Pure or LA?

124

Comments

  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Did you miss the part of the discussion where we actually compared magic attack bonuses? It may be that a LA build needs a different weapon than arcane...

    Physical defense between the two builds is about the same, and the increased hps from LA refining and HP shards make up for the lower magic defense. So the only thing gained from the arcane build is about 1k magic attack that is not compensated for in some other way. So admittedly arcane is the better build at 95+...but not by a whole lot and it is a lot more expensive.

    I have to agree with most the things you say but no way in heck does HP shards make up for lower magic defense or *cough* a barb wouldn't be scared of us for no reason and archers wouldn't complain about how much magic damage we do to them. Look at transcends vids that char has 6k hp unbuffed and 9k buffed and guess whats hurting still even fully buffed?
  • Belheldar - Harshlands
    Belheldar - Harshlands Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    does this mean im gunna have to spend a lot of real money to be successful as AA?
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Did you miss the part of the discussion where we actually compared magic attack bonuses? It may be that a LA build needs a different weapon than arcane...

    Physical defense between the two builds is about the same, and the increased hps from LA refining and HP shards make up for the lower magic defense. So the only thing gained from the arcane build is about 1k magic attack that is not compensated for in some other way. So admittedly arcane is the better build at 95+...but not by a whole lot and it is a lot more expensive.

    The hp on LA does not make up for lower mdef. Arcane can easily have more hp, and with double the mdef of your build, can take a considerable amount more damage without dying. Going back to square one, arcane has more damage and survivability than LA. The ONLY advantages to LA are the extra crit and possibility of - channeling ornaments while still maintaining some measurable amount of pdef.

    I don't see where you are saying that arcane costs more either. A wizard is generally an expensive class to play, but that doesn't mean that arcane is more expensive than LA. When I "fixed" your build, I made them cost roughly the same amount. Lets take a look at the list of things I changed.

    #1 Weapon - Both come from frostcovered sign force, so equivalent
    #2 Chest - I replaced your 3* armor with HH 90 top.. you can easily farm the top, but I'm sure it is a bit more expensive than your armor
    #3 Legs - Replaced HH 90 LA for HH 90 arcane.. exactly the same price
    #4 Boots - Replaced HH 80 gold LA boots for OHT boots with 2 decent stats.. besides the fact that you MAKE MONEY trying to craft a decent pair, lets say you bought one in AH for some ridiculously high price.. 500k maybe? Still ALOT cheaper to go with OHT.
    #5 Wrists - Pretty much the same as the boots, I see OHT gear with these kind of stats as basically free. When I was trying to make myself a decent pair, I would leave a catshop up over night buying tears and selling perfect stones.. not only did I make myself a decent pair.. I was making ~500k-1mil a night by making/decomposing my OHT stuff. Prices have changed, so it would be about break even now on my server.. still a hell of a lot cheaper than HH wrists
    #6 Belt - I replaced your belt (dunno even what it was tbh) with a 4th map belt (a quest reward).. obviously not expensive there
    #7 Helm - replaced helm of the aqua viciousness with some decent OHT helm.. this would be a little more expensive than the gloves/wrists because of the mats required to make it, but still could make/buy one of these for 500k or less
    #8 ring - I replaced one ring with an OHT ring, same thing as the helm basically.. lots of people make cheap rings like the one I made, replaced a quest reward with some cheapo 100-300k ring
    #9 Robe - I don't know the prices on DW, so I can't really say. I can tell you on LC, that Mantle of the Ghost lord would cost 2 or 3 times more than cape of the elite leather, but again prices are not the same on the servers so I can't really be sure.

    I used the exact same grade shards/refines so it would be the same amount of money. Re looking over everything I just put, the only way arcane is more expensive than LA would be the restat to fix your terrible build.
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • Bramir - Dreamweaver
    Bramir - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    The hp on LA does not make up for lower mdef. Arcane can easily have more hp, and with double the mdef of your build, can take a considerable amount more damage without dying. Going back to square one, arcane has more damage and survivability than LA. The ONLY advantages to LA are the extra crit and possibility of - channeling ornaments while still maintaining some measurable amount of pdef.

    I don't see where you are saying that arcane costs more either. A wizard is generally an expensive class to play, but that doesn't mean that arcane is more expensive than LA. When I "fixed" your build, I made them cost roughly the same amount. Lets take a look at the list of things I changed.

    #1 Weapon - Both come from frostcovered sign force, so equivalent
    #2 Chest - I replaced your 3* armor with HH 90 top.. you can easily farm the top, but I'm sure it is a bit more expensive than your armor
    #3 Legs - Replaced HH 90 LA for HH 90 arcane.. exactly the same price
    #4 Boots - Replaced HH 80 gold LA boots for OHT boots with 2 decent stats.. besides the fact that you MAKE MONEY trying to craft a decent pair, lets say you bought one in AH for some ridiculously high price.. 500k maybe? Still ALOT cheaper to go with OHT.
    #5 Wrists - Pretty much the same as the boots, I see OHT gear with these kind of stats as basically free. When I was trying to make myself a decent pair, I would leave a catshop up over night buying tears and selling perfect stones.. not only did I make myself a decent pair.. I was making ~500k-1mil a night by making/decomposing my OHT stuff. Prices have changed, so it would be about break even now on my server.. still a hell of a lot cheaper than HH wrists
    #6 Belt - I replaced your belt (dunno even what it was tbh) with a 4th map belt (a quest reward).. obviously not expensive there
    #7 Helm - replaced helm of the aqua viciousness with some decent OHT helm.. this would be a little more expensive than the gloves/wrists because of the mats required to make it, but still could make/buy one of these for 500k or less
    #8 ring - I replaced one ring with an OHT ring, same thing as the helm basically.. lots of people make cheap rings like the one I made, replaced a quest reward with some cheapo 100-300k ring
    #9 Robe - I don't know the prices on DW, so I can't really say. I can tell you on LC, that Mantle of the Ghost lord would cost 2 or 3 times more than cape of the elite leather, but again prices are not the same on the servers so I can't really be sure.

    I used the exact same grade shards/refines so it would be the same amount of money. Re looking over everything I just put, the only way arcane is more expensive than LA would be the restat to fix your terrible build.

    Why are we still talking about a build with a 1% crit rate? I don't even consider the points I have in dex wasted...the extra points in strength are the ones I could do without. Any build that reduces my crit rate by 5 to improve my magic defense is just not going to cut it.

    I got a midnight black pataka and my magic attack maxes over 8k unbuffed, so my primary concern is magic defense though, which is the only thing that build does have going for it compared to what I have now. I may try to replace one or two of my LA gears with arcane if the bonuses warrant it in an effort to get my magic defense higher. The oht belt I have is there only until the TT90 is ready...which will also increase magic attack.

    After about 30+ attempts I gave up on oht wrists or boots...I still try chest armor when I can find the stones (have plenty of stamina material).

    Once I get 2 lunar rings I'll restat to arcane. For now this will work just fine.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Why are we still talking about a build with a 1% crit rate? I don't even consider the points I have in dex wasted...the extra points in strength are the ones I could do without. Any build that reduces my crit rate by 5 to improve my magic defense is just not going to cut it.

    I got a midnight black pataka and my magic attack maxes over 8k unbuffed, so my primary concern is magic defense though, which is the only thing that build does have going for it compared to what I have now. I may try to replace one or two of my LA gears with arcane if the bonuses warrant it in an effort to get my magic defense higher. The oht belt I have is there only until the TT90 is ready...which will also increase magic attack.

    After about 30+ attempts I gave up on oht wrists or boots...I still try chest armor when I can find the stones (have plenty of stamina material).

    Once I get 2 lunar rings I'll restat to arcane. For now this will work just fine.

    u can only lead a horse to water..
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • _Leiian_ - Heavens Tear
    _Leiian_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Wizs squishy. As archer and veno.
    And LA is thinked and made for archer, and not for wiz.
    Now I explain why to who hasnt understood or known the reason.

    LA gives more phys def, but needs more str and dex stats than AA.
    at lvl 80: 44str for AA vs 84 str 84 dex for LA.
    This means: -124 stat points on mag.

    Archer is dex made, so, putting points in dex and some in str it's good. cuz bows and other ranged weapons need dex and str.
    Wiz is mag made, doesnt need str or dex for weap.

    Less points on magic means:
    - less mp
    - less mp recovery rate
    - less mag atk and def.

    And then, anyway u must restat at lvl 90 if u're gone LA.

    Then, when ull' reach the endgame, u can see the differene between LA and AA made, on your magic atk.

    Another thing:
    LA doesnt means invincibility.
    A wiz that doesnt hit hard and run it's always a dead wiz. Also with LA.
    So, when u must anyway run away between hits, the best thing is going AA.
    With Vit if u like.
    AA vit made is always better than LA according to me. Just cuz u're not wasting ur points..

    btw, I love pure.
    I'm pure, and listen to me...
    when u're lvl 80, with 7k mp and u see them recovering fast also in battle...it's so nice.
    (I hate using pots. And clerics and wizzies love me,cuz I give them bunch of 100 mp or hp pots almost always cuz I dont need them. *_*)
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Why are we still talking about a build with a 1% crit rate? I don't even consider the points I have in dex wasted...the extra points in strength are the ones I could do without. Any build that reduces my crit rate by 5 to improve my magic defense is just not going to cut it.

    I got a midnight black pataka and my magic attack maxes over 8k unbuffed, so my primary concern is magic defense though, which is the only thing that build does have going for it compared to what I have now. I may try to replace one or two of my LA gears with arcane if the bonuses warrant it in an effort to get my magic defense higher. The oht belt I have is there only until the TT90 is ready...which will also increase magic attack.

    After about 30+ attempts I gave up on oht wrists or boots...I still try chest armor when I can find the stones (have plenty of stamina material).

    Once I get 2 lunar rings I'll restat to arcane. For now this will work just fine.

    You still talking about pataka and 8k damage. It's your max damage. How often you do this damage. Pataka has HUGE range of attack(that's why I hate it). Most of time you will hit MUCH lower. And this attack is absolutely unreliable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    me and Bramir dueled and compared damage on each other.

    We both did about the same damage on nukes.
    But on pyro, gush and SR i did 700-900 more damage.

    I liked how my BT did 3.2k to him and his BT did 3.3k to me and i have 1k less pdef than he does.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    me and Bramir dueled and compared damage on each other.

    We both did about the same damage on nukes.
    But on pyro, gush and SR i did 700-900 more damage.

    I liked how my BT did 3.2k to him and his BT did 3.3k to me and i have 1k less pdef than he does.

    700-900 is HUGE difference in PvP. Especially when you don't have end game weapon and refines. The difference will by even much more.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Do they even have the same weapon? same refines? same sharding? or use npc wand or something? Gear choice?
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    his weapon is better than mine

    +5 FC pataka with i forgot what shard

    i use +4 WoDF with 1 immac saph

    asl im 50 vit so i have 1k less matk than i would if i was pure.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    his weapon is better than mine

    +5 FC pataka with i forgot what shard

    i use +4 WoDF with 1 immac saph

    asl im 50 vit so i have 1k less matk than i would if i was pure.

    Hmm i see. Thank you for replying. BTW his weapon is actually pretty similar to yours in terms of damage, pataka having 300 magic attack lower low range around 500 magic attack more on the spike side if shards are the same and refines that you've told me.
  • Bramir - Dreamweaver
    Bramir - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Keep in mind that those damage differences were greatly affected by my lower magic resistance, and are not actually representative of offensive output.

    That was also before I restatted all points out of vit and dex that were not necessary. We need to do that test again and I need to borrow my wife's arcane armor to do it.

    And I think the difference went down to about 400 points after you got rid of your cleric buffs...
  • Xulin - Harshlands
    Xulin - Harshlands Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Arcane > LA.

    If you stay LA you will pretty much get oneshotted by endgame wizards.
    AA is for damage which wizards are for; we are designed to be squishy btw.
  • Inabikari - Raging Tide
    Inabikari - Raging Tide Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Xulin - Harshlands wrote: »
    Arcane > LA.

    If you stay LA you will pretty much get oneshotted by endgame wizards.
    AA is for damage which wizards are for; we are designed to be squishy btw.

    Before 90, though, it is much cheaper to go LA because it's cheaper. More PDef from armor = More HP shards. :D
    RIP Resolve. You guys still owe me TW pay. XD

    Varden- <3 you all!
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Xulin - Harshlands wrote: »
    Arcane > LA.

    If you stay LA you will pretty much get oneshotted by endgame wizards.
    AA is for damage which wizards are for; we are designed to be squishy btw.

    I disagree that wizards are meant to be squishy.. we already have high mdef, with decent gear and stone barrier, we have high pdef as well. Add in distance shrink and genie skills and a wizard is rly hard to take down.
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • Xulin - Harshlands
    Xulin - Harshlands Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Low HP = Squishy.

    After a purge a normal wiz is pretty much instant killed.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Xulin - Harshlands wrote: »
    Low HP = Squishy.

    After a purge a normal wiz is pretty much instant killed.

    Resists are just as important as hp when determining survivability. I dunno.. i run out of sz all the time just self buffed and I dont get instant killed, I dunno how much hp/pdef/mdef you have.. but sounds like u are doing something wrong XD
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • Xulin - Harshlands
    Xulin - Harshlands Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    :[

    I'm anything but squishy...

    Problem is your probably not used to having 5-6 people on you the whole time with no pots >.<
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    just because you get ganked/focused on doesnt mean you are squishy. Using that logic.. a barb is squishy because they die to 5-6 people. Besides a barb, wizards probably do 2nd best out of the 6 first classes at getting away.. domain if you are almost dead and just distance shrink out of trouble
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • Xulin - Harshlands
    Xulin - Harshlands Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I take it that you've never been focused hard lol.

    But thats not the point.

    Low HP after purge IS squishy.

    Comparing an unbuffed barb with a unbuffed wiz is like comparing pencil sharpener with a banana
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have been focused on many times... generally ends with me either getting killed (where it doesn't matter what class you were, you'd be dead) or me just using domain and shrinking back with barely any hp left (assuming this is in TW, wait for charm to tick again and then sneak around to the other side of the fight and keep going).

    There really isn't a definition of squishy anywhere, but if we were to use yours, everything would be considered squishy. A cata puller that is debuffed goes down in the blink of an eye when its focused on.. Squishy is a relative term, and given that we have stone barrier + distance shrink (and not LA).. I'd say we were one of the least squishy classes of the bunch (comparing to archers/clerics/veno's.. maybe even BM's)
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • Ladidel - Raging Tide
    Ladidel - Raging Tide Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Arcane armor is better only in the very end game; before of this, light armor is better.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ladidel - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Arcane armor is better only in the very end game; before of this, light armor is better.

    -This is hogwash. I won't bother saying why because this poster is too lazy or dishonest to substantiate their claim to begin with.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Riverwell - Archosaur
    Riverwell - Archosaur Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    necccrrrrrrrooooooooob:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -
    Previous Enemy Executor
    Current SentineI Member
    -
    "I'm sorry, but if you cant aggro control, then you better have the gear/charm to back yourself up. And falling short of that, you simply deserve to die. It's PWI darwinism tbh." - DaKillanator - Raging Tide
  • Lenestro - Sanctuary
    Lenestro - Sanctuary Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ladidel - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Arcane armor is better only in the very end game; before of this, light armor is better.

    getting to endgame has gotten so much easier since this thread was started. you could take the money you would use to restat your dex and just buy heads to 100.
  • AsimM - Raging Tide
    AsimM - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This thread should be dead by now. b:laugh

    Everyone knows the gimp in damage isn't worth the 20% better hp and critrate you get from LA.
    "I would say that the worst band ever, Black Eyed Peas, played at the 2011 Superbowl, but I couldn't possibly take that title away from Nickelback"

    - Drew Flowers
  • Hurrdurr - Lothranis
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis Posts: 1,468 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    AsimM - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This thread should be dead by now. b:laugh

    Everyone knows the gimp in damage isn't worth the 20% better hp and critrate you get from LA.

    You still get roflpwnt by my semi LA wiz b:cute
  • AsimM - Raging Tide
    AsimM - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Hurrdurr - Lothranis wrote: »
    You still get roflpwnt by my semi LA wiz b:cute

    Ily too NR. b:chuckle
    "I would say that the worst band ever, Black Eyed Peas, played at the 2011 Superbowl, but I couldn't possibly take that title away from Nickelback"

    - Drew Flowers
  • BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur
    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur Posts: 1,842 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    LA is fine until 80 or so, and the fact the reset notes are regularly on sale now makes it so that it actually costs less to reset to AA than it used to.

    But since nobody plays the early game anymore, and since rank gear (if there were any doubt left back in the summer of 2010) is so relatively cheap now, yes, light armor (and the mage vit build too, i might add) is finally and permanently dead.

    Necro indeed
    "And as for bragging, I don't need to brag. I am famous, yo. My accomplishments are legendary. I am BLOODMYSTIC, speaker of truth, bane of the Barbarians of Impulse, slayer of the **** of Narla, liberator of all the free peoples of the Archosaur server, former master propagandist for our leader in freedom, Proski, and Archtroll of the PWI Forums. And now? Amiable pve wizard, beloved by all, aka BLUEMYSTIC. Pleased to make your acquaintance."
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