Archer v. Wizard for DDer

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok... everyone have their DD ways


Physics have black voodoo, but they get to be the squishiest ever, possibly can get 1 shotted by a normal mob, can happen b:shocked
Barbs have the most damage access, but problem is they have to sacrifice HP low dps
Wizards have huge damage, but they cast slow
Archers have high damage with crits, but they are rag dolls up close no one's going to be up close for PvE
Clerics have high damage and have BOTH debuffs, they lower their own defenses
BMs have different ways to damage but not as better than others, they are versatile fists with -int are second to Sins with -int
Sins have epically high crit, but they are a squishy melee class Higest DPS but if you aggro you are f***ed. At least archer is at a distance when pulled aggro.
Venoes possibly (not sure lol) have the worst DPS out of all the classes but they have pets, and best of all overpowered ones such as nix or herc, but I don't think nix or herc is OP enough. lol Due to no damage reduction for pets, venos are actually great DDs in instances


Any class have a way to DD

Really? I thought only a couple of class can attack in this game.

My pick is Archer since Wiz to me are more of constant spike damage but lower DPS where as archer's normal attacks have good DPS along with crits. It's like spamming skills vs normal attack on a BM with spear.

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1 wiz/1 archer for DD is good, archer for sharptooth arrow/general dps, wiz for consistent dd and emergency healing if needed. Archers don't have healing arrows, after all.

FYI.. Demon archers have healing arrows lol

but to answer the orginal post.. archer win.

End game bh bosses for example.. with a nice combo we do 70-140k per shot at a rate of 1.33

if that combo doesnt win.. then we can always switch to fists.. and who can argue with 4-5.0

Archers have a healing arrow ;o.... Just yell out healing arrow using sharpen tooth on a boss that has been damaged and watch his HP % go up! b:chuckle

I've tricked a few people doing that

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Now that they added the actual HP amount, it doesn't work as well b:sad

Also, why won't this thread just die already?

Because archers won't quit posting till we're in the lead b:thanks

I say...whichever I can find b:victory

Voted Archer though since I gotta support my class

PS: Veno + Herc do it all doesnt require a squad to begin with, hence option is invalid. Besides on normal bosses/mobs/etc a wiz or an archer easily out damages a veno+herc combo.

Archers

~16-18% of bosses hp of the bat
~25%+ crit by 9x
~speed of attk(w/demon qs)
b:bye

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

The 10k damage doesn't require much to do, all it takes is regular Deicides that are maybe +3 to hit that high. It's the 20k that takes alot.

And again, this was to address the popularly held belief of a herc being the best tank possible due to no damage loss on ? bosses. But if it doesn't do enough damage, then it doesn't matter if it doesn't get reduced or not. I was trying to find out if it was true or false, but from all the added comments that go off in all direction, it is in fact false?

with proper debuffs bash hit those bosses in 3-1 for 16k-19k while reflect can be up to 16k.
with no debuffs, reflect is like 4-5k and atk a little less or up to 8-9k with bash
but that was at higher 8x lvl or 90, since then i've got more lvls but only tried solo or duo.
anyway, seems like duo with another veno was about the same time spent like a squad of barb+cleric plus 2 others (no veno). but thats it, in TT it works, in FB this fails.
another thing is, pets cant be refined so anyone with 5 atk/sec, always triple sparked and wearing high refined fists will outdamage pets. when everyone on these servers will have very good gear and all refined +10 or more... then pets will be almost useless. with that kind of gear i can tank myself better than my pet. i kinda hate the way pets progress in this game. so pets can do that much till people get their hands on real equips.

back on topic, archers get alot more than 20-25% crit in end game. that 20% crit rate can be achieved by a CS arcane wizard too so dont have your mind fixed on that 1% crit. wiz can do lots of spike damage with undine strike and what not. one of the archers i know has r8 and like 40% crit and he killed fb89 bosses in like 1-2 minutes each. i dont know how much takes for a wiz to kill them but ive seen pve numbers up to 300k from wizards.

kenlee wrote: »

with proper debuffs bash hit those bosses in 3-1 for 16k-19k while reflect can be up to 16k.
with no debuffs, reflect is like 4-5k and atk a little less or up to 8-9k with bash
but that was at higher 8x lvl or 90, since then i've got more lvls but only tried solo or duo.
anyway, seems like duo with another veno was about the same time spent like a squad of barb+cleric plus 2 others (no veno). but thats it, in TT it works, in FB this fails.
another thing is, pets cant be refined so anyone with 5 atk/sec, always triple sparked and wearing high refined fists will outdamage pets. when everyone on these servers will have very good gear and all refined +10 or more... then pets will be almost useless. with that kind of gear i can tank myself better than my pet. i kinda hate the way pets progress in this game. so pets can do that much till people get their hands on real equips.

back on topic, archers get alot more than 20-25% crit in end game. that 20% crit rate can be achieved by a CS arcane wizard too so dont have your mind fixed on that 1% crit. wiz can do lots of spike damage with undine strike and what not. one of the archers i know has r8 and like 40% crit and he killed fb89 bosses in like 1-2 minutes each. i dont know how much takes for a wiz to kill them but ive seen pve numbers up to 300k from wizards.

I have gold FC fist+6 with G11 Garnet, and I can easily get over 15ks on FB's and such, fully maxed out hits in FC hit for 6k or so.

Archer.

I haven't met a lot of wizards to be fair. The ones I do meet though either
1) Have problems managing aggro
2) Die when they get aggro (or have illusions that they can survive it)
3) Constantly talk about needing MP Food

On the other hand, most of the archers that I have met
1) Protect the clerics
2) Manage their aggro
3) Actually devise plans to survive aggro

But, that's just my experience. I speak for my level. And I haven't met a lot of wizards who don't die in instance runs for whatever weird reasons.

That might change when I level and meet better wizards. Even so, the MP food thing is enough to let me grab an archer anytime. (I haven't met archers who ask me to donate arrows/bolts/shots yet.)

id say depend on mobs, tho in general i hit alot with:
best arrows,
extreme poison,
frenzy,
of course HF (=2x higher dmg),
demon spark O,o
also my crit is 30% (no skills, apo),
in general my dmg can increase easily up to 10 maybe even 20 times depending on what buffs i have and what debuffs boss has..
and i attack faster >:P

but some has elemental weakness and mages can use that..
in tw tho, mages can 1 hit me, and i can 1 hit them >:P

XDCharmXD - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So Wizz owns all

Can a wizard take 3,836,336 HP from a world boss in one attack? Sharpened Tooth Arrow surely makes archers pretty OP as DDing (on bosses).

XDCharmXD - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hib:bye... **** the archers...they always steal the aggro and thats 1 reson why they suck...
Wizzy>Archer,Wizzy>BM
If u know how to use a wizzy u can own anyone(almost anyone o.O*)
As an example who the heck can beat Elayne????b:chuckle
So Wizz owns all
Bye b:bye

Then again we can deliberately steal aggro (much faster than a wiz) in order to save the cleric which would be a good thing b:victory.

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

I really want to know the opinion from everyone out there, do you think a wizard or an archer is a better DDer (and please provide reasons why I dont want a flame war, like saying "archers are better because they are")

I say wizards are better because

1. Im a wizard b:laugh
2. We do very large amounts of very constant damage
3. Very low crit strike % if you wear arcane (like all wizards should)
4. A wizard that knows how to play that class will be able to know when they might get agro accidentally (unlike an archer where a crit will get it like nothing)
5. Im tired of Archers thinking they are all that

On the opposite site I see a few why Archers could be considered better

1. Has Sharpened tooth Arrow that lowers max hp (but in reality doesnt that make them worse because archers arent supposed to take hits and that will make it easier for them to get agro wont it?)
2. Dont rely on mana to do everything (but I have over 8k mana now and in a good squad on a boss like zimo or anything else in fb59 I run out of mana just before it dies so.....)
3. Deals physical damage primarily for those pesky increased magic resistance mobs


So see I tried to show it from each side, but I want to know who you prefer in a squad and why

Having an 89 wizzy and 98 cleric and being a fcc-holic, in my opinion archers come out on top and heres why:

Wizards

1) If you take aggro you might have a tranq apoth pill but if the tank cant take aggro youre as good as dead unless you have alot of pdef
2) A good wizzy can sutra heal with morning dew when cleric needs it(mainly on stormtrooper)
3)Good damage ofcourse
4) A well placed MS can be helpful on bishop groups
5) Longer casting then the time it takes an archer to hit(disregarding -int/-channeling)

Archers

1) We make barbs almost obsolete in fcc besides long pulls(which some archers can do) and we can always use the hp buff
2) A well play archer will almost never die. Wings of grace (anti stun + -30% damage taken and a useless speed buff) saves your life and gives time for people to react.
3) We can watch the squishies and aggro if need or wingspan if you take too much aggro
4) Elven Alacrity saves the barb from not having to holy path on some pulls
5) We can tank what the hercs cants. I've never seen a wiz tank Decaying Fragrance.
6) Downfall is our defenses are still mediocre
7) We can maintain aggro easily with common sense and we can tank if we do take aggro
8) Sharpened Tooth doesnt really lead to instant aggro. Use your brain and wait for the tank to hit a few times.

Theres dozens more but i think the point is clear. We can do and survive longer then the typical wizzie. I'd play my archer in an fcc any day over a wizzy. We just simply have more to offer usually although there are some crafty smart wizzies out there. Besides I almost rather a psy then a wizzy

Alyosha - Lost City wrote: »

Aren't fist BMs the best DD 90+?

b:laugh Not anymore, its all about Sinsb:cute

@kenlee
The argument here is not on how potent a DD a wiz can be. Its already known wizards have the highest DPH in the game.

The real discussion in this thread was basically to see which DD would one prefer in their squads and for what reasons. It might have got derailed a bit along the way.

The only place I, as an archer, even use sharptooth arrow is on TT bosses, World Bosses and high level FB bosses. This is because most of the other cases, I can easily hit that 16% damage reduction in a few hits which would be faster than actually casting sharptooth.

Sage Venos at lvl92 can get soul degeneration to reduce 20% of max hp (that extra 4% is not much of a difference on normal bosses really) which I will not contend with. So unless you have a lvl92+ sage veno with the skill, archers pretty much have an advantage there.

I guess it depends on each person in the squad. Frankly I dont care who the DD is, as long as things go down fast...am ok with it.