[Discussion of Territory War Changes 8-5-10]
Comments
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Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »For those of you griping about this change have you actually looked at the bigger picture here?
TW generates 560 million coins per week per server. Over a 6 month period that is 130 billion (13,000,000,000) coins exxhanging hands. Is there a npc that sells charms or gold to remove these coins from the game never to been seen again?
TW a coin sink I don't think so. To the indiviual it may appear that way. But suppose half of that money goes to npc's for skills, ammo, gems, bh fees etc etc. That still leave 65 billion coins floating around the server. When you got to by your equipment it isn't from a npc it from another player or the AH and that 65 billion coins remains in the system and each week it was geting topped up by TW pay.
So when you blame the pack for the price hike. Where did those coins come from?
When I play the times i have seen high lever chars rushing around killing mobs and rarely bothering to pick up the coins. Some of you have become so rich from the TW pay that picking up 20-1000 coins from a mob drop is so beneath you its crazy.
When you moan about the prices and say its the packs thats putting the cost of gold. Pause and thinke where did those coins to pay for come from? Did PWI say right we sold x amount of packs today we better drop x millions of coins on the server to pay for these packs? No they did not
The coins used to pay fro these raise prices has come from TW pay which was pumping 560 million coins into server every week.
When you say but it costs me more to play tw than I get out of it. It may very well do but what pay you do get most of it ends up in the hands of other players. Unless you spend every coin you get at an npc which will remove the coins from the game totally.
TW pay will slowly but surely grow and grow and there will be more and more coins floating around in game driving the prices higher and higher.
So the next time you blame packs for the price hike. Ask yourself now did that coinage come from people doing hard grind or did it come from TW pay.
ALL of those you griping this is too much the game isnt worth playing now. Im betting not all but a lot of you TW'ers have enough coins to go out and purchase the next release of fashion or mount striaght away and dont have to grind to get it.
The coins from TW to an indivual may seem like a coin sink but as the figures show collectively they are drive the prices behind the packs. Its not grinding for coins that making coins its the 560 millions a week dump ito the economy and people hanging on to the coins.
Except you're forgetting the part when gold was 100K-125K on a stable basis, and that 560M (?) coin was pouring into the servers at that time too. As someone pointed out a HUGE source of coin on this game is from the tokens, and it FAR outweighs the TW coin spillage. The only difference is you have to cash shop for it...and guess what? It comes from those packs that we keep blaming the economy on!0 -
Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »For those of you griping about this change have you actually looked at the bigger picture here?
TW generates 560 million coins per week per server. Over a 6 month period that is 130 billion (13,000,000,000) coins exxhanging hands. Is there a npc that sells charms or gold to remove these coins from the game never to been seen again?
TW a coin sink I don't think so. To the indiviual it may appear that way. But suppose half of that money goes to npc's for skills, ammo, gems, bh fees etc etc. That still leave 65 billion coins floating around the server. When you got to by your equipment it isn't from a npc it from another player or the AH and that 65 billion coins remains in the system and each week it was geting topped up by TW pay.
So when you blame the pack for the price hike. Where did those coins come from?
When I play the times i have seen high lever chars rushing around killing mobs and rarely bothering to pick up the coins. Some of you have become so rich from the TW pay that picking up 20-1000 coins from a mob drop is so beneath you its crazy.
When you moan about the prices and say its the packs thats putting the cost of gold. Pause and thinke where did those coins to pay for come from? Did PWI say right we sold x amount of packs today we better drop x millions of coins on the server to pay for these packs? No they did not
The coins used to pay fro these raise prices has come from TW pay which was pumping 560 million coins into server every week.
When you say but it costs me more to play tw than I get out of it. It may very well do but what pay you do get most of it ends up in the hands of other players. Unless you spend every coin you get at an npc which will remove the coins from the game totally.
TW pay will slowly but surely grow and grow and there will be more and more coins floating around in game driving the prices higher and higher.
So the next time you blame packs for the price hike. Ask yourself now did that coinage come from people doing hard grind or did it come from TW pay.
ALL of those you griping this is too much the game isnt worth playing now. Im betting not all but a lot of you TW'ers have enough coins to go out and purchase the next release of fashion or mount striaght away and dont have to grind to get it.
The coins from TW to an indivual may seem like a coin sink but as the figures show collectively they are drive the prices behind the packs. Its not grinding for coins that making coins its the 560 millions a week dump ito the economy and people hanging on to the coins.
Spend 2 gold, create 10m from nothing -> Tokens of Best Luck - > From packs0 -
Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »Shortened for size
Ok then.... we should also remove trading 2 Tokens of Best Luck for 10 mil right? Because I have a feeling all that's pumping in more than 560 million in one week... >.>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
X_Diogenes_x - Sanctuary wrote: »Spend 2 gold, create 10m from nothing -> Tokens of Best Luck - > From packs
O_o'
Me suppose you must has an epic amount of luck.
b:shocked
Not even we can gather that much luck in one individual. Only way that be possible would be to know teh code itself. >.<'
b:shockeddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
My decision of quitting was right. The game is going downhill still faster and faster.b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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you know based on just the sheer volume of these posts you'd think the GMs would take the hint that what they did was bad for everyone including themselves seeing as this is just going to butcher PWI economy but the sad part about all this is that the GMs wont care about this and the mirages are here too stay... I know I for one will seriously think about quitting seeing as nobody is going to want too TW anymore and that eliminates one of the biggest things in the game for me...0
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Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »I WAS on your side for the exact reason you stated,
Good. That's what the thread should focus on
.Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »but pointing our the differences between cultures and insulting them are two different things. The Chinese are the way they are because of the government differences, as you said. There's no need to call them robbers, oppressors, or complacent. I hope you don't seriously think the American government doesn't have its own share of robbers, oppressors, and complacents.
I think what I said may have been misunderstood. I said that the Chinese culture is very complacent when getting robbed and oppressed (not that the chinese people are robbers and oppressors). And yes a big reason the culture developed that way is because of the Chinese government.0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »O_o'
Me suppose you must has an epic amount of luck.
b:shocked
Not even we can gather that much luck in one individual. Only way that be possible would be to know teh code itself. >.<'
b:shocked
xD
I've seen a fair share of system messages for the same person getting 2-3 ToBL one after the other0 -
Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »For those of you griping about this change have you actually looked at the bigger picture here?
TW generates 560 million coins per week per server. Over a 6 month period that is 130 billion (13,000,000,000) coins exxhanging hands. Is there a npc that sells charms or gold to remove these coins from the game never to been seen again?
TW a coin sink I don't think so. To the indiviual it may appear that way. But suppose half of that money goes to npc's for skills, ammo, gems, bh fees etc etc. That still leave 65 billion coins floating around the server. When you got to by your equipment it isn't from a npc it from another player or the AH and that 65 billion coins remains in the system and each week it was geting topped up by TW pay.
So when you blame the pack for the price hike. Where did those coins come from?
When I play the times i have seen high lever chars rushing around killing mobs and rarely bothering to pick up the coins. Some of you have become so rich from the TW pay that picking up 20-1000 coins from a mob drop is so beneath you its crazy.
When you moan about the prices and say its the packs thats putting the cost of gold. Pause and thinke where did those coins to pay for come from? Did PWI say right we sold x amount of packs today we better drop x millions of coins on the server to pay for these packs? No they did not
The coins used to pay fro these raise prices has come from TW pay which was pumping 560 million coins into server every week.
When you say but it costs me more to play tw than I get out of it. It may very well do but what pay you do get most of it ends up in the hands of other players. Unless you spend every coin you get at an npc which will remove the coins from the game totally.
TW pay will slowly but surely grow and grow and there will be more and more coins floating around in game driving the prices higher and higher.
So the next time you blame packs for the price hike. Ask yourself now did that coinage come from people doing hard grind or did it come from TW pay.
ALL of those you griping this is too much the game isnt worth playing now. Im betting not all but a lot of you TW'ers have enough coins to go out and purchase the next release of fashion or mount striaght away and dont have to grind to get it.
The coins from TW to an indivual may seem like a coin sink but as the figures show collectively they are drive the prices behind the packs. Its not grinding for coins that making coins its the 560 millions a week dump ito the economy and people hanging on to the coins.
I don't think anyone's saying that the economy doesn't need a balance.
The problem is that balancing the economy should NOT take priority over a player's fun.
Lemme put it this way...
Let's say PWI loaned and invested money in other MMO's. PWI took out such a huge loan from another MMO that it's now severely in debt to it. Does this mean that PWI should implement a tax on all drops, making it so that players only recieve 80% of the drops they do normally? No, because that would be frustrating and boring. No one would be able to upgrade their gear, no one would be able to teleport between towns, and many newcomers wouldn't be able to upgrade their skills.
Without the fun factor, no one would play. Without people playing, there'd be no one to PAY OFF that loan.
The update has made TW a complete expense. Players really have to pay for it and they get nothing in return. My server for instance, I would divide like this: Two top-tier guilds, one semi-pro guilds, and then a bunch of other guilds that can compete with each other but not with the three top tier ones. Under this new system, all "the rest" may not be able to afford to TW. So what do they do? They stop doing it and simply focus on their gear OR they quit. That's boring. The other three remain, but have less motivation to expand. They might farm extra mats to keep doing it for a while, but after a while they'll decide it's just not worth it. It also might happen that one of the three guilds is shown to be the alpha-male, and then the other two will almost NEVER attempt to attack them. They TW less now, too. That too, is boring. The result is that people get bored and just stop doing TW altogether.
Considering that the only options that exist end-game are:
1) Territory war
2) PK
Then yeah, that sucks. This'll just make people quit the game, which could crash PWI.
So for the fourth time, as I've said, making the game fun is top priority. The mistake here is that they've put a balanced economy above the fun factor, forcing people to first work and earn money via farming before having any fun.I
AGOREY0 -
those 560m coins per week was for ppl buy charms from others players those players bought gold and sold for ingame coins.
with now mirages instead of coins less ppl will buy charms = less ppl will buy gold for charms.
u not getting any profit ijs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Cant pwi set drops rates back to normal now?
Bc its hard to make coins in this game, and if all factions that have territories going to get 1000s of mirages. Mirages price going to fall.
And to give a high lvl faction armors for their territories cant be worth the effort to have a territory.
And why have u change the font in pwi??
Its looks horrible
, i run my game in window mode, and its not nice, 0 -
crunchycat wrote: »Good. That's what the thread should focus on.
I think what I said may have been misunderstood. I said that the Chinese culture is very complacent when getting robbed and oppressed (not that the chinese people are robbers and oppressors). And yes a big reason the culture developed that way is because of the Chinese government.
Alright, I'll accept that. Back to bashing the update *shifty look*
And lol @ a bunch of people singling out the tokens as a bigger contributor to coin base than TW pay at the same time replying to the same post.0 -
Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »Reduced for size
Spoken like a man who doesn't know the cost of TW! Congratulations.
You realise two tokens of best luck inject 10 million coins into the game instantly, right? And that technically, each of these tokens is only one gold, right?
The money from TW pay generally goes towards the TWs of the future, with not all that much left over to be used for mounts or fashion or whatever you accused people of buying. Please, if you're going to look at the bigger picture, do it properly and include the cost of TW.
It's all very well comparing the money at the end, but when you don't compare the money that goes towards those TWs you miss out a huge chunk of the argument. You'd look more respectable (and maybe realise why TW didn't inject all THAT much coin into the game and certainly didn't cause the gold price to hike up so drastically)
The amount of best luck tokens this game has seen since the first release of anniversary packs is far, far outweighing the amount of coin TW is injecting into the economy. By. Far. Seriously, stop and do the math.
If two tokens of best luck are 10 million, twenty are 100 million. In the past week, I haven't been online all that much, but I have easily seen a good sixty tokens of best luck won. That means I have seen 300 million coins injected into the economy this week alone and this doesn't include the tokens won while I'm not online and can't see.
And you're seriously trying to tell us one year of TW is producing more coin then one year of best luck tokens? Get out.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I remember once when u guys nerfed the amount of descomposing gear for mirages a while back because of botters or w.e. who got zillions of mirages per day.
and now u practically giving away 3k or more mirages per week?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
when gold was 100k how many level 100's where there needing to level there manufacturing skills there own skills there was a place for the coins to disappear off the server for good? Now there is far more high levels not needing to level these skills..
do the maths first month 65 billions coins to go round. 2 month 130 billion coins to go round 3 month 195 billions coins to go round. over the months there is a gradual build up of coins.0 -
if they sold guardian/spirit charms @ npc, it would take a LOT of coin out of the game.
but nooooooooo lets try to wreck what works instead.
/endrage0 -
PWI wont admit that the tokens is causing the inflation CUZ THEY ARE GREEDY SONS OF BI TCHES0
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Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »when gold was 100k how many level 100's where there needing to level there manufacturing skills there own skills there was a place for the coins to disappear off the server for good? Now there is far more high levels not needing to level these skills..
do the maths first month 65 billions coins to go round. 2 month 130 billion coins to go round 3 month 195 billions coins to go round. over the months there is a gradual build up of coins.
Did you see massive inflation during the era before packs? Look at the new servers. First day it opens. Bam, gold 400k. Oh look, those are lowbies too.
Did you see gold prices inflate right after the first batch of anniversary packs?
Do you see a correlation here?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »when gold was 100k how many level 100's where there needing to level there manufacturing skills there own skills there was a place for the coins to disappear off the server for good? Now there is far more high levels not needing to level these skills..
do the maths first month 65 billions coins to go round. 2 month 130 billion coins to go round 3 month 195 billions coins to go round. over the months there is a gradual build up of coins.
Did you just miss my entire post?
Before you start telling people to do the maths, read the posts where people have already done the maths and did them better then you. Like for example, the COST of TW in comparison to the pay.
Like, for example, the amount of money the Best Luck tokens inject into the economy, which FAR OUTWEIGHS what TW is injecting into it.
Learn to read.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Wandera - Heavens Tear wrote: »when gold was 100k how many level 100's where there needing to level there manufacturing skills there own skills there was a place for the coins to disappear off the server for good? Now there is far more high levels not needing to level these skills..
do the maths first month 65 billions coins to go round. 2 month 130 billion coins to go round 3 month 195 billions coins to go round. over the months there is a gradual build up of coins.
Did you ignore all the posts that pointed out how much coin TOKENS are injecting into the game?
Also did you not realize that most of that coin leaking out of TW lands goes right back into it in the form of charms, pots, etc.? Especially on PVE servers where the PvP population is not that high, MILLIONS of coin are spent on charms and pots PER WEEK compared to what we normally would need. We don't use TW pay to live an extravagant life, we used the pay so TW can pay for itself.
But I digress a little. Some of us don't TW for pay, and as a DD I can pretty much cover my own costs regardless, but removing the coin reward is not exactly encouragement for smaller guilds to bid on us for fun, is it?0 -
-PWI board meeting_
Ok guys we have to implement mirages for TW, cuz china is doin that and were to dumb to make any changes to wat they give us...we need a reason for this, i need a gud bs excuse
wat came after is wat kant and franki came up with0 -
DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »I remember once when u guys nerfed the amount of descomposing gear for mirages a while back because of botters or w.e. who got zillions of mirages per day.
and now u practically giving away 3k or more mirages per week?
This ^
When will PWI learn that your BS excuses for changes just aggravates people more. The real reason for this change and practically ALL changes is to make people spend more gold.0 -
I lol at the multi-responses to Wandera's post.0
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i have a question....of those 3k employees is there a bull sh it excuse department?0
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Some cutie gave me url to another game, one of my better friends is already pretty sure of leaving... Yeah, awsum patch, there is like no person who likes it. And I was actually on to do only 1 fc & MQ and god there was QQ, ppl quitting, etc.Trolling Sid since So Hot
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Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Yes and tell me this: have you ever been to China? Hell, have you ever been outside of the US?
Yes and Yes.Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »A cultural difference would be, for example, Russia's dramatic boundary between how men should act and how women should act. A cultural difference would be how Germans are generally less tolerant of failure than other countries. A cultural difference would be how swear words in America are really no big deal, whereas they're quite powerful in many eastern cultures.
A culture is an integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, behavior, shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group. Within that framework, there are numerous ways that cultures can be different.Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »What you're suggesting is that if you push a Chinese guy down, he'll lay there and say "well, I guess I'll just have to deal with this." WTF are you out of your mind?? If that were true then China would never be able to develop such a strong economy. No, EVERYONE gets ticked off if you push them down. What you're talking about are imaginary cultural differences that your own head has invented; they aren't realistic at all.
You were close but not quite there. What I am saying is that if a powerful authority figure pushes a Chinese guy down then he will be pissed off and will say "well, I guess I'll just have to deal with this". The reason is because if he takes action then he may be punished or killed (just like the Government massacre of Chinese protesters 1989 -Tiananmen Square-).Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »So yeah, have you ever been to China? Have you ever even left the US?
Yes and Yes (again).Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Cause honestly, from the sounds of your posts you've been watching too many patriotic news stories where America tells you itself that it's the greatest country in the world. Cause yeah, if I tell you I'm the greatest person in the world, then obviously I'm a trustworthy source, right?
I think you're missing point so I'll paraphrase it another way. PWI just made a move on U.S. servers that is **** players. PWI always rolls out the Change in China before the U.S. and they obviously got away with it. Pointing out the cultural differences involved shows how this probably came about; however, that's really not the important issue is it? The change is here. It's really really bad and it shows a strong intent of the company to **** it's players over. So the question becomes. What are you going to do about it?0 -
crunchycat wrote: »You were close but not quite there. What I am saying is that if a powerful authority figure pushes a Chinese guy down then he will be pissed off and will say "well, I guess I'll just have to deal with this". The reason is because if he takes action then he may be punished or killed (just like the Government massacre of Chinese protesters 1989 -Tiananmen Square-).
This cultural difference is very true. In China decisions made by authority are much more likely to be blindly accepted. http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_china.shtml Check the PDI.0 -
Almost everything new that has been introduced or has been updated in this game I have been against. However, this change in TW has left me at a loss for words. Shockingly, I am for this change. I hope it does reduce the price of gold.0
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wat pwe employees need to do
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crunchycat wrote: »Hey, if you agree with PWI f-ing people then be my guest and bend over for them ;3.Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Spoken like a man who doesn't know the cost of TW! Congratulations.
You realise two tokens of best luck inject 10 million coins into the game instantly, right? And that technically, each of these tokens is only one gold, right?
The money from TW pay generally goes towards the TWs of the future, with not all that much left over to be used for mounts or fashion or whatever you accused people of buying. Please, if you're going to look at the bigger picture, do it properly and include the cost of TW.
It's all very well comparing the money at the end, but when you don't compare the money that goes towards those TWs you miss out a huge chunk of the argument. You'd look more respectable (and maybe realise why TW didn't inject all THAT much coin into the game and certainly didn't cause the gold price to hike up so drastically)
The amount of best luck tokens this game has seen since the first release of anniversary packs is far, far outweighing the amount of coin TW is injecting into the economy. By. Far. Seriously, stop and do the math.
If two tokens of best luck are 10 million, twenty are 100 million. In the past week, I haven't been online all that much, but I have easily seen a good sixty tokens of best luck won. That means I have seen 300 million coins injected into the economy this week alone and this doesn't include the tokens won while I'm not online and can't see.
And you're seriously trying to tell us one year of TW is producing more coin then one year of best luck tokens? Get out.
Ooh so every time PWI sell a pack they automatically inject the inflated coin price in coins yes?? For every 2 tokens of best luck they sell the secretly inject into peoples coin account 10 million coins.
Where to the coins come from? Did you read my entire post? PWI does not drop coins onto the server for people to come across. They do not say ooh look well sold 10000 packs today so we better drop 10000 pack inflated prices in coins on the server so people can by them.
Where do these inflated coins come from they do not just appear in someones bank account so they can go buy the packs.
Or is that what you saying? That PWI suddenly injects in game coins into peoples accounts so they can buy the packs......
No since day one TW pay across the board as slowly but surely been building so when there is a new release like packs people had accumulated the coins form TW and they where willing to pay the price
I do not know the figures of how much of coinage from TW pay is going off the server. I do know that 47 territories produces a minimum of 560 million coins per week onto the server
If after 1 week 500 million of those coins remain on the server and have not disappeared of the server through the likes of npc purchases and bh fee then week 2 there will be 100 million coins floating around the server swopping hands
If 500 million coins remain on the server each week from TW after 1 year there would be 26000,000,000 coins on the server.
How long did TW run before the tokens where released?
Where do these coins come form it is not from TW pay out. Are you suggesting that PWI are sceretly funding the buys behind your back?0
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