Pure or LA?

Adroit - Lost City

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've been LA since the beginning and never really considered switching to pure. Here is why:

1. Damage difference is small as long as you have a weapon that has high damage...no keeping your tt80 until lvl95 here. I recommend trying to get a frost pataka...

Who the hell uses a frost pataka?

2. You can actually spark against bosses without getting agro (most of the time anyway) pretty much every time you build up enough chi. This solves your reduced damage and reduced mana against bosses. Some care has to be taken to not spark right away or when the tank is lower level...

A good tank can hold aggro even on pure mages

3. A crit from a wizzie is death for most people of similar level in PvP, whether its a LA wizzie or pure. LA does it a lot more often and when you hit 10 people with an AoE, there is a pretty good chance at least one of those will be a crit.

Only on a n00b pve server

4. I can hit stuff first, particularly FB and TT mobs which squishies tend to wait for established agro before attacking and tend to have brutal physical attacks. I get hit back and usually survive regardless of the damage type because the physical mobs do no more damage than the magic mobs. This also means you can hit groups with AoE before they start running around and if the tanks miss agro on a couple mobs you won't die before they see the problem. So you get to use your AoEs (not just DB) all the time rather than in rare circumstances.

Arcane has more survivability than LA end game, I've explained this over and over and over to n00bs that don't understand in the past

5. LA build also turns the tables on archers and BMs in TW and PvP. You will survive long enough to hit back, which is really bad news for them in most cases.

Read above.

In the end though to enjoy a LA wizzie you have to use a different playing style than a pure wizzie. Think of yourself as a BM with fewer hps but much greater damage output and take it to the enemy rather than waiting in the back for it to be 'safe'.

And regarding the opinion that a lightly armored wizard is some sort of abomination, I say that opinion is an abomination. Lightly armored wizards have been around for decades (basically since the first pen and paper fantasy RPGs), and are no more an abomination than elves are.

I know this is the same necro as before.. but I can't help myself.. this is just so fking bad.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I know this is the same necro as before.. but I can't help myself.. this is just so fking bad.

Yeah, I'm a complete noob who has been deciphering RPG rules systems for 25 years...

You need to go check your numbers, (particularly on that frost pataka), reread your spell descriptions (this might require some remedial math on your part as well), and then get back to us once you know wtf you are talking about.

And regarding survivability at high levels, I must spend hundreds of real dollars to get the gear to survive as arcane when that is just not necessary with a LA build. Not every lvl95 wizzie can afford two lunar rings and to refine all their equipment to +5...

Adroit - Lost City

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a complete noob who has been deciphering RPG rules systems for 25 years...

You need to go check your numbers, (particularly on that frost pataka), reread your spell descriptions (this might require some remedial math on your part as well), and then get back to us once you know wtf you are talking about.

And regarding survivability at high levels, I must spend hundreds of real dollars to get the gear to survive as arcane when that is just not necessary with a LA build. Not every lvl95 wizzie can afford two lunar rings and to refine all their equipment to +5...

Specifically, which spell descriptions would u like me to re-read?

You don't need all +5 gear to have more survivability than LA. Equivalent gear you get more survivability on arcane, unless you are fail and can't build your character.

You must be one of the worst 9x mages I've seen around. What makes it so terrible is you try to make it seem like you know what you are talking about, when you don't know the first thing about this game.

DrunkWizard - Lost City

im still a nub wizard but imo LA is the expensive way of being a wizard since most of them end restating to become AA at 90 lol b:shutup

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Specifically, which spell descriptions would u like me to re-read?

You don't need all +5 gear to have more survivability than LA. Equivalent gear you get more survivability on arcane, unless you are fail and can't build your character.

You must be one of the worst 9x mages I've seen around. What makes it so terrible is you try to make it seem like you know what you are talking about, when you don't know the first thing about this game.

Equivalent gear to what? Where do you get your physical defense from? If you get it from shards then where do your hps come from? Looked up that pataka yet? Got anything other than the popular gamer jargon to back up your points?


You have never seen me play, and once again you are just babbling nonsense where you should be presenting numbers to show all us noobs on DW the light...instead you make vague allegations about a build you have not seen.

The spell descriptions you are needing to review are all of the ones where damage is determined almost entirely by weapon damage and the magic attribute is factored in only where it affects magic attack...which is counted once. All the 2 spark AoEs, sandstorm, glacial snare, divine pyrogram, etc.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Equivalent gear to what? Where do you get your physical defense from? If you get it from shards then where do your hps come from? Looked up that pataka yet? Got anything other than the popular gamer jargon to back up your points?


You have never seen me play, and once again you are just babbling nonsense where you should be presenting numbers to show all us noobs on DW the light...instead you make vague allegations about a build you have not seen.

The spell descriptions you are needing to review are all of the ones where damage is determined almost entirely by weapon damage and the magic attribute is factored in only where it affects magic attack...which is counted once. All the 2 spark AoEs, sandstorm, glacial snare, divine pyrogram, etc.

You're are terribly wrong. You really don't understand mechanics in this game. I'm not gonna looking for formula which would tell you, that from some amount of p.def we can say 9000 is not worth to have more p.def because damage reduction is neglectable. I have buffed 8400 p. def now and I'm far away from end game gear. BUT your attack power is always necessary. Also I have 12% critic with -24% channeling. I can guarantee you, that my survivability at least at magic classes is much higher than yours. And I would bet that I could kill you in seconds. You are lack to damage and magical defense.

To have huge p.def from LA end game wizard is USELESS because damage reduction gained from this huge p.def is VERY small.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're are terribly wrong. You really don't understand mechanics in this game. I'm not gonna looking for formula which would tell you, that from some amount of p.def we can say 9000 is not worth to have more p.def because damage reduction is neglectable. I have buffed 8400 p. def now and I'm far away from end game gear. BUT your attack power is always necessary. Also I have 12% critic with -24% channeling. I can guarantee you, that my survivability at least at magic classes is much higher than yours. And I would bet that I could kill you in seconds. You are lack to damage and magical defense.

To have huge p.def from LA end game wizard is USELESS because damage reduction gained from this huge p.def is VERY small.

And I'm telling you it is much, much easier to get to that 9-10k physical defense if you are LA, and it has less impact on damage than people think. If you have -24 channeling and 12% crit rate than you are cash-shopped to a great degree, and while that doesn't make you bad in any way, it does make you less qualified to tell me I'm wrong about whether LA is just as good as arcane because it is a completely different situation for you. Two lunar rings I'm guessing? +5 or greater refinement level on all armor? Tell me I am wrong...

If I had a couple hundred dollars to spend to restat and get all those gears I certainly would. However, I'm not going to spend that kind of money to get a small increase in my damage...

Exitium - Dreamweaver

How is damage reduction calculated with pdef? O.o

Adroit - Lost City

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Equivalent gear to what? Where do you get your physical defense from? If you get it from shards then where do your hps come from? Looked up that pataka yet? Got anything other than the popular gamer jargon to back up your points?


You have never seen me play, and once again you are just babbling nonsense where you should be presenting numbers to show all us noobs on DW the light...instead you make vague allegations about a build you have not seen.

The spell descriptions you are needing to review are all of the ones where damage is determined almost entirely by weapon damage and the magic attribute is factored in only where it affects magic attack...which is counted once. All the 2 spark AoEs, sandstorm, glacial snare, divine pyrogram, etc.

Equivalent gear for LA and arcane. I get my pdef from ornaments, cape of elite leather, one lunar ring, and I get alot from the blue stats on my OHT gear. I have 6.8k pdef self buffed right now, which is plenty. One of the other advantages arcane has over LA is the stat requirements, so you can throw some points in vit which also increases your hp. I get most of my hp (5.1k unbuffed) from refines/stats on gear (obviously) and a little bit from vit (50 vit in so 500 hp).

I've gone over the numbers over and over and over and over and over... just try the search feature, I'm not going to type up another page of stuff just because you are too lazy to research it yourself.

I have not even mentioned the damage difference. I'm well aware that a good portion of the damage comes from the weapon multiplier and damage from the actual skill, the magic attack is just a static addition to just about every skill. Obviously there is more of a difference between LA and arcane when you use triple spark, or when comparing lesser damage skills such as gush/pyro.

So I just looked up the pataka, I'm guessing this is the one you are referring to.
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/16102
I don't know what makes you think this is so good.. + magic atk is nice, but all the other stats are for pdef.. being that you can get pdef off any of your gear, but magic attack are crit etc are almost exclusively (except for some event items) on the weapon/rings.. most people use their weapons to get the stats they can't get on other pieces of gear. The average damage of the pataka is the same as all the other frost weapons, but has a bad damage range. Getting a lunar wep or HH 99 gold wep would be much better.

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree with you that the difference between arcane and light armors is important for "fast" skill gush and pyro.

But I think it will not be very noticeable with triple spark.

well the triple spark does increase your weapon dmg by 700%, hmm I guess it might not be that noticeable, it would be a little extra, but meh

MagicHamsta - Lost City

yea......b:surrender

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And I'm telling you it is much, much easier to get to that 9-10k physical defense if you are LA, and it has less impact on damage than people think. If you have -24 channeling and 12% crit rate than you are cash-shopped to a great degree, and while that doesn't make you bad in any way, it does make you less qualified to tell me I'm wrong about whether LA is just as good as arcane because it is a completely different situation for you. Two lunar rings I'm guessing? +5 or greater refinement level on all armor? Tell me I am wrong...

If I had a couple hundred dollars to spend to restat and get all those gears I certainly would. However, I'm not going to spend that kind of money to get a small increase in my damage...

You pretty right about me. Except 2 lunar rings ( I have just one and second is 2% critical +90hp rank ring.) you pretty right. :-) And refines you right also I have +5 everything even +6. But +5 orb is not so expensive. 5M? It's not so hard to save it. b:pleased
But I can have p.def from ornaments but you cannot increase magic attack except refining. You loosing lot of power with putting points to strength and dex. Also If I have good -channeling gear I will critic more often. Example. If you launch 40 spells per minute I will launch 50. So I have bigger probability to critic. You have higher critic from dex. In this case I have higher critic from -channeling. So it became more equal in compare with you in long run.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You pretty right about me. Except 2 lunar rings ( I have just one and second is 2% critical +90hp rank ring.) you pretty right. :-) And refines you right also I have +5 everything even +6. But +5 orb is not so expensive. 5M? It's not so hard to save it. b:pleased
But I can have p.def from ornaments but you cannot increase magic attack except refining. You loosing lot of power with putting points to strength and dex. Also If I have good -channeling gear I will critic more often. Example. If you launch 40 spells per minute I will launch 50. So I have bigger probability to critic. You have higher critic from dex. In this case I have higher critic from -channeling. So it became more equal in compare with you in long run.

I guess maybe what I'm arguing here is that while a pure build is perfect if you have perfect gear, LA gets a lot of the same defensive benefits as well as crit rate for a whole lot cheaper. For a very concrete example, end-game LA refined to +4 is about the same as end-game arcane gear refined to +5 for hp bonus isn't it? That is like 30 million saved right there.

The lunar rings are very nice...I hope someday to get one but at this point they are well beyond my means and I actually do spend a little real money on this character. But I don't consider them a necessity to be an effective wizard...

Ursa - Dreamweaver

well Bramir, my gear on Ursa looks something like this:
2 lunar rings+3
Neon purgatory +7 with saphire gem
TT90 pants +5
OHT top with 200HP bonus +4
TT90 gold sleeves +5
2x216 pdef robe +5
Anni pack boots and hat, both +6
-24 channel (-33 with 2 mdef ornaments -6 and -3) and 13% crit.

No equipment has more than 3 sockets and beside 5 Perfect HP shards the rest are immaculates.

Now, please, tell me why I should be a LA and where would be the advantage in that?



You know how much gold I charged since september last year until december to get that gear? about 100$, and 50 of them were to refine the Neon to +7 and the hat to +6 and the first 50 I blew it on the first day of anni packs.

I have 5.2k HP, 9.4k mattk and 6.5k pdef self buffed, 6.6k HP and 10.4k mattk and 10.xxx pdef/mdef full buffed. And october/november/december I hardly played, I was ingame for dailies and TW only, no TT farm...no coin farm.

Adroit - Lost City

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I guess maybe what I'm arguing here is that while a pure build is perfect if you have perfect gear, LA gets a lot of the same defensive benefits as well as crit rate for a whole lot cheaper. For a very concrete example, end-game LA refined to +4 is about the same as end-game arcane gear refined to +5 for hp bonus isn't it? That is like 30 million saved right there.

The lunar rings are very nice...I hope someday to get one but at this point they are well beyond my means and I actually do spend a little real money on this character. But I don't consider them a necessity to be an effective wizard...

I guess it would be easier for you to make a LA build, and then me use equal gears to make an arcane build, perhaps you want to put your build up for scrutiny? b:chuckle

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a complete noob who has been deciphering RPG rules systems for 25 years...

You need to go check your numbers, (particularly on that frost pataka), reread your spell descriptions (this might require some remedial math on your part as well), and then get back to us once you know wtf you are talking about.

And regarding survivability at high levels, I must spend hundreds of real dollars to get the gear to survive as arcane when that is just not necessary with a LA build. Not every lvl95 wizzie can afford two lunar rings and to refine all their equipment to +5...

arent you that LA wiz with the pataka and might rings who was in Bushido

b:surrenderWhy would a LA wiz use might rings...

Ursa - Dreamweaver

for pdef coming from refines, lol.

Anyways, he's decided not to die on phys classes, but he's not thinking at a veno/cleric/wizard/archer and BM that can basically debuff and 1 shot him.

Kado_kawa - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

for pdef coming from refines, lol.

Anyways, he's decided not to die on phys classes, but he's not thinking at a veno/cleric/wizard/archer and BM that can basically debuff and 1 shot him.

I guess this come from your personal fail experience right? b:chuckle

Kado_kawa - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well Bramir, my gear on Ursa looks something like this:
2 lunar rings+3
Neon purgatory +7 with saphire gem
TT90 pants +5
OHT top with 200HP bonus +4
TT90 gold sleeves +5
2x216 pdef robe +5
Anni pack boots and hat, both +6
-24 channel (-33 with 2 mdef ornaments -6 and -3) and 13% crit.

No equipment has more than 3 sockets and beside 5 Perfect HP shards the rest are immaculates.

Now, please, tell me why I should be a LA and where would be the advantage in that?



You know how much gold I charged since september last year until december to get that gear? about 100$, and 50 of them were to refine the Neon to +7 and the hat to +6 and the first 50 I blew it on the first day of anni packs.

I have 5.2k HP, 9.4k mattk and 6.5k pdef self buffed, 6.6k HP and 10.4k mattk and 10.xxx pdef/mdef full buffed. And october/november/december I hardly played, I was ingame for dailies and TW only, no TT farm...no coin farm.

showing off your gears again Utfailsa?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

fail troll?

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

arent you that LA wiz with the pataka and might rings who was in Bushido

b:surrenderWhy would a LA wiz use might rings...

If you saw me with one might ring on I was likely beating on something rather than using my wizard skills just beforehand. One of the very minor benefits to the LA build is getting to beat down magic resist mobs without using several thousand MP. It goes a little faster if you put on a might ring...

If you saw a wizard with two might rings on it was not me.

Karmay - Sanctuary

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You have never seen me play, and once again you are just babbling nonsense where you should be presenting numbers to show all us noobs on DW the light...instead you make vague allegations about a build you have not seen.

All the LA mages use this same argument even though the numbers for both sides have been posted and re-posted a thousand times. It's like a cult response or something.

If history repeats itself, next will be swapping light armor and arcane armor depending on the situation and somehow refine both of them without consideration for price.

(NOTE: I'm not saying LA is bad.)

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I guess maybe what I'm arguing here is that while a pure build is perfect if you have perfect gear, LA gets a lot of the same defensive benefits as well as crit rate for a whole lot cheaper. For a very concrete example, end-game LA refined to +4 is about the same as end-game arcane gear refined to +5 for hp bonus isn't it? That is like 30 million saved right there.

The lunar rings are very nice...I hope someday to get one but at this point they are well beyond my means and I actually do spend a little real money on this character. But I don't consider them a necessity to be an effective wizard...

Ok. But then we have to say, LA in not better but cheaper. Then I agree for sure.

kenlee

lvl 96 and still considering that LA is better for survivability???

Bramir - Dreamweaver

So I did some calculations and planning and I can have close to 8k magic attack by level 100 with my current lvl 90 equipment. It will go well over 8k when I start to improve that equipment. My magic attribute will be about 370 at that point just by continuing to move vitality points into magic as I replace the hps through other means. So where is this big damage advantage arcane users supposedly get for the huge amount of money they have to spend to be not-so-squishy anymore?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So I did some calculations and planning and I can have close to 8k magic attack by level 100 with my current lvl 90 equipment. It will go well over 8k when I start to improve that equipment. My magic attribute will be about 370 at that point just by continuing to move vitality points into magic as I replace the hps through other means. So where is this big damage advantage arcane users supposedly get for the huge amount of money they have to spend to be not-so-squishy anymore?

Give us your calculation.

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Give us your calculation.

Currently my magic attack is like 7080. Each 5 points of magic I add increases that by another 80 or so. I will add 15 points of magic from leveling, and another 30 from restats, so about another 720 giving me 7800 magic attack.

My low-end magic attack will be fairly low until I switch to a better weapon at lvl100 or so, at which point it will be raised significantly while max will stay about the same.

I get a lot of magic from equipment bonuses...TT90 cape (essentially +27 magic for a LA wizard), OHT belt with +7 magic, lvl11 3* chest with +6 magic, etc. And like I tried to point out earlier, the frost pataka hits very hard.

Adroit - Lost City

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Currently my magic attack is like 7080. Each 5 points of magic I add increases that by another 80 or so. I will add 15 points of magic from leveling, and another 30 from restats, so about another 720 giving me 7800 magic attack.

My low-end magic attack will be fairly low until I switch to a better weapon at lvl100 or so, at which point it will be raised significantly while max will stay about the same.

I get a lot of magic from equipment bonuses...TT90 cape (essentially +27 magic for a LA wizard), OHT belt with +7 magic, lvl11 3* chest with +6 magic, etc. And like I tried to point out earlier, the frost pataka hits very hard.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/
post your character on this. Makes it a whole lot easier to see what you are working with. Don't forget to hit save and post up the link it gives you after you are done XD

Bramir - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/
post your character on this. Makes it a whole lot easier to see what you are working with. Don't forget to hit save and post up the link it gives you after you are done XD

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b0a2c4351324ddb7

As you can see I can lose some points from both dex and vitality to add to magic while remaining LA...

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Currently my magic attack is like 7080. Each 5 points of magic I add increases that by another 80 or so. I will add 15 points of magic from leveling, and another 30 from restats, so about another 720 giving me 7800 magic attack.

My low-end magic attack will be fairly low until I switch to a better weapon at lvl100 or so, at which point it will be raised significantly while max will stay about the same.

I get a lot of magic from equipment bonuses...TT90 cape (essentially +27 magic for a LA wizard), OHT belt with +7 magic, lvl11 3* chest with +6 magic, etc. And like I tried to point out earlier, the frost pataka hits very hard.

my matk is 6.2k-8k O.o

and im using a +4 90 glaive


EDIT: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0b281e8b42aafd5e
thats what im working towards right now. When i can finally get lunar rings i can take out pdef shards and replace with HP ones.