Refining for cheap

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  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    ahomiya wrote: »
    The way the sheet has only cumulative costs to get from +0 to a certain refining level seems to make it only useful for people in exactly that situation. Which to me seems kind of rare. Most of my gear is +4-+6 already, so I'm not interested in how much it would cost to start from scratch to +5. I'm only interested in the cost to go from +4->+5.

    Because of the chances of failure, is it impossible to put a price on chancing it for just a particular refining level? The D.Orb only price from +4->+5 is the cost of a 5* D.Orb + a Mirage. What's the Tienkang+Mirage only price for +4->+5?
    You can calculate this by subtracting the cost of a +4 refine from the cost of a +5 refine.

    I actually did have a column for that on an early version of the sheet. However, I decided to remove it because there were too many columns and it was getting confusing as to what the various numbers meant, especially when they were of similar amounts.

    One problem, though, is that such a number kinda hides the risks involved.

    For example, let's say you decide to refine from +4 to +5 using a Tienkang stone, assuming 10.8k Mirages and 405k Gold. You've got a 45% chance of success on your first try, in which case your cost to upgrade is ~122k. However, if you miss on that first attempt you have to start from scratch and the average cost is going to be around ~2.95 million.

    A columns that says "1,679,689" for the average cost to upgrade is technically correct, but it hides the fact that its actually more like "122,337(45%) or 2,953,886(55%)"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • valkyriamwf
    valkyriamwf Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    hi guys, I am a Brazilian player from a server and play it sometimes
    I had tested some refinement and better ways of elders for each one
    I would like to help a little while you
    Forgive the mistakes but my English is very bad
    I do not know the names of the NPCs of PWI
    +1 +2 +3 +4 +6 I got in the ancient city of Thousands of streams with me (not sure the name's right) 11 points on the map
    always easily refined it several other items
    look at the photo
    the same place and the 2nd photo
    refined an oracle robe +5
    http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1978/96302528.jpg

    then tried +6

    http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2038/90620405.jpg

    following table refinement posted here in the forum
    I tried to +7 in Peach Blossom Grove successfully after being +5 +6 +5 +6 +5 +6 repeatedly
    this was the 3rd time I put this robe +7

    http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2415/36604596.jpg

    as I said before, I got +7 several times but always failed at +8
    until they heard rumors the other day and tried on a merchant's etherblade +8 (humans)
    here

    http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/7325/52728504.jpg

    always refined at 12:00 pm to 18 pm schedule in the game almost always successfully
    I use Mirage for 1 +2 +3 +
    tiekang to +4 and +5
    tisha to +6 +7 +8 etc.
    to begin to tighten up a string of failures because it usually comes after a string of hits
    make it up to +1 +2 +3 Direct
    close the dialog box open and put back your equipment and tiekang and try +4
    repeat this to +5
    to +6 place any equipment and go pressing
    wait a sequence of failure after hit
    0 +1 0 +1 0 +1
    so it fails immediately place your equipament to refine,put tisha and try +6
    repeat this with +7 +8 e +9

    answer questions if anyone has any
    I have helped someone b:victory
  • valkyriamwf
    valkyriamwf Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    if anyone has any doubts can tell me
    see how it works b:pleased

    pants +1 +2 +3 direct

    http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5756/93815018.jpg


    http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9696/19642784.jpg

    +4

    http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6449/94826008.jpg

    +5

    http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5897/72047038.jpg

    vambrace +3

    http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6174/50471843.jpg

    +4

    http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/191/25444234.jpg

    +5

    http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6145/90804692.jpg

    i have not tryed +6 because tishas run out b:cry

    but refining too easyb:laugh
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mmm, now that the Event Boutique has Tishas and Tienkangs, I'd say those refines (3-7?) will be a lot more popular.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I bet PWE made the event Tisha and Tienkangs less successful as the normal ones b:surrender
  • Ice_ - Raging Tide
    Ice_ - Raging Tide Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    It seems to me the higher the level of the item, the less likely chance you have to refine. Some items, like lvl 14 gear usually do not accept a free refine so easily, whereas lvl 8-10 gear seems to refine easier.

    It also seems like star rating plays a role, i can get a 2star set of daggers only to +1 and a 1 star set i have successfully refined to +4, that being said, blacksmith skills of lvl3 and weapons of lvl6 are being used
    Revenge is best served COLD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • celimos
    celimos Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    dfasdd
  • skimas
    skimas Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    huh????
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    My (evil) girlfriend and I both finally got to level 90 and claimed our Rank 6 weapons. We will be refining them up to +8 at some point, then using Dragon Orb Oceans to get them to +10. However, we're short on Mirages at the moment, so we're stopping at +5 for now:

    ☆☆Beamhoof Slicer, +5 at the Archo Elder, yesterday ~11pm:
    1004 Mirages, 18 Tienkangs (~10.6 million)

    ☆☆Lone Protector, +5 at the Archo Elder, today ~8:30pm:
    124 Mirages, 13 Tienkangs (~2.8 million)

    Needless to say, my girlfriend was not happy at all about her refining experience, and it probably didn't make her feel any better when mine refined pretty much right away.

    The cost using on-sale Dragon Orbs is about ~7.8 million at the moment, so my girlfriend took a loss. That's only the 2nd time either of us has actually lost money vs. Dragon Orbs, and we've refined about 30 items to +5 between the 2 of us, for a success rate of about 96%.

    Between the two of us I'd estimate we've spent about ~100 million to +5 roughly three complete sets of equipment. On-sale Dragon Orbs would have cost roughly ~225 million or so, so the ~3 million loss my girlfriend just took and the ~2 million loss I once took a long time ago are pretty much meaningless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • foxconn
    foxconn Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    So what is the limit u can refine too?
  • soulslayer32
    soulslayer32 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    spam ftw
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    foxconn wrote: »
    so What Is The Limit U Can Refine Too?

    +12 .
  • __FOXY__ - Lost City
    __FOXY__ - Lost City Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    nice post =)
  • zzzxzzz
    zzzxzzz Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    To warren:

    at what refine lvl shoudl i use tienkang stones and/or tisha stones? (Tienkang stones look better in my eyes but im not sure)
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Most people use tienkang for +3 to +5, then Tisha from +5 to +7
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    zzzxzzz wrote: »
    To warren:

    at what refine lvl shoudl i use tienkang stones and/or tisha stones? (Tienkang stones look better in my eyes but im not sure)
    For armour/accessories, what Boogiepanda said: Tienkang for +3 to +5, Tisha for up to +7 (or +8 if you're willing to risk it to try to get a little more savings), then Dragon Orbs.

    For weapons you are probably better using Tienkangs for +2 as well.

    To be sure, though, you should use the spreadsheet and put in current Gold/Mirage prices and it will confirm it for you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Finally got enough Mirages to try to finish refining my ☆☆Lone Protector to +10.

    My plan was to get to +7, then make/use a Dragon Orb 8, then two Dragon Orb Oceans. As per usual, I simply used the Archo Elder and ignored all of Duke Blacke's apocryphal advice.

    First, I got to +6 on my first Tisha, then failed three times in a row (Tisha, Tisha, Tienkang) to reset back to +0. Boo hoo, no stunning luck for me today.

    After that, getting up to +7 took a mere 538 Mirages, 34 Tienkangs, and 14 Tishas, for a total cost of ~11.4 million, which was a lot less than the expected average of ~23.2 million and a whole lot less than the on-sale Dragon Orb cost of ~34 million.

    Since I had more than enough Mirages to try again should I fail, I decided to try for +8. In theory there's about 5% savings to be had vs a Dragon Orb 8, so it's a question of personal preference whether to risk it or not. Of course I failed, though, so I had to start over again.

    Getting the second +7 took me another 984 Mirages, 87 Tienkangs, and 20 Tishas, for a cost of ~23 million, which was completely average.

    My Mirage stack was looking a bit thin, so I decided to pay the 5% premium for the +8 and used a Dragon Orb 8 and two Dragon Orb Oceans to finish the refine.

    The final cost of getting to +10 (including my initial +5 that I lost) was ~130 million, which comes out to pretty much exactly the same cost I'd have paid if I'd used Dragon Orbs. Overall, I was slightly less lucky than average.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • Ahkhu - Harshlands
    Ahkhu - Harshlands Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    i used this process several times with the aid of refining enhancement materials but the result was generally unsatisfactory. this unfair considering the cost of refining.
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I guess I am lucky, I have refined about 8 pieces or gear and only failed once. Two of them went to +2 on first attempt. Only my weapon failed going from +1 to +2 once, but went back from 0 to +2 without a problem.
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • Kaelinae - Heavens Tear
    Kaelinae - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I also wish to post an inquiry...

    Does the Quality of the weapon count towards/against the ease of refinement?

    By that I mean does a 1 star white named refine easier than a 3 star? [y/n]?
    If so at what levels does this start to apply? [???]
    Also does player level have anything to do with refinement? [y/n]?

    I find a lot of variables still in play here that have yet to be answered.

    Hmm....b:question
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Kaelinae - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I also wish to post an inquiry...

    Does the Quality of the weapon count towards/against the ease of refinement?

    By that I mean does a 1 star white named refine easier than a 3 star? [y/n]?
    If so at what levels does this start to apply? [???]
    Also does player level have anything to do with refinement? [y/n]?

    I find a lot of variables still in play here that have yet to be answered.

    No to all three.

    It should be pretty much obvious, though:
    1. No one who is sane refines white items
    2. No one who is sane will refine low level items
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • adicted2art
    adicted2art Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    loool
  • thorus61
    thorus61 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Hi! I'm a Player of PWI since year 2005 before the Rising Tide Expansion...
    My inquiry is, How Can i to get the Jonas' Blessing Skill????
    Thanks in advanced for the replies!!!
    Thorus61
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Facebook connect.
  • Wonkha - Raging Tide
    Wonkha - Raging Tide Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    After that, getting up to +7 took a mere 538 Mirages, 34 Tienkangs, and 14 Tishas, for a total cost of ~11.4 million, which was a lot less than the expected average of ~23.2 million and a whole lot less than the on-sale Dragon Orb cost of ~34 million.

    b:faint b:faint b:faint

    I still don't even know what Refining will do to a wepon/armor b:shocked Any examples?
  • Shavonne_ - Heavens Tear
    Shavonne_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    There's no such thing as refining for "cheap" anymore. I bet that devs/gms further changed refining chances.. Tried to get my robe to +3 from +4, used tienkangs and over 150 mirages and robe is barely at +2 now.

    Chinese capitalistic communists. What an oxymoron.
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Shavonne_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    There's no such thing as refining for "cheap" anymore. I bet that devs/gms further changed refining chances.. Tried to get my robe to +3 from +4, used tienkangs and over 150 mirages and robe is barely at +2 now.
    This accusation has been made about 4 times now. In each case somebody has had a run of bad luck refining 1 or 2 items and becomes convinced that the odds must have changed, but then when I go ahead and do refining of my own I find the odds are the same.

    I find that the most effective fix for "the devs changed the odds!" is the same as the cure for "I always have bad-luck!". Namely, just keep accurate notes and use a large sample size and somehow the devs know you're doing it and they change the odds back, while the universe somehow figures out you're watching it and so it temporarily turns off your bad luck.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    refined belt +7 with 220 mirages 2 weeks ago b:bye
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Admante - Dreamweaver
    Admante - Dreamweaver Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Started at +5 deicides.
    Tisha -> fail
    Tienkang -> success
    Tisha -> fail
    Tienkang -> success
    Tisha -> fail
    Tienkang -> success
    Tisha -> success
    Tisha -> success

    +7 for cheap ^^
  • Magiere - Dreamweaver
    Magiere - Dreamweaver Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Finally remembered why i hate stupid mirage refining without Dragon Orbs.

    Used freaking 750 mirages, and 8 gold worth of Tiankang/Tishas on my Nirvan Wrists..
    hoping to get it at least to +5 or +6.
    Used another 300 mirages and wasn't even able to get it to +4 using tiankang, ended up with +1, awesome.
    failed 7/7 times then.

    Highest i got was +4...could have gotten +6 with dragon orbs alone -_-
    "Oh how i missed you Dragon Orbs :3"
    Originally written by Satchiko to me regarding old spice commercial :
    Hello Perfect World. Look at your cleric, now back to me, now back to your cleric, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me. But if you stopped being a noob and started wearing sunglasses you could act like you're me. Look down, back up, where are you? You're on Dreamweaver with the cleric your cleric could be like. What's in your hand, back at me. It's an inventory filled with the gear you want. Look again, the gear is now diamonds. Anything is possible with sunglasses. I'm flying on starter wings.

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