An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

SoIar - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Ashivas - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On DW server, this hasn't helped any new factions at all. In fact, it's made it worse. We've gone from having the mammoth dominant faction owning all but 8 territories, to owning all but 5 now. They've won a territory off our #2 fac every week so far. Yea... it's doing wonders for the smaller factions.

@GM: I prefer the old TW system, and change the font back. And if you take packs out i'll cut you. High gold prices make me happy.

True... Dreamweaver tw has gotten a lot worst ...tbh i woudlnt be surprised if this game drops dead by winter at this rate.

HotCocoa - Lost City · August 2010

I haven't played this game in about 8 months, and now I keep hearing about the bad sh*t that has been happening to this game. I have played this game for a little over a year, and I can tell you by logging on for about 5 mins, its not the same it was a year ago. Now Im thinking PWI is not worth it anymore. They only care about the money they are making and dont care about the players. *removed*

ortini · August 2010

I have been playing pw for about a year and 3 months. In the last 3-4 months, "updates" do not fix any problems, such as Lunar Glade quests that don't work, incorrect autopaths to quest minibosses (Slitt), the falling downhill rubberband thing, etc. They only take away ways for players to make coins in the game. I for one, spend a little real money to have a couple things from the boutique like a mount or faster flyer here and there. I do not purchase large quantities of packs, and never will. Sadly, I have requested that several things be done repeatedly:

Increase XP from mobs and quests for level 70 and above
Increase drops (really suck lately)
Provide the ability to lock toolbars (so my F1-FX and 1-9 key rows don't change to something else by me hitting the wrong keys
Ability to turn off the popup over spells etc., they get in the way
Faction bank like unnamed MMORPG

I would like to see the world chat cleaned up somehow, with world chat only allowed for finding a squad, etc. Things for sale should be in the trade channel only. Spam like "I love you bunchkins" should be in private chat, or make different teles for these people to spend their mother's money on. The ability to turn off world chat and Duke's stuff would be immensely appreciated.

I do not TW and have not really wanted to, I'm not much of a PvP player. The removal of coins is a bad idea though.

I have a level 99 wiz, and an 80 veno, and some lower characters I don't play. But seriously with all the negative changes for non cash shop players in the last few months, I don't enjoy the game as much as I used to. If I can find something better, I may stop playing.

Everyone should realize that this game is not a game to the owners. It is a business, and their only (and increasingly transparent) motive is to increase profits, not keep the gamers happy. Personally, I would rather have a million people play and make an average of $5 a month from each than have 100,000 and make $50 a month from them. It works out to the same bottom line, but they are too greedy for that.

The powers that be don't really fix anything. The updates waste time changing fonts and **** them up, renaming minibosses and mats that don't need renaming. They give us new and useless updates like the little buttons in chat the say World, etc. when we already knew what they were.

It's all a sham, they aren't going to do anything that doesn't put more money in their pockets.

quietwarrior · August 2010

First and foremost I have enjoyed my 18 months of playing PWI nearly every single day. I have spent a lot of real life money trying to level up to a point of being competitive in TW's and such.
The mirage payment system is absurd they cannot be used as cash and refining is only a good as luck holds...

As I write this all over the game people are scrambling for other games to play and these are players like me who are long term players.

As for the new bidding system? It's already been compomised and only those who have the cash will participate now it might as well be by invitation only.

You have made poor changes in the past and rapidly changed them why then this time are you letting this go on?

I wish I knew that what I write would be listened to but if these words are heard....

Try limiting the number of territories any faction can have

Think about creating a TW Training instance

and unless you'll accept mirage stones to build towers, and do bidding get rid of the payment with mirages.

And finally I think there are more people playing in all the other factions than there are in the so called "Big Factions" you might try catering to them.

Thanks for listening

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · August 2010

quietwarrior wrote: »

First and foremost I have enjoyed my 18 months of playing PWI nearly every single day. I have spent a lot of real life money trying to level up to a point of being competitive in TW's and such.
The mirage payment system is absurd they cannot be used as cash and refining is only a good as luck holds...

As I write this all over the game people are scrambling for other games to play and these are players like me who are long term players.

As for the new bidding system? It's already been compomised and only those who have the cash will participate now it might as well be by invitation only.

You have made poor changes in the past and rapidly changed them why then this time are you letting this go on?

I wish I knew that what I write would be listened to but if these words are heard....

Try limiting the number of territories any faction can have

Think about creating a TW Training instance

and unless you'll accept mirage stones to build towers, and do bidding get rid of the payment with mirages.

And finally I think there are more people playing in all the other factions than there are in the so called "Big Factions" you might try catering to them.

Thanks for listening

ONLY who is listening to your post is us, former players. NOT GM or dev. b:chuckle

//Hysteria\ - Sanctuary4 · August 2010

*removed*

//Hysteria\ - Sanctuary4 · August 2010

lmfao at my previous post being removed after like a whole minute of being out, guess i cant speak the truth about the gms/devs of pwi? lmfao good stuff.

frankieraye · August 2010

//Hysteria\ - Sanctuary wrote: »

lmfao at my previous post being removed after like a whole minute of being out, guess i cant speak the truth about the gms/devs of pwi? lmfao good stuff.

You can speak the truth without talking about certain bodily functions.

//Hysteria\ - Sanctuary4 · August 2010

meh woulda been less powerful then.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear · August 2010

//Hysteria\ - Sanctuary wrote: »

meh woulda been less powerful then.

And now it has no power at all.

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

You can speak the truth without talking about certain bodily functions.

Just the way you could also start reading and taking note of these replies. Seriously, 83 pages of well thought out replies for once, and it's not being taken seriously. Really, now, have you EVER had to ban this many people and lock/move this many topics before? It's been worse since this patch and all you mods seem to care about is people acting inappropriately. Hint, hint?!

Are the mods just not listening? Are they working on it? Are they all on vacation with tea and cookies? For the record, you could tell the Devs that this is America, not China. We're not going to accept being kept in the dark about everything, in case you have not noticed.

[/end second rant]

Chovan - Harshlands · August 2010

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

What??!?!??!?!

Wait.....

Lemme re-read that.....

So you think these changes will stop 1 faction from taking over the map?

*wait a sec so I stop laughing*

......

......

Sorry but ROTFL

......

Am I the only one here who sees the EXACT OPPOSITE happening???

It makes it SOOO much easier for one faction to take the whole map.

Let me run something by you that you might not have thought of.

Ever thought that restricting the number of lands a single faction can own to something?

Nooo thought not I mean why do something as simple as that when you can just wreck the entire system instead b:angryb:angryb:angry

When are you going to stop trying to feed us pig swill and just admit you made this change to make people spend more money on the cash shop for charms. Everyone damn well knows it and knows that was your sole intention, all these excuses you keep coming out with makes you look stupid.

If you REALLY wanted to lower gold price, well I aint gonna tell you cos several hundred other people have already pointed it out and yet again you completely dodge the issue.

Coraline - Lost City · August 2010

Chovan - Harshlands wrote: »

What??!?!??!?!

Ever thought that restricting the number of lands a single faction can own to something?

That was a rule in the beginning, factions couldn't own all of the major towns and there were other rules too. But I guess they never activated it.

RedsRose - Lost City · August 2010

Coraline - Lost City wrote: »

That was a rule in the beginning, factions couldn't own all of the major towns and there were other rules too. But I guess they never activated it.

Just like no being able to fly in TW, which is still in the "Rules" on this and all other PW sites. b:surrender

//Hysteria\ - Sanctuary5 · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

You can speak the truth without talking about certain bodily functions.

tbh, i could have been much harsher, point is, most of the pwi playerbase is sick of feeling like pwi is just crapping all over us, in more ways than just the cash shopping, in fact, ive never paid a dime and i do fine, its taken some creativity but ive found ways to make money, im just talkin bout almost all the changes in general, "if it aint broke dont fix it" other then some bugs thats how this game was, instead of fixing those bugs the patches just add more bs to the game, and on top of it, it seems like the devs dont even care, is anything the players are saying even being heard? probly not with everything gettin moved and locked, and the ban on Kephras was pretty lame btw, you know somethings up when high lvls who havent posted before are now, and when generally calm ppl are starting to lose that calmness, its not all a big coincedence. and on a final note, even though im against packs in general, if they were once in a while, id be fine with that, but its always packs on top of packs on top of packs, thats where it gets old, and the idea of taking out the 10 mil bank note seems pretty damn genuine, yet i doubt its going to be touched? just some things to pass along to the devs, if of course this isnt locked/removed.

/endrant

ormathon · August 2010

Well TW update was a epic fail. Since you didnt reset the map. So the rich people are still rich and the poor people got no chance in hell to do anything. And you pretty much made 50% of all barbs quit or reroll to a less expensive class. You cant miss the ripple effects of ur stone thrown in the pond with the TW change. It was no small pebble, it was a mountain you threw in.

Everything about TW change was fine except celestones, you could have just cut the pay in half or 1/3:d that would have been better. And ofc reset the map.

And i really need to add this. THIS IS NOT CHINA!! We dont have 30 gold farmers living in small rooms!! So stop pushing their epic nerfs onto us. Without even trying to stop it or tune it to fit us.

Kyphe - Harshlands · August 2010

ormathon wrote: »

And i really need to add this. THIS IS NOT CHINA!! We dont have 30 gold farmers living in small rooms!! So stop pushing their epic nerfs onto us. Without even trying to stop it or tune it to fit us.

+1

I think that's what irritates me the most.

Although I'm well aware that changing the coding for some stuff isn't easy, it still doesn't make it any less irritating.

Piliener - Lost City · August 2010

Again thanks for update number 2, but it's missing a distinct lack of ideas being thrown around in the office and a timeframe as to what to expect changes wise.

Indiri - Archosaur · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

Update 2

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

Curbing inflation is a nice idea but the devs are going about it all wrong. What they are doing is taking away the ways of making coin on our own without zen. We can't grind and make cash with the DQ prices/repair bills. We can't use TW pay. We can't do some TTs now with this last update. All of these things are how we pay for pots/etc. So if you take away all of the income from doing these things then how are we expected to raise any money for anything without relying soley on zen?

I understand this is a business and the company needs people to charge zen. I have ZERO problems with that. But there were lots of people (including myself) who were regularly charging (and using the other ways of making coin to supplement and ease the pain on our wallets) so that was not an issue. BUT we need those free players in here or we have no one to squad with. Without the free players, this game would be too empty and not much fun. As a partial cash shopper I still need to be able to raise some of my own cash in game and the manner in which the devs are trying to curb inflation makes this game impossible to play without being *just* a cash shopper.

TW is not the reason for all of the players' anger by itself, it is just that proverbial final straw. As a result of that update, I have not charged a single dollar to this game since then, when I was doing it once a week (and as a result have played *very* little as well since I'm short on coin without charging).

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to curb inflation then MAKE GOLD A SET PRICE. Don't let the market decide the price, set it yourselves. But stop trying to take away every possible way of making any money in this game or you will find that people who can't raise cash without zen will simply quit and where does that leave this game then?

liyrana · August 2010

Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »

Curbing inflation is a nice idea but the devs are going about it all wrong. What they are doing is taking away the ways of making coin on our own without zen. We can't grind and make cash with the DQ prices/repair bills. We can't use TW pay. We can't do some TTs now with this last update. All of these things are how we pay for pots/etc. So if you take away all of the income from doing these things then how are we expected to raise any money for anything without relying soley on zen?

I understand this is a business and the company needs people to charge zen. I have ZERO problems with that. But there were lots of people (including myself) who were regularly charging (and using the other ways of making coin to supplement and ease the pain on our wallets) so that was not an issue. BUT we need those free players in here or we have no one to squad with. Without the free players, this game would be too empty and not much fun. As a partial cash shopper I still need to be able to raise some of my own cash in game and the manner in which the devs are trying to curb inflation makes this game impossible to play without being *just* a cash shopper.

TW is not the reason for all of the players' anger by itself, it is just that proverbial final straw. As a result of that update, I have not charged a single dollar to this game since then, when I was doing it once a week (and as a result have played *very* little as well since I'm short on coin without charging).

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to curb inflation then MAKE GOLD A SET PRICE. Don't let the market decide the price, set it yourselves. But stop trying to take away every possible way of making any money in this game or you will find that people who can't raise cash without zen will simply quit and where does that leave this game then?

omg i completely agree with you. this is the reason i do not play that much anymore. i really liked this game but its the same with all the free to play games the dev get greedy the players suffer and then there is no game left. b:angry i understand they need to make money but we need in game money too, i do not wanna spend thousands of dollars on a game.

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

With the new TW updates with TW slotting, small factions can no longer 3v1 the biggest faction. So now it's even easier for one faction to take the whole map cause all they need to do is 1v1 the 2nd 3rd 4th strongest factions instead of 3v1. Has nothing to do with coin.

I still haven't gotten a single response about why the TW slot bidding was changed too... and I probably won't get one either.

XKashiya - Dreamweaver · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

With the new TW updates with TW bidding, small factions can no longer 3v1 the biggest faction. So now it's even easier for one faction to take the whole map cause all they need to do is 1v1 the 2nd 3rd 4th strongest factions instead of 3v1. Has nothing to do with coin.

I still haven't gotten a single response about why the TW slot bidding was changed too... and I probably won't get one either.

rofl its a money sink we all know that so yes it has to do with coin they are trying to fix inflation. if they wanna fix it i think they should take out the packs

Theo - Raging Tide · August 2010

I understand now, if they want our money so badly why don't they just say it? They do not have to flame every update and make even more quit. PWI is not like it use to be, it was something I enjoyed playing and killing time. But after I had to spend rl money everything changed, packs came out and I was like "omg easy Lunar & frost, i no longer have to kill weekends farming". Now the constant anti-player updates. Imo, BoI is far better than pwi. You can actually play that game and enjoy it much like when pwi 1st came out however you never need to spend anything

pwi jajaja i quit, free 9x gold gear to random blue names!b:chuckle

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

XKashiya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

rofl its a money sink we all know that so yes it has to do with coin they are trying to fix inflation. if they wanna fix it i think they should take out the packs

My bad; I didn't mean TW bidding... I meant TW slotting. How can there be any challenge or competition at all when smaller factions can no longer triple attack large factions? My faction hasn't had a real TW in 3 months. No one attacks us anymore, no one shows up to our Attack TWs and no one TWs at all.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still haven't gotten a single response about why the TW slot bidding was changed too... and I probably won't get one either.

Big Factions often has the biggest cash shoppers. While they have to comply with the changes made by the Chinese devs, I guess the GMs here have some control over PWI. So to keep the game profitable, they'll want to upset the big cash shoppers less.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, -hint-

XKashiya - Dreamweaver · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

My bad; I didn't mean TW bidding... I meant TW slotting. How can there be any challenge or competition at all when smaller factions can no longer triple attack large factions? My faction hasn't had a real TW in 3 months. No one attacks us anymore, no one shows up to our Attack TWs and no one TWs at all.

yeah have you looked at DW map its basicly filled with one faction there is only 2 other factions on that map. other then that now that bidding has changed there is no way that smaller faction could even have the money to bid.

boogie your wrong they do not have that much control of what happens in the game it is not up to them to change something it is up to the dev's they can try and work something out with them or pled with them for change but the gm's is basicly the middle man. personally i dont think there was much wrong with the system tw had it was oki. i dont think it had anything to do with keeping the cash shoppers happy. i think it more had to do with they want money and more of it. the only way is to produce money sinks in the game limiting our in game gold and making us having to rely on buying gold to keep our heads in the game to have any chance at all. which is gonna **** alot of players off and they will lose alot of people who are not cash shoppers but they dont care as long as they get their money and they will due to the cash shoppers.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »

BUT we need those free players in here or we have no one to squad with. Without the free players, this game would be too empty and not much fun. As a partial cash shopper I still need to be able to raise some of my own cash in game and the manner in which the devs are trying to curb inflation makes this game impossible to play without being *just* a cash shopper.

I said this over a year ago. When people kept saying the free players are worthless and thereby have no right to say anything. The free players are what allows this game to work. The Cash Shoppers Need free players for two reasons; (1) The create a community thats inviting so people will want to player & have people to party with, and (2) Without free players, who are the cash shops going to sell their gold to, to actually make coin?

Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to curb inflation then MAKE GOLD A SET PRICE. Don't let the market decide the price, set it yourselves.

This i have to disagree with. Not because the principle isnt good. But the market will always determine the price. The Cash shop zen sellers will simply stop posting it at the AH when they know they can sell it for alot more over World Chat or in Catshop vending stalls as cash shop items. Unless you can cut off every system of transaction between players for cash shop goods, a price ceiling will just create an open 'black market' of cash shop items. And whats makes that worse, is using catshops & world chat for sales often leads to faster price escalations, as a price listing (such as the auction gold system) is what shows sellers their competition and the price they have to come down with to be able to sell.

Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »

But stop trying to take away every possible way of making any money in this game or you will find that people who can't raise cash without zen will simply quit and where does that leave this game then?

Free players quit. People are unable to farm coin in the game. Zen will still sell at this point to the merchanters, who open packs and systematically make money of those that dont. But soon the free players who dont merchant leave, and the merchanters lose their profit base. Suddenly they find they cant buy gold & they get bored and leave. Now noone is left to buy the gold at the auction house. Demand drops, but supply remains, and the price of gold finally comes down.... But guess what, the game had to lose most of its players to do this.

sethh · August 2010

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I said this over a year ago. When people kept saying the free players are worthless and thereby have no right to say anything. The free players are what allows this game to work. The Cash Shoppers Need free players for two reasons; (1) The create a community thats inviting so people will want to player & have people to party with, and (2) Without free players, who are the cash shops going to sell their gold to, to actually make coin?

This i have to disagree with. Not because the principle isnt good. But the market will always determine the price. The Cash shop zen sellers will simply stop posting it at the AH when they know they can sell it for alot more over World Chat or in Catshop vending stalls as cash shop items. Unless you can cut off every system of transaction between players for cash shop goods, a price ceiling will just create an open 'black market' of cash shop items. And whats makes that worse, is using catshops & world chat for sales often leads to faster price escalations, as a price listing (such as the auction gold system) is what shows sellers their competition and the price they have to come down with to be able to sell.

Free players quit. People are unable to farm coin in the game. Zen will still sell at this point to the merchanters, who open packs and systematically make money of those that dont. But soon the free players who dont merchant leave, and the merchanters lose their profit base. Suddenly they find they cant buy gold & they get bored and leave. Now noone is left to buy the gold at the auction house. Demand drops, but supply remains, and the price of gold finally comes down.... But guess what, the game had to lose most of its players to do this.

+ 10000 ... that's all

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

Update 2

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive

I hope that you, along with other GMs, can see that the player's report of the new TWs proves this point wrong.

XKashiya - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Originally Posted by frankieraye

Update 2

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive

this is such bullcrap. the amount of money sinks you put in this game plus you changed tt to make it alot harder to even make money in this game proves this statement wrong. there is no way any smaller factions would even have the chance to bid against the factions who already own land. how is this making it more competitive? this is just giving the bigger factions more chances to bid leaving out the smaller factions. on my server there is only 3 guilds that own land one owning 75% the 2nd owning 24% and the 3rd owning like 1%. the amount that the first guild is making weekly is just stupid. the second not doing that bad either. if you take all the money from the smaller guilds how the hell do you except them to even be-able to win a bid on one bid? so like i said how is this making it more competitive?

An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

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