Pure or LA?

xxlegendzxx

Hi, i am making a wizard and i gave it 2 mil for items and blah blah but what should the build be? pure? or LA?

Rule - Heavens Tear

Play for 20 levels and decide. Spend your first 20 levs going pure, if you decide to swap, spend the next few switching your stats up to wear LA. Go read Pandora's guide regarding LA and the other guides regarding Pure Int.

Pirodar - Sanctuary

Who is this question directed towards? Pure wizards or LA wizards?
Do You realize there are both groups of players and somehow each refuses to admit to be wrong? Well they are not wrong and it’s a matter of preference I guess.

I have a philosophical take on this and probably shouldn’t say anything but You asked for it, so here is my opinion:

LA wizards are an abomination. Something that shouldn’t exist at all. Why do they exist? Well it turns out this game is broken and players have to look for workarounds. And LA wizards are workarounds that work in practice and they even work quite well.

Rule - Heavens Tear

Something bizzare about your fomatting on that Pirodar, makes quotes not work right. Neither side is "wrong" both have different takes and opinions. Totally different playstyles. (pretty sure this is agreeing with what you are saying)
Philisophical views on the other hand.......

Rule - Heavens Tear

Duplicate...

Pirodar - Sanctuary

I'm sorry about the formatting. It was copied and pasted from Word, which I used as a spellchecker. I had problems with it at first too, but after using the option "Edit" and pasting again, it looked ok. It seems it's not a plain text, what comes from Word. I'll use some workaround next time

Rule - Heavens Tear

I'd just try pasting it into notepad to strip the formatting.

Norina - Dreamweaver

I'm playing a pure mage. Mostly because I'm told it's a horrible way to go. Who knows, somewhere around level 60 I may say to myself, "Hrm, maybe light armor would have been a bit easier."

But... 44 levels in, it's a blast. What does it matter how many hit points I have if nothing touches me? Yeah, I do get hit, and my heart races as I struggle to get in the air ASAP and get the aggro away.

It's on the edge all the time. Surprise spawns make me squeal and run, every pull is a flirtation with death.

You can't skimp on pots, powders, and regens. Guard your HP like a precious newborn, because it's just that fragile.

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

I went from 1-45 or so pure, then restated light and never looked back. I lost maybe 200 damage, and gained the ability to tank fb 39 at lvl 50. Its a matter of preference, but its never wrong no matter which way you go

Ursa - Dreamweaver

I have another take on this, personal opinion:
I play pure wizz. Reason: I like to maximize the damage I make and other classes cand hardly rival a wizz in dmg/sec. Last night I was doing some Mantis quest and I was killing mobs faster than a same lvl veno with Magmite pet. Survivability of a wizz is very much connected to its capacity of dealing a huge amount of dps. Yeah, one can **** on dps and build some LA wizz that will increase the wizz survival, but for me that ain't workin'. If you're on a PvP server, it makes sense. On a PvE server it doesn't. Killing mobs faster helps u with lvl-up/money making so u can buy some really really good Arcane with pdef and sockets filled with pdefs shards. That and the EB on + priest buff, you're pretty much set. U can tank fb39 at lvl 50, np.

Rule - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have another take on this, personal opinion:
I play pure wizz. Reason: I like to maximize the damage I make and other classes cand hardly rival a wizz in dmg/sec. Last night I was doing some Mantis quest and I was killing mobs faster than a same lvl veno with Magmite pet. Survivability of a wizz is very much connected to its capacity of dealing a huge amount of dps. Yeah, one can **** on dps and build some LA wizz that will increase the wizz survival, but for me that ain't workin'. If you're on a PvP server, it makes sense. On a PvE server it doesn't. Killing mobs faster helps u with lvl-up/money making so u can buy some really really good Arcane with pdef and sockets filled with pdefs shards. That and the EB on + priest buff, you're pretty much set. U can tank fb39 at lvl 50, np.

Dmg difference really is minimal. Tested over and over. There are MANY times when being a LA garners benefits. Rebirth Order, Dragon Temple, TW, PK, Zhen to name a few. Not to mention the whole LIVING thing. There are several different threads that innumerate the dmg difference vs crit % etc. What it comes down to is a choice. Do you want to be able to wear robes AND light armor or do you want to do some extra dmg. A few hundred points difference per spell doesn't matter that much to me, if it means one extra spell at the end of my sequence...meh.
Archers out DPS wizzies consitently, pull aggro and die. This is still a massive problem for wizzies, at least as LA you've got a few more hits for the tank to grab aggro again before you die. If your answer here is ...well just don't cast or use little spells etc... defeats the purpose of your build.

Neither build is particularly superior to the other, both have thier upsides. Both have thier rabid fans.

Magicz - Dreamweaver

Arcane gives more m.def which most of the mobs will use at a ranged fight. Also I think you could save more mana and that would help too, because of you don't use as many skills to kill.

Rule - Heavens Tear

LA has the option to use either armor LA or Arcane. They can be swapped at need.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

true, but with double the costs.
and each time you upgrade a full set of armor, u actually have to upgrade 2? meh...not for me.

I tried a LA wizz on Sanctuary, and in my book it was a fail.
A cleric same lvl did more dmg than me so the purpose of the wizz was !?. Cleric can heal too, so no need for a wizz there. Now with pure build this changes a bit. Wizz starts to have a useful place in the game.

This can go on forever, as someone already said here, both build have ups and downs. Matter of personal taste in the end.

Xhinzo - Harshlands

The answer to all of these questions is rediculously simple:

Mana Shield. At which point will the developers give us the one skill that would allow us to become more competitive in PvP?

With the addition of just one skill, no one would ever have to feel stupid about using a pure mage come level 30 on the PvP servers.

Skill description,

For 10 seconds users mana will be subtracted up to a maximum of 300 when hit instead of HP. During this time user is unable to cast any attacking spells.
Cast: instant
Cooldown: 2 minutes

Each level increases the maximum amount of mana which used as the shield.

e.g. 300, 350, 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 650, 700, 750.

Any damage in excess of the mana shield will subtract from the HP stat.

I'm sure the real PvP players would be able to adjust those MP values to reflect what would be reasonable but my main point here is this:

The wizard regardless of Pure or LA has HP issues. Why can we not get a rectification to this so that lower level players can also enjoy the game? Not everyone wants to play a veno and some of us like the idea of the Pure mage. Why must we wait till lvl 100 to reap the benefits of our choice?

Rule - Heavens Tear

Erm. I said that. I'd expect your experience with the cleric was situational. I don't lose aggro to clerics my level, never have really. (Defined as prolonged aggro, a crit can rip it for a period of time, first shot, etc.)

Pirodar - Sanctuary

Xhinzo - Harshlands wrote: »

The answer to all of these questions is rediculously simple:

Mana Shield. At which point will the developers give us the one skill that would allow us to become more competitive in PvP?

Yup. Clerics have it done right. Mystics are mystics (well should be). Their ability of doing damage as well as their protection should come from their mental powers not the equipment or at least not from the equipment only. Wizard's barriers are done wrong in opinion. A wizard should be protected by his skills even naked. The bonus to pdef (and to other resistances too) shouldn't be a percent of equipment value but rather a value based on mag, skill level and character level only. But even if it's so heavily based on equipment value like m attack is based on weapon value, mag should make a difference here too.

Additional mana shield wouldn't hurt.

Oh **** philosophy again.

Rule - Heavens Tear

Pirodar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yup. Clerics have it done right. Mystics are mystics (well should be). Their ability of doing damage as well as their protection should come from their mental powers not the equipment or at least not from the equipment only. Wizard's barriers are done wrong in opinion. A wizard should be protected by his skills even naked. The bonus to pdef (and to other resistances too) shouldn't be a percent of equipment value but rather a value based on mag, skill level and character level only. But even if it's so heavily based on equipment value like m attack is based on weapon value, mag should make a difference here too.

Additional mana shield wouldn't hurt.

Oh **** philosophy again.

Hard to argue with. Would be a more "pure" way to play. Game mechanics as they are though >.<' and probably won't change. $$ demands that equipment+refines+etc is the way to go.

Oz - Lost City

Its not like a LA build makes you half-invincible against mobs...
Yea, your pdef with your shield is gonna be a lot higher, but wait until lvl60 when u start fighting all magic mobs until lvl80, they are gonna **** u in light armour, no fun b:shocked

PvP is a different thing again, but i really dont know why anyone would go light for mainly PvE. It gimps your damage on mobs a lot, your hp is gonna be really low still (unless youre super rich and + all your gear) and all magic will plainly destroy you..

There is no problems with physical mobs when you can knockback and seal anyway, phy mobs are mage's best friend b:cute

And archer mobs... i never even tried killing those... either skip the quest or have a veno help you do it b:avoid

Wildstar - Harshlands

Yep, kind of a matter of preference. If your on PVE, go Pure, not much of a choice to make..... If your on PvP it becomes more preference based.

Basically, based on the stats, you can expect to lose 25-30% of your base magic stat as LA depending on your equipment. The build for LA forces you to spend 40% of your stats on str and dexterity while pure only puts 10% into str. But since your spells are actually only partially based on magic attack, the damage loss is actually far less than it looks.

Pure: Good for pking, but cannot stand and fight with any other class, fact of life... If they get the drop on you or have a charm, run away..... Great for TW, great for fast leveling and fast grinding, can heal themselves but are very expensive on mana pots(a mp charm is a must have once your over 40 and have to start grinding alot).

LA: Not as good for pking as pure but much better than pure at PvP. Can stand and fight with the best of them, because of earth barrier they can outlast any other LA class, Slower grinding as mobs will reach you more often than with a pure build and can interrupt your channeling, magic mobs will be a pain in the you-know-what, you have 30% less mp than a pure build and this will become a constant annoyance, mp charm is a must and hp charm is advised. With more phys defense than pure, you can focus on hp shards which is a pretty big advantage over pure build.

In a PvP battle LA vs Pure=Pure every time.

Kristoph - Lost City

Oz - Lost City wrote: »

Its not like a LA build makes you half-invincible against mobs...
Yea, your pdef with your shield is gonna be a lot higher, but wait until lvl60 when u start fighting all magic mobs until lvl80, they are gonna **** u in light armour, no fun b:shocked

PvP is a different thing again, but i really dont know why anyone would go light for mainly PvE. It gimps your damage on mobs a lot, your hp is gonna be really low still (unless youre super rich and + all your gear) and all magic will plainly destroy you..

There is no problems with physical mobs when you can knockback and seal anyway, phy mobs are mage's best friend b:cute

And archer mobs... i never even tried killing those... either skip the quest or have a veno help you do it b:avoid

You're forgetting two things.

- Light Armor builds only need to hit once or maybe twice more than Arcane; you're not going to get hit much if you know what you're doing. Magic mobs won't ever touch you at 67+ if you're smart enough to pull it off
- Light Armor builds can wear Arcane armor; getting some 3* gear or random **** is cheap enough

Rule - Heavens Tear

Wildstar - Harshlands wrote: »

Yep, kind of a matter of preference. If your on PVE, go Pure, not much of a choice to make..... If your on PvP it becomes more preference based.

Basically, based on the stats, you can expect to lose 25-30% of your base magic stat as LA depending on your equipment. The build for LA forces you to spend 40% of your stats on str and dexterity while pure only puts 10% into str. But since your spells are actually only partially based on magic attack, the damage loss is actually far less than it looks.

Pure: Good for pking, but cannot stand and fight with any other class, fact of life... If they get the drop on you or have a charm, run away..... Great for TW, great for fast leveling and fast grinding, can heal themselves but are very expensive on mana pots(a mp charm is a must have once your over 40 and have to start grinding alot).

LA: Not as good for pking as pure but much better than pure at PvP. Can stand and fight with the best of them, because of earth barrier they can outlast any other LA class, Slower grinding as mobs will reach you more often than with a pure build and can interrupt your channeling, magic mobs will be a pain in the you-know-what, you have 30% less mp than a pure build and this will become a constant annoyance, mp charm is a must and hp charm is advised. With more phys defense than pure, you can focus on hp shards which is a pretty big advantage over pure build.

In a PvP battle LA vs Pure=Pure every time.

Good stuff.
LA requires MP charm most of the time (apoth+pot+event+etc can overcome)
HP charm can last a long time but is also highly advisable.
Kill time in PvE isn't dramatically changed, often I kill faster than my pure counterparts in my faction. Since I crit about every other mob.
PVE isn't pure though, as you CAN go white named, probably will TW, Dragon Temple etc where you will compete against other players.

PvP battle, Pure does have an advantage with more resists and some more dmg,(assuming your in your LA gear) Undine will fix some of that, BT will fix the whole shebang if you can get it off. So not alot different than any other fight. Its still down to who has sparks and who gets thier seal off first.

LA does allow you to survive bm\barb\archer\cleric ganks better as they all use phys dmg to abuse the wizzies. Also increased spikes really can make a difference during these situations. At 7x I was able to beatup barbs of the same level in duels...which...was pretty cool. Might have been crappy barbs, but hey, I'll take it. Pk barb though, charmed and popping potions, heh nother story. Surviving a BM stun lock to distance shrink out...is priceless too.

Stacks$ - Sanctuary

either way LA or Pure Wizards still own so i say get yo TT gear go out and blow some players or mobs away with your sandstorm trust me its FUN!!!! no matter wat kinda of wizard u are we can all agree watching things go BOOM IS GREAT and that blue dragon is not half bad lookin

Hate - Lost City

TT gear sucks until 90.
:<

Raybeez - Lost City

Go pure.. because LA really doesnt have much advantge over AA anyway.. If ya go LA ull have less mp/mp regen.. less spell power and ull take longer to kill things.. so over all LA is a stupid chioce.. pll are like "ooooooooo look at me!, I has more p defencerzz naow!, so i r good wiz"! Cause i wear light armour!!! deeeeerrrrrrrr" Really LA or AA in a PvP yer going down with 1-3 shots anyway ,at least untill yer lvl 100+ with +12 everything..

Adroit - Lost City

Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good stuff.
LA requires MP charm most of the time (apoth+pot+event+etc can overcome)
HP charm can last a long time but is also highly advisable.
Kill time in PvE isn't dramatically changed, often I kill faster than my pure counterparts in my faction. Since I crit about every other mob.
PVE isn't pure though, as you CAN go white named, probably will TW, Dragon Temple etc where you will compete against other players.

PvP battle, Pure does have an advantage with more resists and some more dmg,(assuming your in your LA gear) Undine will fix some of that, BT will fix the whole shebang if you can get it off. So not alot different than any other fight. Its still down to who has sparks and who gets thier seal off first.

LA does allow you to survive bm\barb\archer\cleric ganks better as they all use phys dmg to abuse the wizzies. Also increased spikes really can make a difference during these situations. At 7x I was able to beatup barbs of the same level in duels...which...was pretty cool. Might have been crappy barbs, but hey, I'll take it. Pk barb though, charmed and popping potions, heh nother story. Surviving a BM stun lock to distance shrink out...is priceless too.

is this an orcale n00b or just a fail?

Ishmah - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

is this an orcale n00b or just a fail?

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

trolled

/10 char....

Edit:
Hmmmm this one needs including too.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I posted that to point out that it was a necro.. the GM's/Mods have made it quite clear that necro = not cool and to start a new thread.

I quoted you and said you were trolled, because you continued a conversation that ended a year ago.

Don't need stupid people on the forums anywayz. b:bye

Adroit - Lost City

fkkk what the hell is up with all these necros? I was tired when I posted that b:cryb:surrender

Bramir - Dreamweaver

I've been LA since the beginning and never really considered switching to pure. Here is why:

1. Damage difference is small as long as you have a weapon that has high damage...no keeping your tt80 until lvl95 here. I recommend trying to get a frost pataka...

2. You can actually spark against bosses without getting agro (most of the time anyway) pretty much every time you build up enough chi. This solves your reduced damage and reduced mana against bosses. Some care has to be taken to not spark right away or when the tank is lower level...

3. A crit from a wizzie is death for most people of similar level in PvP, whether its a LA wizzie or pure. LA does it a lot more often and when you hit 10 people with an AoE, there is a pretty good chance at least one of those will be a crit.

4. I can hit stuff first, particularly FB and TT mobs which squishies tend to wait for established agro before attacking and tend to have brutal physical attacks. I get hit back and usually survive regardless of the damage type because the physical mobs do no more damage than the magic mobs. This also means you can hit groups with AoE before they start running around and if the tanks miss agro on a couple mobs you won't die before they see the problem. So you get to use your AoEs (not just DB) all the time rather than in rare circumstances.

5. LA build also turns the tables on archers and BMs in TW and PvP. You will survive long enough to hit back, which is really bad news for them in most cases.

In the end though to enjoy a LA wizzie you have to use a different playing style than a pure wizzie. Think of yourself as a BM with fewer hps but much greater damage output and take it to the enemy rather than waiting in the back for it to be 'safe'.

And regarding the opinion that a lightly armored wizard is some sort of abomination, I say that opinion is an abomination. Lightly armored wizards have been around for decades (basically since the first pen and paper fantasy RPGs), and are no more an abomination than elves are.

Destini - Dreamweaver

I was LA from like level 60-90. It's a fun build, I'll admit. But I got sick of it after seeing all these pure wizzies outdamaging me. Went to vit/mag hybrid until 99, when I went pure.

I have my damage that I've always wanted, and I can still withstand some heat in TW/PVP (demon stone barrier ftw). Haven't regretted it. Just need a little more income to maintain a pure build so that you can survive more than 1-2 hits. b:cute

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Coldflash - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I went from 1-45 or so pure, then restated light and never looked back. I lost maybe 200 damage, and gained the ability to tank fb 39 at lvl 50. Its a matter of preference, but its never wrong no matter which way you go

You lost 200 damage maybe in PvP. In PvE you lost much more.