Archer v. Wizard for DDer
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TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »Main reason why wizards do more dmg in GV is because the mobs in Rebirth has a lot of phy defense.
A regular mob in Rebirth has almost double the amount of phy def compared to mag def. There are even waves where mobs have around 5k phy def and 1.5k mag def, so its not that weird if the wizards auto agros everything even if he has lower refines and lower lvl zhen than the archer.
The bosses in GV tho have slightly more mag def than phy def which is why they always agro the archer if they get inside the zhen.
It really doesn't have anything to do with interval or dmg. Just go set up zhen on real mobs outside GV and see who gets agro...its the archer.
i still like one hitting archers thoxP...when they cant one hit me thats a bad archer id say lol...so wizzys are perfect for Dmg...archers are good for crits end of the story....oh w8 imagine a pure Magic Wizzy with a 40%crit... MUAHHA!!!!xD0 -
StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »Hercs cant tank..Definitely not a herced veno.
Everytime I do a BH run with a Herc instead of an actual barb I always steal aggro.
Barbs for tanking ftw.
A herc has a hard time holding aggro, even if it's just the pet's owner attacking. Dropping pounce for another, faster skill might help, but you're better off getting a player to tank, and bringing out a dd pet instead. Plus, too many people rely on the fat yellow asian. It's time that we found a new pet to love...low level veno's have so much variety. But it's all just thrown away once you can get a herc...b:cryI shall dominate the Dreamweaver server through the use of Baked goods...and only baked goods.^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Venomancers are Female. Barbarians are male. It will forever be this way. So suck it up and deal with it already.0 -
Variety? What variety? The only real difference I see between most non-herc venos these days is whether they use a C-Mag or a V-Mag.
I use a Shaodu Cub for my main tank on my veno though.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Uh yeah, I kinda know that b:chuckle I'm talking about just one DD easily dealing 10K damage per second at 99+. Currently I deal 1600-1800 damage per attack on TT3-1 bosses with just Gorenox +5 when sparked. Deicides will be dealing 2k+ per hit when mid-refined, or even higher when upgraded to G15 with expansion. And at 99+, they can perma-spark for 5 attacks per second. So low end damage would be (5 attacks X 2K damage) 10K every second on TT bosses. With high level refine, upgrade, and extra abilities they will be doing in the 20K damage range.
It's always funny how much disbelief fist damage gets
I have no disbelief in the DPS of a fist user. I'd actually expect them to outdo any class in terms of DPS at some point. Obviously a 99+ perma sparking (or perhaps even non-sparking) highly refined fist user will steal aggro as soon as he moves, but:
1. From what i understand hercs won't tank much at those levels anyway,
2. Your example is a bit extreme. You're talking about G15 upgraded weapons with refining. We might as well be talking about +10 Rank 8 fist user with -interval gear vs. lvl 70 barb. Your average player will not have that kind of gear.
3. DPS control should be adapted to the tanker if you don't want to steal aggro (the example you gave above would easily steal aggro from anybody),
4. Even if hypothetically hercs would become completely useless after let's say level 95, i have not yet experienced losing aggro in TT and i've been running TT for a long time which would make my statement still valid for a very large portion of the game.
5. Since you mentioned 3-1 where a veno can tank everything, what if you need some mats and there's no cleric around? Will you DD your **** off and enjoy your charm ticking afterwards or will you try to make it a smooth run?
6. Once again, DPS control is for another topic. Whoever does not want to tank and immediately starts DDing on their maximum from the start is doing something wrong. If that means giving the tank a head start then so be it. The tank cannot adjust to you, you have to adjust to the tank.0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »No, what I said is the truth about Archer versus Wizard as DD's.
A wizard cant increase the number of hits he does by 30% in 100 seconds. An archer can. Couple with criticals, an archer takes overall damage to the next level.
A wizard may have spikes - and in the short run you will deal more damage. Anything longer than 3 or 4 minutes and an archer has done wayy more damage than you have.
Thats the simple fact end-game.
Only reason why mages do better at GV than archers do is because Barrage is a skill which is not subject to the interval gear modifications.
This post is a great source of wisdom about wizard class. We can learn that wizards never crit and/or use gear to stack chance of getting crit.
Also, our -channeling gear just doesn't work. Demon wizard Wellspring Quaff and Triple Spark doesn't increase channeling as well. Descriptions lie there.
Unfortunately, the poster forgot that wizards miss with their magic. A lot.
And don't forget that Archer's normal attack deals more damage than Wizard/Demon versions of Gush or Pyrogram.
[/sarcasm]
On a serious note: try playing high level wizard and then come back b:kissPacks World International0 -
Tisa - Dreamweaver wrote: »I have no disbelief in the DPS of a fist user. I'd actually expect them to outdo any class in terms of DPS at some point. Obviously a 99+ perma sparking (or perhaps even non-sparking) highly refined fist user will steal aggro as soon as he moves, but:
1. From what i understand hercs won't tank much at those levels anyway,
2. Your example is a bit extreme. You're talking about G15 upgraded weapons with refining. We might as well be talking about +10 Rank 8 fist user with -interval gear vs. lvl 70 barb. Your average player will not have that kind of gear.
3. DPS control should be adapted to the tanker if you don't want to steal aggro (the example you gave above would easily steal aggro from anybody),
4. Even if hypothetically hercs would become completely useless after let's say level 95, i have not yet experienced losing aggro in TT and i've been running TT for a long time which would make my statement still valid for a very large portion of the game.
5. Since you mentioned 3-1 where a veno can tank everything, what if you need some mats and there's no cleric around? Will you DD your **** off and enjoy your charm ticking afterwards or will you try to make it a smooth run?
6. Once again, DPS control is for another topic. Whoever does not want to tank and immediately starts DDing on their maximum from the start is doing something wrong. If that means giving the tank a head start then so be it. The tank cannot adjust to you, you have to adjust to the tank.
The 10k damage doesn't require much to do, all it takes is regular Deicides that are maybe +3 to hit that high. It's the 20k that takes alot.
And again, this was to address the popularly held belief of a herc being the best tank possible due to no damage loss on ? bosses. But if it doesn't do enough damage, then it doesn't matter if it doesn't get reduced or not. I was trying to find out if it was true or false, but from all the added comments that go off in all direction, it is in fact false?Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »I think that archers might not always the better damage dealer: [stuff]
However, I did not hold nor pull aggro on Qianji.
Was the archer sparking? It makes a huge difference. While I may occasionally take aggro just by autoattacking, sparking is basically a guaranteed aggro-steal. Oh and of course in the 70s there's a significant difference in damage between the Wind and Clouds (69 mold sling) and the TT70 bow and crossbow. With the -interval L60 bracers, it actually does as much DPS as some TT90 weapons.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Variety? What variety? The only real difference I see between most non-herc venos these days is whether they use a C-Mag or a V-Mag.
I use a Shaodu Cub for my main tank on my veno though.
Well...I was more saying for lowbies than anything else. Whenever a person gets Tame Beast, they just go nuts. You see venos with every kind of monster. The other day I saw 1 with a cactopod and another with a vipent. Unfortunately, these will probably be replaced by a giant rock or fat asian as soon as the players can use them...
Note: I know it took a long time for me to post...I work too much...there's really no other explanation than that.I shall dominate the Dreamweaver server through the use of Baked goods...and only baked goods.^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Venomancers are Female. Barbarians are male. It will forever be this way. So suck it up and deal with it already.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »And again, this was to address the popularly held belief of a herc being the best tank possible due to no damage loss on ? bosses. But if it doesn't do enough damage, then it doesn't matter if it doesn't get reduced or not. I was trying to find out if it was true or false, but from all the added comments that go off in all direction, it is in fact false?
Herc DPS helps, but it's not the main aggro holder even though pets suffer no damage penalty due to level difference. Main aggro holder is bramble on herc, especially on hard hitting bosses (2-3 Fataliqua let's say or 2-2 Cosmoforce). I've seen reflect numbers go up to like 4.5k or even more on spike hits. That + herc hitting around 1.8-1.9k regular + aggro skill (Bash usually) add up to a really good aggro holder on ? mobs.
I can't give you a completely straight answer like ''Archer with this wep and this lvl will steal aggro'' or something similar because as said, i haven't lost aggro in TT yet, but i do firmly believe it can be done at higher levels.
I can also easily grab aggro away for a few secs from a 95+ barb if i turn Bash on. It's usually a game of Bash - Aggro switch to herc, Flesh ream - aggro switch back to barb.
Looking at endgame levels i'd say best possible tank in terms of aggro holding might be a demon sparking fist user with highly refined gear closely followed by a barb and thirdly herc.
I'm not 100% sure, but this makes most sense to me.
In any case though, the gap between either of these is not that big in my opinion. You won't suffer severe aggro loss if any of these 3 is tanking a ? mob. They're all good enough. Hope i answered your question.0 -
Tisa - Dreamweaver wrote: »Herc DPS helps, but it's not the main aggro holder even though pets suffer no damage penalty due to level difference. Main aggro holder is bramble on herc, especially on hard hitting bosses (2-3 Fataliqua let's say or 2-2 Cosmoforce). I've seen reflect numbers go up to like 4.5k or even more on spike hits. That + herc hitting around 1.8-1.9k regular + aggro skill (Bash usually) add up to a really good aggro holder on ? mobs.
I can't give you a completely straight answer like ''Archer with this wep and this lvl will steal aggro'' or something similar because as said, i haven't lost aggro in TT yet, but i do firmly believe it can be done at higher levels.
I can also easily grab aggro away for a few secs from a 95+ barb if i turn Bash on. It's usually a game of Bash - Aggro switch to herc, Flesh ream - aggro switch back to barb.
Looking at endgame levels i'd say best possible tank in terms of aggro holding might be a demon sparking fist user with highly refined gear closely followed by a barb and thirdly herc.
I'm not 100% sure, but this makes most sense to me.
In any case though, the gap between either of these is not that big in my opinion. You won't suffer severe aggro loss if any of these 3 is tanking a ? mob. They're all good enough. Hope i answered your question.
Pretty much just needed the damage the herc does, for much the same reason you talked about venos joining groups: the faster the TT instance can be done, the more money can be made. And while I never said anything about never letting a herc tank if cleric isn't around, the fact remains the best way to quickly accomplish the instance would be through allowing the most damage to be dealt in the fastest amount of time. There's still plenty of other areas the pet can be useful in clearing to the boss, but having a tank that can hold aggro while letting every DD in the party go hog wild in damage does seem to be the most efficient. Also, Reflect on tank other than herc will also help; not as much as the herc buff, but with veno reflect, bramble, assassin's Blood Bath, and Psychic's Soul Vengeance skill, can easily hit some real high reflect numbers while they self-heal away.
If the herc had allowed it, then that would be great. But the bash skill will not generate enough aggro to make up the damage difference to act as tank when any type of DD goes all out. This is of course good to know, so that when fisters and archers do get closer to end game they don't fall victim to the belief that they don't have to worry about taking aggro on TT bosses. Could see a few party wipes happening because of that.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »This post is a great source of wisdom about wizard class. We can learn that wizards never crit and/or use gear to stack chance of getting crit.
Also, our -channeling gear just doesn't work. Demon wizard Wellspring Quaff and Triple Spark doesn't increase channeling as well. Descriptions lie there.
Unfortunately, the poster forgot that wizards miss with their magic. A lot.
And don't forget that Archer's normal attack deals more damage than Wizard/Demon versions of Gush or Pyrogram.
[/sarcasm]
On a serious note: try playing high level wizard and then come back b:kiss
I do have a high level wizard. In fact 21 levels higher than you if I were to judge you by your forum avatar. At the same time I have an EA 21 levels higher than you do too - both in more or less end-game equipment.
I can say by experience my EA deals much more damage over time than my wizard.
Wizards dont miss with magic, and EA's miss maybe 1 in every 100 shots thanks to the amount of dexterity they pump - not a whole lot of difference.
Wizards can achieve somewhat decent critical rates. But always keep in the back of your mind that EA's can double, or nearly double the critical rates you can.
Wizards can have -channelling gear. Even with the most -channelling gear (which I do have a fair amount of), CV rings, tome, etc - my wizard cant produce 30 extra strikes in 100 seconds, 60 extra hits in 200 seconds, 90 in 300 seconds, 120 in 400 seconds (thats about 6.5 minutes.) With my channelling gear I can only hope to get maybe 5~13 extra shots in 100 seconds. Cast time you cant reduce - I'd assume you would've figured it out by at least 79.
Archers need only -interval gear, and dont suffer from the cast-time of skills when they just fire regular arrows. They produce nearly double the critical hits.
What about sparks? Well when a wizard sparks we still use time casting and channelling. When an EA sparks? They just use regular arrows eliminating all that time.
Please go level up or stop joining relatively inexperienced squads. EA's can vastly outdamage wizards over time.
Once you get to 9x's you will soon realize that DPS isn't about the highest hits. Its about who can hit faster, who can get off more hits. A fist BM can DD on the level of archers which vasty outmatch wizards in the long run.
If you need the math as to why attack speed makes archers > Wizards in DDing, visit the archer forums. The weapon comparisons will show you that level 80's can compete with 90's at DPS when they have -interval gear.0 -
On-Topic
Being an archer myself I would choose a Veno over a Wiz b:victory (Could always do with a pet tanking than with a wiz doing it)0 -
Archer = Physical
Wizard = Elemental
Topic solved. XD
But yes, veno would be a better choice.Say my name 3 times, I dare you.
~Technotic
TrueMyths.Guildplex.com0 -
Im starting to think quite a few of you didnt even read my original post, I was asking more of who is a better dder in terms of who would you rather have in squad, from the people who actually understood that they said wiz because we almost never take agro and do lots of dmg, now can I stop seeing people say archer because -interval stuff and dps and **** its an opinion topic not a who does more dmg topic I wanted to know who you would rather have in squad b:angry0
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Archer if boss is non elemental or wood or earth
Wizard if any of the other and they use counter-element skills
All is relative on gear ofc and whether you spend your nan's birthday present money on this game or not
oh **** I just made a post in dungeons & tactics, THE HORROR b:shockedb:shockedb:shocked0 -
Archer is the generalization in my opinion but it depends on the person.
some wizards are dumb with mana so when you get to TTs, theyre useless compared to archers. Archers sharptooth arrow is very helpful but, Blind helps tank, undine helps all casters, and theyre buff helps melee a bit. So, depends on the person.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Chobsi the only thing your good at is making your character look good, otherwise your fail"
"Did that 95 BM just kill himself to your Herc? Mmm..Yep"
"Oh that thing I thought was a statue, it 1 shot me, switch to your cleric please"
"So that Hercules guy from the disney movie really aged well.."
~Chobsi b:cute0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Arguably, that makes the archers the BETTER damage dealer. Stealing aggro more means they're doing more damage, after all.
OK, not to misquote you, you did in all fairness also say that good archers know how to control their aggro. HOWEVER, this is exactly one of the reasons I would rather have a wiz DD over an archer if I had to choose. There are an awfull lot of archers that don't know how to control their aggro. At least wizards are squishy and know flat out if they draw aggro they gonna go splat. I've met several archers that get a bit overconfident because they can take a few hits, and feel they should be able to just auto attack/afk/ignore :P These same people are usually the first ones to tell everyone else their not doing their job of course
Not to say all archers suck, but my point is it's been my experience that wizzies have an easier time controlling their aggro. On another note, having a wiz for a sutra/heal spam combo in a pinch can be amazing asset.
Overall I'd prefer to have one of each, but if I had to choose I'd go with wiz everytime.0 -
*cough* I skipped pages and skimmed bits here and there and I didn't see anyone say it, so I will...
Venos are the best DDers, especially for TT. The damage of the pet does not get reduced in the instance like it does with the players. Moreover, the veno has Amplify which stacks with Heaven's Flame and Extreme Poison (and who knows what else). Pet damage + veno damge = greater than what archer or wizzy can do with a singular skill non-critical.
I like wizards. They are slow DDers though. I like archers too. They have Sharpened Tooth, very nice at bosses. So as far as TT is concerned, the veno wins and the archer comes second. Sorry wizzies. I'd bring you along if you promised to do Black Ice Dragon. b:cute I love that skill.0 -
Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »I really want to know the opinion from everyone out there, do you think a wizard or an archer is a better DDer (and please provide reasons why I dont want a flame war, like saying "archers are better because they are")
i preffer from ur list archers coz they do constant dmg without needin mana for it... but: if u add fist/claw-BM to ur list, i would preffer them... we can steal aggro, but can also hold the mob without dieng :P
but, it depends on the class u like better, and what u r calling a good DD ..
in my opinion is a good DD some1 who makes max "dps" without stealin aggro
(as long as there isnt something like *recount* added to our interface we shouldnt talk bout "dps" coz no1 knows how much we are rly doin or any min amount is needed to keep boss away from pressing the "deepbreath" button... lets just call it dmg)0 -
I agree with above having a bm for DD is very nice, they do good dmg. usually don't have problem with dmg control, and if they steal aggro they won't die. Then also if tank say dc's you do atleast have a back up tank. Having a good veno in your squad (one who debuffs the boss's and not just try to maximize there own total dmg) would be next. Then thought I'd throw in adding an extra cleric for long boss's (though can be hard to find) is better then an extra DD. Cleric can use HW, which can make total dmg to the boss higher then an extra DD, not to mention you then have backup healer/ rezzer. Then I'd chose either archer or wizzy, normally I'd go wizzy. mostly out of personal preference, both class's can DD fine and is ultimately a matter of who is playing the character. but from what I've found far fewer wizzies steal aggro and far fewer go afk on a boss. Then also as a cleric archers tend to yell more when they take aggro and get mad that I didn't heal them so they could tank. While wizzies when they die they always tend to just laugh it off. This is all just my view on it so take it as you will.0
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I have no personal preference really...but it's worth stating that I've met way more Archers with no regard for party survival than I have Wizards. Especially those that just got their Demonic Eruptions...
NOW...it can be argued that it's a failure on the tank's part if they can't hold aggro. And in a good number of cases, I won't disagree with that. But when you walk into an instance with an unfamiliar team and the first thing out of your virtual mouth is how tanks suck and how you always pull...it's a subtle imprint into everyone's mind that they should just leave you to die if the boss isn't going down anytime soon and you're not geared to take a hit or two. After all...I don't know of ANY Cleric that can out-heal a one-hit knockout. b:surrender
As such, the nod automatically goes to Wizards. At least they give me a bit of warning when they're about to pull aggro. Kinda hard to see a giant blue dragon flying into the sky and NOT think 'OSHI-'. b:laugh0 -
HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »so our big fat answer is:
DEPENDS On
Gear
Build
Target-lvl
Target-element[/SIZE]
Agree. This thread topic is so old. There is no universal blanket statement answer. The circumstances of each situation may call for one or the other.
Regards0 -
Yeah, this is a pointless question as too many factors come into play.
There's just too many variables, you can't just go by class assumptions.
I once saw a lvl60 wizard wearing full HA. You think he'd out-damage anyone else in the squad?
You could have an archer stacked with loads of -int gear, or a wiz with stacked -channel, or whatever. The list is endless. You can't generalize one class as better DD than another.
It all comes down to equips, build, play style, skills, or in other words : the person behind the character :P0 -
Silchas_ruin - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yeah, this is a pointless question as too many factors come into play.
There's just too many variables, you can't just go by class assumptions.
I once saw a lvl60 wizard wearing full HA. You think he'd out-damage anyone else in the squad?
You could have an archer stacked with loads of -int gear, or a wiz with stacked -channel, or whatever. The list is endless. You can't generalize one class as better DD than another.
It all comes down to equips, build, play style, skills, or in other words : the person behind the character :P
QTFT. In terms of physical damage DD and Damage over time, the Archers takes the cake.
But of course, with this power comes great responsibilities.....
Mages are good for their elemental edge of mobs, but due to longer channeling than it takes an arrow or bolt to fly, the damage will always be slower.
For general DD-ing, Archer would be the choice.0 -
loooooooool
i just recognized, that i never answered ur question.. just joined this "whos the better DD"~mambo jambo..
i need to say.. i like both same.. and it depends a lilbit on what we are doin... a wiz is allways nice.. i like the buff, mostly they know how to controll their char/dmg and they can back-up heal when needed...a archer does constant dmg, lowers boss HP and speeds coz high dmg hole run
for me i break it down to a simple base..
-Archer: in a PvP squad.. eva buff, nice dmg, ..so on
-Wiz: for PvE coz better controll, "nicer" dmg (not talkin bout more..), cooler lookin attks b:chuckle and, no offend all archers out there, wiz are mostly nicer b:surrender ..archers are much times like "im soooooo uber" *pew-pew*-laser gun-agro-dead =suxxxxxxx0 -
Don't necro. It's been nearly six weeks since the last post in the thread.0
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I love "rainbow" squad.
Archer can debuff some mag def and hp, wiz other mag def (if sage).
Anyway, in the endgame a wiz can get about 13% crit or more and a lot of mag atk.
(And a lot of -chan, too)
Archer's dmg are better cuz can be phys or mag, while wiz's dmg only mag.
Well, in rebirths archer can take the aggro, when wiz get it bm must save him.
While in TT/HH veno is the better DD cuz pet. Herc isnt the best dps pet, but can resist better than others. And pet has also double aggro. So..only a barb or alpha male can steal it off herc.
All depends by how each one wanna play.0 -
Ok... everyone have their DD ways
Physics have black voodoo, but they get to be the squishiest ever, possibly can get 1 shotted by a normal mob, can happen b:shocked
Barbs have the most damage access, but problem is they have to sacrifice HP
Wizards have huge damage, but they cast slow
Archers have high damage with crits, but they are rag dolls up close
Clerics have high damage and have BOTH debuffs, they lower their own defenses
BMs have different ways to damage but not as better than others, they are versatile
Sins have epically high crit, but they are a squishy melee class
Venoes possibly (not sure lol) have the worst DPS out of all the classes but they have pets, and best of all overpowered ones such as nix or herc, but I don't think nix or herc is OP enough. lol
Any class have a way to DD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok... everyone have their DD ways
Physics have black voodoo, but they get to be the squishiest ever, possibly can get 1 shotted by a normal mob, can happen b:shocked
Barbs have the most damage access, but problem is they have to sacrifice HP
Wizards have huge damage, but they cast slow
Archers have high damage with crits, but they are rag dolls up close
Clerics have high damage and have BOTH debuffs, they lower their own defenses
BMs have different ways to damage but not as better than others, they are versatile
Sins have epically high crit, but they are a squishy melee class
Venoes possibly (not sure lol) have the worst DPS out of all the classes but they have pets, and best of all overpowered ones such as nix or herc, but I don't think nix or herc is OP enough. lol
Any class have a way to DD
a wiz on my lv dealing more dmg without weapon than me with weapon and i am magic build...b:cry
veno are best dmg dealer because they won't get aggro as much as others...and ofc their overall dmg/aggro is splitted with the pet...b:chucklei am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »Im starting to think quite a few of you didnt even read my original post, I was asking more of who is a better dder in terms of who would you rather have in squad, from the people who actually understood that they said wiz because we almost never take agro and do lots of dmg, now can I stop seeing people say archer because -interval stuff and dps and **** its an opinion topic not a who does more dmg topic I wanted to know who you would rather have in squad b:angry
In that case I'd rather have the DD that does their initial job the best, that being dealing damage. Maxed out STA speeds things up, and that's the main role of DDs, they make things die fast. Cleric can heal, barb can retain aggro; doesn't always work this way but in an idealistic world where everybody sticks to their primary role I'd choose the archer every time. There's also the few wizards that sit down in the middle of the fight to regen mp over using mp potions, how much damage do you think an archer deals auto-shotting alone in this time period?
If you need a wizard for secondary heals and don't want an archer because they hit/crit too much, let the archer tank or find a better squad >.>
Maybe I'm biased? b:surrender0
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