Assassin and Psychic Sage/ Demon Skills

Identical - Lost City

大地裂纹 - Earthern Rift
Sage= Damage Increased to 430%
Demon= 20% chance to gain 30 chi
匕首精通 - Dagger Devotion
Sage= Weapon Damage increased to 90%
Demon= Addtional 1% crit
分水刺击 - Subsea Strike
Sage= Amplification increased to 50%
Demon= Duration increased by 7s
强行遁隐 - Shadow Escape
Sage= Dispells all negative effects
Demon= Reduces cooldown by 15s
遁隐术 - Shadow Walk
Sage= Consume 3 less mana per second
Demon= Reduce casting by .5s
嗜血咒 - Bloodpaint
Sage= Addtional 1% bloodsuck
Demon= Increases evasion
如影随形 - Shadow Jump
Sage= 10 less chi cost to use
Demon= increase range to 35m
如来天心咒 - Deaden Nerves
Sage= Increate duration by 30s
Demon= Receive 35% hp instead of 20%
狂狼印 - Wolf Emblem
Sage= 30minute duration and for 8 seconds rage is 20%
Demon= 40% rage instead of 20%
金刚轮印咒 - Focused Mind
Sage= +8% dodge chance
Demon= 10% version of Tidal Protection
三世明王咒 - Tidal Protection
Sage=+16% evade chance
Demon=10% version of Focused Mind
连击 - Twin Strike
Sage= 20% chance to gain 20chi
Demon= casting reduced by .1
斩首 - Headhunt
Sage= 50% chance to consume 1 spark
Demon= +1s of stun
深度冰刺 - Chill of the Deep
Sage= +5 atk lvls
Demon= 70% speed reduction
放血 - Puncture Wound
Sage= 20% more bleed dmg
Demon= reduce bleed duration by 3s
断喉斩 - Throat Cut
Sage= 25% chance to not consume a spark
Demon= 25% chance to deal more damage
斩杀 - SlipStream Strike
Sage= reduce cooldown by 1s
Demon= 30% chance to increase atk speed by 20%
钻心袖箭 - Knife Throw
Sage= reduce cooldown by 5s
Demon= 100% chance to cancel channeling
背水一战 - Inner Harmony
Sage= 30% chance to gain addtional 1 spark
Demon= 10% hp recovered
狂乱斩 - Raving Slash
Sage=+10 atk lvls, reduces targets defenses by 50% for 5s
Demon= 40% chance to reduce targets movespeed by 90% for 5s
致命扫击 - Ribstrike
Sage= Reduce target's attack speed by +15%
Demon= for 10 seconds reduce targets hp by 10%
深刺 - Deep Sting
Sage= reduce cooldown by 2s
Demon= increase sleep by 3s
疾风行 - Wind Push
Sage= reduce cooldown by 10s
Demon= increase duration by 3s
人鱼变 - Tide Form
Sage= increase swim speed by 20%
Demon= increase defense level by 3
百步神行诀 - Shadow Teleport
Sage= reduce cooldown by 40s
Demon= stun increased by 2s
强冲刺杀 - Power Dash
Sage=50% chance to consume 1 spark
Demon= 30% chance to increase duration 3s
绊腿斩 - Tackling Slash
Sage= paralyze for +2s
Demon= Reduces movespeed by 50% for 20s
龙腾斩 - Rising Dragon Strike
Sage= gain 180chi
Demon= cooldown reduced by 5s
迷踪乱步诀 - Maze Step
Sage= increase duration by 2s
Demon= 附加效果闪避提升80%，持续10s I think it casts a focused mind that lasts for 10seconds

here is a more accurate translation...

_Whisper_ - Raging Tide

Ussichu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demon has longer stun locks, i love it. Sage............. its better than a sage archer at least

The only thing i love about sage sins that makes me envious is the purify shadow escape. But with rage damage buff decreasing to 20%.... complete turn off

rib strike + longer stuns + longer range teleport + 100% interrupt with 35m range + longer sleep (which lets you set up longer while the target is asleep for 8 seconds) + 40% rage damage boost... those are about the most important skills anyways. sage effects are not as noticeable..

50% amp for sage, but i bet demon will be 40% amp that's 7 seconds longer.

EDIT: looking further i see sages have better defensive skills... with a better tidal protection and focused mind while demon is clearly destructive.

I won't say sage is bad, but a sin's job is to kill as fast as possible not survive.

Of course this is all speculation. In practice we will all have a better idea. No point in arguing sage/demon is better just cause this says that.

Holy **** Demon, all im GOing to say. Im not giving away my secrets

Identical - Lost City

_Whisper_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Holy **** Demon, all im GOing to say. Im not giving away my secrets

i agree that sage is better but, the sparks have not been implemented yet... so don't jump to conclusion thinking they will be the same.

Crypsis - Lost City

Sage does a few nice skills where they beat demon. But in all you also have to take into consideration that demon will have demon spark which normally is like 25% extra attack speed for 15 sec, sage skills needs to be prettty effing amazing to compete with that.

Demon also gets their own Sharpen tooth arrow, Demon gets a skill similar to quick shoot with 20% attack speed. Demon also gets longer stuns/sleep and more range and more crit and will have 240% rage dmg.

Sage Shadow Escape is pretty amazing with the purify, same with Raving Slash that gives a 50% armor break (alltho i never use that skill). Sage seems more of a Chill of the Deep -> skill spammer > 1-3 shoot type it seems. While demon is more dps and chain stuns.

I really doubt many sins will go sage, unless the sage triple spark will have a better mod than dmg reduction like bms/archers and barbs get. If sage triple spark adds more attack or attack speed it might be a very good option but not otherwise.

Identical - Lost City

Crypsis - Lost City wrote: »

Sage does a few nice skills where they beat demon. But in all you also have to take into consideration that demon will have demon spark which normally is like 25% extra attack speed for 15 sec, sage skills needs to be prettty effing amazing to compete with that.

Demon also gets their own Sharpen tooth arrow, Demon gets a skill similar to quick shoot with 20% attack speed. Demon also gets longer stuns/sleep and more range and more crit and will have 240% rage dmg.

Sage Shadow Escape is pretty amazing with the purify, same with Raving Slash that gives a 50% armor break (alltho i never use that skill). Sage seems more of a Chill of the Deep -> skill spammer > 1-3 shoot type it seems. While demon is more dps and chain stuns.

I really doubt many sins will go sage, unless the sage triple spark will have a better mod than dmg reduction like bms/archers and barbs get. If sage triple spark adds more attack or attack speed it might be a very good option but not otherwise.

ok sharptooth from 1 skill that is only 10% when sage deals that dmg back quick or you can get a genie to sharptooth for 13%....
Another reason why i like sage because all their skills are spec'd for damage dealing.
Demon is more spec'd for stun/seal and survival. If you think about it even though demons have more atk speed and crit dmg. Sage has skills that increase attack levels by up to about 45+ if you do it right then they also have their 30min rage buff so thats even more damage and then they got skills that give them chi as well as their 89 culti chi skill. Their inner harmony gives them 3 sparks basically so they can spam 3 sparks as they please and they also take less chi for skills.
Demons have more survival skills like their focused mind is a combination of tidal protect and vice versa. Their skills all have decreased casting and their inner harmony heals them. Same with their deaden nerves giving more hp back. but other than all survival and stopping skills they can't really deal damage. They're built more for stun locking/sealing/sleeping/slowing and catching targets and not being able to get killed while they do so.

Kyourimaru - Lost City

Ascii - Harshlands wrote: »

Added corrected demon version for white Voodoo and its OP Lol b:shocked

your joking right? xD

Alliptica - Raging Tide

yay finally got our skills

Ussichu - Sanctuary

Identical - Lost City wrote: »

ok sharptooth from 1 skill that is only 10% when sage deals that dmg back quick or you can get a genie to sharptooth for 13%....
Another reason why i like sage because all their skills are spec'd for damage dealing.
Demon is more spec'd for stun/seal and survival. If you think about it even though demons have more atk speed and crit dmg. Sage has skills that increase attack levels by up to about 45+ if you do it right then they also have their 30min rage buff so thats even more damage and then they got skills that give them chi as well as their 89 culti chi skill. Their inner harmony gives them 3 sparks basically so they can spam 3 sparks as they please and they also take less chi for skills.
Demons have more survival skills like their focused mind is a combination of tidal protect and vice versa. Their skills all have decreased casting and their inner harmony heals them. Same with their deaden nerves giving more hp back. but other than all survival and stopping skills they can't really deal damage. They're built more for stun locking/sealing/sleeping/slowing and catching targets and not being able to get killed while they do so.

Hmmm... i'm guessing majority of demon sins plan to get 5 APS at some point which is why they don't think CoD being a useful buff for 35 attack + the raving slash thing o-o

still sage's rage boost being reduced to 20% irks me >.< I love demon's 40% rage boost ^_^ that + 5 APS + demon spark + power dash = probably the best DPS ever (set up with sleep which lasts 8 seconds now or stealth)


Speccing a genie to reduce HP by 13% would require losing some other good genie skills such as bramble rage

zikler11

hey identical u noob , translate the psy too tthk u very much.

skyxiii

I'm just wondering...did the people who are claiming sage sins suck right off the bat even take the time to read the skills thoroughly?

Sage Rift is better.
Sage Subsea amps to 50%.
So I guess one can say sage aoes are better in general.
Focused Mind goes to 33% chance to nullify damage. 1 in every 3 attacks does 1 damage to you O.O?
Tidal goes to 66% chance to negate status ailments.
I know a reduction for 20% Emblem is unattractive, but guys, the buff lasts for 30 minutes now. You wont have to wait that 30 second window to recast it ever again. . . it will always be on, just like Bloodpaint.
Sage Chill wins. You don't even want to auto attack with it on.
Bloodpaint to 3%!!!

Sage Slash is amazing. +10 attack level, 50% armor break. . .You guys asked for a way around HA right? This is pretty much the best they gave us for our HA matchups.
Shadow Escape purifies.
Shadow Teleport . . . cooldown reduced from 180 to 30 seconds? Christ. Are you kidding me? That throws 83% of its original cooldown time out the window.

Demon Tackling is kinda . I don't even know if I would want to get it if I went demon.
It would also kind of suck to waste a spark on Maze Steps and have it fail :P.
But yeah, both paths have good upgrades. Demon stun and rib are great, but don't throw Sage out the door just yet.

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

went sage rawr

Enjoy one of the most abused skills of the game at a 30 second cooldown my friend.

_Whisper_ - Raging Tide

skyxiii wrote: »

I'm just wondering...did the people who are claiming sage sins suck right off the bat even take the time to read the skills thoroughly?

Sage Rift is better.
Sage Subsea amps to 50%.
So I guess one can say sage aoes are better in general.
Focused Mind goes to 33% chance to nullify damage. 1 in every 3 attacks does 1 damage to you O.O?
Tidal goes to 66% chance to negate status ailments.
I know a reduction for 20% Emblem is unattractive, but guys, the buff lasts for 30 minutes now. You wont have to wait that 30 second window to recast it ever again. . . it will always be on, just like Bloodpaint.
Sage Chill wins. You don't even want to auto attack with it on.
Bloodpaint to 3%!!!

Sage Slash is amazing. +10 attack level, 50% armor break. . .You guys asked for a way around HA right? This is pretty much the best they gave us for our HA matchups.
Shadow Escape purifies.
Shadow Teleport . . . cooldown reduced from 180 to 30 seconds? Christ. Are you kidding me? That throws 83% of its original cooldown time out the window.

Demon Tackling is kinda . I don't even know if I would want to get it if I went demon.
It would also kind of suck to waste a spark on Maze Steps and have it fail :P.
But yeah, both paths have good upgrades. Demon stun and rib are great, but don't throw Sage out the door just yet.


Enjoy one of the most abused skills of the game at a 30 second cooldown my friend.

SHHHH let them keep thinking Demon is the best lmao O yah what about the Awareness/Cat-like thread skills? DO they get any upgrades?

Swaze - Sanctuary

My 2 cents:

Assassins = squishies melee class in game. The way I pvp, is to be unseen, go in quick, get out. How do I achieve this? Spike damage. Massive spike damage. CoD + spark + tangling..but it has to be quick, cause I am squishy as hell. So I don't see why people are so swooning over 5 attackspeed ? DPS isnt the answer, we're not a fist bm with their def and hp to get away with it.


well. once these pesky skills come out, we'll see ^^



EDIT: For the sage raving slash. The translations and all seemed a bit obscure and from what I figured going to their actual site (i used google translate so this my all be pooey),

Raving slash = mini frenzy? 10 attk lvl ...but in return, ur def goes down 50%? kinda like 1/2 of genie skill frenzy which gives 20 attk lvl, 100% def decrease


but idk, identical seems to be on top of his game and i hope he's right...cause that skill would be beast :P

Xeiren - Heavens Tear

Ugh, sage sounds much better for psychic atm. But I wanted demon glacial shards. b:cry

Maiya - Lost City

Are you certain that it's reduced TO 30 seconds, or reduced BY 30 seconds. A lot of skills for other classes have a cooldown reduction, but many fail to notice it's by, not to.

Asurr - Heavens Tear

skyxiii wrote: »

I'm just wondering...did the people who are claiming sage sins suck right off the bat even take the time to read the skills thoroughly?

Sage Rift is better.
Sage Subsea amps to 50%.
So I guess one can say sage aoes are better in general.
Focused Mind goes to 33% chance to nullify damage. 1 in every 3 attacks does 1 damage to you O.O?
Tidal goes to 66% chance to negate status ailments.
I know a reduction for 20% Emblem is unattractive, but guys, the buff lasts for 30 minutes now. You wont have to wait that 30 second window to recast it ever again. . . it will always be on, just like Bloodpaint.
Sage Chill wins. You don't even want to auto attack with it on.
Bloodpaint to 3%!!!

Sage Slash is amazing. +10 attack level, 50% armor break. . .You guys asked for a way around HA right? This is pretty much the best they gave us for our HA matchups.
Shadow Escape purifies.
Shadow Teleport . . . cooldown reduced from 180 to 30 seconds? Christ. Are you kidding me? That throws 83% of its original cooldown time out the window.

Demon Tackling is kinda . I don't even know if I would want to get it if I went demon.
It would also kind of suck to waste a spark on Maze Steps and have it fail :P.
But yeah, both paths have good upgrades. Demon stun and rib are great, but don't throw Sage out the door just yet.


Enjoy one of the most abused skills of the game at a 30 second cooldown my friend.

sage sins do have some very good effects but overall from both a pvp and pve standpoint demon is better. the sage versions of rift and subsea would be good for aoeing mobs in rebirth or something but thats about it. the 15 second increase on demon version of subsea should allow for more hits on the amped target and should balance out.

the sage version seems to aim for more super spikes in dmg and slightly more added survivability while demon seems to aim for higher dps and more focus on keeping the target incapacitated with the increased stun durations and the 10% decreased maxed hp debuff.

sage raving slash wont really help against HAs. the 50% decrease in hp will hurt u more then the +10 atk lvl against HAs. HAs hit very hard against sins which are squishy so why have them hit u even harder? the 50% decrease in defence is like giving ur opponent a 50% atk boost against u.

and as for wolf emblem demon is better. first off all what fight will last for 30 mins in pvp? if a fight last u that long then something is seriously seriously wrong and u both have God mode **** or something enabled. in pve its still better because demon sins WILL get 5atk/sec. thats not even a argument anymore. so the 40% wolf emblem will beat sage version wolf emblem.

so imho demon will be better for both pvp and pve. sage is good but its not as effective as demon.

also does anyone know if demon ribstrike effect stacks with sharp tooth arrows effect? if it did that would make taking down bosses alot easier...


so

skyxiii

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sage sins do have some very good effects but overall from both a pvp and pve standpoint demon is better. the sage versions of rift and subsea would be good for aoeing mobs in rebirth or something but thats about it. the 15 second increase on demon version of subsea should allow for more hits on the amped target and should balance out.

the sage version seems to aim for more super spikes in dmg and slightly more added survivability while demon seems to aim for higher dps and more focus on keeping the target incapacitated with the increased stun durations and the 10% decreased maxed hp debuff.

so imho demon will be better for both pvp and pve. sage is good but its not as effective as demon.

also does anyone know if demon ribstrike effect stacks with sharp tooth arrows effect? if it did that would make taking down bosses alot easier...

You did not address Raving Slash armor break, Shadow Escape purify, or S. Teleport's 30 second cooldown. These were the strongest points in my post.

Please don't try to argue against me again, like you did about Sins not being capable of producing a lock. I proved you very wrong on that. You should understand that I'm not arguing that Sage is better than Demon, but rather that Sage should not be overlooked in the manner that you are currently doing.

Asurr - Heavens Tear

skyxiii wrote: »

You did not address Raving Slash armor break, Shadow Escape purify, or S. Teleport's 30 second cooldown. These were the strongest points in my post.

i re edited my post. anyway in the edit i mentioned that sage raving slash will do more harm then good. it is a good effect dont get me wrong but the 50% decrease in defense is just bad. we are already squishy and dont need to be any more squishier then we already are. also raving slash begs to be used with CoD. so since your using CoD to make the most out of raving slash your speed AND defense will be drastically decreased. that is not a good thing. 2nd it only last for 5 seconds so u might get 1 atk off while its active.


shadow escapes purify is very good but its still a good sacrifice to go demon instead of sage. after all once in shadow escape as demon we can wait till any negative effects go away or use a genie skill/apoc or something to get rid of it. its a good skill but not needed.

sage shadow teleport again good skill but it does not factor in to the overall better killing speed a demon sin can do. so it is still good to sacrifice that to go demon. non of the sage skills can amount to what demon sins can do.

this is why people are saying sage sins will be almost non existant compared to demon sins. demon skills outmatch sage skills. there good but there not that good.

the only thing im really envious about with sage is the sage dagger devotion. i think honestly out of all the sage skills the sage dagger devotion is the best... but that still wont matter because of the insane dps a demon sin will be outputting.

skyxiii

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i re edited my post. anyway in the edit i mentioned that sage raving slash will do more harm then good. it is a good effect dont get me wrong but the 50% decrease in defense is just bad. we are already squishy and dont need to be any more squishier then we already are. also raving slash begs to be used with CoD. so since your using CoD to make the most out of raving slash your speed AND defense will be drastically decreased. that is not a good thing. 2nd it only last for 5 seconds so u might get 1 atk off while its active.

Sorry, it was just brought to my attention that Sage Raving reduces your own defense by 50%, not your opponents. But yeah, in 5 seconds you can get off at least 2 attacks, just for your information. And the major usage of Raving Slash is not to just use it and pop a skill or two. It's to incorporate it into your lock-combos to increase the damage output.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

shadow escapes purify is very good but its still a good sacrifice to go demon instead of sage. after all once in shadow escape as demon we can wait till any negative effects go away or use a genie skill/apoc or something to get rid of it. its a good skill but not needed.

Many would disagree with you on that one.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sage shadow teleport again good skill but it does not factor in to the overall better killing speed a demon sin can do. so it is still good to sacrifice that to go demon. non of the sage skills can amount to what demon sins can do.

A "good" skill? It's one of sin's most feared skills..., and one of the best in the entire game. A 35 meter range instant teleport-to-the-enemy-and-stun-them put at a 30 second cooldown. . .is only "good"?

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

this is why people are saying sage sins will be almost non existant compared to demon sins. demon skills outmatch sage skills. there good but there not that good.

I just really wish you would stop saying these things like they are facts. "the overall better killing speed of a demon sin can do" -? You need to understand that even though sins Wolf Emblem goes to 40% rage addition, Sage Emblem lasts for 30 minutes. A demon sin has to wait 30 second intermissions before recasting Emblem again, while a Sage sin will always have it on. Also, in about 3 minutes, a demon sin can utilize his tele-stun twice. In the same time, a Sage sin can do it 6 times.
You can't overlook Sage because it helps assassins maintain consistent fighting status (which is reinforced by sage focused mind's 33% damage redux chance), among other things, which is critical in TW and situations where you aren't allowed the time to rebuff every 30 seconds. This is all coming from a person who always considered demon to be superior to sage for the majority of the classes.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

skyxiii wrote: »

Sorry, it was just brought to my attention that Sage Raving reduces your own defense by 50%, not your opponents. But yeah, in 5 seconds you can get off at least 2 attacks, just for your information. And the major usage of Raving Slash is not to just use it and pop a skill or two. It's to incorporate it into your lock-combos to increase the damage output.


Many would disagree with you on that one.


A "good" skill? It's one of sin's most feared skills..., and one of the best in the entire game. A 35 meter range instant teleport-to-the-enemy-and-stun-them put at a 30 second cooldown. . .is only "good"?



I just really wish you would stop saying these things like they are facts. "the overall better killing speed of a demon sin can do" -? You need to understand that even though sins Wolf Emblem goes to 40% rage addition, Sage Emblem lasts for 30 minutes. A demon sin has to wait 30 second intermissions before recasting Emblem again, while a Sage sin will always have it on. Also, in about 3 minutes, a demon sin can utilize his tele-stun twice. In the same time, a Sage sin can do it 6 times.
You can't overlook Sage because it helps assassins maintain consistent fighting status (which is reinforced by sage focused mind's 33% damage redux chance), among other things, which is critical in TW and situations where you aren't allowed the time to rebuff every 30 seconds. This is all coming from a person who always considered demon to be superior to sage for the majority of the classes.

WIN~

Sage sin sounds a lot better for PK.
Demon sin sounds more PvE.

Sorry, don't mind me. I'm just a noob without a sin.
I'm just looking at skill descriptions and basing my opinion on that.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

skyxiii wrote: »

I just really wish you would stop saying these things like they are facts. "the overall better killing speed of a demon sin can do" -? You need to understand that even though sins Wolf Emblem goes to 40% rage addition, Sage Emblem lasts for 30 minutes. A demon sin has to wait 30 second intermissions before recasting Emblem again, while a Sage sin will always have it on. .

oh uhm u wont need 30 mins anyway so far sins pretty much kill in less than 5-15 sec bm too. the well geared sins. overall dd dmg is the same as u jsut keep recast and its better for pvp as a 1v1 not gonna laste that long lolz. cos thats extra 20% might be enough finish that "dam xxx hp" in which u would not haeve critted as sage. the IF thing.


both sides good. but ay what u want i prfer demon tbh. havent done the quest. waiting for final pwi releases skills, as might chnage when they translate.. or bug.. lol

Asurr - Heavens Tear

yes sage can be overlooked. first off look at all of the skills you mentioned and said to be the best points of a sage sin. there either a incapacitating skill or a skill for survivability.


now look at demon skills. most are aimed at linking them in chains or increading atk rate or dmg. so im going to name the strong points for demon sin.

demon subsea strike increased the effect by 15 seconds. does less dmg then sage subsea but lasts alot longer. for a class that atks at 5 atks per second each second increase is huge.

sage raving slash increases atk lvl by 10 and decreases def by 50%. demon raving slash reduces target movement speed by 90%. with demon raving slash and windpush your target mind aswell be standing still.

demon deaden nervs revives u for 35% HP instead of 20%. thats a 15% increase.

demon ribstrike Reduces targets max HP by 10%. dont even need to be explain why this skill is good.

slipstream has 30% chance to increase atk rate by 20%. need i say more? sure its only 30% chance but its one of our mainstream skills and helps us get 5atk/sec even easier.

power dash 30% chance to increase duration by 3 seconds. again its a bit of a gamble but this skill SHOULD be spammed 100% of the time anyway.

so who wouldnt take these skills over anything sage can do?

i already said that sage sin is somewhat good. but endgame they are nothing compared to demon version. for all classes theres SOME skills good for sage and SOME skills good for demon. but those very few good skills will not make them better then the opposing side. this is one of those cases. theres SOME good skills for sage sin but those few skills do not make them better then a demon sin.

demon sin will be outputting alot more DPS then a sage sin. you cant ignore that fact. sage sin has nothing at all to contribute to dps. if anything sage sin focuses more on super spikes and DPH rather then dps.

skyxiii

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

oh uhm u wont need 30 mins anyway so far sins pretty much kill in less than 5-15 sec bm too. the well geared sins. overall dd dmg is the same as u jsut keep recast and its better for pvp as a 1v1 not gonna laste that long lolz. cos thats extra 20% might be enough finish that "dam xxx hp" in which u would not haeve critted as sage. the IF thing.

Here's the thing Heartstone, a lot of Perfect World's PVP isn't 1v1.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yes sage can be overlooked.

After reading your first sentence, I already decided that it's not worth my time to argue with you. But just for the sake of showing you how wrong you are...

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

now look at demon skills. most are aimed at linking them in chains or increading atk rate or dmg.

Wrong. There is one single skill in demon sin that increases your attack rate. How is 1 skill = most? If you're going to link skills in chains, then Chill is the way to go, which sage supports more than demon does okay? Furthermore, Sage S.Teleport has a 30 second cooldown, which also supports chaining.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

demon subsea strike increased the effect by 15 seconds. does less dmg then sage subsea but lasts alot longer. for a class that atks at 5 atks per second each second increase is huge.

Because it's so damn easy and cheap to get 5 aps.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sage raving slash increases atk lvl by 10 and decreases def by 50%. demon raving slash reduces target movement speed by 90%. with demon raving slash and windpush your target mind aswell be standing still.

Buddy, most real world PVP happens in the air, where slow is negated.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

slipstream has 30% chance to increase atk rate by 20%. need i say more? sure its only 30% chance but its one of our mainstream skills and helps us get 5atk/sec even easier.

The fact that you think slipstream is a mainstream skill pre-demon/sage pushes me to believe you don't have a high level Assassin yourself. In addition, you have no idea how long this IAS will last, and if you want to talk about increasing attack speed, my 7x Genie gives me a 100% chance of 32% IAS for 10 seconds.

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

power dash 30% chance to increase duration by 3 seconds. again its a bit of a gamble but this skill SHOULD be spammed 100% of the time anyway.

Dude...like...what? How do you spam a skill with a 30 second cooldown?

I am finished arguing with you. I have invalidated most of the points you have brought up. I agree that both Sage and Demon have amazing skills. Demon Rib is insane. You are wrong to overlook Sage, that's all I'm trying to say. I've defeated your point here as I have done when you tried to argue that sins can't lock.

If you want to continue, please carry out your discussion with RoidAbuse (Lv. 97 Barbarian from Sanctuary), Escorian (Lv. 100 BM from Dreamweaver), RRARRRRGGHHH (Lv. 101 Blademaster from Sanctuary), Identical (Lv. 100 Assassin from Lost City), and _Whisper_ (Lv. 80 Assassin from Raging Tide) - All of who have posted on this thread in support of Sage sins and the fact that they shouldn't be simply overlooked.

ntkn

lol... demon sin>sage sin. that fact really shouldn't be argued. can anyone tell me the reason why you would ever want to go sage as a sin so i can prove them word for word on why a demon would be better for there exact reasons?

there is absolutely no reason to ever go sage. if you do you would be doing it solely for the increase in tidal/focus mind effects or tele stun which is ignorance. tidal/focus mind and tele stun will not win you anything in serious pvp like TWs or mass PK sprees.

first of all, in TWs venos will purge your **** so good bye tidal/focus mind. tele stun can be avoided with simple apocs or genie skills so it will be reduced to a regular shadow jump.

sage sins have nothing to offer to the table in pvp nor pve. and i seriously have to laugh at the person who said "tele stun is the most feared skill in the game" or w/e. tele stun is easily dealt with if your competent enough as far as the stun goes. anyone who is on top of there game should know how to deal with stuns by now. especially a stun that only lasts for 3 seconds...

the only thing i can think of that sage sins will be good at is skill spamming for high DPH. and we should all know that DPS>DPH. they also might be good in 1v1 duels *rolls eyes and laughs*

so i seriously would love to know why anyone thinks going sage will be good for pvp or pve. it is so blatantly obvious to why sage is bad if you are a high lvl pvper.

Accel - Raging Tide

ntkn wrote: »

first of all, in TWs venos will purge your **** so good bye tidal/focus mind. tele stun can be avoided with simple apocs or genie skills so it will be reduced to a regular shadow jump.

sage sins have nothing to offer to the table in pvp nor pve. and i seriously have to laugh at the person who said "tele stun is the most feared skill in the game" or w/e. tele stun is easily dealt with if your competent enough as far as the stun goes. anyone who is on top of there game should know how to deal with stuns by now. especially a stun that only lasts for 3 seconds...

You're a joke. You seriously think venos are gonna change from purging barbs to purging assassins? rofl. And really Sins aren't going to be visible in tw until they're ready to kill someone. Again Tele stun? Ok you know how to anti-stun but do you know when we will strike or are you just gonna spam anti stun pots everytime you can

ntkn

Accel - Raging Tide wrote: »

You're a joke. You seriously think venos are gonna change from purging barbs to purging assassins? rofl. And really Sins aren't going to be visible in tw until they're ready to kill someone. Again Tele stun? Ok you know how to anti-stun but do you know when we will strike or are you just gonna spam anti stun pots everytime you can

this is the dumbest post i heard in a goood long time. who the holy **** told you that venos only purge barbs? and are you that blind to not notice that a sin poped up next to you and your suddenly unable to move or atk?

this is what happens when dumasses from a pve server who never pvped in there life posts.

Accel - Raging Tide

ntkn wrote: »

this is the dumbest post i heard in a goood long time. who the holy **** told you that venos only purge barbs? and are you that blind to not notice that a sin poped up next to you and your suddenly unable to move or atk?

this is what happens when dumasses from a pve server who never pvped in there life posts.

I have pvped on both PvE servers that I played on, Twed for almost 1.5 years? I could care less what you say about PvP in PvE server.. still doesn't change the fact that venos MAIN job is to purge barbs. Sure there are other venos to purge other targets but really? If a sin pops up next to you and you can't attack or move, you really think you can get a purge off? And you're really going to waste a purge to get rid of Focused Mind/Tidal Protection?

And it's funny, you post like you're a pvp god but you're not even posting with your avatar on b:bye.

Asurr - Heavens Tear

skyxiii wrote: »

Here's the thing Heartstone, a lot of Perfect World's PVP isn't 1v1.



After reading your first sentence, I already decided that it's not worth my time to argue with you. But just for the sake of showing you how wrong you are...


Wrong. There is one single skill in demon sin that increases your attack rate. How is 1 skill = most? If you're going to link skills in chains, then Chill is the way to go, which sage supports more than demon does okay? Furthermore, Sage S.Teleport has a 30 second cooldown, which also supports chaining.

Because it's so damn easy and cheap to get 5 aps.


Buddy, most real world PVP happens in the air, where slow is negated.


The fact that you think slipstream is a mainstream skill pre-demon/sage pushes me to believe you don't have a high level Assassin yourself. In addition, you have no idea how long this IAS will last, and if you want to talk about increasing attack speed, my 7x Genie gives me a 100% chance of 32% IAS for 10 seconds.


Dude...like...what? How do you spam a skill with a 30 second cooldown?

I am finished arguing with you. I have invalidated most of the points you have brought up. I agree that both Sage and Demon have amazing skills. Demon Rib is insane. You are wrong to overlook Sage, that's all I'm trying to say. I've defeated your point here as I have done when you tried to argue that sins can't lock.

If you want to continue, please carry out your discussion with RoidAbuse (Lv. 97 Barbarian from Sanctuary), Escorian (Lv. 100 BM from Dreamweaver), RRARRRRGGHHH (Lv. 101 Blademaster from Sanctuary), Identical (Lv. 100 Assassin from Lost City), and _Whisper_ (Lv. 80 Assassin from Raging Tide) - All of who have posted on this thread in support of Sage sins and the fact that they shouldn't be simply overlooked.

if demon form for sins is anything like demon form for the other melee classes then they have 2 skills that increase atk speed not one... and that 2nd atk speed increase is from demon spark. and yes everyone can use genies so i can also get atk speed from my genie on top of demon sparks atk speed and slip streams atk speed. dont see what your point was with that one.

why do you keep mentioning sage shadow teleport as if thats your best argument? the stun effect can be negated and we still have demon shadow jump that can be used every 15 seconds and its ranged increased to 35ms.

and what i ment by power dash being spamed is that you should be using it every chance u get.

my entire point is that sage can be overlooked because its not as efficient as demon. its not good and you have not shown any points to prove that sage is better then demon.

Accel - Raging Tide

Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if demon form for sins is anything like demon form for the other melee classes then they have 2 skills that increase atk speed not one... and that 2nd atk speed increase is from demon spark. and yes everyone can use genies so i can also get atk speed from my genie on top of demon sparks atk speed and slip streams atk speed. dont see what your point was with that one.

Increased attack rate buffs don't stack

ntkn

Accel - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have pvped on both PvE servers that I played on, Twed for almost 1.5 years? I could care less what you say about PvP in PvE server.. still doesn't change the fact that venos MAIN job is to purge barbs. Sure there are other venos to purge other targets but really? If a sin pops up next to you and you can't attack or move, you really think you can get a purge off? And you're really going to waste a purge to get rid of Focused Mind/Tidal Protection?

And it's funny, you post like you're a pvp god but you're not even posting with your avatar on b:bye.

/facepalm. ya i can tell you never pvped in your life or your just ignorant.

obviously a sin with tidal protection or focused mind is a very very dangerous sin. so how the **** is it wasting purge? especially if the sin is atking you and half of your status effects or a 3rd of your atks are being dodged? explain that logic to me. 2nd, if you cant move and you have anti stun genie skills/apocs why the hell not use them? your going to just stand there and let the sin own u and go on to the next target?

seriously dont be a dumass. purge them. no one told you you have to use purge mainly and only on barbs -_-. if your really worried about that leave it up to the other venos that are around. its not like your the only veno on the field with the only purge.

Asurr - Heavens Tear

Accel - Raging Tide wrote: »

Increased attack rate buffs don't stack

i never said they stacked. i said they have more then one skill to increase there atk speed. including genie skills. he said we only had 1.