class act lawsuit for all venos with a herc
Comments
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WHOA...weird, I just wrote something saying what Nowitsawn in a few more words...and it didn't postb:shocked
Creepy...
---Edit---
Oh, there it is...nvm -_-;;Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
You would have to prove that they maliciously or deliberately changed or altered the game so that your purchase was made absolutely worthless, and you would also have to prove that it affects you on a level more than I would think it actually does, but the basis for a claim could be made.
Of course, this is a silly freaking game. If you're so upset that you would sue a game company, you have greater issues than just not being able to solo 3-1 anymore.
Well my long wall-of-text citing the actual German laws got tossed, so here. The above post is basically your issue.
The agreement you made with PWI was parts of a hercules pet for money. Nowhere did they promise it could solo TT or cite that as it's intended purpose. They neither promised nor implied it. This means you have to prove your hercules pet is somehow defect OR, as the above post says, you have to prove they were deceitful somehow. A defect would require that:
1) The object does not meet it's intended purpose. To my understanding, a hercules pet is meant to be an elite pet. It still is.
2) Your pet does not demonstrate the capabilities or qualities of other hercules pets. No hercules pets are capable of soloing TT now, so yours is no different.
As for deceit...
You're arguing that a F2P MMO purposefully released elite pets for a class with the plan to drastically increase the difficulty of one portion of the game one year later so that pet couldn't solo it. Just lawl.I AGOREY0 -
Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »And that's why long posts are always copied from notepad b:thanks
Nah it wasn't a fluke, it's the damn forum.
I cited German law, used German characters, and for some reason the forum flips it's lid and can't process foreign characters, so it ends up deleting your post.
Watch, a sentence using "oe" and then the German equivalent letter.
"Leonard liebt das Leben in Koeln, weil er ein grosser Schwuchtel ist."
"Leonard liebt das Leben in KI AGOREY0 -
Thank you, OP. I needed that hearty laugh so badly. Between this post and the ones complaining about a free gift, Heaven help us when you get out into the real world with your "expectations". BTW, if you are seriously considering a lawsuit, you might want to double check on the consequences of frivolous lawsuits in your area.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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I_Snipe - Lost City wrote: »3. it seems like you're implying that the only purpose Veno's get a Nix is to PK.
.
is it not?Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
PWE has never specified what you can use a herc is for. You safely assumed the best possible use of the herc but PWE has never labeled the herc as a solo TT pet. Although I understand your frustration, don't threaten to sue PWE because it won't work, you'll end up embarrassing yourself (Even more).0
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Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Well my long wall-of-text citing the actual German laws got tossed, so here. The above post is basically your issue.
The agreement you made with PWI was parts of a hercules pet for money. Nowhere did they promise it could solo TT or cite that as it's intended purpose. They neither promised nor implied it. This means you have to prove your hercules pet is somehow defect OR, as the above post says, you have to prove they were deceitful somehow. A defect would require that:
1) The object does not meet it's intended purpose. To my understanding, a hercules pet is meant to be an elite pet. It still is.
2) Your pet does not demonstrate the capabilities or qualities of other hercules pets. No hercules pets are capable of soloing TT now, so yours is no different.
As for deceit...
You're arguing that a F2P MMO purposefully released elite pets for a class with the plan to drastically increase the difficulty of one portion of the game one year later so that pet couldn't solo it. Just lawl.
There are several different issues that I see. Yours is the option I chose not to take. Of course, the Hercules is a Legendary Pet. It still continues to function as it normally did. It did not lose functionality. I wasn't arguing this point at all. Clearly a fail point.
The option I would chose to take if I were stupid enough to push such a case is this:
I paid money for a service I expected consistency from. Due to recent and dramatic changes, I can no longer do what I was doing before.
This is somewhat of a bad analogy, but I'll proceed anyways. :P
You buy a new truck. You take it in for a recall or an electronics update. When you originally bought the truck, you were getting 40 mpg. Now you're only getting 35 mpg directly because of the update. Of course your car still drives fine. It still takes you to work, brings home your groceries, etc... but you no longer get the gas mileage that you expected. You have a case. You will most likely win.
Of course, this is from my limited knowledge of how California consumer law works, not German law. I'm pretty sure we have the most strict consumer law protections of any country. I could be mistaken though.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Mind you, you'd be sueing a Chinese company...pretty sure it being an international lawsuit would complicate things.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »Mind you, you'd be sueing a Chinese company...pretty sure it being an international lawsuit would complicate things.
The company that runs this version is american as far as I know. They would probably shove the blame onto PW-CN anyway though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »You buy a new truck. You take it in for a recall or an electronics update. When you originally bought the truck, you were getting 40 mpg. Now you're only getting 35 mpg directly because of the update. Of course your car still drives fine. It still takes you to work, brings home your groceries, etc... but you no longer get the gas mileage that you expected. You have a case. You will most likely win.
Of course, this is from my limited knowledge of how California consumer law works, not German law. I'm pretty sure we have the most strict consumer law protections of any country. I could be mistaken though.
- nothing done to the herc itself
- PWI did not state herc was sold for a specific dungeon run
- it was the community that named herc into a 'TT soloer' because it could, not because it was intended for that purpose.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »Mind you, you'd be sueing a Chinese company...pretty sure it being an international lawsuit would complicate things.
You're wrong. The American subsidiary of PWE is PWI, they are headquartered and located in San Mateo County, California.Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »see the diff. is there was
- nothing done to the herc itself
- PWI did not state herc was sold for a specific dungeon run
- it was the community that named herc into a 'TT soloer' because it could, not because it was intended for that purpose.
/facepalm
Apparently you need to learn how to read.
I'll copy and paste the argument that could be the basis for a stupid case...Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »The option I would chose to take if I were stupid enough to push such a case is this:
I paid money for a service I expected consistency from. Due to recent and dramatic changes, I can no longer do what I was doing before.
The point about the herc not changing itself doesn't matter. I already addressed this TWICE before this reply.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
The problem is though the Herc was never advertised as being able to solo TT's. The recent game changes havent changed the Herc's advertised purpose.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Soloing Twilight Temple with a Hercules is a bonus and as such, the Hercules itself is not designed specifically for TT and TT only.
The Hercules legendary pet is available for venomancers that want to be able to solo a good portion of the game, including bosses they will need outside of Twilight Temple. They are not required to pay a dime themselves for the Source of Force to buy their Hercules and can buy it from other players. The Hercules pet is in no way specifically designed for a venomancer to use only for the purpose of farming Twilight Temple.
Furthermore, Twilight Temple in squad mode was given that name for a reason. Due to the brilliant stats of a Hercules, it has the ability to tank monsters and bosses in squad mode, but it was not specifically designed for this purpose. Squad mode is named squad mode for a reason, and the fact the Hercules could solo this mode of Twilight Temple was little more then a sheer stroke of luck.
Your argument holds no water when you consider what I have just said. You were not forced to buy a Hercules, nor was your Hercules a guaranteed ticket to farming Twilight Temple squad mode on your own. And yes I'm going to keep putting squad mode in emphasis for a reason. No lawyer would take your case even if they were mentally deranged; they wouldn't win it.
This is coming from somebody who also spent money to buy a Herc for their veno.
Suck it up.
squad mode doesnt mean that is only for a squad coz not only veno can solo. even solo mode isnt just for 1 person, its a difficulty increase/decrease for 1 to 4 or 4 to 6 players.
soloing TT with a pet its not just a bonus, if it wasnt from design to not be able to solo TT with this pet they wouldnt let this pet stats or bosses stats like that in the beginning. devs knew from the start that this pet can solo most of those TT bosses since pet stats never change (no gear/refines) and was easy to test. else they would drastically increase bosses atk or put skills like armor break or amplify or something that cant be purified by veno and wouldnt be able to do it. i just dont understand why they put only few bosses on crack mode and that recently...
and yes... except TT i dont really find any job for my herc with the current changes of this game. some people ask herc for fc but thats it, even there a free pet can tank0 -
b:laugh in a country where ppl have sued mcdonalds for making them fat ill believe anything b:shocked0
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VerenKaunis - Dreamweaver wrote: »http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts
Yeah, she should have been more careful with it since it's still ****ing hot but McDonald's knowingly kept their coffee at an undrinkable (and, as amusing as it is to say this about COFFEE of all things, dangerous) temperature so customer's would get their orders and get the **** out so they can move onto the next ****.
If you're talking about the person who turned on cruise control and went to the back to make himself a sandwich then that never happened. Google 'Stella Awards' for some more funny and completely false lawsuits.
*shrugs*
People repeat the 2 stories above (and several similar ones) all the time but so few know the actual facts (or lack of facts as the case often is).
I'm guessing OP was counting on seemingly idiotic lawsuits such as the 2 above being some hope that her's also has some chance of winning but since I've established that in the first stupid jury case there actually was something more substantial than just 'I spilled coffee on myself' and the second case is pure BS then we can safely assume that OP's lawsuit has absolutely no chance of winning. Oh, it might make it pretty far just so people can laugh at his/her stupidity but there's no way it would go through.
The sanwich part is a very nice detail... I agree the story is likely a fabrication, i ran an internet search and could not find any credible evidence on it, however, what sites i came across debunking the case provided no facts either, and did seem to have a certain right wing bias which didn't exactly inspire confidence either. I'm old school in that i do believe things may still exist outside the internet (an old habit that may be the result of having grown up at a time when news were still conveyed using telex) so there's a chance there may be a legitimate filing out there which may have inspired the whole charade.
As for the McDonald's case, as i've said before, it was settled on appeal. Reading up on it i did find third degree burns, but the whole affair is ridiculous. The accident did involve a lapse in judgement on the part of the victim which, however tragic, would indicate negligence... I like my coffee hot and, despite Starbuck's best attempts, i still live in a city where it is easy to find it steaming.
As for the idea of suing an MMO it is beyond stupid. Your money is buying nothing more than access to intellectual property under terms agreed to in a lawful contract. PW does reserve the right to change the game and if you were to bring up an obligation towards certain customers you would end up with the problem the MMO does hold responsability towards all of its playerbase. In this case in particular PW could argue that the changes were necessary to mantain the game's balance, who's going to decide wether they're right? A group of gamers? Industry professionals? We all have a vested interest...
There are two things this moronic idea you can sue MMOs will eventually acomplish. 1) It will drive small studios out of bussiness, as legal services become a larger part of a game's budget. 2) It will increase development and maintenance costs, which all of us will end up paying out of our pockets one way or the other.
Yea, that's a scenario we all want, right? Only a handful of big companies publishing much more expensive MMOs...0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »/facepalm
Apparently you need to learn how to read.
I'll copy and paste the argument that could be the basis for a stupid case...
apparently you need to realize the thread is about the OPs case, not some imaginary subject your tryin to mix up and expecting the public to prio you
"The option I would chose to take if I were stupid enough to push such a case is this:
I paid money for a service I expected consistency from. Due to recent and dramatic changes, I can no longer do what I was doing before."
to cut it short, you are knowingly expressing a fail option.
Simply put, i posted that a fail option is still fail.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
if squad mode was intended to be run solo .. WHY do you need at least 4 people in squad to open it..
just cos PWI now let's classes become OP with event gear doesn't change that the mode was intended to be run as a squad - personally I hate TT with a passion (had one too many bad runs with a certain BM) so the thought of running squad mode solo just doesnt appeal anyway[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is no place in a perfect world for double entendre!0 -
Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes go facepalm your forehead more, it might stimulate some hairs to grow on your receding hair line.
apparently you need to realize the thread is about the OPs case, not some imaginary subject your tryin to mix up and expecting the public to prio you
"The option I would chose to take if I were stupid enough to push such a case is this:
I paid money for a service I expected consistency from. Due to recent and dramatic changes, I can no longer do what I was doing before."
to cut it short, you are knowingly expressing a fail option.
Simply put, i posted that a fail option is still fail.
Apparently it's way over your head again.
I'll explain more simply so you can better understand.
The title of the post is "class act lawsuit for all venos with a herc".
I agree the OP's point is horribly failed and I briefly addressed that.
I merely said that a case *could* be made, and stated why.
Read my sig. It's all yours.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Jenovadeath - Lost City wrote: »b:laugh in a country where ppl have sued mcdonalds for making them fat ill believe anything b:shocked
They only went through with it to save the monies.
b:avoid
Gives them an excuse to has tiny portions (means they can charge moar for less and people can't complain)
b:chuckledarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Shulkie - Dreamweaver wrote: »if squad mode was intended to be run solo .. WHY do you need at least 4 people in squad to open it..
just cos PWI now let's classes become OP with event gear doesn't change that the mode was intended to be run as a squad - personally I hate TT with a passion (had one too many bad runs with a certain BM) so the thought of running squad mode solo just doesnt appeal anyway0 -
its a different difficulty. solo mode isnt just for 1 person, can join up to 4 players iirc and squad from 4 to 6. that doesnt mean that you cant go with friends/guild and herc can be the tanker for TT. this pet has like the minimum stats needed to be able to 'solo' those bosses. like i said, if it wasnt intended to be able to tank those bosses they could have done something similar to bosses like polearm and other bosses where a veno cant solo but a cleric and some tanker have np.
Me wondering why the heck would they do something as pointless as that?
b:puzzled
Just because it isn't intended doesn't mean they has to code things to make it impossible.darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »There are several different issues that I see. Yours is the option I chose not to take. Of course, the Hercules is a Legendary Pet. It still continues to function as it normally did. It did not lose functionality. I wasn't arguing this point at all. Clearly a fail point.
The option I would chose to take if I were stupid enough to push such a case is this:
I paid money for a service I expected consistency from. Due to recent and dramatic changes, I can no longer do what I was doing before.
This is somewhat of a bad analogy, but I'll proceed anyways. :P
You buy a new truck. You take it in for a recall or an electronics update. When you originally bought the truck, you were getting 40 mpg. Now you're only getting 35 mpg directly because of the update. Of course your car still drives fine. It still takes you to work, brings home your groceries, etc... but you no longer get the gas mileage that you expected. You have a case. You will most likely win.
Of course, this is from my limited knowledge of how California consumer law works, not German law. I'm pretty sure we have the most strict consumer law protections of any country. I could be mistaken though.
An update/repair is a different law entirely. In this case the update wasn't on the hercules, but on PWI, so I dunno about that analogy.
But yeah, I was just stating that the only two possibilities for OP's case are:
1) Prove the product has a defect. This would be the case if it didn't demonstrate the promised quality, the implied quality or the general quality of another product of it's kind OR can't fulfill it's intended purpose.
2) Prove PWI made the sale deceitfully. This gets shot down almost immediately, which is why I didn't focus on it.
Then ToS is another issue to be discussed, of course.I AGOREY0 -
i dont believe i was talking about solo mode.. i was talking about SQUAD mode which cannot be opened by a lone player and thus is intended to be run as a squad.
edit: not wishing to disrail the discussion tho - this is not supposed to be about what is and isnt intended/permitted in game - this is about the fail OP who thinks they can sue a company who has made no claims that a particular pet is a necessity for running any instances or quest within the game[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is no place in a perfect world for double entendre!0 -
-- Actually I won a case very much like this.. but it was my me in a parallel world.. still worth the try here tho.. b:cute0
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Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »An update/repair is a different law entirely. In this case the update wasn't on the hercules, but on PWI, so I dunno about that analogy.
But yeah, I was just stating that the only two possibilities for OP's case are:
1) Prove the product has a defect. This would be the case if it didn't demonstrate the promised quality, the implied quality or the general quality of another product of it's kind OR can't fulfill it's intended purpose.
2) Prove PWI made the sale deceitfully. This gets shot down almost immediately, which is why I didn't focus on it.
Then ToS is another issue to be discussed, of course.
You're looking at this as a product case. I'm looking at this as a service case. PWI actually doesn't provide you with a tangible product, so your argument will most likely fail.
The viability of a case isn't determined by what you are suing for, it's the direction of the argument that will either win or lose the case.
The TOS or EULA doesn't really matter. It cannot affect or negate existing law. That's going into contractual, not consumer law. It could say that if you don't play on Friday at 1am every week they can come to your house and re-arrange your furniture.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
I didn't get my herc to solo TT either. In fact last time I checked he's till a virgin b:quiet
The real reason I got a herc was because no other pet is big and yellow and absolutely hideous, which of course makes my venomancer look that much more pretty b:mischievous
Lol seriously though, nerfs suck usually, but I don't think anyone is taking it THAT seriously.
Got Valium?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »An update/repair is a different law entirely. In this case the update wasn't on the hercules, but on PWI, so I dunno about that analogy.
But yeah, I was just stating that the only two possibilities for OP's case are:
1) Prove the product has a defect. This would be the case if it didn't demonstrate the promised quality, the implied quality or the general quality of another product of it's kind OR can't fulfill it's intended purpose.
2) Prove PWI made the sale deceitfully. This gets shot down almost immediately, which is why I didn't focus on it.
Then ToS is another issue to be discussed, of course.0 -
Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »while your at it, go sue McDs cause it made u fat
Well if you pay attention to the news that has happened already, and yes they won the case sob:bye.0 -
uh there is another problem, pwi is still beta iirc
That doesn't really matter either. The game has been live for over 2 years. If they wanted to claim "it's still in beta" one would just need to ask, when is this planned on going final? Well... never? Ok. The game is charging money for gaming... it's already been released and is in a number of different markets. What would be the difference of this game being final or beta? None. There is no difference. Since the service is being advertised, it is charging consumers, calling it 'beta' would make little to no difference in any argument.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0
This discussion has been closed.
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