Pure or LA?

MeNukez - Dreamweaver

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b0a2c4351324ddb7

As you can see I can lose some points from both dex and vitality to add to magic while remaining LA...

Enjoy your 6k magic def. fully buffed b:pleased

Bramir - Dreamweaver

If I can get my hands on a midnight black mold my magic attack will be 5k-8.2k at lvl97 after moving 5 points out of dex and all but 3 out of vitality. So when I get a good damage roll my attacks would be just about as strong as a pure wizzie...with realistic (for me) equipment options anyway...

Bramir - Dreamweaver

MeNukez - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Enjoy your 6k magic def. fully buffed b:pleased

I'll also enjoy my 6k physical defense...with only my own buff...and more my 500 or so more hps...

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Check this build (which is what I have on Ursa)

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=178061a45ed280b9

Take out the buffs and you'll see I have 6.6k pdef and 5.1k HP, self buffed, while being full mag.
You hope to have 5k-8.2k attk at lvl 97? I have unbuffed 9.3k at low end.
Really, when you hit someone endgame with a 5k base magic dmg that guy will die...laughing.

MeNukez - Dreamweaver

U forget that what hits the hardest end game is magic.
And 6k pdef selfbuffed isnt a big deal ,pdef diff. with a proper built arcane gear will be minor which is non-factor.Double the magic defense is .
Just an advice,if youre keeping light armor get atleast some magic ornaments atleast a belt to cover the lack of m.def which La provides b:bye
Oh and about the hp part you get about 130+ points open,restating to pure like many said before if you cant provide the survability needed,adding a portion of those points to vit(50 is what most usualy do)fills the gap out while still enjoying the +'s that pure gives over la.(altough i would never do this,dont have the heart to gimp my dmg even if its so little on any of my chars cept my barb ,would just do some reselling and tt farming to get some money to refine a lil higher or put better shards in).

Ursa - Dreamweaver

meh, he knows better.
Endgame basically 4 out of six classes will 1 shot him with magic:
Archer and Cleric - metal/magic debuff + metal skill/nuke
Wizard - just lol, I want to see a Glacial Snare on him with a undine+posion.
Veno - lol at wood resistance.

Adroit - Lost City

Ok, besides the fact you are a one shot to any magic class.. I took on the challenge of getting more pdef/mdef/hp AND matk than you by using arcane armor. I used the exact same refines/number and grade of shards you used. As for the boots and wrists, being that it is random stats, I just chose the exact same stats as the ones that I am wearing (that I made for myself) so that its fairly realistic. I figure both builds would cost about the same.. so I'm curious why you are LA.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=037111add11d7521

Now I wouldn't really use this build for myself, I would have better gear and I would switch out the pdef shards for hp shards (because I have a lunar ring and other things that give me alot of pdef.. and I prefer having more hp than pdef because hp helps with both magic and physical atks). I just used the above build so that there is no way that you can argue LA has more survivability than arcane.

MeNukez - Dreamweaver

I refined your build alil Adroit .
Hell even left the pataka if he likes it so much b:chuckle,used only 50vit,and a better tome same grade ie. lvl .
Same pdef,bout 1,8k attack more,almost double the magic def,and even a lil more hp.
So yea your build is only better if you want a meele char and are to lazy to reroll so you poke your enemies to death with your pataka(sry dont see an other use for it b:surrender )

Ooops here it is

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3fac83438cff1293


P.s. love the new design tytyty for not burning my eyes anymoar

Bramir - Dreamweaver

"Fixing" my build with gear that may not even exist on the server is pretty amusing.

Also notice the 1% crit rate...

Adroit - Lost City

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"Fixing" my build with gear that may not even exist on the server is pretty amusing.

Also notice the 1% crit rate...

You don't need to find gear with these exact stats, but finding a decent OHT pair of boots/wrists is extremely easy on LC, I'd guess its the same for DW. Being that you can decompose any bad pair into perfect stones, it pays for itself just making a ton of bad pairs looking for one decent one.. When I used to buy tears of heaven (and do my OHT daily) for 15-20k ea.. make pairs and decompose the bad ones for perfect stones. For the wrists, it takes 3 tears (60k) and 7 lumistone/golden skulpture which are basically free if you do any GV/HH/cube. I used to sell the perfect stones for 1.5k ea, and made alot of money and ended up with this pretty decent pair. Obviously prices are going to be different there, but I still can't see you buying a pair in AH for more than your HH, or just making a pair for yourself being very expensive. As for the crit, beggars can't be choosers, having 6% crit is nothing to be proud of either.. You can easily hit 10+ crit with some DECENT gears that you somehow can't afford.

Karmay - Sanctuary

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"Fixing" my build with gear that may not even exist on the server is pretty amusing.

Those stats on OHT gear is pretty common actually, I see stuff like that in the Auction House all the time for 150-300k.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

6% crit is the minimum tbh. Not that hard to get.

As for OHT shoes, I've been massively unlucky with them recently... my 2x94 pdef vit5 ones are MIA

Adroit - Lost City

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

6% crit is the minimum tbh. Not that hard to get.

As for OHT shoes, I've been massively unlucky with them recently... my 2x94 pdef vit5 ones are MIA

and what made you arrive at 6%? Besides that, the build I made was very limited to n00b gears. Obviously anybody building their character with a reasonable budget (even without cash shop) can easily get some crit via rings/weapon etc

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

I arrived at 6 as it's pretty easy to get even on a budget, 2 2% crit rings and a christmas tome.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

and what made you arrive at 6%? Besides that, the build I made was very limited to n00b gears. Obviously anybody building their character with a reasonable budget (even without cash shop) can easily get some crit via rings/weapon etc

You used gear that is randomly determined and doesn't necessarily exist. You claim it is easy to get, but my experience and that of others is different. If I found it in the AH it would cost nearly as much as good TT99 or lunar. But I won't find it in the AH because those who get lucky and make them don't sell them.

I think you are full of **** and need your cash shop more than you let on.

Thank you to those few who offered reasonable suggestions. I've decided that if I can obtain good enough gear I will restat to arcane once I have it. LA works just fine and I'm not paying 50 million+ to get a fairly small bonus to magic attack...so if I get the gear that will make a big difference I will switch.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

6% crit is the minimum tbh. Not that hard to get.

As for OHT shoes, I've been massively unlucky with them recently... my 2x94 pdef vit5 ones are MIA

i got wristband with 94*2 pdef +105 hp but only 2sock b:cry with shoes i dont event try because i thinking on 2% crit shoes. i want go chest becuse atm i have 94*2pdef but without sock rofl (was with 2sock but that missed the earth def )

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You used gear that is randomly determined and doesn't necessarily exist. You claim it is easy to get, but my experience and that of others is different. If I found it in the AH it would cost nearly as much as good TT99 or lunar. But I won't find it in the AH because those who get lucky and make them don't sell them.

I think you are full of **** and need your cash shop more than you let on.

Thank you to those few who offered reasonable suggestions. I've decided that if I can obtain good enough gear I will restat to arcane once I have it. LA works just fine and I'm not paying 50 million+ to get a fairly small bonus to magic attack...so if I get the gear that will make a big difference I will switch.

if you wanna be a cheap a$$ damage dealer you chose the wrong class.
Wizard is not a class for people on a budget, unless you expect to kill only mobs...and even that, slowly.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if you wanna be a cheap a$$ damage dealer you chose the wrong class.
Wizard is not a class for people on a budget, unless you expect to kill only mobs...and even that, slowly.

Or you can use a LA build and get most of what you want without having to spend lots of real money. If you try to restat to arcane without the proper funds you will gain nothing and waste what money you do have.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

oh, cool, so you want to be a rich fail wizard?
You better have your bank full of coins than to be broke, have more magic dmg and survival?
your choice.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

oh, cool, so you want to be a rich fail wizard?
You better have your bank full of coins than to be broke, have more magic dmg and survival?
your choice.

No I'm just saying that I am nowhere close to being able to afford the gear to restat to arcane without gimping myself in some way, and that most people in my situation are going to have the same problem unless they spend a lot of real money. If I spent what money I had to restat now, my arcane gear would suck and I would become super squishy for only modest increase in magic attack. I would then be a poor, fail, arcane build.

Now, if I slowly start putting together a set of arcane equipment then maybe I'll be able to restat at some point in the distant future, but my gear needs to be ready first. This is the point a lot of people asking about restatting are not told on these boards...it is incorrect to say that an arcane build is better for everyone at lvl90+ because without certain pieces of very expensive gear it falls flat. One needs to get that gear first and then start looking at restatting.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

I never said an arcane wizard is cheap to build and I don't remember anyone saying otherwise in all the threads that lowbies started on this forum.
To have a good wizard you need one (or both) of the following:
- A helluva' lot of time to farm for coins with either the wizard or a veno alt.
- A CC.

if you have both and some skills, that's going to be a scary endgame char.
if you have one you'll be fine.
If you have none, just roll a barb.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I never said an arcane wizard is cheap to build and I don't remember anyone saying otherwise in all the threads that lowbies started on this forum.
To have a good wizard you need one (or both) of the following:
- A helluva' lot of time to farm for coins with either the wizard or a veno alt.
- A CC.

if you have both and some skills, that's going to be a scary endgame char.
if you have one you'll be fine.
If you have none, just roll a barb.

Its not that people won't say its expensive when asked...the problem is that whever someone asks about LA vs. arcane there is a chorus of bleating sheep saying arcane is better and LA wizzies better restat at 90+. Generally there is no mention of cost on that side of the argument until someone else brings it up. I think people get the impression that a restat is a good idea no matter what, when they need to be considering exactly what is gained and lost by doing so, and whether what is gained is actually worth the enormous cost.

Nukesrus - Harshlands

It'll cost a good bit, around 5-6mil to restat at the 9x levels. What's gained is the ability to kill endgame opponents who are geared appropriately.

LA was a viable endgame build in times past, when TT90 gear was the best players could aspire to. Times have changed. If you aren't sporting a +8 weapon and pure mag, you're not going to have a chance in high-level play. Blame it on anni packs or what have you, but facts are facts.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

of couse ppl don't go into costs.
LA vs Arcane question it's just that: LA vs Arcane.
If you compare what gear can you have for a fixed amount of cash (200 mil lets say) , then yes, you might be better with a LA up to 95.
After 95 I see no reason for LA, regardless of how much cash you have or miss. That's the point where a char gets into endgame area and at that point you either reroll or be competitive. And at that lvl, LA wizard it's just not competitive.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I would say. LA=cheap AA=expensive BUT much more powerful.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

It'll cost a good bit, around 5-6mil to restat at the 9x levels. What's gained is the ability to kill endgame opponents who are geared appropriately.

LA was a viable endgame build in times past, when TT90 gear was the best players could aspire to. Times have changed. If you aren't sporting a +8 weapon and pure mag, you're not going to have a chance in high-level play. Blame it on anni packs or what have you, but facts are facts.

Cost is more like 50-60 million the way I see it...but otherwise I agree with you.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

of couse ppl don't go into costs.
LA vs Arcane question it's just that: LA vs Arcane.
If you compare what gear can you have for a fixed amount of cash (200 mil lets say) , then yes, you might be better with a LA up to 95.
After 95 I see no reason for LA, regardless of how much cash you have or miss. That's the point where a char gets into endgame area and at that point you either reroll or be competitive. And at that lvl, LA wizard it's just not competitive.

A lot of it depends on what you mean by competitive. Having 1k less magic attack than fully geared arcane wizards is little different than comparing the builds of someone with a +5 weapon to someone with a +8 weapon. Not having the 'best' does not make someone uncompetitive...especially in TW where there is a lot more going on than comparing numbers.

Nukesrus - Harshlands

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Its not that people won't say its expensive when asked...the problem is that whever someone asks about LA vs. arcane there is a chorus of bleating sheep saying arcane is better and LA wizzies better restat at 90+. Generally there is no mention of cost on that side of the argument until someone else brings it up. I think people get the impression that a restat is a good idea no matter what, when they need to be considering exactly what is gained and lost by doing so, and whether what is gained is actually worth the enormous cost.

I was referring to just the raw re-stat costs. if you're ok with some down time in-game, you can always sell your current LA gear and use the cash to replace it with AA gear. Alternatively, you can use crappy gear and farm TT90 items to tide you over. There's ways to do it without costing a ton, but it takes time.

But really, what else would you be doing with that time? I mean there's only so much you can do in PWI anyway.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A lot of it depends on what you mean by competitive. Having 1k less magic attack than fully geared arcane wizards is little different than comparing the builds of someone with a +5 weapon to someone with a +8 weapon. Not having the 'best' does not make someone uncompetitive...especially in TW where there is a lot more going on than comparing numbers.

ok, if in your mind the diff is just 1k mag attk between LA and AA then I'm just wasting my time here.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ok, if in your mind the diff is just 1k mag attk between LA and AA then I'm just wasting my time here.

Did you miss the part of the discussion where we actually compared magic attack bonuses? It may be that a LA build needs a different weapon than arcane...

Physical defense between the two builds is about the same, and the increased hps from LA refining and HP shards make up for the lower magic defense. So the only thing gained from the arcane build is about 1k magic attack that is not compensated for in some other way. So admittedly arcane is the better build at 95+...but not by a whole lot and it is a lot more expensive.