tanking, which is the reason Reflect didn't factor in on the discussion. I corrected Tweakz on this, and there you go putting your foot in your mouth in the exact same way. Finally, wouldn't an herc's inability to hold aggro at higher levels run contrary to this whole "herc is needed" nonsense? The reason hercs loose aggro at any level is not just interval gear, trust me Psychs and Wizzies can steal aggro from an herc too. It simply is that damage output overwhelms aggro generated by use of skills.

You think a barb can just ream aggro from a 5 APS BM?

No, but apparently you think a herc can.

On said bosses? A true nub here. The whole reason a herc is decent DPS on FF bosses is because they are "[?]" level, and pets do not get damage reduction. You, as a crappy veno, cannot steal from a herc on those, sorry. Maybe with a complete set of -interval gear as an HA veno with plenty of HF from BM's, and 90+, yeah, maybe.

That applies to all pets genius, which is the reason a Scorp or a Wanderer will outperform a herc as dps. With the right set of skills even a Tabby can manage... And if you can't steal aggro from a same level herc, even on a (?) boss, i'm not sorry to say it is you who's got the crappy veno. I can't go all out with a herc tanking and got to give it some time to build aggro before i can really go in. And while i may be new to Frost runs i've been running TT for quite some time.

Later on, herc's can't hold aggro. Recently, at 90, my archer pulled aggro from hercs with fists or with a bow and the herc never got it back. This was a common occurrence due to the easy-to-attain -interval gear.

Once again, do you think Psychs and Wizzies can't steal aggro from an herc? This is not just on higher levels, if you think so then you were likely undergeared before...

Coin today is FAR easier to make than it was before, mostly due to TT and merchanting skills, and that's before Nirvana. Once 100 comes, there's no reason whatsoever not to have a legendary pet or the skills at very minimum.

Yeah, and the price of gold using ingame coin is 4-5 times what it used to be, not to mention with TT and DQ drops being nerfed is not really as easy to make coin as it used to be. But let me guess, you also get 1 mil an hour like Tweakz? And should we just all power level our way to 100 (nevermind gears or skilling) to enjoy such fabulous grinding profits? And as a note, i do plan to get herc and nix skills for my pets at some points but you'd be delussional to think those are close to being the same thing as legendary pets. That i don't think they're necessary doesn't mean i'm oblivious to what they can do and your mention of these skills does suggest you really haven't stopped to give the matter of base stats much thought. Oh, but you're leet and i'm a noob right?

Play the game a bit moar.

Right back at you honey.

That's hilarious. I used to solo squad mode's for 2-1, 2-2, and 3-1, until my veno was 90. Granted, I already had a herc, but **** at these levels sell significantly even to this day.

I guess all those threads about TT being nerfed (including the sticky in general) are just QQing right? And we should all aspire to TT solo runs even though even grinding seems more profitable at the moment? Come on, you're making it too easy.

Actually, you just proved you know nothing about the mechanics of a veno, mechanics of damage, mechanics of aggro..

Actually, the only who has proven being ignorant of game mechanics is you.

nothing at all really. Indeed, I have a veno who is 100, and unlike you I know how to play it, and I am not naive enough to think merely leveling is enough to supply everything I need. Certainly, as I've iterated numerous times, a veno can get away with crappy gear, but if you don't have a decent pet with a money making class, you have failed veno class. Indeed, you have. Badly.

Blah, blah, blah. "i'm so pro..." Yes you should have an adequate pet. No, this doesn't necessarily mean a herc and the majority of both herc'ed and unherc'ed venos agree with me. Apparently we've all grown tired of being lumped into one category or the other by people like you.

A herc'd veno is similar to a APS form of DD class (minus wiz/psy) in the sense of demand for a squad. As mentioned, the only true thing that sets a veno apart from other DD classes (every class has debuffs even if it isn't the exact same, and as iterated several other classes can purge and amp damage though not precisely with "Amplify Damage" spell) and makes it more useful than, say, an archer, or a sin, is the fact that it has a pet. If you get a crappy *** pet who can't damage, and, early on at FF levels, can't tank, then most squads will not want you. This is, across the board on all servers, a huge issue. If you (or in general, any non-herc'd veno 80+) wanna booohoooQQQQQQQ about people preferring herc'd veno's in FF or other instances like TT, play another game or go with the few squads who don't care. At very least, then, you're exercising your own opinion (as completely asinine as it is) in a logical way instead of trying to tell everyone else a legitimate preference for veno's that your veno tactics will help your pet hold aggro from anything at all on FF or TT bosses, hiding behind the bull **** of "well any DD class can't go all out".

Again with herc as dps, that's not an argument since some regular pets are better. And no one is QQing we are merely stating things as we see them. If you want to squad nothing but unherc'ed venos by all means go ahead. And what's this about aggro? You really can't get it through your head that hercs tanking for full squad are just wasting everybody's time? They're not the best tanks. period. And if you can't bring any advantage to a squad other than your pet then it is you who are a fail veno, regardless of whether you've got an herc or not. Jeebus, trying to follow your thoughts is like jumping through hoops, did you flunk English in high school? Please learn to write.

Boy, I can't wait to read another hilarious post from you or other rabid veno's who think you should get away with being accepted in squads with solely putting effort into your veno's leveling and little else.

Boy i can't wait to read another hilarious post from you or other fail venos who feel entitled to feel they're better players because they managed to get a herc and think they should get away with being accepted in squads as nothing more than glorified pet clerics.

Seriously learn to read, you don't have what it takes to go against me. b:sin I've got a laser shield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cp2Z712XtY

Edit; And you may want to skip to the very end of the vid if you've got a short attention span...

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear

I really am laughing at everyone getting so angry about tweakz, yes he has very strong ideas and yes, he doesnt always say those things in the best way. But in no way does he fail at pve, have any of you soloed a world boss?

anwynd

i completely agree with everything MANray has said

anwynd

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I really am laughing at everyone getting so angry about tweakz, yes he has very strong ideas and yes, he doesnt always say those things in the best way. But in no way does he fail at pve, have any of you soloed a world boss?

yes actually i have lol took awhile but i did itb:bye

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear

anwynd wrote: »

yes actually i have lol took awhile but i did itb:bye

good for you, although you would have more credibility if you posted with an avatar...preferably your main.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I really am laughing at everyone getting so angry about tweakz, yes he has very strong ideas and yes, he doesnt always say those things in the best way. But in no way does he fail at pve, have any of you soloed a world boss?

I've always been the first to admit Tweakz knows the game and has good knowledge to back up what he says. Unfortunately it is his rotten attitude that i take an issue with, he does have a habit of making outright moronic analogy and until he actually manages to convey his opinions in a manner that is respectful of other players this little exchanges are likely to continue---

Edit; And no need to rip the poor guy's head off just for agreeing with me. Tweakz posts without an avatar too and while it may be common knowledge who he is for people in HT it isn't clear for those of us in other servers.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

First. Are you dishonest or outright stupid? Is your name Tweakz sweetheart? I addressed the points in your post, that's the one you should have responded to. Either you're posting on multiple accounts, dumb enough you can't tell which post you're answering to or Tweakz' fanboy sidekick. I don't much care which, but you may want to start catching up if you think you've got what it takes to go a couple of rounds with me dear.

Speaking of cute..

Here's a cuter analogy -- those posting agreeing with you = your fanboys. There you go, now let's go have our fanboy orgy. Multiple accounts.. lol. Yeah, I made two veno accounts, on the same server no less. Oh yeah, posters like SashaGray also agreed largely with the veno should have a herc or herc equivalent pet for tanking/DD. I guess he's a tweakz alt too. Brilliant.

Actually, is a simple fact i was right on that one, which even Tweakz acknowledged in his cute way. You may want to read a convo before you jump in with lame triumphant lines.

Actually you responded to me, not me to you, genius, and indeed triumphant is watching your petty insults and laughing at you. Might wanna actually read before going off on a tangent similar to your tweakz nonsense..

Aggro is not primarily damage when it comes to veno pets, or else none of our pets would ever be able to hold aggro on us from the very start of the game. Skills generate threat far greater than the damage they produce. The irony seems to be is actually you who's clueless about this. And, once again, i was discussing dps, not tanking, which is the reason Reflect didn't factor in on the discussion. I corrected Tweakz on this, and there you go putting your foot in your mouth in the exact same way. Finally, wouldn't an herc's inability to hold aggro at higher levels run contrary to this whole "herc is needed" nonsense? The reason hercs loose aggro at any level is not just interval gear, trust me Psychs and Wizzies can steal aggro from an herc too. It simply is that damage output overwhelms aggro generated by use of skills.

No, the "herc is needed nonsense" comes from over a year of having a veno, having several chars through frost, and watching as hercs made FF a hell of a lot easier throughout the 80s, which is why I constantly mentioned them. I also mentioned their tank ability lowers in the 90s due to DPS classes (sorry moron, psychics and wizards and veno's in human form [regardless of their channel] are not DPS squads, compared to sins, fist BM's, and archers with -interval). Yeah, on a boss that has a level number that isn't "[?]" anyone can steal aggro from, particularly later on as damage all classes do, but as iterated before the likelihood of magic classes with anything less than a +10 - +12 weapon and endgame [15,000+ mag atk and -30%+ channel?] taking from a herc (yes, with reflect, of course, using bash.. what idiot wouldn't have a herc using those? maybe you, the genius), but you're asking to be laughed at if you think you can throw scarabs and steal from a herc on a "[?]" boss in FF or TT.

No, but apparently you think a herc can.

No, actually, I specifically stated the difference between 80s in FF and 90s. You failed again. b:chuckle

That applies to all pets genius, which is the reason a Scorp or a Wanderer will outperform a herc as dps. With the right set of skills even a Tabby can manage... And if you can't steal aggro from a same level herc, even on a (?) boss, i'm not sorry to say it is you who's got the crappy veno. I can't go all out with a herc tanking and got to give it some time to build aggro before i can really go in. And while i may be new to Frost runs i've been running TT for quite some time.

I've seen scorpions take from a herc. In fact, I did FF runs with tweakz on my BM when he was as low as 3 APS w/deicides and his scorpion kept taking from my BM too.

Once again, do you think Psychs and Wizzies can't steal aggro from an herc? This is not just on higher levels, if you think so then you were likely undergeared before...

No, I likely have the ability to comprehend the difference between a mob with a stated level and a level 150 mob with a question mark versus damage. You've demonstrated that you have no clue at all, and hilariously, can't help yourself from throwing out personal attacks to try and make up for your own stupidity and getting it thrown in your face.

Yeah, and the price of gold using ingame coin is 4-5 times what it used to be, not to mention with TT and DQ drops being nerfed is not really as easy to make coin as it used to be. But let me guess, you also get 1 mil an hour like Tweakz? And should we just all power level our way to 100 (neverming gears or skilling) to enjoy such fabulous grinding profits? And as a note, i do plan to get herc and nix skills for my pets at some points but you'd be delussional to think those are close to being the same thing as legendary pets. That i don't think they're necessary doesn't mean i'm oblivious to what they can do and your mention of this skill does suggest you really haven't stopped to give the matter of base stats much thought. Oh, but you're leet and i'm a noob right?

Actually no they have not been nerfed, unless by nerfed you mean no perpetual 2x. Oh, and this might have something to do with being able to do instances with a herc veno. I bet you're soloing through 2-1 2-2 3-1 (now -DC) in squad mode with your cat huh.

Who stated I was "leet"? You. However, you're right, you are a noob. We actually agree on something.

I guess all those threads about TT being nerfed (including the sticky in general) are just QQing right? And we should all aspire to TT solo runs even though even grinding seems more profitable at the moment? Come on, you're making it too easy.

Hey guess what, before the TB expansion came out, on the 2nd last boss in FF where you choose to pull the Soul or Body of Holeen.. people used to always say to pull the small one. Why? Because they said it has less HP. People like myself looked it up in the DB and tried to explain it to them the Soul and Body had the same HP but they were so up their own *** in their beliefs about a mob (similar to people's beliefs about TT drops) that they ignored conventional wisdom. Then the TB expansion came out and showed that they had the same HP. Now people changed their tune to the small one = more xp, the big one = more xp, or the small one gives the next boss more xp. There are also an ungodly amount of archers who don't believe that doing STA nerfs xp. Maybe you wanna believe some amount of people just because they post ****, but I've actually done the runs, and no, they haven't been nerfed.

Actually, the only who has proven being ignorant of game mechanics is you.

Oh yes, anyone can steal from a herc on a level 150 boss. I know so little about game mechanics.. lol. Hahaha.

Blah, blah, blah. "i'm so pro..." Yes you should have an adequate pet. No, this doesn't necessarily mean a herc and the majority of both herc'ed and unherc'ed venos agree with me. Apparently we've all grown tired of being lumped into one category or the other by people like you.

Again with herc as dps, that's not an argument since some regular pets are better. And no one is QQing we are merely stating things as we see them. If you want to squad nothing but unherc'ed venos by all means go ahead. And what's this about aggro? You really can't get it through your head that hercs tanking for full squad are just wasting everybody's time? They're not the best tanks. period. And if you can't bring any advantage to a squad other than your pet then it is you who are a fail veno, regardless of whether you've got an herc or not. Jeebus, trying to follow your thoughts is like jumping through hoops, did you flunk English in high school? Please learn to write.



Boy i can't wait to read another hilarious post from you or other fail venos who feel entitled to feel they're better players because they managed to get a herc and think they should get away with being accepted in squads as nothing more than glorified pet clerics.

Seriously learn to read, you don't have what it takes to go against me. b:sin I've got a laser shield.

Edit; And you may want to skip to the very end of the vid if you've got a short attention span...

Actually I ignored the vid. Don't care to waste my time on that as your posts are hilarious enough all on their own.

And yeah, especially in a FF or TT squad, hercs are a waste of time when you have a squad full of 3.33 - 5 APS DD's.

The obvious reason a herc is meant to be a tank or DPS is because 1) the skills it comes with, 2) the simplicity of using a herc right from being hatched, 3) the stats it comes with (pdef, mdef, HP), and because indeed throughout the 80s in a squad it's one of the best DPS elements in a squad in those levels. It can be the difference between, say, a miserable run at certain bosses like Dreadindra, or a relatively smooth one. But I doubt you can possibly grasp why that might be useful.

Hercs are popular, and they are popular for a good reason. This isn't one of those cases where people once said fist BM's suck then come to realize they break the game. Hercs and herc'd veno's have always been proof for a veno that investment into something for the most part pays off. If you want to be a rare veno and invest into skills for a certain pet to be similar to a herc then good for you. There's nothing wrong with that. However, what's clear is your dislike from a herc, and a good portion of the anti-herc veno's, comes from the social aspect of squads wanting a herc, and ONLY that. It's a sorry bra-burning mentality about hercs and a rather hilarious show of backlash from veno's who don't want to make the investments necessary to be useful in squads. Just like a BM going into RB and saying he's got mad skillz with pure swords and NPC gear. This is how you sound. And on top of being stupid, you're an *** hole, so that gets even more laughs. b:chuckle

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear

mmm true(laststatement~)

add in: wonder if this will get locked by the new mods

Siuki - Dreamweaver

lol i prefer playing this veno than my other herc veno...ppl get stupid in bhs when see herc and makes party wipes nonstop. for some weird reason people just can't understand that herc can't hold agro lol. even my walker holds agro much better than herc
herc never helped me get into squads, in fc squads no1 even asked me do i have herc. herc only made me into kinda guild slave cuz i could more bosses

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Siuki - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol i prefer playing this veno than my other herc veno...ppl get stupid in bhs when see herc and makes party wipes nonstop. for some weird reason people just can't understand that herc can't hold agro lol. even my walker holds agro much better than herc
herc never helped me get into squads, in fc squads no1 even asked me do i have herc. herc only made me into kinda guild slave cuz i could more bosses

Herc'd venos for FF tend to be a dime a dozen, so it's nearly like an RB situation where you need to actively get one if you're a veno (like starting one via WC or watching WC extensively), though before I quit I still saw a lot of WC's for a herc'd veno, especially for 80s squads. And stupid people in BH's are just way too common, which is why some days I just solo'd my BH's in my 60s/70s/90s.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

why would you need a herc for RB?

and why you all over the forums so much?

Siuki - Dreamweaver

actually i have seen wcs daily lately when ppl look for venos for FC and i never seen them shout for herc venos and when i played my herc veno no1 ever asked me to tank it

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why would you need a herc for RB?

and why you all over the forums so much?

Who said you need a herc for RB? Nub!

And I told you on the 17th or 18th that I was quitting. Gave all my stuff that wasn't bound to George and haven't logged in since.

I'm bored though, waiting for the hockey season to start to spam up a hockey forum. b:cry

MANray_ - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Speaking of cute..

Here we go again, another round with captain stupid. b:laugh

Here's a cuter analogy -- those posting agreeing with you = your fanboys. There you go, now let's go have our fanboy orgy. Multiple accounts.. lol. Yeah, I made two veno accounts, on the same server no less. Oh yeah, posters like SashaGray also agreed largely with the veno should have a herc or herc equivalent pet for tanking/DD. I guess he's a tweakz alt too. Brilliant.

Actually you responded to me, not me to you, genius, and indeed triumphant is watching your petty insults and laughing at you. Might wanna actually read before going off on a tangent similar to your tweakz nonsense..

Why bother quoting me if instead of responding to what i said you're just going to make stuff up? Yes, i addressed you first but that post has gone unanswered while meanwhile our dicussion revolves around my answer to statements made by Tweakz. YOU ANSWERED THE WRONG POST IDIOT. Go back and you'll actually find the post i addressed at you. And no, sorry, this has nothing to do with other posters Robin, since no one else has taken it upon themselves to actually answer posts that were addressed at other people. How stupid are you?

No, the "herc is needed nonsense" comes from over a year of having a veno, having several chars through frost, and watching as hercs made FF a hell of a lot easier throughout the 80s, which is why I constantly mentioned them. I also mentioned their tank ability lowers in the 90s due to DPS classes (sorry moron, psychics and wizards and veno's in human form [regardless of their channel] are not DPS squads, compared to sins, fist BM's, and archers with -interval). Yeah, on a boss that has a level number that isn't "[?]" anyone can steal aggro from, particularly later on as damage all classes do, but as iterated before the likelihood of magic classes with anything less than a +10 - +12 weapon and endgame [15,000+ mag atk and -30%+ channel?] taking from a herc (yes, with reflect, of course, using bash.. what idiot wouldn't have a herc using those? maybe you, the genius), but you're asking to be laughed at if you think you can throw scarabs and steal from a herc on a "[?]" boss in FF or TT.

Blah, blah, blah. Once again i get your resume. I really don't think about what you think you have acomplished. It has no bearing on the issue at hand. And when did i ever even mention or listed dps classes? Stop making stuff up you freaking liar. I said Wizzies and Psychs could steal aggro from a same level herc on (?) bosses. I also said i could do it myself. You don't believe so, fine, duly noted. This is one we can actually test quite easy. I wonder if you can own up to a mistake sweetie.

No, actually, I specifically stated the difference between 80s in FF and 90s. You failed again.

No, you didn't. You made a stupid question which i answered with sarcasm. And what's with your "actually" every third line? Do you speak valley girl?

I've seen scorpions take from a herc. In fact, I did FF runs with tweakz on my BM when he was as low as 3 APS w/deicides and his scorpion kept taking from my BM too.

So, proud to be pure mag Tweakz was using deicides on his veno? And he got 3 aps no less when the absolute limit for venos is 2.2? Or was he using a lower level wep? Seriously this is a fun story. And i thought Tweakz was experienced enough to handle aggro on his pet, guess that's another asumption out the window...

No, I likely have the ability to comprehend the difference between a mob with a stated level and a level 150 mob with a question mark versus damage. You've demonstrated that you have no clue at all, and hilariously, can't help yourself from throwing out personal attacks to try and make up for your own stupidity and getting it thrown in your face.

Likely, nah, don't really think so. And it was you who started with the insults baby. As much of a troll as i may be i don't attack unprovoked.

Actually no they have not been nerfed, unless by nerfed you mean no perpetual 2x. Oh, and this might have something to do with being able to do instances with a herc veno. I bet you're soloing through 2-1 2-2 3-1 (now -DC) in squad mode with your cat huh.

So TT drops have not been nerfed? Once again something it should be easy enough to verify. Just want to make sure you're not backing out of what you clearly stated. That's two things we can independently prove now. And no, i'm not soloing TT runs. I actually have a life.

Who stated I was "leet"? You. However, you're right, you are a noob. We actually agree on something.

Really, we've got some work to do on you understanding sarcasm because this whole trying to flip things around out of nothing doesn't really cut it outside a kindergarten.

Hey guess what, before the TB expansion came out, on the 2nd last boss in FF where you choose to pull the Soul or Body of Holeen.. people used to always say to pull the small one. Why? Because they said it has less HP. People like myself looked it up in the DB and tried to explain it to them the Soul and Body had the same HP but they were so up their own *** in their beliefs about a mob (similar to people's beliefs about TT drops) that they ignored conventional wisdom. Then the TB expansion came out and showed that they had the same HP. Now people changed their tune to the small one = more xp, the big one = more xp, or the small one gives the next boss more xp. There are also an ungodly amount of archers who don't believe that doing STA nerfs xp. Maybe you wanna believe some amount of people just because they post ****, but I've actually done the runs, and no, they haven't been nerfed.

Once again, you're not auditioning for anything dear. I honestly don't care to know about you. We'll just stick to actual fact, keep the stories for your g.i.r.l.friend.

Oh yes, anyone can steal from a herc on a level 150 boss. I know so little about game mechanics.. lol. Hahaha.

Aparently you do. I'll step up to admit my mistake if proven wrong, will you?

Actually I ignored the vid. Don't care to waste my time on that as your posts are hilarious enough all on their own.

Don't worry, things will pick up and you'll one day be able to afford broadband and a decent video card.

And yeah, especially in a FF or TT squad, hercs are a waste of time when you have a squad full of 3.33 - 5 APS DD's.

Yeah, i'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I would take this to be sarcasm except is worded in such a way that it doesn't matter how you read it you're just arguing against yourself. I'll be kind and give you a free pass on this one.

The obvious reason a herc is meant to be a tank or DPS is because 1) the skills it comes with, 2) the simplicity of using a herc right from being hatched, 3) the stats it comes with (pdef, mdef, HP), and because indeed throughout the 80s in a squad it's one of the best DPS elements in a squad in those levels. It can be the difference between, say, a miserable run at certain bosses like Dreadindra, or a relatively smooth one. But I doubt you can possibly grasp why that might be useful.

What i cannot posibly grasp is how any of your points suports herc as a dps pet. Skills actually work against that since you can't really replace them, i don't exactly know how you find hatching other pets complicated or difficult to use and stats are precisely the reason that it is not a dps pet since, once again, there are better. But really nice try, you got the meant to be tank part right.

Hercs are popular, and they are popular for a good reason. This isn't one of those cases where people once said fist BM's suck then come to realize they break the game. Hercs and herc'd veno's have always been proof for a veno that investment into something for the most part pays off. If you want to be a rare veno and invest into skills for a certain pet to be similar to a herc then good for you. There's nothing wrong with that. However, what's clear is your dislike from a herc, and a good portion of the anti-herc veno's, comes from the social aspect of squads wanting a herc, and ONLY that. It's a sorry bra-burning mentality about hercs and a rather hilarious show of backlash from veno's who don't want to make the investments necessary to be useful in squads. Just like a BM going into RB and saying he's got mad skillz with pure swords and NPC gear. This is how you sound. And on top of being stupid, you're an *** hole, so that gets even more laughs.

Ok, once again no pet will be a similar to a herc at its specialized jobs. None. You could have all the skills you want but it won't come close. I think it must've been either Solandri or Brael who calculated a Walker with herc skills tanking at a capacity of 7x% that of the real thing. So get that straight, i'm not out to make up silly stories about regular pets outperforming hercs on areas in which they simply can't. I had already pointed this out to you. And i have nothing against herc'ed venos, rather to the contrary i've always stated i believe getting a herc to be a smart decission for those players willing to invest the resources. I'm myself saving up for a Nix, is not about that. And for someone who claims to be laughing at me i do detect some rage. Is it laughing through your tears dear? I mean it is YOU who made it something personal, and YOU who's trying to justify himself. The truly pathetic thing is now it almost seems like you're arguing for hercs being more useful at the 8x level range and it comes down to people on your side of the argument always backing themselves into a corner because you can't ACTUALLY come up with gameplay reasons an herc would be necessary. In truth is nothing more than convenient which is what the cash shop was actually meant to do in the first place... Ask your dear little squadmate Tweakz how many convos he's walked out of because he was out of an argument. And don't let him sell you on having done so because it was pointless or something to that effect, he's never walked out on threads in which he knew the other person would never prove him wrong.

You want to shut me up? It really is very simple. Can a veno steal aggro away from a same level herc? Did TTdrops get nerfed? Two very simple questions. I don't actually have to test this since both a) i've accidentally stolen aggro from hercs before and b) i know i stopped doing TT runs because it was no longer worth it. But i'm just generous like that, i aim to please. I'll make sure to double spark Ironwood and Lucky with howl's debuff on next time i have a herc tanking TT, will even go out of my way to get myself a run as soon as i can arrange it. I'll do it not one second after herc's first Bash hit has landed, if you're right having every conceivable advantage should not help me at all. And i'll certainly record what drops we get, even if i know statistically one run proves nothing. But hey, it sure as hell beats making arguments out of thin air which is exactly what you're doing.

Edit; I do want to apologize for the wall of text. This may be in fact the largest i've ever seen. I'm actually interested in knowing if there's a record...

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Here we go again, another round with captain stupid. b:laugh

You're getting good at self introductions. Give another. b:laugh

Why bother quoting me if instead of responding to what i said you're just going to make stuff up? Yes, i addressed you first but that post has gone unanswered while meanwhile our dicussion revolves around my answer to statements made by Tweakz. YOU ANSWERED THE WRONG POST IDIOT. Go back and you'll actually find the post i addressed at you. And no, sorry, this has nothing to do with other posters Robin, since no one else has taken it upon themselves to actually answer posts that were addressed at other people. How stupid are you?

Nope I responded to you, as your responses to me have been the only one's I've read -- and you seem to use "actually" quite a bit yourself.

Blah, blah, blah. Once again i get your resume. I really don't think about what you think you have acomplished. It has no bearing on the issue at hand. And when did i ever even mention or listed dps classes? Stop making stuff up you freaking liar. I said Wizzies and Psychs could steal aggro from a same level herc on (?) bosses. I also said i could do it myself. You don't believe so, fine, duly noted. This is one we can actually test quite easy. I wonder if you can own up to a mistake sweetie.

Blah blah blah, test it. I've already foretold the possible conditions. Have done hundreds of FF's and not once has a magic class ever stolen. Gotta say, for your self-proclaimed wisdom you have little experience or proof to back any of your claims up.

No, you didn't. You made a stupid question which i answered with sarcasm. And what's with your "actually" every third line? Do you speak valley girl?

Teapot, kettle is calling you for your surprise buttsecks.

So, proud to be pure mag Tweakz was using deicides on his veno? And he got 3 aps no less when the absolute limit for venos is 2.2? Or was he using a lower level wep? Seriously this is a fun story. And i thought Tweakz was experienced enough to handle aggro on his pet, guess that's another asumption out the window...

So, proud to be moron is failing at reading comprehension. It was clearly iterated that it was a BM with 3 APS who had difficulty holding aggro off of tweakz's scorpion. Sorry but I can't teach you how to read, too. Maybe if you used your so-called "life" to practice said comprehension, you wouldn't be such a hilarious idiot.

Likely, nah, don't really think so. And it was you who started with the insults baby. As much of a troll as i may be i don't attack unprovoked.

Where's that teapot again?

So TT drops have not been nerfed? Once again something it should be easy enough to verify. Just want to make sure you're not backing out of what you clearly stated. That's two things we can independently prove now. And no, i'm not soloing TT runs. I actually have a life.

LOL. How do you plan on testing this? Do tell, because if your test involves probability it's going to require giving up a good portion of your "life" to do x amount of runs.

Really, we've got some work to do on you understanding sarcasm because this whole trying to flip things around out of nothing doesn't really cut it outside a kindergarten.

Speaking of kindergarten, let's go back to your reading comprehension..

Once again, you're not auditioning for anything dear. I honestly don't care to know about you. We'll just stick to actual fact, keep the stories for your g.i.r.l.friend.

Fluff. Indeed you've presented zero facts. Promises of tests, promises of this promises of that. Third time's a charm? Teapot is calling..

Aparently you do. I'll step up to admit my mistake if proven wrong, will you?

Sure, show me an assertion, without your usual selective, shoddy out-of-context reading comprehension, then set out to *not* waste any of your life proving something.

Don't worry, things will pick up and you'll one day be able to afford broadband and a decent video card.

Don't worry, you'll also learn about computers one day, and maybe why someone wouldn't care to waste time on some external link you probably "wasted" countless minutes looking for. b:laugh

What i cannot posibly grasp is how any of your points suports herc as a dps pet. Skills actually work against that since you can't really replace them, i don't exactly know how you find hatching other pets complicated or difficult to use and stats are precisely the reason that it is not a dps pet since, once again, there are better. But really nice try, you got the meant to be tank part right.

Ok, once again no pet will be a similar to a herc at its specialized jobs. None. You could have all the skills you want but it won't come close. I think it must've been either Solandri or Brael who calculated a Walker with herc skills tanking at a capacity of 7x% that of the real thing. So get that straight, i'm not out to make up silly stories about regular pets outperforming hercs on areas in which they simply can't. I had already pointed this out to you. And i have nothing against herc'ed venos, rather to the contrary i've always stated i believe getting a herc to be a smart decission for those players willing to invest the resources. I'm myself saving up for a Nix, is not about that. And for someone who claims to be laughing at me i do detect some rage. Is it laughing through your tears dear? I mean it is YOU who made it something personal, and YOU who's trying to justify himself. The truly pathetic thing is now it almost seems like you're arguing for hercs being more useful at the 8x level range and it comes down to people on your side of the argument always backing themselves into a corner because you can't ACTUALLY come up with gameplay reasons an herc would be necessary. In truth is nothing more than convenient which is what the cash shop was actually meant to do in the first place... Ask your dear little squadmate Tweakz how many convos he's walked out of because he was out of an argument. And don't let him sell you on having done so because it was pointless or something to that effect, he's never walked out on threads in which he knew the other person would never prove him wrong.

You want to shut me up? It really is very simple. Can a veno steal aggro away from a same level herc? Did TTdrops get nerfed? Two very simple questions. I don't actually have to test this since both a) i've accidentally stolen aggro from hercs before and b) i know i stopped doing TT runs because it was no longer worth it. But i'm just generous like that, i aim to please. I'll make sure to double spark Ironwood and Lucky with howl's debuff on next time i have a herc tanking TT, will even go out of my way to get myself a run as soon as i can arrange it. I'll do it not one second after herc's first Bash hit has landed, if you're right having every conceivable advantage should not help me at all. And i'll certainly record what drops we get, even if i know statistically one run proves nothing. But hey, it sure as hell beats making arguments out of thin air which is exactly what you're doing.

Edit; I do want to apologize for the wall of text. This may be in fact the largest i've ever seen. I'm actually interested in knowing if there's a record...

It's very simple. If hercs were not better at DPS (particularly in the 80s where I've mentioned they are one of the best DPS against "[?]"), and were not equipped with skills to help them tank (all of which has been iterated) said "[?] bosses", they would simply not hold aggro. A true DPS character you claim to be is going to steal and hold aggro from their equivalent. This is why a herc didn't stand a chance against my most recent character (archer) when she was 90, with reflect, with bash, without an enormous series of debuffs and genie skills to help merely steal aggro once in a blue moon, but actually tank in place of the herc. Please, show me. And try to at least gather up enough brain cells to properly comprehend a friggen post. I wouldn't want you to waste more of your life (that you proclaim to have more of than everyone else but yet post pointless walls of text on pointlessly talking about proving things opposed to actually doing it) on continuous frivolous posts, since evidently holier-than-thou has more of a life than others here who actually have the time and/or money to put into their class more than "boohoo i dun want a herc".

anwynd

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

good for you, although you would have more credibility if you posted with an avatar...preferably your main.

i dont post on my main because i have made alot of enemies & i dont need them ruining anything & also i post on this becus it is proof tht i have played before all the **** hit the fanb:chuckle

sleepcat

Is it okay if I don't post on my main?

Zairi - Dreamweaver

lol all i remember from those days is the endless QQ of 60+ people in my faction that leveling suddenly is such a pain. Now they QQ about hypers.
People will get tierd of flameing about Hercs anyways, they even got tierd of flameing about the flameing chicken.b:sin
Ok... just last week i readed a last "nix is so broken" but well there is always one who wont get over it.b:laugh

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

fine then moronic ppl ill make it simplier 2 get ill go do frost runs and only get hercless venos in party 1 ofc love the give hand (spark thingy) and ill kick out any herc veno from party how is that any complains i myself only want the sparks not a wanabe tank PET i see u haveing herc ull we kicked out of party hehe having fun massing with herc venos aaah love being a barb now b:victory

tweakz

Herc venos are a dime a dozen. Hercless aren't going to be near as useful as others in most BH100s, and early FF runs. What veno in their right mind would even be doing FF runs if they didn't have one? Now some people appear to simply enjoy doing World Quest / Crazy Stone and buying fashion. No problems there, but please keep your dead weight out of squads trying to accomplish stuff in a reasonable time. b:thanks

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

fine then moronic ppl ill make it simplier 2 get ill go do frost runs and only get hercless venos in party 1 ofc love the give hand (spark thingy) and ill kick out any herc veno from party how is that any complains i myself only want the sparks not a wanabe tank PET i see u haveing herc ull we kicked out of party hehe having fun massing with herc venos aaah love being a barb now b:victory

Since we're moronic people and clearly he has way higher English than us (his grammar is particularly way above ours), I'll do my best to translate his post in layman's terms so all of us peons can comprehend it:

Hello, I'm "Insecure", the future squad tiger rug. Nice to meet you. I feel worthless if I'm not tanking everything, therefore I'll go postal and kick out every herc veno I see. In all likelihood, that means in my 90s I'll be kicking out BM's, archers, and sins too, because they are constantly going to be stealing from me and preventing me from tanking. Btw, **** the cleric, I want all the sparks! I'm emo and insecure so if I'm not tanking, I'm gonna QQ and kick pplz out. Yay for slower FF runs! Peace out. /wrists