Work For it or Dont Worry about it

Sabra - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I say to the small factions... keep up the hard work... you will get there. My idea was merely a way to speed the process along. To those in Calamity that think you "don't consider a gank a true win. If you can face Calamity's full force and win, great job. But ganking earns you no honor". My words to you are "Get over yourself".

While I do agree that it is sad to see that honor card played, I can't help but have some sympathy for them, I know I for one sure would be discouraged/upset if it seemed like the odds were HIGHLY NOT in our favor, it does go a lot further for not only the ego/fun factor, if we all know we gave it all.

Though I do agree that a win is still a win, no matter how one may come to gain a land, if it wasn't gotten by an ACTUAL CHEAT (I.E Crystal taking no damage once soever) then yes get over it, congratulate them, and take it back next week/the week after.

It is a lot more... savory when everyone knows/feels they gave it there all to defend, and lose... or in cala's case mostly successfully win... then to lose often due to multiple ganks. (besides they too have charm costs to worry about, etc. Though I have a feeling that isn't exactly what you meant, sabra. )

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

While I do agree that it is sad to see that honor card played, I can't help but have some sympathy for them, I know I for one sure would be discouraged/upset if it seemed like the odds were HIGHLY NOT in our favor, I meant that if I was in a situation similar to that of cala's and being attacked from all sides, I think I too would be real pessimistic about the outcome and whine just as they are/were) it does go a lot further for not only the ego/fun factor, if we all know we gave it all.Here, I think I meant that if cala lost to someone one on one, they are all far less likely to complain about a loss, as in well not blame it on 'fail' reasons like a "gank" instead I believe a lot of them would be able to fathom it a bit better if they lost one on one.

Though I do agree that a win is still a win, no matter how one may come to gain a land, if it wasn't gotten by an ACTUAL CHEAT (I.E Crystal taking no damage once soever) then yes get over it, congratulate them, and take it back next week/the week after.

It is a lot more... savory when everyone knows/feels they gave it there all to defend, and lose... or in cala's case mostly successfully win... then to lose often due to multiple ganks. (besides they too as in cala, not eq, cala has had a lot more defenses then eq has ever thought of... though that doesn't mean eq isnt capable of holding of multiple attacks, nor that they don't have expenses of there own, I am sure they both have some pretty bad expenses coming out for tw, and to add in the mix of multiple attacks... makes me think of how much harder cala has it compared to others, so as you or soemone else said that cash they get does help offset there (cala) tw expenses) have charm costs to worry about, etc. Though I have a feeling that isn't exactly what you meant, sabra. )

Luls I am quoting myself... ;p

Tried to make myself more clear where I thought I needed to be, and if you already understood it, then please forgive me for reexplaining it.

Hoped that cleared it up a bit.

Thank you for the lesson Decus. Its always nice to run in to someone that will take a moment to teach.

All your land are belong to us.

I took the time to read this thread in its entirety. As I've been a long-time Equinoxian, I hope my words are not automatically discredited or skipped over, for fear of bias.

Sabra has some interesting ideas, and I would love to see them come to fruition. It is not enough to simply gank Calamity, as Calamity will be the first to simply take it back the next week. A faction must also be strong enough to defend and hold the land.

When people attach notions of virtuous or noble, they do themselves a huge disservice. This is a game, after all, with predefined rules of engagement. What one individual or faction considers right or wrong is patently daft. If the game had intended a sense of moral code of conduct, it would have been implemented already.

Calamity has its lands through hard work and perseverance. Though many of the original creators of the red giant have moved on, the faction can still coast on the fact that they do own a lot of land, and in a very real sense, has more financial backing than a faction without it. Also, a land owning faction has proved to the server that they can join together and organize war on their behalf. Many join Calamity because they feel there is an established precedence for winning, and by extension, they too could participate in epic battles and be great, too. In a sense, the fact that they have land and have won wars is a rallying factor that has surely been beneficial to their continued success.

Equinox has also had its ups and downs. We at one point had about a quarter of the map, defended our lands, and then were reduced to no lands. Now, we're one of three factions left standing on the map.

Depending on TW attendance, it is now a reality that EQ and Calamity are standing toe-to-toe. Neither of us knows which way the scales will be tipped in the near future, which is OK for the rest of the server.

I personally hope that the new TW system is implemented as soon as possible. It will allow more people to be on the map-- a true multi-colored map-- not one that is set up as a charity or by means of long, extended maneuvering. Part of the reason I feel this way (a feeling I happen to share with my fellow faction mates) is that it makes our server more interesting. Part of the whole appeal about going to a new server is that you can stake out your claim as something of your own. Dreamweaver has long lost this feeling because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer; those who are on the top will in a very sense, always will be, so there is this incredible notion of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" which is unfortunate. I can fully understand why someone wouldn't want to join our server because of the one-sidedness that has for so long dominated our server.

If the new system is implemented, it will do a few very drastic things. First, it will decrease the appeal of joining a large faction for the purposes of gaining a coin contribution. You'll get mirages, which NPC for a value of 10k. Based on the estimates that are coming out, the payout per land will be drastically less than the current system. Those who are in Calamity only for the coin, may soon find reasons to go elsewhere for, you know, whatever reasons they come up with and give to Cala officers. The draw to join for financial gain will be decreased, but not entirely gone.

The new built-in ganking system is proof that the game was designed in such a way where ganks are to be utilized; it also undercuts alt factions because there is no monetary compensation for winning a TW bid, so "splitting up ganks" will be a thing of the past.

We don't know how the new system will change the face of our weekend entertainment, but it will make things fair while simultaneously giving established factions the chance to hold on to their wealth.

Tl;dr: The new TW system will likely address many of our server problems for end-game competition, but the onus is still on others' to band together and coordinate TWs against established power(s).

I need to read more on forums. I have heard that there is something going on with a new TW system but is it just the pay or is there more? When I mention people staying for pay, I don't just mean the immediate pay they get. Being in Calamity is like working for a big corporation and there are added benefits that are like the "benefit package" an the value of those things needs to also be taken into consderation.

When I left Calamity, the first think that really stood out was that I couldn't teleport everywhere anymore. Yeah the teleport is a once an hour thing so you can't just constantly pop all over the map but with planning... wow that saved a lot of time and money. When you save the time... well you know the saying, time is money. And when you save the money-well you save the money. I almost sat down once to try to figure out how much money I had saved by having that benefit. I think it was more for me bc I was called a lot to go rez someone or heal for a boss but stilll... for many people, HUGE perk.

Apo-sometimes that one isnt figured in but having access to rare apo that no one else is supposed to be able to have access-again big bonus with huge value even if it isn't monetary.

Top all of this off with many high levels where it becomes much easier to get BH, nirvana or anything else you want done... lots of benefits that actually have a lot of value added on to the TW pay. (sure they have to look outside of faction too for some things, but not quite as often).

These are the the things that I meant when i talk about people staying for the pay... pay plus benefits. Probably these will remain huge bonuses for them.

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the rich get richer and the poor get poorer; those who are on the top will in a very sense, always will be,

I apologize for the fragmentation, but this series of of words is so true, its sickening. The only way those on top will ever be removed: Are when they tire out and leave on their own, or when they start to turn on one another and devour themselves.

Both are happening.

However there will always be someone whom wishes to rule the land, and shall.

Ana<3

If EQ owns 1 half of the map, who owns the other half? Calamity. How does that help to create a rainbow map? Smaller factions, even at this stage, would have no chance of winning 1 vs 1 against either EQ, or Cala.

"I will abandon EQ and help fight the good fight against EQ."

The good fight? In order to fight a good fight you have to fight against someone evil. Are the dominant factions somehow evil?

Aside that, it's not the smaller factions fault if their TW only lasts for 7 minutes. We are all trying the best we can. Right now there is practically no other faction which smaller factions can practice TW against than Cala and EQ, but yet you say that people shouldn't do that? What do you suggest we do then? How do you suggest that we teach all the new people what TW is even about? Because we do get people in that have NEVER been in a TW before on a constant basis.

You want us to just "teach them"? That will never work the same as getting to see the place for yourself. In the end it's up to EQ and Cala to allow the smaller factions some time to practice.

I don't know if you can have this multi color faction controlled territories. All you have to do is look back to this servers beginning. Everyone was jumping out getting land then it all became land locked by other factions. Now give or take hidden alliances that may be. There will be agreements with the given factions but some day one will gank out the other faction. Just like back then with EQ and ARMA vs CAL but that

yeah i got cut off b:sad I blame work b:laugh

I was going to just say things always plan out to be in the factions benefit. But from the short tw's to todays long 3 hour tw. I would say its way more fun now but its taxing on both sides. The side that wins will depend on the way the faction runs within.

I have been away from PWI but from the first time EQ attacked Cal and what they are now its a bit different maybe due to some new leadership. I don't know but the one thing that turns is once your on top no matter how things play out you will always be that faction everyone will want to top.

I want to see what will happen to EQ once they are get multiple wars on the same day by some challenging factions. b:pleased Its all fun competition until people decide to take it to a personal level which is never good. I've seen my share of drama from a marshal point of view. I would say the hardest thing in a faction is how you reinvent it by incorporating new people to it.

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The truth of the matter is this:

Equinox has attempted to fight off Calamity nearly single-handed for much of the last 5+ months. There are other factions out there who are capable of attacking Calamity but have not because they have feared retribution. Equinox' call to arms against the dominant land-owner have gone largely unheard. When there are no little lands for which strong factions can quibble over, alliances will be forced and Calamity will have difficulty.

For those who are current land owners or those who have held land and not attacked Calamity out of fear, your time of cowardice is nearing its end. Calamity is going to be every one's problem very soon, but first your problem may very well be Equinox. The taste of defeat is always the most bitter at first; Equinox comes battle-hardened and well trained. May each bring their best to the fight, and in the event your faction loses, know that it is not to your opponent you are losing to, but to your long history of inaction. The red map is testament to this.

There you go Sabra.

I would just hit the quote button inside of the original post and copy and past on to this thread ^.^

This particular post has been quoted before, even with-in my limited experience on these forums, I have seen it. lol.


It truly does showcase Equinox's true demeanor. Which is fine, I just find it rather amusing (though galling as hell in the beginning) that EQ has convinced the server (or at least fanned the flames significantly) that Calamity are evil and greedy blah blah blah. when in fact Calamity acted as a kind of mentor (I use the term loosely) to set the standard of game play for the server.

Calamity were a bunch of hardcore gamers that played to win, and their leadership had the fore-sight that staying power meant being tolerable (to the rest of the server) at the very least. Hence your Boss days, FB drop/TT splitting procedures etc that with early cala showed the server how to play nice with one another. Respectful World chatting and/or simply not acknowledging World chat at all was a huge corner stone of that as well. PK was a touchy subject but with guilds like bloodpact it was easy to shine against their muck.

Cala took their land with grace in the beginning and that beginning was 3/4 of the map. TW is the life blood of Calamity. The 'fight' is in their blood, and in that fight Cala has always held the position that yes, they were better than their 'enemy' because they played 'fair' and didn't discriminate against the other guild in WC/squadding etc. Self Righteous motivation, is their greatest strength....give an army self righteous motivation...then each of them feel like they are fighting a personal battle in TW and yet working as a whole towards a common goal....that was the machine.

However you cannot have the light without the dark. Equinox were Calamity's dark....the force they fought against......after all Calamity was golden

I speak in past tense as I do not believe for a second that Calamity has had these great qualities since December...perhaps longer, despite some of their members best efforts.

Now Equinox tried to shove this BS down every one's throat that they (Equinox) were the true 'Golden faction' fighting the good fight and such.....Equinox never did anything for the server. They tricked Guilds into aligning with them to gain members, and land when they were forced to relocate. After all...Equinox was built on mergers....and old EQ knows that...they know their original strength comes from consuming past factions.

Unfortunately, if you abuse your guard dog per se, it will get very pissed off. Calamity was running EQ off the map, very very effectively. did EQ deserve it? were they 'evil and bad'? not really, but they were Calamity's Leadership's target, they broke thier mutual truce to divide the map equally...oh yes Cala and EQ .......from 1k to Dreamweaver Port..a perfectly diagonal cut ...it had never been done..EQ and Cala thought they could do it....however...Cala was stronger..much stronger than EQ...and my theory is EQ got scared an like a small dog with small dog syndrome, tried to take a bite out of Cala....they have paid the price ever since.

Calamity is no longer the gentle giant they were...The propaganda led by EQ and the general abuse random Calamity members get now...has turned many of them..just bitter as hell. Cala is sick of being "the good guy" tired of being told what they can and can't do, tired of being forced to do nothing when the abuse showers in World Chat..they want to fight back...and they want to do it in a very vicious manner. That's war.

Equinox has set themselves up well, and will be a nice counter balance for Calamity at this time. I don't believe either guild can survive without the other. As for other guilds? good luck...but you will be used in some way or another....Dynasty is a perfect example of what not to do..do not make an alliance with either Calamity or EQ not a true one at least....in the end they don't need you...you need them (kind of)

you (The smaller factions) will need to band together and make a new 'super power' however it is pretty far fetched
and I feel certain neither EQ or Calamity expect it to ever happen.

until then enjoy the show, because you will always be a spectator, never a player.

Ana<3

EDIT: Post was, once again, swallowed >.<

Sorry about the double post there, mea culpa :<

Sabra - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Calling people cowards... threats of retribution and farming others... This was what I was referring to when I mentioned you all trying to rally others. It hasn't been done in a pleasant or respectful way. (illyana you werent the only one doing it... several EQ, Ajay/Buttsekks included) That is who you were and that is how you played. Maybe actions speak louder than words... but damn some of those words were rough and tend to be remembered.

Personally, I like how that still hasn't been addressed, even after Shadowfire quoted it several times in another post and directed questions to both Ajay and Illyana. But hey? Equinox isn't the bad one here, right? Yea, must be right... b:puzzled

/sarcasm

PenutButer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stop making long posts <

couldnt had said it better myself nutster @_@ its so confusin