Archer v. Wizard for DDer

Gasoline - Lost City · February 2010

Both archers and wizards draw agro in FBs. Haven't noticed any bigger difference between the classes, its more about refines and build than class.

Occasionally pulling agro is not really a problem anyway unless your below 90+ and gets 1 shoot by pretty much anything. People here acts like a DD getting agro its the end of the world lol. Maybe the boss hits you once, or uses some aoe on party once, than barb bites again and you're all fine.

Overall id pick archer before wizard tho. For a wiz to get the same dmg-output over time and make up for the fact that the archers has sharp tooth, they have to work pretty damn hard using sutra, undine strike, sparking etc and in most cases have the benefit of bosses/mobs with right elements. Most wizards dont since they are (like rest of us) lazy. Archers can afford to be lazy they just have to auto shoot anyway and they also dont need to waste mp lol.

But for TT i rather pick a 90+ fist BM or another Herc owner anyway, far better DD than both wiz/archer.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok... everyone have their DD ways

Physics have black voodoo, but they get to be the squishiest ever, possibly can get 1 shotted by a normal mob, can happen b:shocked
Barbs have the most damage access, but problem is they have to sacrifice HP low dps
Wizards have huge damage, but they cast slow
Archers have high damage with crits, but they are rag dolls up close no one's going to be up close for PvE
Clerics have high damage and have BOTH debuffs, they lower their own defenses
BMs have different ways to damage but not as better than others, they are versatile fists with -int are second to Sins with -int
Sins have epically high crit, but they are a squishy melee class Higest DPS but if you aggro you are f***ed. At least archer is at a distance when pulled aggro.
Venoes possibly (not sure lol) have the worst DPS out of all the classes but they have pets, and best of all overpowered ones such as nix or herc, but I don't think nix or herc is OP enough. lol Due to no damage reduction for pets, venos are actually great DDs in instances

Any class have a way to DD

Really? I thought only a couple of class can attack in this game.

My pick is Archer since Wiz to me are more of constant spike damage but lower DPS where as archer's normal attacks have good DPS along with crits. It's like spamming skills vs normal attack on a BM with spear.

Nanannana - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Maxed sharptooth, enough said.

Veno > EA tho

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1 wiz/1 archer for DD is good, archer for sharptooth arrow/general dps, wiz for consistent dd and emergency healing if needed. Archers don't have healing arrows, after all.

FYI.. Demon archers have healing arrows lol

but to answer the orginal post.. archer win.

End game bh bosses for example.. with a nice combo we do 70-140k per shot at a rate of 1.33

if that combo doesnt win.. then we can always switch to fists.. and who can argue with 4-5.0

Alliptica - Raging Tide · February 2010

i say archer bcuz they crit the hell out of the boss

Ussichu - Sanctuary · February 2010

Archers have a healing arrow ;o.... Just yell out healing arrow using sharpen tooth on a boss that has been damaged and watch his HP % go up! b:chuckle

I've tricked a few people doing that

Brigid - Harshlands · February 2010

Ussichu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archers have a healing arrow ;o.... Just yell out healing arrow using sharpen tooth on a boss that has been damaged and watch his HP % go up! b:chuckle

I've tricked a few people doing that

Now that they added the actual HP amount, it doesn't work as well b:sad

Also, why won't this thread just die already?

Dractonis - Lost City · February 2010

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Now that they added the actual HP amount, it doesn't work as well b:sad

Also, why won't this thread just die already?

Because archers won't quit posting till we're in the lead b:thanks

Dractonis - Lost City · February 2010

We are winning b:angry

Elviron - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I say...whichever I can find b:victory

Voted Archer though since I gotta support my class

PS: Veno + Herc do it all doesnt require a squad to begin with, hence option is invalid. Besides on normal bosses/mobs/etc a wiz or an archer easily out damages a veno+herc combo.

Moranine - Lost City · February 2010

Would say its a Tie between Archer's and the Herc.

Herc's suffer no damage penalty for ? boss and Archer's crit on everything they hit.

Mage's your Ult's are good in PvP but in PvE by the time you do a 20k Crit us Archer's would have already passed that and more.

Waterboy - Lost City · February 2010

Archers

~16-18% of bosses hp of the bat
~25%+ crit by 9x
~speed of attk(w/demon qs)
b:bye

Klizzahrd - Lost City · March 2010

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

I really want to know the opinion from everyone out there, do you think a wizard or an archer is a better DDer (and please provide reasons why I dont want a flame war, like saying "archers are better because they are")

I say wizards are better because

1. Im a wizard b:laugh
2. We do very large amounts of very constant damagetrue wizz can control their damage better. Although if archers want more constant damage they can always switch to some refined fists and punch away. My refined fists do pretty constant damage and over-all prolly do as much as my bow...
3. Very low crit strike % if you wear arcane (like all wizards should)But when you do crit its bad. How many times have I seen wizzie get one shotted after dealing a 70k+ crit and taking aggro just from that? And when bosses have 1-3 mill hp the odds of you critting during the fight are pretty good. Just pray it happens twords the end haha
4. A wizard that knows how to play that class will be able to know when they might get agro accidentally (unlike an archer where a crit will get it like nothing) by waiting till tank has aggro, crits, unless they are insanly hi, will not take aggro. Plus crits from normal attacks will not get aggro since they are much lower. The aggro taking crits are usually from skills. A smart archer will not blast off every skill they have if tank doesnt have good hold.
5. Im tired of Archers thinking they are all thatsame goes for wizzes lol. There will always be bad players.

On the opposite site I see a few why Archers could be considered better

1. Has Sharpened tooth Arrow that lowers max hp (but in reality doesnt that make them worse because archers arent supposed to take hits and that will make it easier for them to get agro wont it?) We shoot sharpened and then wait for a bit. We don't start off nuking the boss with all we got lol. And even if it does we are far enough away that tank can take aggro right back since we are no longer attacking.
2. Dont rely on mana to do everything (but I have over 8k mana now and in a good squad on a boss like zimo or anything else in fb59 I run out of mana just before it dies so.....)
3. Deals physical damage primarily for those pesky increased magic resistance mobs
4: has evasion and speed buffs compared to the wizz's ONE water buff
5: if the mob gets close up our skills wont be interrupted like yours are. We can just switch to fists and keep going.
6: We aren't one shots...usually

So see I tried to show it from each side, but I want to know who you prefer in a squad and why

fixes in red lol

I just realized I didn't answer the question ...I'd take a wiz cause I AM an archer. So why would I want 2 archers in squad? I'd rather have one of each.

kenlee · March 2010

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

The 10k damage doesn't require much to do, all it takes is regular Deicides that are maybe +3 to hit that high. It's the 20k that takes alot.

And again, this was to address the popularly held belief of a herc being the best tank possible due to no damage loss on ? bosses. But if it doesn't do enough damage, then it doesn't matter if it doesn't get reduced or not. I was trying to find out if it was true or false, but from all the added comments that go off in all direction, it is in fact false?

with proper debuffs bash hit those bosses in 3-1 for 16k-19k while reflect can be up to 16k.
with no debuffs, reflect is like 4-5k and atk a little less or up to 8-9k with bash
but that was at higher 8x lvl or 90, since then i've got more lvls but only tried solo or duo.
anyway, seems like duo with another veno was about the same time spent like a squad of barb+cleric plus 2 others (no veno). but thats it, in TT it works, in FB this fails.
another thing is, pets cant be refined so anyone with 5 atk/sec, always triple sparked and wearing high refined fists will outdamage pets. when everyone on these servers will have very good gear and all refined +10 or more... then pets will be almost useless. with that kind of gear i can tank myself better than my pet. i kinda hate the way pets progress in this game. so pets can do that much till people get their hands on real equips.

back on topic, archers get alot more than 20-25% crit in end game. that 20% crit rate can be achieved by a CS arcane wizard too so dont have your mind fixed on that 1% crit. wiz can do lots of spike damage with undine strike and what not. one of the archers i know has r8 and like 40% crit and he killed fb89 bosses in like 1-2 minutes each. i dont know how much takes for a wiz to kill them but ive seen pve numbers up to 300k from wizards.

Infliction - Raging Tide · March 2010

I vote Archer for really anything lvl150, wizard for any FB or such. Sharpened tooth arrow helps some insane amounts, and overall, yea, fist bm owns both.

Infliction - Raging Tide · March 2010

kenlee wrote: »

with proper debuffs bash hit those bosses in 3-1 for 16k-19k while reflect can be up to 16k.
with no debuffs, reflect is like 4-5k and atk a little less or up to 8-9k with bash
but that was at higher 8x lvl or 90, since then i've got more lvls but only tried solo or duo.
anyway, seems like duo with another veno was about the same time spent like a squad of barb+cleric plus 2 others (no veno). but thats it, in TT it works, in FB this fails.
another thing is, pets cant be refined so anyone with 5 atk/sec, always triple sparked and wearing high refined fists will outdamage pets. when everyone on these servers will have very good gear and all refined +10 or more... then pets will be almost useless. with that kind of gear i can tank myself better than my pet. i kinda hate the way pets progress in this game. so pets can do that much till people get their hands on real equips.

back on topic, archers get alot more than 20-25% crit in end game. that 20% crit rate can be achieved by a CS arcane wizard too so dont have your mind fixed on that 1% crit. wiz can do lots of spike damage with undine strike and what not. one of the archers i know has r8 and like 40% crit and he killed fb89 bosses in like 1-2 minutes each. i dont know how much takes for a wiz to kill them but ive seen pve numbers up to 300k from wizards.

I have gold FC fist+6 with G11 Garnet, and I can easily get over 15ks on FB's and such, fully maxed out hits in FC hit for 6k or so.

Ruvil - Sanctuary · March 2010

Archer vs Wizard?

Archer

1) ST -16%
2) Pretend you are a squishy BM w/o fist mastery and grab some fists anyways <_<
3) Get atleast 4 atk/sec and punch stuff b:victory

Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary · March 2010

Archer.

I haven't met a lot of wizards to be fair. The ones I do meet though either
1) Have problems managing aggro
2) Die when they get aggro (or have illusions that they can survive it)
3) Constantly talk about needing MP Food

On the other hand, most of the archers that I have met
1) Protect the clerics
2) Manage their aggro
3) Actually devise plans to survive aggro

But, that's just my experience. I speak for my level. And I haven't met a lot of wizards who don't die in instance runs for whatever weird reasons.

That might change when I level and meet better wizards. Even so, the MP food thing is enough to let me grab an archer anytime. (I haven't met archers who ask me to donate arrows/bolts/shots yet.)

Naruchan - Lost City · March 2010

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so our big fat answer is:

DEPENDS

on
gear
build
target-lvl
target-element

i agree...im an archer, i love my class. i have 1 toon in every class tho. so thats why it all depends on the task at hand. any squad with a well rounded class will leave the mobs useless. my wizzy is only 34 right now, and still a bit squishy, but i cant wait til later.

Ignathas - Sanctuary · June 2010

id say depend on mobs, tho in general i hit alot with:
best arrows,
extreme poison,
frenzy,
of course HF (=2x higher dmg),
demon spark O,o
also my crit is 30% (no skills, apo),
in general my dmg can increase easily up to 10 maybe even 20 times depending on what buffs i have and what debuffs boss has..
and i attack faster >:P

but some has elemental weakness and mages can use that..
in tw tho, mages can 1 hit me, and i can 1 hit them >:P

XDCharmXD - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Hib:bye... **** the archers...they always steal the aggro and thats 1 reson why they suck...
Wizzy>Archer,Wizzy>BM
If u know how to use a wizzy u can own anyone(almost anyone o.O*)
As an example who the heck can beat Elayne????b:chuckle
So Wizz owns all
Bye b:bye

Haxxz - Harshlands · June 2010

XDCharmXD - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So Wizz owns all

Can a wizard take 3,836,336 HP from a world boss in one attack? Sharpened Tooth Arrow surely makes archers pretty OP as DDing (on bosses).

Random - Harshlands · June 2010

archers better coz we can afk boss don't think a wiz can do that b:victory
just sta beggining and start dd at 80% then especially if in TT go take a leak mayb chat with my buds on msn and still deal decent damage don't think any wiz can do that even with a macros b:bye

Elviron - Dreamweaver · June 2010

XDCharmXD - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hib:bye... **** the archers...they always steal the aggro and thats 1 reson why they suck...
Wizzy>Archer,Wizzy>BM
If u know how to use a wizzy u can own anyone(almost anyone o.O*)
As an example who the heck can beat Elayne????b:chuckle
So Wizz owns all
Bye b:bye

Then again we can deliberately steal aggro (much faster than a wiz) in order to save the cleric which would be a good thing b:victory.

Neldth - Heavens Tear · June 2010

XDCharmXD - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hib:bye... **** the archers...they always steal the aggro and thats 1 reson why they suck...
Wizzy>Archer,Wizzy>BM
If u know how to use a wizzy u can own anyone(almost anyone o.O*)
As an example who the heck can beat Elayne????b:chuckle
So Wizz owns all
Bye b:bye

Normally any good archer will control they're aggro. It's not that hard to control it either honestly, and AFK'ing letting the arrows just fly, doesn't get aggro barely. It's when we start sparking and using skills that it starts to happen normally. And with AFK'ing they're still doing pretty good damage, especially because of they're crits, I, myself have counted 11 crits in a row... and that Did steal aggro, but since that one time I've only had 4-5 in a row. Wizard's, yes they deal hard damage, but they cast and channel slower then hell, even with -Chann gear, I've squaded with allot of wizards, one time with a lvl 90 and I ended up stealing his aggro (yes, yes I was trying.) he was tanking a magic boss. But the reason I honestly think I was able to, is because of how slowly they hit, while I switched to a wind and the clouds with an interval gear on, I was spamming crits especially with my genie skill Wind Shield which adds to my attack rate, Basically in my opinion allot of it just comes down to DPS. (No no I'm not bashing Wizzies, I honestly Love wizards. I was just proving a point)

Lu$t - Sanctuary · June 2010

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

I really want to know the opinion from everyone out there, do you think a wizard or an archer is a better DDer (and please provide reasons why I dont want a flame war, like saying "archers are better because they are")

I say wizards are better because

1. Im a wizard b:laugh
2. We do very large amounts of very constant damage
3. Very low crit strike % if you wear arcane (like all wizards should)
4. A wizard that knows how to play that class will be able to know when they might get agro accidentally (unlike an archer where a crit will get it like nothing)
5. Im tired of Archers thinking they are all that

On the opposite site I see a few why Archers could be considered better

1. Has Sharpened tooth Arrow that lowers max hp (but in reality doesnt that make them worse because archers arent supposed to take hits and that will make it easier for them to get agro wont it?)
2. Dont rely on mana to do everything (but I have over 8k mana now and in a good squad on a boss like zimo or anything else in fb59 I run out of mana just before it dies so.....)
3. Deals physical damage primarily for those pesky increased magic resistance mobs

So see I tried to show it from each side, but I want to know who you prefer in a squad and why

Having an 89 wizzy and 98 cleric and being a fcc-holic, in my opinion archers come out on top and heres why:

Wizards

1) If you take aggro you might have a tranq apoth pill but if the tank cant take aggro youre as good as dead unless you have alot of pdef
2) A good wizzy can sutra heal with morning dew when cleric needs it(mainly on stormtrooper)
3)Good damage ofcourse
4) A well placed MS can be helpful on bishop groups
5) Longer casting then the time it takes an archer to hit(disregarding -int/-channeling)

Archers

1) We make barbs almost obsolete in fcc besides long pulls(which some archers can do) and we can always use the hp buff
2) A well play archer will almost never die. Wings of grace (anti stun + -30% damage taken and a useless speed buff) saves your life and gives time for people to react.
3) We can watch the squishies and aggro if need or wingspan if you take too much aggro
4) Elven Alacrity saves the barb from not having to holy path on some pulls
5) We can tank what the hercs cants. I've never seen a wiz tank Decaying Fragrance.
6) Downfall is our defenses are still mediocre
7) We can maintain aggro easily with common sense and we can tank if we do take aggro
8) Sharpened Tooth doesnt really lead to instant aggro. Use your brain and wait for the tank to hit a few times.

Theres dozens more but i think the point is clear. We can do and survive longer then the typical wizzie. I'd play my archer in an fcc any day over a wizzy. We just simply have more to offer usually although there are some crafty smart wizzies out there. Besides I almost rather a psy then a wizzy

Anzillu - Raging Tide · June 2010

Lu$t - Sanctuary wrote: »

Having an 89 wizzy and 98 cleric and being a fcc-holic, in my opinion archers come out on top and heres why:

Wizards

1) If you take aggro you might have a tranq apoth pill but if the tank cant take aggro youre as good as dead unless you have alot of pdef

Archers

6) Downfall is our defenses are still mediocre

i highlighted those parts because my mage on PW-MY is light armor. and with earth shield, which almost doubles phys def (adds 100% based on equip for level 10, 150% for dark skill). idk who decaying fragrance is on here, but my mage has a better chance of tanking compared to an archer.

yes the mage has the casting time, but in my opinion the archer and mage are equal for damage dealing. at least my mage is. i've seen the chrono boss between vol 12 and 13 bounce between me and a same level archer. even a completely magic stated mage would deal about the same damage as an archer. a wizard is a magic damage dealer, an archer is a physical damage dealer.

and for mobs getting to close, the archer has two skills for this. mage has a frontal knockback, and a teleport as well as a aoe paralyzation and stun and movement reduction, where the archer has a 360 degree knockback, and single target knockback, movement reduction, stun, and paralyzation. i'd rather have someone who can stop a few mobs with one skill, rather then an archer stopping 3 mobs with 3 skills

so as far as risk of stealing agro from a tank, i'd prefer a mage that can teleport to the tank, rather then an archer running and hoping for the tank to take agro back by trying to catch the boss. a mage may stand behind a tank, with 28 meter casting (30 of level 11) with 25 meter teleporting (30 i believe for dark) that can place him next to the tank, causing the boss to move a very small distance, or at least back to the tank

Lady_of_rage - Lost City · July 2010

Alyosha - Lost City wrote: »

Aren't fist BMs the best DD 90+?

b:laugh Not anymore, its all about Sinsb:cute

kenlee · July 2010

Haxxz - Harshlands wrote: »

Can a wizard take 3,836,336 HP from a world boss in one attack? Sharpened Tooth Arrow surely makes archers pretty OP as DDing (on bosses).

all the archers are saying... we have Sharpened Tooth Arrow. but sage venos has it too and its better than yours unless you **** up your archer and went sage so you can have it the same as venos.

sure, archer can have an easier time getting high attack speed to spark often and no use of mp plus lots of crits. as arcane, its harder to get high crit but not impossible. you can go up to 25% crit as arcane with end game gear that we already have it in pwi. demon spark for wiz also decrease channeling and stack with your channeling gear.

wizard is a potent DD too. take a look at this video, its like same pwi but a downgraded retail version (same as pw-my)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyEo9dV0KiY
if you dont use bids and other chi consuming skills you can actually build some decent chi for next triple spark for fast channeling. i know its not 5 atk/sec but still isnt something to ignore

Elviron - Dreamweaver · July 2010

@kenlee
The argument here is not on how potent a DD a wiz can be. Its already known wizards have the highest DPH in the game.

The real discussion in this thread was basically to see which DD would one prefer in their squads and for what reasons. It might have got derailed a bit along the way.

The only place I, as an archer, even use sharptooth arrow is on TT bosses, World Bosses and high level FB bosses. This is because most of the other cases, I can easily hit that 16% damage reduction in a few hits which would be faster than actually casting sharptooth.

Sage Venos at lvl92 can get soul degeneration to reduce 20% of max hp (that extra 4% is not much of a difference on normal bosses really) which I will not contend with. So unless you have a lvl92+ sage veno with the skill, archers pretty much have an advantage there.

I guess it depends on each person in the squad. Frankly I dont care who the DD is, as long as things go down fast...am ok with it.

Archer v. Wizard for DDer

Comments

Categories