Work For it or Dont Worry about it

Sabra - Dreamweaver

I took a day or so to respond to some of this because I was sort of surprised and the tone of the response I am addressing this to. I sure expected to hear, oh it can't work, or Cala needs to give land away or that the server is broken.

I dont know how to do the fancy quotes but i wish i did. When you say "you gankers" and tell people to get over themselves... wow. Calamities goal from the start has been to win. As I said before, they had a goal, focused on and and now... you get to have fun with it. Not all factions are that focused on winning. Many want to play and have fun and even knowing they wont win, they are out there trying. Instead of looking at that in a negative way, you could look at their persistance and try to respect it.


I remember something BaldwinBoy said... I think it was last November or around there. People in Calamity were whining about being ganked and he said... you all need to stop with all the gank talk. They are attacking us not ganking us. There arent that many people to attack. This isnt word for word what he said... but close. BB and i have areas we disagree on but when he said that, I was impressed.

I say to the small factions... keep up the hard work... you will get there. My idea was merely a way to speed the process along. To those in Calamity that think you "don't consider a gank a true win. If you can face Calamity's full force and win, great job. But ganking earns you no honor". My words to you are "Get over yourself".

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Sabra - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I say to the small factions... keep up the hard work... you will get there. My idea was merely a way to speed the process along. To those in Calamity that think you "don't consider a gank a true win. If you can face Calamity's full force and win, great job. But ganking earns you no honor". My words to you are "Get over yourself".

While I do agree that it is sad to see that honor card played, I can't help but have some sympathy for them, I know I for one sure would be discouraged/upset if it seemed like the odds were HIGHLY NOT in our favor, it does go a lot further for not only the ego/fun factor, if we all know we gave it all.

Though I do agree that a win is still a win, no matter how one may come to gain a land, if it wasn't gotten by an ACTUAL CHEAT (I.E Crystal taking no damage once soever) then yes get over it, congratulate them, and take it back next week/the week after.

It is a lot more... savory when everyone knows/feels they gave it there all to defend, and lose... or in cala's case mostly successfully win... then to lose often due to multiple ganks. (besides they too have charm costs to worry about, etc. Though I have a feeling that isn't exactly what you meant, sabra. )

Sabra - Dreamweaver

I'm sorry Silaf, I didn't understand what you were saying.
I'm not sure if it seems like I am taking sides here... the truth is that i stand in many camps and I sort of root for everyone. I helped in Cala for a long time so I understand the frustration of it seeming like others on the server thinking its all easy. I understand EQ... boy if anyone can has a right to talk about charm cost, those guys do. They fight toe to toe with Calamity each week and while Calamity may not be getting as rich as everyone thinks... At least they do have income coming in to cover their charm costs. EQ goes back week after week... using the same amount of charms I'm sure, that cala does-But not having the luxury of the income. Maybe that is starting to come in now, idk... but EQ sucks it up, earns the money and goes back for more each week. The smaller factions... now they don't have the costs like that... their tw doesn't last long enough yet for that to be a factor usually.

For newer factions or slower growing ones than calamity... call it a gank, call it smart strategy... call it a bunch of mongrels nipping at the Big Dogs heals. It takes heart to keep loosing, keep being mocked and to keep coming back. Today I was the voice for the little guys. Tomorrow, who knows.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

While I do agree that it is sad to see that honor card played, I can't help but have some sympathy for them, I know I for one sure would be discouraged/upset if it seemed like the odds were HIGHLY NOT in our favor, I meant that if I was in a situation similar to that of cala's and being attacked from all sides, I think I too would be real pessimistic about the outcome and whine just as they are/were) it does go a lot further for not only the ego/fun factor, if we all know we gave it all.Here, I think I meant that if cala lost to someone one on one, they are all far less likely to complain about a loss, as in well not blame it on 'fail' reasons like a "gank" instead I believe a lot of them would be able to fathom it a bit better if they lost one on one.

Though I do agree that a win is still a win, no matter how one may come to gain a land, if it wasn't gotten by an ACTUAL CHEAT (I.E Crystal taking no damage once soever) then yes get over it, congratulate them, and take it back next week/the week after.

It is a lot more... savory when everyone knows/feels they gave it there all to defend, and lose... or in cala's case mostly successfully win... then to lose often due to multiple ganks. (besides they too as in cala, not eq, cala has had a lot more defenses then eq has ever thought of... though that doesn't mean eq isnt capable of holding of multiple attacks, nor that they don't have expenses of there own, I am sure they both have some pretty bad expenses coming out for tw, and to add in the mix of multiple attacks... makes me think of how much harder cala has it compared to others, so as you or soemone else said that cash they get does help offset there (cala) tw expenses) have charm costs to worry about, etc. Though I have a feeling that isn't exactly what you meant, sabra. )

Luls I am quoting myself... ;p

Tried to make myself more clear where I thought I needed to be, and if you already understood it, then please forgive me for reexplaining it.

Hoped that cleared it up a bit.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Sabra - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I took a day or so to respond to some of this because I was sort of surprised and the tone of the response I am addressing this to. I sure expected to hear, oh it can't work, or Cala needs to give land away or that the server is broken.

I dont know how to do the fancy quotes but i wish i did. When you say "you gankers" and tell people to get over themselves... wow. Calamities goal from the start has been to win. As I said before, they had a goal, focused on and and now... you get to have fun with it. Not all factions are that focused on winning. Many want to play and have fun and even knowing they wont win, they are out there trying. Instead of looking at that in a negative way, you could look at their persistance and try to respect it.


I remember something BaldwinBoy said... I think it was last November or around there. People in Calamity were whining about being ganked and he said... you all need to stop with all the gank talk. They are attacking us not ganking us. There arent that many people to attack. This isnt word for word what he said... but close. BB and i have areas we disagree on but when he said that, I was impressed.

I say to the small factions... keep up the hard work... you will get there. My idea was merely a way to speed the process along. To those in Calamity that think you "don't consider a gank a true win. If you can face Calamity's full force and win, great job. But ganking earns you no honor". My words to you are "Get over yourself".

Sabra, I can't agree with you more. Your response is exactly what people do not seem to realize.

FYI: To quote a single post, just hit the "Quote" button above the post wherefrom you wish to quote. You can then edit it in the reply box that opens up. Multiple quotes are more complicated, just hit the "Multi-off" button above which ones you'd like to quote and then hit Reply, they should all show up. I think that's how it's done, anyway. I don't multi-quote often.

Sabra - Dreamweaver

Thank you for the lesson Decus. Its always nice to run in to someone that will take a moment to teach.

Loarvion - Dreamweaver

I LIKE PIE b:chuckle b:bye

nice to c u r still playing sabra and hai ursa xD

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver

All your land are belong to us.

scshop

WillowGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was in no way preaching anything here, only stating that people need to get off this whole stupid idea that everyone who's in Calamity is only here for the money. Yes, I joined Calamity because I enjoy TW, and having the TW pay to cover my TW costs is highly beneficial - without it, I would be unable to TW because I do not cash shop and would be unable to afford the charms alone needed to participate in TW.

"The truth will come to light" - The Merchant of Venice, Act 2, Scene 2

Illyana - Dreamweaver

I took the time to read this thread in its entirety. As I've been a long-time Equinoxian, I hope my words are not automatically discredited or skipped over, for fear of bias.

Sabra has some interesting ideas, and I would love to see them come to fruition. It is not enough to simply gank Calamity, as Calamity will be the first to simply take it back the next week. A faction must also be strong enough to defend and hold the land.

When people attach notions of virtuous or noble, they do themselves a huge disservice. This is a game, after all, with predefined rules of engagement. What one individual or faction considers right or wrong is patently daft. If the game had intended a sense of moral code of conduct, it would have been implemented already.

Calamity has its lands through hard work and perseverance. Though many of the original creators of the red giant have moved on, the faction can still coast on the fact that they do own a lot of land, and in a very real sense, has more financial backing than a faction without it. Also, a land owning faction has proved to the server that they can join together and organize war on their behalf. Many join Calamity because they feel there is an established precedence for winning, and by extension, they too could participate in epic battles and be great, too. In a sense, the fact that they have land and have won wars is a rallying factor that has surely been beneficial to their continued success.

Equinox has also had its ups and downs. We at one point had about a quarter of the map, defended our lands, and then were reduced to no lands. Now, we're one of three factions left standing on the map.

Depending on TW attendance, it is now a reality that EQ and Calamity are standing toe-to-toe. Neither of us knows which way the scales will be tipped in the near future, which is OK for the rest of the server.

I personally hope that the new TW system is implemented as soon as possible. It will allow more people to be on the map-- a true multi-colored map-- not one that is set up as a charity or by means of long, extended maneuvering. Part of the reason I feel this way (a feeling I happen to share with my fellow faction mates) is that it makes our server more interesting. Part of the whole appeal about going to a new server is that you can stake out your claim as something of your own. Dreamweaver has long lost this feeling because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer; those who are on the top will in a very sense, always will be, so there is this incredible notion of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" which is unfortunate. I can fully understand why someone wouldn't want to join our server because of the one-sidedness that has for so long dominated our server.

If the new system is implemented, it will do a few very drastic things. First, it will decrease the appeal of joining a large faction for the purposes of gaining a coin contribution. You'll get mirages, which NPC for a value of 10k. Based on the estimates that are coming out, the payout per land will be drastically less than the current system. Those who are in Calamity only for the coin, may soon find reasons to go elsewhere for, you know, whatever reasons they come up with and give to Cala officers. The draw to join for financial gain will be decreased, but not entirely gone.

The new built-in ganking system is proof that the game was designed in such a way where ganks are to be utilized; it also undercuts alt factions because there is no monetary compensation for winning a TW bid, so "splitting up ganks" will be a thing of the past.

We don't know how the new system will change the face of our weekend entertainment, but it will make things fair while simultaneously giving established factions the chance to hold on to their wealth.

Tl;dr: The new TW system will likely address many of our server problems for end-game competition, but the onus is still on others' to band together and coordinate TWs against established power(s).

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

The problem with taking lands even with the new system is needing to hold them. We don't know how all the changes will really work yet, some of them i don't care about (i don't get coins from tw, oh well, won't kill me.) A major assumption people seem to be making, though, is that more coordinated attacks (3 in 1 time section or w/e, not sure how it will work) necessarily means more factions gaining land.
However, if the new bidding works "all bid on the 8pm server time hour, then it can end up being faction a, faction b, eq (listed earliest war to last starting war). In this case, faction a and b MUST be strong enough to fight on their own. If they can only win against Cala by having cala preoccupied with EQ, then it is probable faction a and possible faction b will both be defeated before the EQ war starts. Relying on chance so that EQ will be attacking first isn't a sound strategy.
This would be where merging factions comes in. I personally don't think that people temporarily joining a faction so that it gets a land or 2, then moving on to help another faction, is a good idea. Why? Because as soon as those people move on, the faction that gained land will probably lose it as they lose much of their strength. Additionally, because they needed outside aid to take those lands, once that aid moves on, they will not be strong enough to take lands, and therefore the number of truly competitive factions remains static. As a result, for factions to be competitive, it is likely permanent mergers are needed, so that factions have a chance of gaining and keeping land.

The mentality of looking for an easier way to win through means such as riding on EQ's shoulders is part of what is keeping the server where it is. EQ and Cala didn't get where they are today by riding on the shoulders of others, both factions had to struggle and fight and achieve goals of their own making. Factions wishing to gain land MUST be prepared to struggle and fight and learn to hold it on their own also, or they can't become truly competitive. Coordination/dedication/resolve must come from the faction's own experiences and learning, they cannot be taught by another faction. I would love for more competitive factions to emerge, because I tw for the challenge of it. However, it rests on a faction and its members to develop the dive to throw everything into a war, not knowing if it will be enough.
Yes, there are factions that attack Cala weekly now. But, honestly, this doesn't take courage. There is nothing honorable about throwing yourselves into a 7-minute steamroll, and there sure isn't anything smart about it. What IS a good idea, is finding a way to teach your faction what's up and down in tw, what to expect from what, and some basic fundamentals that must be present to do well against a competitive faction. I've seen Illyana comment that Cala won't take the time to teach the smaller factions that tw us. Should we? Maybe, maybe not. Depends who you ask. But, the thing is, these factions know what Cala will do, so expecting otherwise doesn't make sense, and a 7-minute roll every week isn't going to help learn TW. These factions need to find a better way to learn to tw than just running into deaths and a quick loss. There's ways to do this, but it's also not my place to suggest them, and i doubt that EQ would like at least one of them coming from a cala member lol.

Sorry for any parts of this wall of text that don't make sense or need to be written better, i'll try to fix it some later. If anyone really wants they can pm me about it in game or w/e, and also sorry that this is a wall of text lol.

(Disclaimer: Yes, I am a member of calamity. Yes, I like having tw pay, but i won't cry over it when the changes take place, as i tw for the challenge of it, and would like to see more challenging wars. Also yes, I think relying on a "gank" (why someone took a pk term and applied it to tw, i don't know) is stupid, but for different reasons that most. And, i have a headache so i'm done writing walls of text for a few hours. b:bye -gives out cookies to anyone that's read this far-)

Sabra - Dreamweaver

I need to read more on forums. I have heard that there is something going on with a new TW system but is it just the pay or is there more? When I mention people staying for pay, I don't just mean the immediate pay they get. Being in Calamity is like working for a big corporation and there are added benefits that are like the "benefit package" an the value of those things needs to also be taken into consderation.

When I left Calamity, the first think that really stood out was that I couldn't teleport everywhere anymore. Yeah the teleport is a once an hour thing so you can't just constantly pop all over the map but with planning... wow that saved a lot of time and money. When you save the time... well you know the saying, time is money. And when you save the money-well you save the money. I almost sat down once to try to figure out how much money I had saved by having that benefit. I think it was more for me bc I was called a lot to go rez someone or heal for a boss but stilll... for many people, HUGE perk.

Apo-sometimes that one isnt figured in but having access to rare apo that no one else is supposed to be able to have access-again big bonus with huge value even if it isn't monetary.

Top all of this off with many high levels where it becomes much easier to get BH, nirvana or anything else you want done... lots of benefits that actually have a lot of value added on to the TW pay. (sure they have to look outside of faction too for some things, but not quite as often).

These are the the things that I meant when i talk about people staying for the pay... pay plus benefits. Probably these will remain huge bonuses for them.

Sabra - Dreamweaver

Ty for the post Shadowfire.

One of the reasons that I call for the outside help from EQ is for expertise. Sure if cala is willing to go help teach then yay! There is a lot to TW as you know and some of these smaller factions could probably do with some lessons. As Ursa said... we didnt start out with all of the expertise that there is now in Calamity. We had a lot of guts and perserverance. If some people went and talked to small factions about communication, vent, some strategy... that would help them as much or more than the added muscle. Sure people can learn things on their own. Being taught makes things go much faster. While I'm sure that some of them have some of this figured out... some probably don't and deal with TW as a big PK session rather than a war.

I haven't been in a smaller TW faction so I'm not sure and I am sure not trying to say bad things about you guys. Free rides wasn't my intention. Working together, teaching, learning, coming up with ideas or strategies that hadn't been tried yet.... this was more my thought. I do think some of this can be taught. It has be be practiced a lot of times to get good at it, but the foundations can be taught if people are willing to.

I totally agree with you about some of this... when I see small factions totally just throwing their money away... and to me it seems like that is what they are doing... I think that is a total waste. I think that you are hinting that some small factions might want to hit EQ... that is probably true, though they a lot of them wouldn't have a good chance there either, and its pretty hard to want to hit the only other faction on the map when they are starting to get somewhere.

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the rich get richer and the poor get poorer; those who are on the top will in a very sense, always will be,

I apologize for the fragmentation, but this series of of words is so true, its sickening. The only way those on top will ever be removed: Are when they tire out and leave on their own, or when they start to turn on one another and devour themselves.

Both are happening.

However there will always be someone whom wishes to rule the land, and shall.

Ana<3

Aubree - Dreamweaver

GrimReaperHC - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As seen on real life ... Btw, your idea is good, ppl will have something to fight for, but it will be better if there is restart on the territories, cuz if now EQ takes all of the Calamity territories, then we are back to stage 1 - one faction rules the world. If there is res, many factions will have the chance to get their own territory and defend it. At least this is my point of view.

EQ had no intention of owning all lands. Our goal is for a multi-color map. We would just like to see more factions working for that goal as well.

You can quote me here. I am a Marshal in EQ, if we ever own more than half of the map, I will abandon EQ and help fight the good fight against EQ. I came to EQ after the loss of arch. I have been here a while. We do get a few new members now and then saying stuff like " I can't wait till we own the map!" And that is where we correct them. EQ has no intention of owning the map.

As for who will we fight once we reach that point? I hope that more factions have become strong tw factions and give us a good fight to keep what we earned. This is exactly what is happening to Calamity. There is no such thing as a gank. That is how the sytem is built.. Either be the strongest and defend 3 lands at once, or you dont deserve the lands you lose.
You can successfully take 65 people to a full-on turtle, against 80 people attacking and come out victorious. The challenge would then be whether or not you recruited strong, dedicated members to fill that goal.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

If EQ owns 1 half of the map, who owns the other half? Calamity. How does that help to create a rainbow map? Smaller factions, even at this stage, would have no chance of winning 1 vs 1 against either EQ, or Cala.

"I will abandon EQ and help fight the good fight against EQ."

The good fight? In order to fight a good fight you have to fight against someone evil. Are the dominant factions somehow evil?

Aside that, it's not the smaller factions fault if their TW only lasts for 7 minutes. We are all trying the best we can. Right now there is practically no other faction which smaller factions can practice TW against than Cala and EQ, but yet you say that people shouldn't do that? What do you suggest we do then? How do you suggest that we teach all the new people what TW is even about? Because we do get people in that have NEVER been in a TW before on a constant basis.

You want us to just "teach them"? That will never work the same as getting to see the place for yourself. In the end it's up to EQ and Cala to allow the smaller factions some time to practice.

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Aside that, it's not the smaller factions fault if their TW only lasts for 7 minutes. We are all trying the best we can. Right now there is practically no other faction which smaller factions can practice TW against than Cala and EQ, but yet you say that people shouldn't do that? What do you suggest we do then? How do you suggest that we teach all the new people what TW is even about? Because we do get people in that have NEVER been in a TW before on a constant basis.

You want us to just "teach them"? That will never work the same as getting to see the place for yourself. In the end it's up to EQ and Cala to allow the smaller factions some time to practice.

This works both ways. Granted, neither EQ or Cala is doing much to help the smaller factions, even if EQ claims they are. Being allowed to go through the motions of tw by people that can end it at any time isn't the best alternative either. Imo, this is where EQ messed up so badly when they gave up lands to take some from dynasty and relocate on the map. Yes, EQ got relocated, and yes, they got some group attacks in with dynasty and later vanquish. But now Vanquish is off the map, Dynasty is trying to get back on the map, and it's only EQ and Cala that are really competitive. The lands dynasty had held before were one of the best training areas for the smaller factions. I was in HDT at the time, we learned a lot fighting bushido and dynasty there, and i'm sure other factions learned a lot as well. When those lands were lost, that training was lost also.

A training tw and a real tw are very different experiences. It's one thing to be allowed to walk through the motions by another faction. Being allowed to attack the base 1-3 times and then being crushed doesn't teach anything. A real tw against another relatively equal faction is much more beneficial, as it requires coordination, figuring out how to get cata squads to the other base alive, how to track enemy positions, and so on. These are things that can be explained, but are better learned in real tws. Unfortunately, the EQ/Cala map control that exists doesn't allow this, and I honestly don't see either faction doing anything to change this situation.

At the same time though, I've never heard of anyone from the smaller factions that have fought us asking for advice. This isn't to say it doesn't happen, but that i haven't encountered it. If asked, I'm sure quite a few of us (myself included) would gladly give the tips we can from our tw experiences. Cala could do a better job offering this, yes, as i know we don't really do much to teach other factions. Will that change? idk, i' m not an officer. But if people ask me I'll help how I can with advice. EQ could also help more by toning down the crusade to make a multi-colored map, and focusing more on just simply learning. Learning comes before being able to take and hold land, and EQ's current methodology seems much more along the lines of 1. Help attacking Cala, hoping to tie us up so another faction gets land. 2. Propaganda about helping more factions get on the map, plan another attack. 3. Propaganda against Calamity when they take back the land they lost the week before, even though the result was already known when EQ helped that faction to get the land. This is working well for EQ, but for their allies, it's not that good of a deal, seeing as EQ is the only one to have truly gained land from this. More pink =/= more colors on the map. It's still just red and pink.

Tl:dr; yes, there are valid reasons for smaller factions to resent Cala and EQ for the current situation, as those 2 factions are responsible, and yes Cala and EQ make learning tw difficult because smaller factions have no lands available to fight each other in difficult, balanced wars. This doesn't mean that having 9 small factions all trying to attack Cala or EQ isn't a bad idea, merging or developing some system to work together would be better, as would taking the proactive step of asking EQ and Cala members for advice. Or even asking some members of other factions that have a lot of tw experience under their belt. (I'd name an HDT cleric, but he scares me and i like being able to go white named, so don't want to get him pm spammed lol :P [joke, he's a cool guy]).

PS: Sorry for the wall of text. It seems when i'm low on sleep i end up posting big walls of text.

SkyFi - Dreamweaver

I don't know if you can have this multi color faction controlled territories. All you have to do is look back to this servers beginning. Everyone was jumping out getting land then it all became land locked by other factions. Now give or take hidden alliances that may be. There will be agreements with the given factions but some day one will gank out the other faction. Just like back then with EQ and ARMA vs CAL but that

Illyana - Dreamweaver

Oops, looks like you got cut off SkyFi.

Anyway, to answer a few questions about EQ's ambitions, since it has come up again. When we say that we'll never own more than half the map, it is in all likeliness that we will not approach 1/2 the map. People should realize that holding the entire map is not a feasible goal at this point in the server's lifecycle.

That does not mean that EQ halt its TW offensives where it can find a good fight. Perhaps we can post publicly the name of a land we have no intentions of defending? Then whomever bids highest can have it, and defend it from future attackers?

Of course, that land would ideally have to be separated from Calamity, so they don't simply take it again. There is no sense in really thinking about it right now as that's such a long way off, and hopefully TW changes will help EQ to realize its' goals.

Apparently, there is an EQ rallying campaign that I'm not aware of. Our plan does not require the agreement from any other faction, as it is a mindset more than it is means to convince others. In the grand scheme of things with regards of other factions wanting to destroy Calamity, Calamity has done so much more to convince others to attack them than anything EQ has.

It has been asked of me before (rather pointedly) in the forums what EQ could do to diminish Cala's grasp on the map, and I responded with a list of things that EQ could do to help; however, this isn't something that has been acted upon in full or in part.

So, don't give EQ credit where it isn't due. I would suspect a good chunk of the anti-Calamity sentiment to come from the TW capable players on Dreamweaver who are not part of the red-touting auspicious 200.

EQ will keep doing what EQ does-- TW for fun, socializing, PK, end-game character play, and spreading the pink, in the very least, within the mindset of others with regards to respect and equality. Now, that paragraph sounds like a campaign! But that's who we are, that's how we play, and if it sounds to others like a rallying message, may our actions speak louder than a forum post b:chuckle

SkyFi - Dreamweaver

yeah i got cut off b:sad I blame work b:laugh

I was going to just say things always plan out to be in the factions benefit. But from the short tw's to todays long 3 hour tw. I would say its way more fun now but its taxing on both sides. The side that wins will depend on the way the faction runs within.

I have been away from PWI but from the first time EQ attacked Cal and what they are now its a bit different maybe due to some new leadership. I don't know but the one thing that turns is once your on top no matter how things play out you will always be that faction everyone will want to top.

I want to see what will happen to EQ once they are get multiple wars on the same day by some challenging factions. b:pleased Its all fun competition until people decide to take it to a personal level which is never good. I've seen my share of drama from a marshal point of view. I would say the hardest thing in a faction is how you reinvent it by incorporating new people to it.

Sabra - Dreamweaver

I still dont quite get this quote business. If someone can pm me and tell me how to quote something from a differnt thread that would be awesome. This thing wont even let me copy and paste On to the quote b:laugh

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=611631&page=13 Post number 45 actually uses the phrase "call to arms" not rallying cry or whatever I said and you were the one that made it Illyana.

If one were to be inclined to take the time to read this thread... it was a pretty ugly thing. Calling people cowards... threats of retribution and farming others... This was what I was referring to when I mentioned you all trying to rally others. It hasn't been done in a pleasant or respectful way. (illyana you werent the only one doing it... several EQ, Ajay/Buttsekks included) That is who you were and that is how you played. Maybe actions speak louder than words... but damn some of those words were rough and tend to be remembered.

I gotta say, you all seem to have learned some that those ugly ways dont pay good dues and have gone out of your way to attempt to tone some of that down and become as Ajay puts it "the most helpful and respectful faction".

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The truth of the matter is this:

Equinox has attempted to fight off Calamity nearly single-handed for much of the last 5+ months. There are other factions out there who are capable of attacking Calamity but have not because they have feared retribution. Equinox' call to arms against the dominant land-owner have gone largely unheard. When there are no little lands for which strong factions can quibble over, alliances will be forced and Calamity will have difficulty.

For those who are current land owners or those who have held land and not attacked Calamity out of fear, your time of cowardice is nearing its end. Calamity is going to be every one's problem very soon, but first your problem may very well be Equinox. The taste of defeat is always the most bitter at first; Equinox comes battle-hardened and well trained. May each bring their best to the fight, and in the event your faction loses, know that it is not to your opponent you are losing to, but to your long history of inaction. The red map is testament to this.

There you go Sabra.

I would just hit the quote button inside of the original post and copy and past on to this thread ^.^

This particular post has been quoted before, even with-in my limited experience on these forums, I have seen it. lol.


It truly does showcase Equinox's true demeanor. Which is fine, I just find it rather amusing (though galling as hell in the beginning) that EQ has convinced the server (or at least fanned the flames significantly) that Calamity are evil and greedy blah blah blah. when in fact Calamity acted as a kind of mentor (I use the term loosely) to set the standard of game play for the server.

Calamity were a bunch of hardcore gamers that played to win, and their leadership had the fore-sight that staying power meant being tolerable (to the rest of the server) at the very least. Hence your Boss days, FB drop/TT splitting procedures etc that with early cala showed the server how to play nice with one another. Respectful World chatting and/or simply not acknowledging World chat at all was a huge corner stone of that as well. PK was a touchy subject but with guilds like bloodpact it was easy to shine against their muck.

Cala took their land with grace in the beginning and that beginning was 3/4 of the map. TW is the life blood of Calamity. The 'fight' is in their blood, and in that fight Cala has always held the position that yes, they were better than their 'enemy' because they played 'fair' and didn't discriminate against the other guild in WC/squadding etc. Self Righteous motivation, is their greatest strength....give an army self righteous motivation...then each of them feel like they are fighting a personal battle in TW and yet working as a whole towards a common goal....that was the machine.

However you cannot have the light without the dark. Equinox were Calamity's dark....the force they fought against......after all Calamity was golden

I speak in past tense as I do not believe for a second that Calamity has had these great qualities since December...perhaps longer, despite some of their members best efforts.

Now Equinox tried to shove this BS down every one's throat that they (Equinox) were the true 'Golden faction' fighting the good fight and such.....Equinox never did anything for the server. They tricked Guilds into aligning with them to gain members, and land when they were forced to relocate. After all...Equinox was built on mergers....and old EQ knows that...they know their original strength comes from consuming past factions.

Unfortunately, if you abuse your guard dog per se, it will get very pissed off. Calamity was running EQ off the map, very very effectively. did EQ deserve it? were they 'evil and bad'? not really, but they were Calamity's Leadership's target, they broke thier mutual truce to divide the map equally...oh yes Cala and EQ .......from 1k to Dreamweaver Port..a perfectly diagonal cut ...it had never been done..EQ and Cala thought they could do it....however...Cala was stronger..much stronger than EQ...and my theory is EQ got scared an like a small dog with small dog syndrome, tried to take a bite out of Cala....they have paid the price ever since.

Calamity is no longer the gentle giant they were...The propaganda led by EQ and the general abuse random Calamity members get now...has turned many of them..just bitter as hell. Cala is sick of being "the good guy" tired of being told what they can and can't do, tired of being forced to do nothing when the abuse showers in World Chat..they want to fight back...and they want to do it in a very vicious manner. That's war.

Equinox has set themselves up well, and will be a nice counter balance for Calamity at this time. I don't believe either guild can survive without the other. As for other guilds? good luck...but you will be used in some way or another....Dynasty is a perfect example of what not to do..do not make an alliance with either Calamity or EQ not a true one at least....in the end they don't need you...you need them (kind of)

you (The smaller factions) will need to band together and make a new 'super power' however it is pretty far fetched
and I feel certain neither EQ or Calamity expect it to ever happen.

until then enjoy the show, because you will always be a spectator, never a player.

Ana<3

Yorkin - Dreamweaver

Geeez this thread is getting to a culmination, I see.

Illyiana mentioned implementation of new TW rules. Now, I don't know much about TW system itself... but, wouldn't that need an entire reset of territorial ownings, as many threads of this kind have mentioned before?

NightRage - Raging Tide

I wish I was still on such an interesting server.

PenutButer - Dreamweaver

Stop making long posts <

Decus - Dreamweaver

EDIT: Post was, once again, swallowed >.<

Decus - Dreamweaver

EDIT: Post was, once again, swallowed >.<

Decus - Dreamweaver

Sorry about the double post there, mea culpa :<

Sabra - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Calling people cowards... threats of retribution and farming others... This was what I was referring to when I mentioned you all trying to rally others. It hasn't been done in a pleasant or respectful way. (illyana you werent the only one doing it... several EQ, Ajay/Buttsekks included) That is who you were and that is how you played. Maybe actions speak louder than words... but damn some of those words were rough and tend to be remembered.

Personally, I like how that still hasn't been addressed, even after Shadowfire quoted it several times in another post and directed questions to both Ajay and Illyana. But hey? Equinox isn't the bad one here, right? Yea, must be right... b:puzzled

/sarcasm

Decus - Dreamweaver

EDIT: Can someone explain to me why I cannot post more than 3-4 few lines of text >:O

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

PenutButer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stop making long posts <

couldnt had said it better myself nutster @_@ its so confusin