Assassin and Psychic Sage/ Demon Skills

skyxiii

ntkn wrote: »

...
honestly your hopeless.

Please come up with your own comebacks. Don't just recycle mine.

It was difficult to read through your post of spelling, grammatical, and logical errors - so I gave up after the first paragraph.

It doesn't matter how many times you tell yourself you've proved something to us.
This fact stands:
I have the vast majority of posters on my side here - many high level sins, even one that's lv 100. Many other high levels belonging to other classes have posted here against your opinion as well.

You have...well, your alt avatar. . .and Asurr.

If you want to go demon, then GO. It is not bad choice to make, no one here is saying Sage > Demon. No ones stopping you from choosing Demon. People here are simply saying Sage sins shouldn't be overlooked, which you are so strongly suggesting is the correct course of action. Seriously, just stop.

ntkn

skyxiii wrote: »

I have the vast majority of posters on my side here - many high level sins, even one that's lv 100.

gonna say this and go to bed since u seem to think u have a squadron of ppl to back u up on this (as if that seriously matters since i can care less who backs who up).

read the first 4 pages of this thread.



btw, check your own posts that you made in this thread since alot of them have quite a few grammatical errors and punctuation mistakes before you start talking about someone elses.

good night.

Zuyue - Sanctuary

ntkn wrote: »

gonna say this and go to bed since u seem to think u have a squadron of ppl to back u up on this (as if that seriously matters since i can care less who backs who up).

read the first 4 pages of this thread.



btw, check your own posts that you made in this thread since alot of them have quite a few grammatical errors and punctuation mistakes before you start talking about someone elses.

good night.

Can i take a guess that your one of the cash shoppers that went to 89 in 2-3 weeks after patch and choose demon cause you ASSUMED it would be more pvp based at end game with the logic behind demon and sage from the other 5 classes. I have made a post before saying THAT U STILL HAVE TIME TO MAKE ANOTHER SIN to 89 to choose sage before these skills are released so instead of posting here narrowminded and not wanting to see the benifits of sage sin pk because you spent 200$+ to get demon in 2 weeks and do not want to do it again for sage, just tough it out and focus on making a sage sin.

I'm not gonna bark at your assumptions that demon sin is good... i dont doubt they are but scan threw the skills once again and notice that demon is VERY dps based. DPS isnt gonna get thru those HA charms to win you a fight. Sage on the other hand has many skills (other then AoE) they can spam with sage CoD and do considerable DPH which can spike thru HA charm ticks and even win you the fight against them. you even said yourself that sage sin is DPH and demon is DPS with alittle DPH. Demon sin will never be on par with sage DPH and DPH is what wins fights, don't think that can be made more clear.

Use sins are squishy and DPS will leave you vunerable for to long to win a fight while DPH can cut that time in half leaving more chance not to get ganged while you 1-2 hit your target and shadow escape before help arrives! Will be sage sin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tt9V6ZgxDU hater!

Avianna - Raging Tide

Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Will be sage sin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tt9V6ZgxDU hater!

b:chuckle 10char

ntkn

Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Can i take a guess that your one of the cash shoppers that went to 89 in 2-3 weeks after patch and choose demon cause you ASSUMED it would be more pvp based at end game with the logic behind demon and sage from the other 5 classes. I have made a post before saying THAT U STILL HAVE TIME TO MAKE ANOTHER SIN to 89 to choose sage before these skills are released so instead of posting here narrowminded and not wanting to see the benifits of sage sin pk because you spent 200$+ to get demon in 2 weeks and do not want to do it again for sage, just tough it out and focus on making a sage sin.

I'm not gonna bark at your assumptions that demon sin is good... i dont doubt they are but scan threw the skills once again and notice that demon is VERY dps based. DPS isnt gonna get thru those HA charms to win you a fight. Sage on the other hand has many skills (other then AoE) they can spam with sage CoD and do considerable DPH which can spike thru HA charm ticks and even win you the fight against them. you even said yourself that sage sin is DPH and demon is DPS with alittle DPH. Demon sin will never be on par with sage DPH and DPH is what wins fights, don't think that can be made more clear.

Use sins are squishy and DPS will leave you vunerable for to long to win a fight while DPH can cut that time in half leaving more chance not to get ganged while you 1-2 hit your target and shadow escape before help arrives! Will be sage sin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tt9V6ZgxDU hater!

sorry but your guess is dead wrong.

anyway, you do know theirs fist BMs that DPS threw charmed barbs as if they were nothing right? you need to think about what you just said on "dps does not win fights". your not going to 1 or 2 hit HAs with DPH alone so you can stop your foolish dreams about that. you will never have the nuke power wizzies or even psys can dish out.

sage CoD is only a small increase in normal CoD. +5 atk lvl more which is like 5% dmg more. you seriously think that makes that much of a difference to one hit HAs? so where do you get the silly idea that sage CoD does considerable dmg compared to the normal maxed out one? you will be 1 or 2 hitting squishies but sins already do that now without the sage or demon skills... so whats your point if we already 1 or 2 hit ppl?

1 or 2 hitting a HA on the other hand just isnt going to happen with DPH alone unless u have significantly better equips over the HA.


demon sin on the other hand can easily decrease a HAs HP by 10% like a barb/bm with demon ribstrike, casts PD and subsea and then DPS them with 5atks/sec and demon spark with 240% rage dmg. you should know how fast properly built fist BMs can take down HAs so you can imagine what a sin will do.

anyway you should rethink the part you said in bold. its been proven countless times what DPSing can do even before the tideborn expansion and sins are outmatched with dps once they go demon. the DPS is the entire reason most sins wanted to go demon and the devs delivered beautifully. you cant compare DPH to DPS because that has also been proven countless times on this forums that DPS>DPH in a prolonged fight.

DPH works well on squishies because they can be one or 2 hitted by a good nukes but your not going to do that against HAs. against HAs DPS is the better option. and against squishies it doesnt matter because both sage and demon sins one to 2 hit squishies -_- sins have been known to 1-2 hit squishies ever since the expansion first hit. so again you have no point in your argument and dont make any kind of sense. why would u go sage to 1 or 2 hit squishies when you can already do that? to do more dmg on HAs which will only tick there charms and get you killed in the process as you set up your long combo chains?

but its your choice and im not going to stop you. all im saying is your going sage for false reasons.

Accel - Raging Tide

ntkn wrote: »

demon sin on the other hand can easily decrease a HAs HP by 10% like a barb/bm with demon ribstrike, casts PD and subsea and then DPS them with 5atks/sec and demon spark with 240% rage dmg. you should know how fast properly built fist BMs can take down HAs so you can imagine what a sin will do.

DPS build is gonna be so expensive b:shutup

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Accel - Raging Tide wrote: »

DPS build is gonna be so expensive b:shutup

everything in this game is expensive. getting the skills for demon/sage in the first place will be expensive. but if you have the determination to work and farm/merchant/etc you can get whatever you want in this game. all it takes is time and patience. it is just a game after all. if you have been playing this game for a significant amount of time then there should be no reason at all for you to be poor or not achieve what you want to achieve unless your to lazy and un motivated to work for it.

theres already sins with some very good gear like rank 8 gear and nirvana daggers and the FC daggers. since tides dont have sage/demon yet they have nothing but time to get money and improve there char and gear.

RADD_RATT - Harshlands

hmm seems to me that they are like most other classes. sage for PvE demon for PvP.
i deffinatly think demon is better as im thinkning of some combos that would be devistating. but sage isnt bad at all. demon can do more damage in short periods of time for sure. but sage dagger devotion + sage chill + skill spam = pwnage. a sage sin would be able to do a bit more damage to a boss as it takes a few minutes of battle. and also sage spark + inne rharmony + sub sea + earthen rift......yum! but i aslo like demon sub sea. so im not complainin.

im gunna have to put more thought in it...but as of now im leaning towards demon. sage is easier to play but if youre creative demon has some bloody combos

Crypsis - Lost City

I think a lot of it comes down to if sins endgame should be build/geared around 5.0 /sec attack dps or go for spike dmg - bypass charm type.

Im really low lvl yet and actually have no clue what will be most effective for a 100+ sin in endgame gear and like +12 Nirvana dagger (or similar) and full set of demon/sage skills.

Sins are not archers or bms, they have skills that does far more dmg and have higher dmg mods already at lvl 10 than other physical classes skills do at lvl11, so im guessing sins will never be as dependent on high dps as bm/ea.

If you look at it from that perspective sage will be a pretty amazing choice. But on the other hand people does have some crazy phy def endgame, just a self buff wizard gets 10k phy def easy and maybe sins lvl 11 skill wont do enough dmg even with +50 or more attack lvl. Maybe you need to reach the 5. /sec cap to outdmg someone hp- charm as a sin as well.

I really have no clue so im gonna wait and see and let others make mistakes first b:surrender

Ephemerai - Sanctuary

Crypsis - Lost City wrote: »

I really have no clue so im gonna wait and see and let others make mistakes first b:surrender

=D exactly what I'm doing rofl.

Yishuin - Sanctuary

I took Identical translation to compare sage and demon assassins. Lets watch the advantage of each path (each blue version is better than the other)

大地裂纹 - Earthern Rift
Sage= Damage Increased to 430%
Demon= 20% chance to gain 30 chi

匕首精通 - Dagger Devotion
Sage= Weapon Damage increased to 90%
Demon= Addtional 1% crit

分水刺击 - Subsea Strike
Sage= Amplification increased to 50%
Demon= Duration increased by 7s

强行遁隐 - Shadow Escape
Sage= Dispells all negative effects
Demon= Reduces cooldown by 15s

遁隐术 - Shadow Walk
Sage= Consume 3 less mana per second
Demon= Reduce casting by .5s

嗜血咒 - Bloodpaint
Sage= Addtional 1% bloodsuck
Demon= Increases evasion

如影随形 - Shadow Jump
Sage= 10 less chi cost to use
Demon= increase range to 35m

如来天心咒 - Deaden Nerves
Sage= Increate duration by 30s
Demon= Receive 35% hp instead of 20%

狂狼印 - Wolf Emblem
Sage= 30minute duration and for 8 seconds rage is 20%
Demon= 40% rage instead of 20%

金刚轮印咒 - Focused Mind
Sage= +8% dodge chance
Demon= 10% version of Tidal Protection

三世明王咒 - Tidal Protection
Sage=+16% evade chance
Demon=10% version of Focused Mind

连击 - Twin Strike
Sage= 20% chance to gain 20chi
Demon= casting reduced by .1

斩首 - Headhunt
Sage= 50% chance to consume 1 spark
Demon= +1s of stun (5 seconds to 6 seconds for a stun its nothing)

深度冰刺 - Chill of the Deep
Sage= +5 atk lvls
Demon= 70% speed reduction (yeah go auto attack with COTD = failure)

放血 - Puncture Wound
Sage= 20% more bleed dmg
Demon= reduce bleed duration by 3s

断喉斩 - Throat Cut
Sage= 25% chance to not consume a spark
Demon= 25% chance to deal more damage

斩杀 - SlipStream Strike
Sage= reduce cooldown by 1s
Demon= 30% chance to increase atk speed by 20%

钻心袖箭 - Knife Throw
Sage= reduce cooldown by 5s
Demon= 100% chance to cancel channeling

背水一战 - Inner Harmony
Sage= 30% chance to gain addtional 1 spark
Demon= 10% hp recovered

狂乱斩 - Raving Slash
Sage=+10 atk lvls, reduces targets defenses by 50% for 5s here its a bit abused. i think its +10 atk lvl and its player's defenses wich is reduced but who knows?
Demon= 40% chance to reduce targets movespeed by 90% for 5s

致命扫击 - Ribstrike
Sage= Reduce target's attack speed by +15%
Demon= for 10 seconds reduce targets hp by 10% archers are still better for reducing hp max.

深刺 - Deep Sting
Sage= reduce cooldown by 2s
Demon= increase sleep by 3s

疾风行 - Wind Push
Sage= reduce cooldown by 10s
Demon= increase duration by 3s

人鱼变 - Tide Form
Sage= increase swim speed by 20%
Demon= increase defense level by 3

百步神行诀 - Shadow Teleport
Sage= reduce cooldown by 40s
Demon= stun increased by 2s (we have headhunt to stun with 2 sparks)

强冲刺杀 - Power Dash
Sage=50% chance to consume 1 spark
Demon= 30% chance to increase duration 3s

绊腿斩 - Tackling Slash
Sage= paralyze for +2s
Demon= Reduces movespeed by 50% for 20s. all the strenght of tackling slash comes with freeze. reducing movespeed is a joke.

龙腾斩 - Rising Dragon Strike
Sage= gain 180chi
Demon= cooldown reduced by 5s

迷踪乱步诀 - Maze Step
Sage= increase duration by 2s
Demon= 附加效果闪避提升80%，持续10s I think it casts a focused mind that lasts for 10seconds

so... i think its cleared. sage is a lot better than demon for assassins if this translation is right. Demon's skills are absolutely worser than sage. The only advantage of demon's path for me is the effect or the 3 spark eruption.

Seriously even if this translation is 70% or even 50% right i will laugh at all the sins who oracled/hyperxp/etc... and chose demon's path.

But... wait and see what will be the right effect of each skills .

Hypnos - Raging Tide

Sins are funny...they argue among themself. Look at the psy, they lead a peaceful and quiet life xDD
Plz, leave this threat for translator and updator, take the discussion into your own forum =(

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Yishuin - Sanctuary wrote: »

I took Identical translation to compare sage and demon assassins. Lets watch the advantage of each path (each blue version is better than the other)

大地裂纹 - Earthern Rift
Sage= Damage Increased to 430%
Demon= 20% chance to gain 30 chi

匕首精通 - Dagger Devotion
Sage= Weapon Damage increased to 90%
Demon= Addtional 1% crit

分水刺击 - Subsea Strike
Sage= Amplification increased to 50%
Demon= Duration increased by 7s

强行遁隐 - Shadow Escape
Sage= Dispells all negative effects
Demon= Reduces cooldown by 15s

遁隐术 - Shadow Walk
Sage= Consume 3 less mana per second
Demon= Reduce casting by .5s

嗜血咒 - Bloodpaint
Sage= Addtional 1% bloodsuck
Demon= Increases evasion

如影随形 - Shadow Jump
Sage= 10 less chi cost to use
Demon= increase range to 35m

如来天心咒 - Deaden Nerves
Sage= Increate duration by 30s
Demon= Receive 35% hp instead of 20%

狂狼印 - Wolf Emblem
Sage= 30minute duration and for 8 seconds rage is 20%
Demon= 40% rage instead of 20%

金刚轮印咒 - Focused Mind
Sage= +8% dodge chance
Demon= 10% version of Tidal Protection

三世明王咒 - Tidal Protection
Sage=+16% evade chance
Demon=10% version of Focused Mind

连击 - Twin Strike
Sage= 20% chance to gain 20chi
Demon= casting reduced by .1

斩首 - Headhunt
Sage= 50% chance to consume 1 spark
Demon= +1s of stun (5 seconds to 6 seconds for a stun its nothing)

深度冰刺 - Chill of the Deep
Sage= +5 atk lvls
Demon= 70% speed reduction (yeah go auto attack with COTD = failure)

放血 - Puncture Wound
Sage= 20% more bleed dmg
Demon= reduce bleed duration by 3s

断喉斩 - Throat Cut
Sage= 25% chance to not consume a spark
Demon= 25% chance to deal more damage

斩杀 - SlipStream Strike
Sage= reduce cooldown by 1s
Demon= 30% chance to increase atk speed by 20%

钻心袖箭 - Knife Throw
Sage= reduce cooldown by 5s
Demon= 100% chance to cancel channeling

背水一战 - Inner Harmony
Sage= 30% chance to gain addtional 1 spark
Demon= 10% hp recovered

狂乱斩 - Raving Slash
Sage=+10 atk lvls, reduces targets defenses by 50% for 5s here its a bit abused. i think its +10 atk lvl and its player's defenses wich is reduced but who knows?
Demon= 40% chance to reduce targets movespeed by 90% for 5s

致命扫击 - Ribstrike
Sage= Reduce target's attack speed by +15%
Demon= for 10 seconds reduce targets hp by 10% archers are still better for reducing hp max.

深刺 - Deep Sting
Sage= reduce cooldown by 2s
Demon= increase sleep by 3s

疾风行 - Wind Push
Sage= reduce cooldown by 10s
Demon= increase duration by 3s

人鱼变 - Tide Form
Sage= increase swim speed by 20%
Demon= increase defense level by 3

百步神行诀 - Shadow Teleport
Sage= reduce cooldown by 40s
Demon= stun increased by 2s (we have headhunt to stun with 2 sparks)

强冲刺杀 - Power Dash
Sage=50% chance to consume 1 spark
Demon= 30% chance to increase duration 3s

绊腿斩 - Tackling Slash
Sage= paralyze for +2s
Demon= Reduces movespeed by 50% for 20s. all the strenght of tackling slash comes with freeze. reducing movespeed is a joke.

龙腾斩 - Rising Dragon Strike
Sage= gain 180chi
Demon= cooldown reduced by 5s

迷踪乱步诀 - Maze Step
Sage= increase duration by 2s
Demon= 附加效果闪避提升80%，持续10s I think it casts a focused mind that lasts for 10seconds

so... i think its cleared. sage is a lot better than demon for assassins if this translation is right. Demon's skills are absolutely worser than sage. The only advantage of demon's path for me is the effect or the 3 spark eruption.

Seriously even if this translation is 70% or even 50% right i will laugh at all the sins who oracled/hyperxp/etc... and chose demon's path.

But... wait and see what will be the right effect of each skills .

just a question but why is most of the things you translated in your post completely different from the other translations?

anyway i think we should wait until the skill descriptions are officially posted by PWI GMs before we jump the gun on anything. i seen to many translations for sage/demon skills that contradict each other or different from each other. i remember right before the expansion when someone translated all the skills for psy and sin and instead we got a few skills that were completely different from the translation while a few of them were the same.

so lets wait and see because from what i heard the skills are still in development and not released in china pw yet. they are still working on them so alot can change.

RADD_RATT - Harshlands

me likes demon!

Swaze - Sanctuary

Wow, didn't really expect this to become one giant jumbled arguement ^^

From what I see in a PvP standpoint is this:

As Zuyue mentioned before and i agree, is DPH is a far more valued asset to the Sin than DPS. People are so caught up by fist BMs and archers massive interval damage that they believe the same would apply to assassins. I dont see this as the case. As mentioned before in a post of mine, we are the squishiest melee classes around. Other DPS classes such as the BMs have high def, so as a melee class,can be able to withstand hits and possible interruptions (such as stuns) before resuming their attack. Archers, on the other hand have the advanatage of range and massive spike (crit and bows damage range) so their general concept is to kill before the target can reach them or react to them.

So, if DPH > DPS, sage sin is definitely the way to go. We, as the name might imply, is a class that must strike hard strike fast. We do not have the time to sit their and dps anything...unless of course your gear is so stacked that nothing can basically touch you. For instance, you pop out of stealth, you got good interval gear and you triple spark demon. One stun from a BM and you're just a sitting duck counting their last seconds before death. These demon skills that increase your attk. Yea they are nice, but they are also CHANCE. Which means, you have to hit it and pray to god it ticks...otherwise, you will sit their looking like a fool. As for Demon CoD. The a/r penalty is decreased to...70%? I have been told by someone with lvl4 CoD that 70% decrease puts ur a/r at 0.83 and he had -0.1 sleeves...so, what is that? axe speed? fun... Also, sage rib strike increases a/r reduction to 65%? say bb to ur 5 aps. This is one of the most used and abused skill of a sin. and it can be spammed all day.

I am not saying demon is bad. But i believe it is outweighted by sage. Personally, I'd like demon for pve, if I had any interest in it for my sin.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

you have to consider fist/claws do more damage than daggers. I'm leaning towards sage.

Eragon - Harshlands

I love what swaze said. Sins cant take alot of hits. if you load up your dps and hit someone they can do alot, stun. etc

If you go sage, you have HUGE dph. Sage spark has alot more attack in it then demon. combine that with COTD and maybe raving slash, all you gotta drop is headhunt and maybe throatcut. You have alot more chance to die when you go for dps. And sins IMO are all about getting in and out (thats what she said) fast.

RADD_RATT - Harshlands

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, if DPH > DPS, sage sin is definitely the way to go. We, as the name might imply, is a class that must strike hard strike fast. We do not have the time to sit their and dps anything...unless of course your gear is so stacked that nothing can basically touch you. For instance, you pop out of stealth, you got good interval gear and you triple spark demon. One stun from a BM and you're just a sitting duck counting their last seconds before death. These demon skills that increase your attk. Yea they are nice, but they are also CHANCE. Which means, you have to hit it and pray to god it ticks...otherwise, you will sit their looking like a fool. As for Demon CoD. The a/r penalty is decreased to...70%? I have been told by someone with lvl4 CoD that 70% decrease puts ur a/r at 0.83 and he had -0.1 sleeves...so, what is that? axe speed? fun... Also, sage rib strike increases a/r reduction to 65%? say bb to ur 5 aps. This is one of the most used and abused skill of a sin. and it can be spammed all day.

oh cmon now, no one is THAT stupid. if your gunna go for the 5 hts with demon spark and you attack a BM with that stradegy....youre gunna maze step first. so they arent just gunna stun you and turn you into a sitting duck. chances are they are dead before maze steps even wears off.

but one thing most people arnt realizing is maze steps has a weakness it resists stuns and immobolize, but not seals.

Accel - Raging Tide

RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »

oh cmon now, no one is THAT stupid. if your gunna go for the 5 hts with demon spark and you attack a BM with that stradegy....youre gunna maze step first. so they arent just gunna stun you and turn you into a sitting duck. chances are they are dead before maze steps even wears off.

but one thing most people arnt realizing is maze steps has a weakness it resists stuns and immobolize, but not seals.

The only problem is that maze steps only last 10 seconds compared to BMs will of bodhisatva which is 15 seconds.. that 10 seconds is short as hell b:shutup

And decent pvper with a brain knows that you can seal a person thats on anti stun buff b:shocked

Sezan - Harshlands

I'm going demon on my sin with ***** < sure you can work it out b:victoryb:thanks

Swaze - Sanctuary

RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »

oh cmon now, no one is THAT stupid. if your gunna go for the 5 hts with demon spark and you attack a BM with that stradegy....youre gunna maze step first. so they arent just gunna stun you and turn you into a sitting duck. chances are they are dead before maze steps even wears off.

but one thing most people arnt realizing is maze steps has a weakness it resists stuns and immobolize, but not seals.

Sorry for not properly speaking my point. To reiterate, BMs Wizzys Sins and anyone with the genie skill can simply seal you past your anti-movement buff seeing as seal is not a movement debuff according to pwi. As for the maze step, sure is a nice strategy, however, as accel said compared to the BMs Will of the Bodhisatva which lasts 15, maze only lasts 10. Ten seconds amounts to... using the skill, hitting perhaps wolf emblem to regain the 3rd spark, sparking....another 3 seconds and bam, 6...maybe 7 seconds of attack? only to be countered by a seal? which sin's through cut lasts for 4 seconds. I dont know about you but when I see that doggone anti movement buff icon, throatcut is my go to skill =/. Although I must say, on a squishy, setting that all up in stealth and barraging a AA or LA would be pretty devastating ^^. Like I said, both sides look rather enticing, however, sage is what im leaning towards to because I believe their skills will benefit my play style and my thin wallet b:cute

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry for not properly speaking my point. To reiterate, BMs Wizzys Sins and anyone with the genie skill can simply seal you past your anti-movement buff seeing as seal is not a movement debuff according to pwi. As for the maze step, sure is a nice strategy, however, as accel said compared to the BMs Will of the Bodhisatva which lasts 15, maze only lasts 10. Ten seconds amounts to... using the skill, hitting perhaps wolf emblem to regain the 3rd spark, sparking....another 3 seconds and bam, 6...maybe 7 seconds of attack? only to be countered by a seal? which sin's through cut lasts for 4 seconds. I dont know about you but when I see that doggone anti movement buff icon, throatcut is my go to skill =/. Although I must say, on a squishy, setting that all up in stealth and barraging a AA or LA would be pretty devastating ^^. Like I said, both sides look rather enticing, however, sage is what im leaning towards to because I believe their skills will benefit my play style and my thin wallet b:cute

what are you guys talking about? demon maze steps last 20 seconds now not 10... thats 5 seconds longer then BMs WoB

also seal works assuming u can even get passed tidal protection. so its a 50/50 chance seal will even work. so there's alot of flaws in what your saying.

sage is good for very high spiking, but im just really wondering how skill spamming will do on HAs. all of our skills are physical atks so im wondering even with all of that atk power will we manage to get passed a decently built HA barb or HA BM with marrow charm. a decently built HA has alot of pdef to spare so i doubt we will do dmg to them like a wizz/psy/veno or even archer can do.

but we will see. i will wait and let other sins try both classes out before i choose my path. let them be ginny pigs lol.

Swaze - Sanctuary

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

what are you guys talking about? demon maze steps last 20 seconds now not 10... thats 5 seconds longer then BMs WoB

.

Well if the opponent has demon maze step, not only can i try seal but stun sleep and freeze as well since their anti-movement now becomes chance as well

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well if the opponent has demon maze step, not only can i try seal but stun sleep and freeze as well since their anti-movement now becomes chance as well

the problem is if it dont become a new symbol then how are you gonna know if they have demon or not?

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well if the opponent has demon maze step, not only can i try seal but stun sleep and freeze as well since their anti-movement now becomes chance as well

stun doesn't work on demon maze and neither does freeze. only seal works 100% of the time on maze steps.

and even tho demon maze steps is 80% chance you still have to worry about tidal protections 50% chance to avoid all and any kind of negative status effect as well. so with 80% chance and a 50% chance to avoid a anti movement skill it is very very unlikely you will actually pull it off. and if you do it will be just plain luck and nothing more.


so there's a 50% chance seal will work on a sin. there's a 80% chance that stun/freeze or any kind of anti movement debuff wont work ON TOP OF the 50% chance from tidal. so in the 20% chance stun does get passed maze steps you still have another 50% chance it wont get passed tidal.

do you see what im saying? the chance of you getting off any kind of anti movement skill is very very slim and you will be wasting your time in trying to do so.

Swaze - Sanctuary

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the problem is if it dont become a new symbol then how are you gonna know if they have demon or not?

well the nice thing about our skills is that most of the movement debuffs are also our hardest hitting skills ...so if anything it would be used for damage anyway


@ballistixz: whether or not the numbers say slim chance, the fact of the matter is, if nothing works, because the sin is that lucky to avoid all debuffs, next step would be to take 2 steps back...and wait out the spark, since we are after all, a melee class

SaphireDemon - Lost City

Just my 2 Cents

Ascii - Harshlands wrote: »

Deep Sting
Sage: Cooldown Reduced by 2 seconds
Demon: Sleep Duration increased by 3 seconds

Duration wins in this one, we dont need to spamm a skill that uses 50 chi to cast
-Demon Wins

Demon = 1 Sage = 0

Throat cut
Sage: 25% Chance to not consume chi
Demon: "25% chance of injury to deepen" (unknown)

Sins gain chi fster then any other class
so in a question of chi vs dmg on one of the hardest hitting skills
guess who wins ?
-Demon Wins

Demon = 2 Sage = 0

Earthen Rift
Sage: Damage increased to 430% Weapon Damage
Demon: Has 20% Chance to gain 30 chi

if demon is PER target, then this is one nice skill
unknown so
-Sage Wins

Demon = 2 Sage = 1


Subsea Strike
Sage: Amplify effect increased to 50%
Demon: Amplify duration increased to 15 seconds

50% vs 15 sec
personally u can do alot more dmg in those 15 sec then with a 50%
and im talking about vs HA users, we dont need dmg increse on squishes anyways lol
-Demon wins

Demon = 3 Sage = 1

Inner Harmony
Sage: 30% chance to gain additional 100 Chi
Demon: Gains 10% hp

demon is like a lvl 1 cleric by your side when your cahrm is on Cool Down
and sage is like a gambler
but we gain chi so fast it rly doesnt matter
-Draw

Twin Strike
Sage: 20% Chance to gain 20 Chi
Demon: Channel and Cooldown reduced by 0.1 Seconds

People use this skill ? L.O.L.

Headhunt
Sage: 50% chance to only comsume 1 Spark
Demon: Stun effect increased by 1 second

yay 1 spark Becouse we dont gain 400 chi in 4 attacks /sarcasm
demon gives an even more perfect stunnlock vs barbs
(just tell me your gonna fight a 20k hp barb and not stunn lock him =P)
-demon wins hands down

Demon = 4 Sage = 1

Raving Slash
Sage: Increases Attack level increase by 10 and reduces users defence by 50% Equipment value for 5 seconds.
Demon: 40% Chance to reduce Opponents Speed by 90%. Effect extended by 5 Seconds.

sage = kamikaze
demon = Laugh at victim and call it a slowpoke

noone uses this skill =P

Rib Strike
Sage: Reduces Target Attack speed by an additional 15%
Demon: Reduces Targets Maximum HP By 10% for 10 Seconds. (< WTF Owned much lol? b:shocked)

Slowing down an oponent is nice, useless when u got him stuck in a stunlock
taking away 10% hp is very nice vs bm/ barb and in HH when archers arent in PT

*yay a reason for Sins to be accepted for something more then pure DD in a HH*
-Demon Wins

Demon = 5 Sage = 1

Windpush
Sage: Cooldown reduce by 10 seconds.
Demon: Effect Extended by 3 seconds.

does it rly matter ?

Maze Steps
Sage: Effect Extended by an Additional 2 seconds.
Demon: Immune Resist effect reduced to 80% Chance but Effect Extended by 10 seconds.

demon = NERF b:shutup
-Sage wins

Demon = 4 Sage = 2

Dagger Devotion
Sage: Damaged increased to 90% Weapon Damage
Demon: Critical Hit increased by 1%

more crit is always nice *+ power dash = crit every hit "drools" *
30% more dmg is always nice
-Draw

Focused Mind
Sage: Chance to resist hit increased by 8%
Demon: "Dodge with 10% of the damage effects" (unknown)

-Draw *depends on preference

Shadow Escape
Sage: Removes any Negative Effects
Demon: Cooldown Reduced by 15 Seconds

our own personal purify that has a 3 min cooldown? HELL YEAH
-Sage Wins

Demon = 4 Sage = 3

Bloodpaint
Sage: Drain Effect increased to 3%
Demon: Increases Evasion

evasion is useless in endgame pvp.... depends how much though
3% and a bm will love you long time and aoe with you 24/7
useless in pvp, so it aint counted

Deaden Nerves
Sage: Effect duration extended by 30 seconds
Demon: HP Recovery Effect increased to 35% maximum HP

15% hp more wins, saves us in that "omfg charm is on Cool down" moments
-Demon wins

Demon = 5 Sage = 3

Slipstream Strike
Sage: Cooldown reduced by 1 second
Demon: 30% Chance to increase attack rate by 20% (again WTF lol Owned o.O)

demon hands down
this + demon spark = Epic *if it stacks*
if it doesnt stack then its always nice to have when demon spark is not on
-Demon wins

Demon = 6 Sage = 3

Power Dash
Sage: 50% chance to only Consume 1 spark.
Demon: 30% Chance to increase the duration by 3 seconds.

3 more seconds of a 40% crit rate ? HELL YEA
-Demon wins

Demon = 7 Sage = 3

Tackling slash
Sage: Immobilize target effect extended by an additional 2 seconds
Demon: Immobilize target effect extended by 20 seconds at the cost of reducing the chance to Immobilize to 50%

demon = NERF b:shutup
-sage Wins

Demon = 7 Sage = 4

Tidal Protection
Sage: Chance to resist Negative effects increased by 16%
Demon: "With 10% of the negative effects of the state dodge" (Unknown)

-Draw *depends on preference*

Tide Form
Sage: Swimming Speed increased by 20%
Demon: Adds an Additional 3 Defence


sage = perfect water mount
demon = survivability
But....
Do people level this to lvl 11? xD

Puncture Wound
Sage: Bleed Damage increased by 20%
Demon: Bleed Time reduced by 3 seconds

depends on preference, since this skill is only usefull until lvl 40-50
-draw

Wolf Emblem
Sage: Effect lasts 30 Minutes, but decreased to 20%
Demon: Rage Damage Effect increased to 40%

Sage:
Lazy **** who cant spamm an Instant skill every minute
nerfed by 20% that makes the sage only get 10% more dmg then demon from dagger mastery

Demon:
20% more dmg then sage when crit,
for a class that crits more often then any other

-Demon wins hands down

Demon = 8 Sage = 4

Knife Throw
Sage: Cooldown reduced by 5 seconds
Demon: 100% chance to interrupt enemies channelling

two words.......
Sage BIDS
b:bye
-Demon wins

Demon = 9 Sage = 4

Chill of the Deep
Sage: Adds an additional 5 Attack levels
Demon: Attack speed Reduction reduced to 70%

unless u got a crazy attack rate, the demon is a waste of coins

-sage wins dangs down

Demon = 9 Sage = 5

Rising Dragon Strike
Sage: Gain an Additional 30 Chi
Demon: Cooldown reduced by 5 seconds

more spammable vs more chi
depends on preferance
-draw

Shadow Jump
Sage: Chi cost Reduced to 10
Demon: Distance increased to 35m

another 35m skill, sweet
less chi? we gain too much chi as it is =P
-demon wins

Demon = 10 Sage = 5

Shadow Teleport
Sage: Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds
Demon: Stun Time increased by 2 seconds

more stun time = stun lock is even more perfected
cooldown is nice but we got the other teleport skill up to 35m so who cares
-Demon wins

Demon = 11 Sage = 5

Sage Sins will have nice Skills
Demons will have alot more nicer skills

Summary:

Sage Sins:
they seem like Aoe prefered,
for a class that cant aoe well,
and for a player who cant spamm the most usefull skill every 1 minute
seems like a fail, like a sage archer x_x

Demon Sin:
-few skills will be nerfed if u get them to 11 (maze step, tackling slash)
-will crit alot more often then sage (power dash, dagger mastery)
-will do alot more dmg then sage (wolf emblem, throat cut)
-will have a perfect stun lock (headhunt, shadow tele, deep sting, throat cut)
-will have faster dps (demon spark, Spilstreak strike)
-will be more welcome to a HH/ FF/ Lunar when there is no archer (rib strike)

Just my opinion ^_^
the choise is yours
Have a nice day

Asheera - Raging Tide

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so there's a 50% chance seal will work on a sin. there's a 80% chance that stun/freeze or any kind of anti movement debuff wont work ON TOP OF the 50% chance from tidal. so in the 20% chance stun does get passed maze steps you still have another 50% chance it wont get passed tidal.

That equals a 10% chance which is not THAT uncommon. I mean sure in one fight it would seem logical to avoid it but in lots and lots of fights it is bound to happen... and a lot. One failure in 10 tries isn't exactly rare.

@SaphireDemon: Speaking of PvE, I'm sure many would also love the 3% BP from Sage though... but still without archer in party the Demon Rib Strike would be more welcome I think.

keyshey

question,

if you reduce the max hp for 10s, once the effect is over, do they gain those hp back?

Euphy - Dreamweaver

SaphireDemon - Lost City wrote: »

Just my 2 Cents



Sage Sins will have nice Skills
Demons will have alot more nicer skills

Summary:

Sage Sins:
they seem like Aoe prefered,
for a class that cant aoe well,
and for a player who cant spamm the most usefull skill every 1 minute
seems like a fail, like a sage archer x_x

Demon Sin:
-few skills will be nerfed if u get them to 11 (maze step, tackling slash)
-will crit alot more often then sage (power dash, dagger mastery)
-will do alot more dmg then sage (wolf emblem, throat cut)
-will have a perfect stun lock (headhunt, shadow tele, deep sting, throat cut)
-will have faster dps (demon spark, Spilstreak strike)
-will be more welcome to a HH/ FF/ Lunar when there is no archer (rib strike)

Just my opinion ^_^
the choise is yours
Have a nice day

I think this is a perfect summary... I'd argue that Sage Blood Paint is well worth it so my count was D:S | 11:6 but in the end that hardly makes a difference. Psychics will be more balanced across the cultivations thought which is nice. Demon Assassin books will be incredibly expensive though so good luck to you all!
@keyshey: They do not get their health back after the buff wears off. So it basically does 10% damage too.