Assassin and Psychic Sage/ Demon Skills

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  • Accel - Raging Tide
    Accel - Raging Tide Posts: 673 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    /facepalm. ya i can tell you never pvped in your life or your just ignorant.

    obviously a sin with tidal protection or focused mind is a very very dangerous sin. so how the **** is it wasting purge? especially if the sin is atking you and half of your status effects or a 3rd of your atks are being dodged? explain that logic to me. 2nd, if you cant move and you have anti stun genie skills/apocs why the hell not use them? your going to just stand there and let the sin own u and go on to the next target?

    seriously dont be a dumass. purge them. no one told you you have to use purge mainly and only on barbs -_-. if your really worried about that leave it up to the other venos that are around. its not like your the only veno on the field with the only purge.

    Maybe because on Raging Tides, theres more than just 2-3 sins around in TW. Who knows, it might be different on your PvP server with cash shop geared sins...There's no super geared sin on RT that is actually a threat.

    Anyways if you're gonna purge my buffs away, I can always just shadow escape and rebuff until I'm ready again if I really wanted to. You're also saying that tidal protection and focused mind are very dangerous skills and since sage increases their % of going off, why would you say that theres no reason to go sage at all?
    You can't see me b:avoid.
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Accel - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Maybe because on Raging Tides, theres more than just 2-3 sins around in TW. Who knows, it might be different on your PvP server with cash shop geared sins...There's no super geared sin on RT that is actually a threat.

    Anyways if you're gonna purge my buffs away, I can always just shadow escape and rebuff until I'm ready again if I really wanted to. You're also saying that tidal protection and focused mind are very dangerous skills and since sage increases their % of going off, why would you say that theres no reason to go sage at all?

    dont know how your going to shadow escape away when you just said you would come out out of shadow escape to tele stun me and shadow escape would be on cool down but w/e... have fun staying in invisible mode for 90 seconds. you will not be a threat to any one im sure if u seriously do that *rolls eyes*

    theres no reason because demon sins also have focus mind and tidal protection? i dont really understand the demon versions translation of tidal and focus mind but it sounds to me like the demon focus mind increases the chance of avoiding dmg by 10% and tidal increases the chance to avoid negative status by 10%. thats what it sounds like to me and if that is the case that would make demon focus mind better then sage focus mind but sage tidal protection would be better then demon tidal protection. but both would be very slight diffrences.
  • Accel - Raging Tide
    Accel - Raging Tide Posts: 673 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    dont know how your going to shadow escape away when you just said you would come out out of shadow escape to tele stun me and shadow escape would be on cool down but w/e...

    theres no reason because demon sins also have focus mind and tidal protection? i dont really understand the demon versions translation of tidal and focus mind but it sounds to me like the demon focus mind increases the chance of avoiding dmg by 10% and tidal increases the chance to avoid negative status by 10%. thats what it sounds like to me and if that is the case that would make demon focus mind better then sage focus mind but sage tidal protection would be better then demon tidal protection. but both would be very slight diffrences.

    Nah, Sins have two stealth skills, Shadow Walk which has the 6 seconds cooldown I believe (this is the one that we always start off with) and Shadow Escape the one that we can use while in combat (this one has the 180 second cooldown not as spammable but gets us out of nasty situations)

    And yes, demon focused mind and tidal protection needs a clearer translation to actually decide..
    You can't see me b:avoid.
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Accel - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Nah, Sins have two stealth skills, Shadow Walk which has the 6 seconds cooldown I believe (this is the one that we always start off with) and Shadow Escape the one that we can use while in combat (this one has the 180 second cooldown not as spammable but gets us out of nasty situations)

    And yes, demon focused mind and tidal protection needs a clearer translation to actually decide..


    like i said it doesnt matter. if you seriously try to go into shadow mode just to wait and rebuff focus and tidal you will be waiting a good 90 seconds or less depending on how much longer u have on the cooldowns. you will not be a threat for as long as u have to wait on your tidal/focus mind that you seem to rely on so much. so ya you can go ahead and do that if u want...

    and just get purged again by the same veno or a diffrent veno soon as u come out of shadow mode lol...

    my point being. dont rely on those 3 skills... theres alot more to sins then just tidal/focus/tele stun... but since going sage increases these 3 skills effects the sage lovers seem to only base there arguments on those 3 skills because its the only 3 that are any good amont the sage skills. this is why i have to face palm at the guys who think sage is good based purely on those 3 skills. and blood paint is useless in pvp since dmg is reduced by a large amount compared to pve. so the 1% increase in blood paint is just a big LOL. demon version isnt much better but the increased invasion helps in pvp alot more then 1% bloodpaint increase would.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yes everyone can use genies so i can also get atk speed from my genie on top of demon sparks atk speed and slip streams atk speed. dont see what your point was with that one.
    why do you keep mentioning sage shadow teleport as if thats your best argument? the stun effect can be negated and we still have demon shadow jump that can be used every 15 seconds and its ranged increased to 35ms.
    my entire point is that sage can be overlooked because its not as efficient as demon. its not good and you have not shown any points to prove that sage is better then demon.
    Look, I don't know how bloody ignorant a person can get. I've said this time and time again, post after post. You simply do-not-know-how-to-read. I didn't say SAGE WAS BETTER THAN DEMON. I've said this so many times - I'm arguing that the Sage path should not be overlooked. Seriously, learn to read before you post, because this is very damn embarrassing. This is just like the time you argued sins can't lock, which you were 100% completely wrong about.
    ntkn wrote: »
    /facepalm. ya i can tell you never pvped in your life or your just ignorant.

    obviously a sin with tidal protection or focused mind is a very very dangerous sin. so how the **** is it wasting purge? especially if the sin is atking you and half of your status effects or a 3rd of your atks are being dodged? explain that logic to me. 2nd, if you cant move and you have anti stun genie skills/apocs why the hell not use them? your going to just stand there and let the sin own u and go on to the next target?

    seriously dont be a dumass. purge them. no one told you you have to use purge mainly and only on barbs -_-. if your really worried about that leave it up to the other venos that are around. its not like your the only veno on the field with the only purge.
    How are you going to call someone ignorant and call them a "dumass" if you don't even possess grammatical skills adequate enough to use "you're" instead of "your" and spell "dumbass" correctly? Please be respectful to others and keep this at a clean, professional level.

    You two say things like "Oh, stun can be negated". Um, there's a counter to just about every status ailment in this game. Does this make them obsolete? NO. Please get that through your heads. You can't just say harhar I can negate stun, this makes Sage tele-stun useless.

    Don't you guys realize how wrong you are? I will quote myself from earlier: "If you want to continue, please carry out your discussion with RoidAbuse (Lv. 97 Barbarian from Sanctuary), Escorian (Lv. 100 BM from Dreamweaver), RRARRRRGGHHH (Lv. 101 Blademaster from Sanctuary), Identical (Lv. 100 Assassin from Lost City), and _Whisper_ (Lv. 80 Assassin from Raging Tide) - All of who have posted on this thread in support of Sage sins and the fact that they shouldn't be simply overlooked."

    There are at least 3 8x sins and 1 10x sin here arguing against you. Can't you guys see that there's a reason for that? At the very least, you should respect their experience. They deserve that much. Stop the bad-mouthing, or you will be reported.
  • Avianna - Raging Tide
    Avianna - Raging Tide Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yes sage can be overlooked. first off look at all of the skills you mentioned and said to be the best points of a sage sin. there either a incapacitating skill or a skill for survivability.


    now look at demon skills. most are aimed at linking them in chains or increading atk rate or dmg. so im going to name the strong points for demon sin.

    demon subsea strike increased the effect by 15 seconds. does less dmg then sage subsea but lasts alot longer. for a class that atks at 5 atks per second each second increase is huge.

    Its Effect TOOOOOOOOO 15 secs not by 15 secs.

    sage raving slash increases atk lvl by 10 and decreases def by 50%. demon raving slash reduces target movement speed by 90%. with demon raving slash and windpush your target mind aswell be standing still.

    40% chance, dont rely on chances.

    demon deaden nervs revives u for 35% HP instead of 20%. thats a 15% increase.

    Charm ticks a charm tick 20% or 35%

    demon ribstrike Reduces targets max HP by 10%. dont even need to be explain why this skill is good.

    Ok good

    slipstream has 30% chance to increase atk rate by 20%. need i say more? sure its only 30% chance but its one of our mainstream skills and helps us get 5atk/sec even easier.

    Chance yet again.........

    power dash 30% chance to increase duration by 3 seconds. again its a bit of a gamble but this skill SHOULD be spammed 100% of the time anyway.

    Like to play poker and are very lucky? All demons skills are chance chance chance chance very unreliable!

    so who wouldnt take these skills over anything sage can do?


    i already said that sage sin is somewhat good. but endgame they are nothing compared to demon version. for all classes theres SOME skills good for sage and SOME skills good for demon. but those very few good skills will not make them better then the opposing side. this is one of those cases. theres SOME good skills for sage sin but those few skills do not make them better then a demon sin.

    demon sin will be outputting alot more DPS then a sage sin. you cant ignore that fact. sage sin has nothing at all to contribute to dps. if anything sage sin focuses more on super spikes and DPH rather then dps.

    Chance is unreliable and all the skills listed above 90% of them have a below 50% chance to actually receive the related effect good luck with that.
  • Avianna - Raging Tide
    Avianna - Raging Tide Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    like i said it doesnt matter. if you seriously try to go into shadow mode just to wait and rebuff focus and tidal you will be waiting a good 90 seconds or less depending on how much longer u have on the cooldowns. you will not be a threat for as long as u have to wait on your tidal/focus mind that you seem to rely on so much. so ya you can go ahead and do that if u want...

    and just get purged again by the same veno or a diffrent veno soon as u come out of shadow mode lol...

    my point being. dont rely on those 3 skills... theres alot more to sins then just tidal/focus/tele stun... but since going sage increases these 3 skills effects the sage lovers seem to only base there arguments on those 3 skills because its the only 3 that are any good amont the sage skills. this is why i have to face palm at the guys who think sage is good based purely on those 3 skills. and blood paint is useless in pvp since dmg is reduced by a large amount compared to pve. so the 1% increase in blood paint is just a big LOL. demon version isnt much better but the increased invasion helps in pvp alot more then 1% bloodpaint increase would.

    Heh TW info is ok but i been to alot of TW's and rarely see one of the 14 squads called purged DD squads, would think they save that for a passing cat barb but if i was a veno and a sin hooped on me for whatever reason i would probably purge them since there already in my face. Would not go out of my way to purge them tho... but outside a TW aspect and to a pvp aspect... how do demon sins deal with HA's? DPS= tick charm DPH= spike thru ticked charm and kill. DPS= pve DPH= pvp are you sure you understand pvp as much as you say?
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    First glance sage seemed terrible... But looking closer with a better translation of the skills i have to say sage really has some nice stuff going om that cant be overlooked.

    The aoe-skills are amazing and i can see sage sins causing a big slaughter house in TW. Popping out of stealth with over + 50 attack lvl (35 from chill + 8 extra from blessing and Diamond of Tiger in gear can prolly get even more than 50 lol) and just aoeing the **** out of people after Bm stunned them.

    I wonder if Raving Slash will stack with Chill of the Dept tho? Than sage sin will do some pretty ridiculous dmg if Chill + Raving stacks and added to daily +8 attack blessing and Diamond of Tiger stones lol. Than a sage sin can have like +77 attack lvls (actually more if its a crazy CS that gets +2 attack lvl stones), totally broken dmg b:cry.

    Demon is pretty amazing to with the stuns, the range ,the dps and the 10% Sharptooth and they will of course get a pretty sexy triple spark. But i think i just kinda realized sage will own to b:surrender
  • Escorian - Dreamweaver
    Escorian - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    -.-; you know that guy keeps saying alot about purging the focus mind off but there is one problem you can actually Avoid the purge at the same chance as the dodge.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ty Nowitsawn

    Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    -.-; you know that guy keeps saying alot about purging the focus mind off but there is one problem you can actually Avoid the purge at the same chance as the dodge.

    focus mind only works with dmg atks. the skill description is wrong. it CAN be purged... what focus mind does is reduce all dmg that was received to 1. it does not do what the actuall description says about avoiding skills.

    tidal protection can also be purged. it will not be avoided.
    Avianna - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Chance is unreliable and all the skills listed above 90% of them have a below 50% chance to actually receive the related effect good luck with that.

    you are missing the entire point. look at the sage version of the skills u mentioned. slipstream being a prime example. its effect is fixed but its USELESS. sage power dash is also chance based so u skiped a duck there. infact there is a few sage skills that are also chance based.

    the only real skills sage has going for them is tidal/focus and tele stun. and maybe sage RDS. but demon tidal/focus is not yet clear and judging by the loose translation it seems that the chance for the skills effect to work for both tidal and focus is increase to 10%. if thats the case then it makes demon focus mind better then sage focus mind but sage tidal would be better then demon tidal. but the differences would be very very slight.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There, three more people saying that Sage shouldn't be overlooked, two of which are 10x's. Are we done yet?

    Btw TigerLily - raving will most likely stack with chill because chill has it's own icon created for it which does 2 things - increase attack level and decrease attack speed.
    So that's 35 + 10 + 8 + 20 = at least 73 attack level (not taking diamonds into account here).
  • PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear
    PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sage Psychic FTW the extra three defence lvl OH COME ON! YESH full of win... If this comes to PWI... then I'm making a better Psy on teh new server b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I'm the only Harpy, Who's Psychic and knows all!b:chuckleb:pleased

    Live Life How You wish To Live It.


    I love PWI, Teh Forums, and Konari b:thanks


    Is currently working on Wizzy (imo better than my Psy)b:surrender name: SaphiraGione
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    wow

    sage sins and psys are gonna hurt like hell

    about time they added some new decent sage classes game was waaay biased to hell b4 now
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    First glance sage seemed terrible... But looking closer with a better translation of the skills i have to say sage really has some nice stuff going om that cant be overlooked.

    The aoe-skills are amazing and i can see sage sins causing a big slaughter house in TW. Popping out of stealth with over + 50 attack lvl (35 from chill + 8 extra from blessing and Diamond of Tiger in gear can prolly get even more than 50 lol) and just aoeing the **** out of people after Bm stunned them.

    I wonder if Raving Slash will stack with Chill of the Dept tho? Than sage sin will do some pretty ridiculous dmg if Chill + Raving stacks and added to daily +8 attack blessing and Diamond of Tiger stones lol. Than a sage sin can have like +77 attack lvls (actually more if its a crazy CS that gets +2 attack lvl stones), totally broken dmg b:cry.

    Demon is pretty amazing to with the stuns, the range ,the dps and the 10% Sharptooth and they will of course get a pretty sexy triple spark. But i think i just kinda realized sage will own to b:surrender

    the problem with that is you will DIE. if you try to aoe anything with -50% defence you WILL die once u take aggro. and the effect only last for 5 seconds. you have to realize the hazards of using that skill.

    with that amount of atk you will steal/take aggro from alot of mobs and could cause a party wipe. if your going to try to aoe like that then you better go prepared with good gear.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    the problem with that is you will DIE. if you try to aoe anything with -50% defence you WILL die once u take aggro. and the effect only last for 5 seconds. you have to realize the hazards of using that skill.

    with that amount of atk you will steal/take aggro from alot of mobs and could cause a party wipe. if your going to try to aoe like that then you better go prepared with good gear.

    Just stop. Alright? You're wrong. That's all there is to it.
    Read the damn post. She specifically said TW. Are there mobs in TW on PVE server :3?
  • Zuyue - Sanctuary
    Zuyue - Sanctuary Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    the problem with that is you will DIE. if you try to aoe anything with -50% defence you WILL die once u take aggro. and the effect only last for 5 seconds. you have to realize the hazards of using that skill.

    with that amount of atk you will steal/take aggro from alot of mobs and could cause a party wipe. if your going to try to aoe like that then you better go prepared with good gear.

    Her AoE was described for TW not mob fighting she said AoE after BM stun with +77 or more attack lvls on top of 50% amp dmg from sage sub strike. Your looking at +77 or more lvls of attack on top of sage 50% sub strike then land a massive sage 430% weapon dmg AoE. :D
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Just stop. Alright? You're wrong. That's all there is to it.
    Read the damn post. She specifically said TW. Are there mobs in TW on PVE server :3?

    ok so what? its the same in TW. -50% defense will hurt you and the range of a sins aoe is very short. you wont get as many ppl as you think you will get in the aoe radius. and it will be one short burst seeing as how its effect last only 5 seconds and both skills have a cooldown of 8 seconds.

    you would first have to use raving slash on someone and then immediately use earthen rift right after wards. and the person you target with raving slash best have as many ppl in the the aoe radius around him as possible.

    at best the skill will only tick a few ppls charm at best. you honestly have no clue and no experience on TW do you? the skill is not spammable. it can only be used once per 8 seconds. if you go around doing this you might one hit a few squishies but thats all you will do. but so what? you can one hit squishes with or without raving slash
    Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Her AoE was described for TW not mob fighting she said AoE after BM stun with +77 or more attack lvls on top of 50% amp dmg from sage sub strike.

    like i said at best it will one hit maybe a few squishies and tick a few heavies charm. but you are forgetting how short the aoe radius is, the prep time to get that high spike, and how everyone is on constant move in TWs. what she is saying will not work in any real situation.
  • Escorian - Dreamweaver
    Escorian - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    ok so what? its the same in TW. -50% defense will hurt you and the range of a sins aoe is very short. you wont get as many ppl as you think you will get in the aoe radius. and it will be one short burst seeing as how its effect last only 5 seconds and both skills have a cooldown of 8 seconds.

    you would first have to use raving slash on someone and then immediately use earthen rift right after wards. and the person you target with raving slash best have as many ppl in the the aoe radius around him as possible.

    at best the skill will only tick a few ppls charm at best. you honestly have no clue and no experience on TW do you? the skill is not spammable. it can only be used once per 8 seconds. if you go around doing this you might one hit a few squishies but thats all you will do. but so what? you can one hit squishes with or without raving slash

    -.-; you rage too much its a game people will play how they play your fighting like everyone is telling you that you have to go sage. just calm down
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ty Nowitsawn

    Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    you honestly have no clue and no experience on TW do you? the skill is not spammable. it can only be used once per 8 seconds.
    Obviously...more than you. At least I know there aren't mobs in TW...b:chuckle

    Let's just ignore this guy. He's too close-minded to see anything past his own flawed opinion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so_sHsh-DCU
    IJS.

    Happy 100th post ('.__.)
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    ok so what? its the same in TW. -50% defense will hurt you and the range of a sins aoe is very short. you wont get as many ppl as you think you will get in the aoe radius. and it will be one short burst seeing as how its effect last only 5 seconds and both skills have a cooldown of 8 seconds.

    you would first have to use raving slash on someone and then immediately use earthen rift right after wards. and the person you target with raving slash best have as many ppl in the the aoe radius around him as possible.

    at best the skill will only tick a few ppls charm at best. you honestly have no clue and no experience on TW do you? the skill is not spammable. it can only be used once per 8 seconds. if you go around doing this you might one hit a few squishies but thats all you will do. but so what? you can one hit squishes with or without raving slash

    Dunno about you but when i use massive aoe in TW i pop 12 sec immune pots (like everyone else) so the -50% defense really wont matter.

    Im pretty sure you will deal more dmg than just tick some charm if you have over +70 attack lvl and people will always cluster up in TW even tho they know better. We still dont know what base phy dmg and % of weapon damage the lvl 11 skills will have so its kinda hard to say how hard you hit will highly refined daggers.

    Using Bramble Rage with over +70 attack lvls after using Subsea Strike for 50% amp seems pretty fun tho b:dirty.
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Obviously...more than you. At least I know there aren't mobs in TW...b:chuckle

    Let's just ignore this guy. He's too close-minded to see anything but his own flawed opinion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so_sHsh-DCU
    IJS.


    you obviously dont since you have gave no valid reason to why a sage sin would be any good at all what so ever in tws. i have already proven why the aoe wont work in tws and why most of the other "good" sage skills wont work. what reason do you have that sage will be any good at all? there is none and you yourself have not provided a single thing to prove otherwise.

    your also forgetting the fact that w/e group your trying to aoe would also be a prime target for ranged aoes from wizzards and archers. putting u right in the middle of it.
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    Dunno about you but when i use massive aoe in TW i pop 12 sec immune pots (like everyone else) so the -50% defense really wont matter.

    Im pretty sure you will deal more dmg than just tick some charm if you have over +70 attack lvl and people will always cluster up in TW even tho they know better. We still dont know what base phy dmg and % of weapon damage the lvl 11 skills will have so its kinda hard to say how hard you hit will highly refined daggers.

    Using Bramble Rage with over +70 attack lvls after using Subsea Strike for 50% amp seems pretty fun tho b:dirty.


    your a melee class. you will be aoeing as a melee class. the group your trying to aoe will put u as a prime target for the ranged aoers which have bigger aoes. you have a long set up time to make the most out of that combo while ranged aoers only have to push a button. you really think you wont be noticed?

    honestly it only looks good on paper. but have you actually tried to aoe as a sin in tw? it does not work the way people think it works...
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    there is none and you yourself have not provided a single thing to prove otherwise.
    I think I have proven your arrogance. There are no mobs in TW.
    ntkn wrote: »
    have already proven why the aoe wont work in tws and why most of the other "good" sage skills wont work.
    You have proven nothing but (read above).

    Almost everyone here, with extremely high level characters, is arguing against you. Why can't you accept the fact that Sage sins shouldn't be overlooked?
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Except your arrogance?


    You have proven nothing but (read above).

    Almost everyone here, with extremely high level characters, is arguing against you. Why can't you accept the fact that Sage sins shouldn't be overlooked?


    i seriously have no way of explaining it anymore then i already have to some of you guys. but ill try to explain it in another way...

    ill explain it this way. think of sage and demon as 2 glasses of water. you are thirsty as hell for some water after a big sports game. you go to the refreshment table and you see 2 glasses of water. glass 1 (sage) is a full glass of water that looks good at first glance but has some impurities in it. glass 2 (demon) is also a full glass of water and also looks good at first glance but it has no impurities in it. when you drink glass 1 it when it first hits your tounge it tastes good and refeshing but going down it has a very nasty and bitter after taste from the impurities.

    you drink glass 2 and it tastes good and refreshing when it first hits your tongue and its good going down. which glass would you choose? would you over look glass 1 and choose glass 2?

    sage looks good at first glance but once you break it down and compare it to everything demon sin has to offer you can see why you can over look it. also if you choose sage you will be limited to purely spiking and skill spamming. with demon you can still effectively do both DPS and do high spiking/aoeing.
  • Killerbmw - Harshlands
    Killerbmw - Harshlands Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    why did it take so long to sart thisb:sad
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Most people said that Demon looks better at first glance, like TigerLily.
    So. . .your analogy pretty much. . .um. . .yeah, just No.
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Most people said that Demon looks better at first glance, like TigerLily.
    So. . .your analogy pretty much. . .um. . .yeah, just No.

    ... you really dont pay attention do you? i said BOTH sage and demon look good at first glance. just like the 2 glasses of water. but once you break them down you will see that glass 2 (demon) is tastier then glass 1 (sage).

    you are limited to what you can do as sage sin. CoD reduces your atk speed by 100%. you will be limited to only spiking since sage has nothing to offer for DPS. most of its skills are for hard spike dmg. demon however you can DPS and you can DPH if need be.

    seriously you really have to think of something else other then "zomg i can get +77 atk lvl with 50% dmg amp and super spike ONE group of pplz in tw every 8 seconds! i can maybe even 1 hit pplz to!" "but oh knows what will i do during the cooldown!?!?" "oh ****! subsea is 30 second cooldown..." "nvm about the every 8 seconds guys!"

    honestly is that all your going to do as sage...? spike aoe one small group of ppl every few seconds? seriously?
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    ... you really dont pay attention do you? i said BOTH sage and demon look good at first glance. just like the 2 glasses of water. but once you break them down you will see that glass 2 (demon) is tastier then glass 1 (sage).
    Your analogy just doesn't work. Please stop trying.
    ntkn wrote: »
    you are limited to what you can do as sage sin. CoD reduces your atk speed by 100%. you will be limited to only spiking since sage has nothing to offer for DPS. most of its skills are for hard spike dmg. demon however you can DPS and you can DPH if need be.
    Um, who would auto attack with Chill on in the first place? You can DPS and DPH as a Sage sin too... what's your point?
    ntkn wrote: »
    seriously you really have to think of something else other then "zomg i can get +77 atk lvl with 50% dmg amp and super spike ONE group of pplz in tw every 8 seconds! i can maybe even 1 hit pplz to!" "but oh knows what will i do during the cooldown!?!?" "oh ****! subsea is 30 second cooldown..." "nvm about the every 8 seconds guys!"
    honestly is that all your going to do as sage...?
    Right, because 50% AMP with Rift (430% weapon dmg combined with 90% extra damage increase from Sage Dagger Devotion) under 77+ attack level followed by a dex genie's B. Rage all under P. Dash critical rate is **** and should be overlooked right? =Sigh=, seriously, get a clue.

    We have thought of many other extremely valid points. BP to 3%. Focused Mind nullifying every 1 in 3 hits (including magic). And if you can't see the utility in a 30 second cooldown Shadowport, then you're hopeless.

    Stop raging. Almost everyone's against you here. Sage should not be overlooked, end of story.
  • Escorian - Dreamweaver
    Escorian - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    >< ok i think you all are severely missing the point here there is one major point and the point is you have to get these skill books before you can do anything so it doesnt matter either way until the books are implemented for all we know they might make a token quest for the TB skills.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ty Nowitsawn

    Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ntkn wrote: »
    honestly is that all your going to do as sage...? spike aoe one small group of ppl every few seconds? seriously?

    Yes.

    QQQQ

    Wait.. spike EVERY FEW SECONDS? And it's AOE too?
    Whoa.. OP'ed. need nerf plz.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • ntkn
    ntkn Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Your analogy just doesn't work. Please stop trying.


    Um, who would auto attack with Chill on in the first place?


    Right, because 50% AMP with Rift (430% weapon dmg combined with 90% extra damage increase from Sage Dagger Devotion) under 77+ attack level followed by a dex genie's B. Rage all under P. Dash critical rate is **** and should be overlooked right? =Sigh=, seriously, get a clue.

    We have thought of many other extremely valid points. BP to 3%. Focused Mind nullifying every 1 in 3 hits (including magic). And if you can't see the utility in a 30 second cooldown Shadowport, then you're hopeless.

    Stop raging. Almost everyone's against you here. Sage should not be overlooked, end of story.

    please dont talk about BP in pvp. im not going to try to explain how worthless BP is in pvp.

    your ignorance is amazing. so ****ing what if you can get that much power in one atk if your limited by the cooldowns and range of aoe? raving slash which last 5 seconds. thats it. you will get 1 aoe off in that 5 seconds. that means you will have to prep power dash and subsea strike BEFORE you do raving slash. once you get everything up and running you have to then use raving slash because it only last a short 5 seconds so it will have to be the last atk on the chain. not to mention that you have to do all this on a target that is close to you and i doubt he will let u do all this to him without him doing something about it. if that one person moves out side of the aoe clump your targetting then it will be a waste.

    and assuming u do get it off you will have to wait 30 seconds for PD and subsea. as a result that high spike will only go off once every 30 seconds while u do the less powerful version once every 8 seconds.

    its only a once every few seconds combo chain and you think someone is going to sit there and let you do all these chains on them?

    and did you not see what i said earlier about demon version of focus mind and tidal? honestly your hopeless. but hey, go to TW and do a variation of your little combo in a TW and see how well it works. be sure to fraps it and put a link to youtube so you wont sprout BS. all you have to do is even try to aoe ONCE in a TW as a sin and see how this super spike from sage wont work.

    anyway im done arguing here its pointless. pretty soon we will be hearing ppl QQ about going sage and wanting a class reversion. but w/e. do what you want just dont QQ when its over and done with.

    peace

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