Are Bms underappreciated?

Hi,

First of all when I started this game I choose BM, becouse I read the .my page (unfortunately) and i read there that BMs are tanks... When I made my charater I never thought that this will be my biggest mistake in this game. I enjoyed being a BM, and I enjoyed the game too till lvl 60. That was the first point where cold water came (getting lvl 60 TT weapon)... I knew it at this time only what is the share order, and that BMs are not welcomed in instances.

It doesn't matter if I tank the half of TTrun, the Barb will choose second, and I will mark as DD and I will have really high repair bill with no, or with less drops. I am lucky when I get one mat what I need with 40-50k+ repair bill. And thats not enough that barbs and clerics get more expensive stuffs, they want everything, like mirages and etc. I did a lot of run where I didn't get any mat and they prick out my eyes with 3 mirage... And I didn't get more, becouse Iam only a BM.

I was in 2-2 and at the end I was happy, becouse I saw we have a lvl 70 cleric and I thought he will want lvl 80 mat. Of course he wanted a dust...
That was the last drop in the glass, I was really angry, becouse when I was lvl 70 ppl said that Iam low to do 1-2 (I never dreamed around lvl 70 to go to 2-2) I couldn't get into any party and now I see a cleric who is lvl 70 and he started to collect mats for his lvl 90 stuffs.

In TT... Some barbs can't catch the mob --> veno die, and I see that ppl ask me why I didn't catch the mob... Why I should do that? And becouse of the share order I will never catch any mob, I try to avoid all damage, becouse I will get like nothing from drops, and I sacrifice my time too, so I want low repair bill.

I can tank a lot of boss, but this doesn't count, becouse I can't go to TT,BH... as a tank, becouse ppl don't believe I can do it, so they don't invite me. Pole do max 1,1k damage to me( and i have really bad stuffs ) if the cleric do his job well(with only 1 cleric).

After one hour I hit 85 I got a lot of invitations to FF. Whao ppl who never say hi for a year just found me, and they speak with me as their best friend. But I didn't got any invite to other places like TT.

Since ppl on my friend list know that I have axes too they want me to help in their quests, but nothing else changed.

I can write books about this topic, this shouldn't be a question, this should be a known problem.

If you don't agree with me there are 3 way:
1. You charged up money - I don't want to charge up money, I want to get my stuffs by myself. For other reason I will charge up money too, but not to buy armors, and weapons.

2. You have RL friends and they help you to get stuffs. - My friends playing with another game.

3. You have good guild and they help you to get stuffs. -I never saw any good guild on HT server. ( Maybe TW guilds are good, I don't know, I can't go to TW, becouse I sleep when TW goes. )

In any other way this game just a suffering with BM not more. Maybe I don't have the best build, maybe I didn't choose the best weapon(sword), but I can tank bosses, and I win almost always in duels, so thats why I think I don't have a bad build[ Str: for axe Vit: lvl-10(without stuffs) Dex: every other point ]. Now only BMs and Barbs can defeat me who have better stuffs, and of course high lvl characters.

And not only BMs are underappreciated, I think all DD class feel the same. Just see high lvl characters, you wont see a lot of archer,BM or wiz. And if you find one, then compare his stuffs with a same lvl Barb or Cleric...
If I see my friend list I see that only Barbs,Clerics and Venos are on, other classes disappeared... That should mean something. And they didn't delete me, just some of them went to another game, some of them made a Barb or a Cleric.

I thought a lot of how to solve this problem. None of you will agree with me, but I don't have any other idea.

If bosses would have double hp, it may increase the value of DDs. Or if we pay monthly price for the game then DDs will think twice that will they go to instances or no. Okay these are not really can solve this problem, and maybe do much damage to the game.

Well, I think it's up to GMs to find out something, becouse the game is not balanced, but I think they will do nothing. I tried to contact with them, but they just said that BM is a usefull class, and go to forums and write ur problem there.

Iam curious what you guys will say, but I think you can't help. Ohh and please if you can just write bad things, then keep it to yourself.

AirunElMarem - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hi,

First of all when I started this game I choose BM, becouse I read the .my page (unfortunately) and i read there that BMs are tanks... When I made my charater I never thought that this will be my biggest mistake in this game. I enjoyed being a BM, and I enjoyed the game too till lvl 60. That was the first point where cold water came (getting lvl 60 TT weapon)... I knew it at this time only what is the share order, and that BMs are not welcomed in instances.

It doesn't matter if I tank the half of TTrun, the Barb will choose second, and I will mark as DD and I will have really high repair bill with no, or with less drops. I am lucky when I get one mat what I need with 40-50k+ repair bill. And thats not enough that barbs and clerics get more expensive stuffs, they want everything, like mirages and etc. I did a lot of run where I didn't get any mat and they prick out my eyes with 3 mirage... And I didn't get more, becouse Iam only a BM.

I was in 2-2 and at the end I was happy, becouse I saw we have a lvl 70 cleric and I thought he will want lvl 80 mat. Of course he wanted a dust...
That was the last drop in the glass, I was really angry, becouse when I was lvl 70 ppl said that Iam low to do 1-2 (I never dreamed around lvl 70 to go to 2-2) I couldn't get into any party and now I see a cleric who is lvl 70 and he started to collect mats for his lvl 90 stuffs.

In TT... Some barbs can't catch the mob --> veno die, and I see that ppl ask me why I didn't catch the mob... Why I should do that? And becouse of the share order I will never catch any mob, I try to avoid all damage, becouse I will get like nothing from drops, and I sacrifice my time too, so I want low repair bill.

I can tank a lot of boss, but this doesn't count, becouse I can't go to TT,BH... as a tank, becouse ppl don't believe I can do it, so they don't invite me. Pole do max 1,1k damage to me( and i have really bad stuffs ) if the cleric do his job well(with only 1 cleric).

After one hour I hit 85 I got a lot of invitations to FF. Whao ppl who never say hi for a year just found me, and they speak with me as their best friend. But I didn't got any invite to other places like TT.

Since ppl on my friend list know that I have axes too they want me to help in their quests, but nothing else changed.

I can write books about this topic, this shouldn't be a question, this should be a known problem.

If you don't agree with me there are 3 way:
1. You charged up money - I don't want to charge up money, I want to get my stuffs by myself. For other reason I will charge up money too, but not to buy armors, and weapons.

2. You have RL friends and they help you to get stuffs. - My friends playing with another game.

3. You have good guild and they help you to get stuffs. -I never saw any good guild on HT server. ( Maybe TW guilds are good, I don't know, I can't go to TW, becouse I sleep when TW goes. )

In any other way this game just a suffering with BM not more. Maybe I don't have the best build, maybe I didn't choose the best weapon(sword), but I can tank bosses, and I win almost always in duels, so thats why I think I don't have a bad build[ Str: for axe Vit: lvl-10(without stuffs) Dex: every other point ]. Now only BMs and Barbs can defeat me who have better stuffs, and of course high lvl characters.

And not only BMs are underappreciated, I think all DD class feel the same. Just see high lvl characters, you wont see a lot of archer,BM or wiz. And if you find one, then compare his stuffs with a same lvl Barb or Cleric...
If I see my friend list I see that only Barbs,Clerics and Venos are on, other classes disappeared... That should mean something. And they didn't delete me, just some of them went to another game, some of them made a Barb or a Cleric.

I thought a lot of how to solve this problem. None of you will agree with me, but I don't have any other idea.

If bosses would have double hp, it may increase the value of DDs. Or if we pay monthly price for the game then DDs will think twice that will they go to instances or no. Okay these are not really can solve this problem, and maybe do much damage to the game.

Well, I think it's up to GMs to find out something, becouse the game is not balanced, but I think they will do nothing. I tried to contact with them, but they just said that BM is a usefull class, and go to forums and write ur problem there.

Iam curious what you guys will say, but I think you can't help. Ohh and please if you can just write bad things, then keep it to yourself.

+1! I feel exactly like you do. The only place people say they need us is in FF or GV. and tbh that's even going away, people know just want an archer in place of a BM. hard to get in GV delta unless you have realy op gear, and if you have really OP gear then ofc your needed everywhere anyway. I take pride in my skills and the way i use my class, i believe it seperates me from the rest of the people who decided to roll blademaster. However even w/ my use of skills i still feel like i'm un needed for the majority of things. the new expansion was supposed to bring out new usefulness for under appreciated classes but it hasnt yet. Seems like whenver stuff goes wrong they blame us when in reality not even our fault half the time. Some cleric in FC i did a run w/ got pisssed because i used some cheap axes to dragon w/. I'm a sword BM why in the world would i spend alot of money on axes that i'll hardly ever use except for a couple of skills in one instance. The only advantage i see as a BM is aoe grind however whats the point of lvling if there's no space for you in dungeon's b:surrender.

Ok, I didnt take the time to read all 10 previous pages of posts, but what I read on the first page pissed me off enough post here, which I rarely do.

First of all, in answer to the question that started this thread... You are very correct, BM's are VERY unappreciated, but no more the an archer or wizzie in my opinion. The problem is, ignorant people think that the only important party members are the barb and cleric, the rest are just fluff.... HOW RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!! Why is a barb (for example) more important then my BM when im doing my BH's? IT ISN'T!!!! My bh's go just as well with or without a barb, If it's a phys Mob, I'll tank it, if it's a Mag mob, one of the softies can tank it. As long as the party has a brain and understands aggro, a barb is replacable. While im on that note, as far as I'm concerned, in many instances, my charm, pots, genie heals, sutra, etc... can stand in just fine for a cleric, and are more reliable then some of the clerics I've met.

Now I know I've hurt some barb and cleric feelings, so sorry, im sure there are plenty mindless masses in PW that will soothe your egos. My point is that there is no class that is more important then the next. An all barb/cleric gamma squad would be pretty fail... All the ppl spamming wc lookin for a experienced BM for Gamma constantly, seems to tell me that they're pretty important.

Am I saying that a BM can tank as well as a barb or that I can self-heal as well as a cleric can heal me? Of course not. As a BM, I'll never be as good a tank as a Barb, but if I know how to play, build, skill, and equip my charcter, I can do it.

.......................

Whew... now I feel better...

Simple Answer --> Tanking and healing are easy on a barb and cleric respectively, because that is the primary thing that they do and most of their skills are designed to make it easy. A BM is a much more broad class that can be good at a lot of things. In my opinion, the "DD" classes are the more "skilled" classes, and you are going to have to really learn and master your class if you are looking for any cudo's from your party members.

AirunElMarem - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It doesn't matter if I tank the half of TTrun, the Barb will choose second, and I will mark as DD and I will have really high repair bill with no, or with less drops. I am lucky when I get one mat what I need with 40-50k+ repair bill. And thats not enough that barbs and clerics get more expensive stuffs, they want everything, like mirages and etc. I did a lot of run where I didn't get any mat and they prick out my eyes with 3 mirage... And I didn't get more, becouse Iam only a BM.

I was in 2-2 and at the end I was happy, becouse I saw we have a lvl 70 cleric and I thought he will want lvl 80 mat. Of course he wanted a dust...
That was the last drop in the glass, I was really angry, becouse when I was lvl 70 ppl said that Iam low to do 1-2 (I never dreamed around lvl 70 to go to 2-2) I couldn't get into any party and now I see a cleric who is lvl 70 and he started to collect mats for his lvl 90 stuffs.

In TT... Some barbs can't catch the mob --> veno die, and I see that ppl ask me why I didn't catch the mob... Why I should do that? And becouse of the share order I will never catch any mob, I try to avoid all damage, becouse I will get like nothing from drops, and I sacrifice my time too, so I want low repair bill.

This is a very valid concern. TT runs are hugely in favor of classes with clear distinct roles, which of course works against BMs although we are the ones that usually have to wipe butts when others **** up. We are like janitors in a way; nobody cares about them, people look down on them, yet they depend on them to build an environment that they can work in.

I can only advise you to join a faction that does TT runs and distributes loots in needs rather than wants manner. The faction I'm in doesn't prioritize players according to their class but based on what equipments they need. You can't do TT runs for coins but at least poor don't get poorer. When I do TT runs with friends I usually get more than I want--choosing who to befriend works wonders.

I never look for TT squads in WC and I never will. They are usually ineffective, ****, and the banker isn't always trustworthy.

ShadowDrag - Lost City wrote: »

Mages are the best. Period.

If you dont have a dd, it wont matter how many bms u have, u'll still suck b:laugh

Best squads ever are 4+ BM squads. I've done 5 bm + 1 veno stygean bh's and fb69 20x3's without death and plenty of 4-5bm + 1 cleric squads in a wide range of instances. Nothing really compares to a squad of high survivability DD's throwing out a constant stream of aoe's and mass stuns.

Taeknight - Lost City wrote: »

3rd, i am a lvl 89 bm and i can tank EVERYTHING that lvl 89 barb can, dun belive me? PM me ingame TaeKnight << Lost City

I take you up on that challenge.

Screen shot of you tanking Wurlord 2-3 and Ape 2-3. You as tank....one cleric. Boss defeated.


And no I've never felt unappreciated. Sometimes to many appreciations.....

Astoru - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Try out-dding a BM hitting 5 times a second.

Summary: You can't b:surrender

This. b:chuckle

Ohai SD

Honestly, I agree with people that say you're not really thanked unless you perform above your expected role. People don't give special consideration for barbs or clerics when they do most of the work. It IS when they do something special that they get special praise.

That being said...

No one wants to run Frostcovered City without at least 1 BM. No one wants to do rebirth orders without a BM. Some clerics and barbarians prefer at least one BM to DD do to useful damage that is nonetheless unlikely to pull aggro, along with debuffs from glacial spike/heaven's flame. No one can AoE like a BM. No one can stun/disable like a BM (except maybe assassins).

And a list like this can be compiled for all the classes.

So yah, don't get fur/nix/heal/gill/crit envy. It's a game. If you're not enjoying yourself and instead you see PWI as a job, you're doing something wrong. lol

Regarding how you get your mats from TT:

1) Sub like you mentioned
2) Do TT runs with your faction
3) Be the main tank

First two are easy, the third one can be a problem tho. But those are really effective ways to get mats.

AirunElMarem - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is true,but please tell me how you will have ur stuffs from TT. You can have TT mats from FF? Or from RB? Or you go to farm for months for those mats what other classes get without subbing a single TT run? I think almost everybody get most of his stuff from TT, and in TT you will be a subber, or you will be happy if you find a lower DD in your party.

And that make me sad and becouse of farming I think PWI is a job, I can't enjoy the game, becouse for 1 mat what I need I must pay 3 sub, and I must find a squad(this is really hard now, and a lot of squads whipe in 2-3).
Iam sword/axe BM now, and I plan to have other weapons too, my stats: str: for axe, vit: lvl-10, dex: every other point.
You seem so clever, so please tell me what is what Iam doing wrong?

And see if you make a single mistake, then ppl will point their fingers on you, maybe they will threat you with a kick if you do something wrong again, but if a barb do a mistake, then they say sorry a lot of time, then they jumping around him, and they say there is no problem, becouse we are ppl we can do mistakes. Cleric is the same...
Well these are my experiences, I saw this happened a lot of time.
I was in a lot of run where party leader kicked out a DD who made a mistake, in two minutes he found another. Why this can be happened? I tell you becouse DDs are underappriciated, and they are forced to do TT runs for like nothing, if they want something from TT.

single sword axe bm?

ya i'd let you in any tt a ran lol decent DPS from monoblade+ HF and myriad for tough bosses is win

problem is when people see bm the see a gimped barb with aoe's (bad axe drones bad *smacks with ruler*) so find a group of freinds and run with them and not the general populatin of pwi

find people you know are good and can get along with barbs/clerics/other DD and go have fun

personaly i think the subber>barb>cleric>DD by level order is good in a sense as long as its based on total mat value being = for all with the higher ones just getting pereferanc on WHAT their mat is not # of and total value

and yes its **** annoying with a WC barb since they tend to "pace" FR leading to many deaths for my squishy self in tt due to aggro >.<

Delmarte - Lost City wrote: »

Find a fun, friendly faction that doesn't mind if you **** up too much. A pro squad can usually compensate for a person's inexperience and as long as you become more skilled, they'll appreciate you.

At lv 79 Proud Plate of Corsair is a common substitute for HH80 plate.

And honestly, if PWI does nothing but depress you, then just blow the rest of your money on fashion and reroll a new character or (omgb:shocked) PLAY ANOTHER GAME! b:laugh

Hm... I think you missunderstand me, I usually don't do any mistakes, I just compared what happen if a DD or a Barb do a mistake.
Every TT stuff can be replace with molds or 3*, but why are you playing if you must suffer months in TT for some stuff or if you can't have those stuffs what you are planned to have?

I have a Barb and Veno too, I don't know why but playing with those are not the same like playing with my BM.
I wrote down that I don't have a faction which does TT runs, and on HT server I don't know any. I also wrote down other things, I don't wanna repeat myself, just read back if you wanna see it.

Purrfect_Pet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i agree. the problem seems to be the attitude of the squad you're with or your attitiude. best thing to do is to squad with people who appreciate the fact that everybody plays an important role in the squad and that the squad as a whole suffers when everybody doesn't do their job or change your attitude. if you can't do that maybe you need to start over as one of the "important" characters

Sure. The problem is that often you are not needed in the BH squads. And because BH squads are pretty common, it's hard to be wanted. So, if you are praised for your work in a BH squad, you are a very good player.

GO BMS b:victory WOOHHOOOO

get yourself known as a good bm and your have no problems getting into squads.

Job of the bm is practacally be the guardian angel of the group, if something gose wrong the bm should try and sort it out straight away. highish hp, self heal, aoe stun, loads of phys def, plenty of mag def and fast as hell runners to get to places. dont believe what everyone tells you and says your not a tank, sometimes you are.

if tank dies, grab the boss and go for a run and keep yourself alive wile cleric res`s the tank and heal\rebuff.

if cleric gets aggroed, grab the mob as quickly as you can (is why we have speed skills and the famous aoe stun)

just doing these 2 things will get you known as a good bm and people "will" want to take you in TTs\BHs\FBs\FFs\RBs

but overall doing this will make the bm class be more appreciated.
but to answer the tital of the thread, yes sometimes we are underappreciated but not all the time.

we, unlike "some" classes just have to earn the right to be appreciated

Go BMs Go!

xD