Is there any point being a veno?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Where in the world did you get that response? No one is arguing that a scorpion or a dark wanderer (or a seamonster guardian, another pet that can out-DPS a herc) can tank high-end TT bosses; however, they can out-DPS a herc when someone else is tanking.

Who's said the herc is the best DPS of all pets? The herc is the most reasonable pet that out DPS's pretty much all players early on in FF squads (necessary for early bosses like Dread who are a pain the longer they take), taking a particular look into the 80s, and comes with buffs to help it tank, on top of being able to place bash on it, a +dmg and +aggro skill. As iterated numerous times in this topic, once getting into the 90s the herc loses that luster, thanks to more readily available -interval gear from DPS classes (which mages [psychics, wizards, and veno's in human form using a magic spells] are not) but it is still viable for those squads that can't out DPS a herc enough to tank bosses (including TT bosses), unless that veno has bash off and/or no reflect skill used. I've also mentioned numerous times (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, unlike the nobody replying to me currently) that under the right conditions anyone can temporarily steal aggro from a herc. In the case of a mage, though, keeping aggro off a herc? There were other conditions for that but I've never seen it yet, at least not on PWI. The complete lack of probability in this, is why a herc is considered one of the best tanks, and the most reasonable pet to have for a veno, which is also why squads are picky about veno's in general for certain squads.

Another example. Say you can't find a barb in your 80s, but you still want to run a FF. Well, a pure axe BM (which are very plentiful) can pull mobs too. Obviously they are more vulnerable to dying, particularly on magic mobs before the 2nd boss, with the common lack of use of both Balance and apoth. However, a herc can and will easily tank every boss in FF (the 1st boss and Runewolf being where a veno's skill comes into play) minus Fragrance, where obviously that boss would be slightly slower to allow the BM to tank. Nonetheless, in that squad, a herc is considered vital, to prevent a 5 hour FF run.

I've personally run countless FF's with veno's (or when on my veno, other veno's) who didn't have a herc, and it didn't by any means wreck the squad. In the 80's though, not having a herc veno certainly made the run a lot less quick as it could have been, especially if you want to bother with a FF w/o a barb.

Regardless of all of this, in my OP, and many other herc-related topics, the main point being made concerning why hercs are demanded is simple. They show how invested into their class a veno is, instead of someone viewed as a nub who oracled and used NPC gear leveling up. Maybe it isn't the single most logical thing to some people, as there are always possible alternatives, but when squads world chat for a class, a veno with a herc is widely considered more apt (mainly because of the herc) for the squad. You can't argue with people who want specific things, unless you make your own squad (as iterated, comparable to veno's in general primarily needing to make RB squads since veno's are a dime a dozen for that instance, and easily replaceable with a fish, particularly psychic). If there ends up being a better, more simple pet that can tank bosses and allow time for a veno to either be slept and have the pet not die, or simply sustain a crapload of damage like that from Illusion Nemen 3-2 (or 3-3 if that's your fancy) or Cosmoforce (2-2) or 3-3 Deathflow or 2-3 Fataliqua, then the herc is no longer the best, most readily available choice. (Btw, I fully look forward to someone quoting a piece of my post then taking it completely out of context) Until then, it is, and those QQing about hercs and people not squadding them need to get over it and either find their own squad, or one that doesn't want a herc'd veno. In all likelihood irony will bite them in the *** when at 100+ they demand 3 and higher APS interval class DD's instead of pure axe or sword BM's or mages like wizards and psychics. It is in these particular cases, alike, that your investment into your character and it's usefulness to a squad shows, and those who simply just leveled their character get left behind. That's how it is, and how it's gonna be.

Edit: Nope, sorry MANray, didn't bother clicking that one either. Too lazy to bother, much like you're too lazy to bother with simple comprehensions a normal functioning brain would manage.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Edit: Nope, sorry MANray, didn't bother clicking that one either. Too lazy to bother, much like you're too lazy to bother with simple comprehensions a normal functioning brain would manage.

That's ok, i didn't bother reading your wall of text. Not a single word, just your edit. b:chuckle

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

You can try to poo-poo off your reading comprehension troubles as you didn't read things I posted, but you responded to them directly (between your essays of personal insults your feeble-minded elementary school friends might actually laugh with) in your posts and showed how bad you are at understanding what you respond to, so kinda hard to hide that part, genius. Another attempted insult fail.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lies

Talk to the hand. Here's another video for you not to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee6xkwVucIE&ob=av2n

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Cool story bro. Anyways, anyone else have something worth discussing or maybe something that doesn't include links I'm not gonna bother clicking on? This is getting kinda boring..

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Who's she talking to? Not a clue...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6BbK3Knfm4

sleepcat

You two are just so cute.

anwynd

sleepcat wrote: »

You two are just so cute.

from the looks of it they fight like a married couple who didnt have a good comunication & finnaly all the rage tht was held bck exploded *jumps bck into & shadows & watches*b:avoid

Belial - Heavens Tear

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the ones between soul degen and amp, to keep the latter from overwriting the former, is what i was thinking of at the time. but really, i might also take the position that the more posts tweakz leaves unwritten, the better.

Bah, get Sage Soul Degen and Amplify and then I invite you to explain why someone may choose to use Soul Degen and then overwrite it with Amplify. Don't judge, until you know what you're judging - evidently, Sage Veno skills aren't your specialty b:cute.

ON topic, is this horse now fully whipped to death?

MAN and Janus, you really are starting to sound like an old married couple!

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

This assertion of, ugh.. something unspeakable mentioned by you two is unforgiveable.

*kicks the horse a few times*

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bah, get Sage Soul Degen and Amplify and then I invite you to explain why someone may choose to use Soul Degen and then overwrite it with Amplify. Don't judge, until you know what you're judging - evidently, Sage Veno skills aren't your specialty b:cute.

that much i'll admit to. i can avoid only so many mistakes; i'm trying not to make the one of getting too far into sage/demon issues before i'm actually near making the decision myself.

ON topic, is this horse now fully whipped to death?

let's see: it's mostly a matter of opinion, with no real consequences of significance as to which side you choose, it's got a number of known-to-be highly opinionated forum denizens involved in it (myself included) as well as some well-known outright trolls, and Someone might be Wrong On The Internet. conclusion --- keep whipping, the horse says it's feeling better...

MANray_ - Sanctuary

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

as well as some well-known outright trolls

What did i miss?

Hey, and i did try asking her for a divorce the nice way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yqru5UXWGY&ob=av2e