Are Bms underappreciated?

245

Comments

  • EthikaII - Heavens Tear
    EthikaII - Heavens Tear Posts: 664 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well i play another BM character and i noticed that while I was in frost there is a room in which u can get a lot of exp, well while doing that room if the cleric dies because she/he gets aggro everyone blames the BM for not stunning or using alpha male to get the aggro. But if everyone survive they thank the barb for doing a good job. It has happened to me a lot in TTs too. If someone gets accidental aggro and are dies they blame the BM for not getting the aggro from the squishies and if BMs do get the aggro and die in the process no one says anything. And even if the BM dies 20 times during the run they still thank the barb for doing a good job. WTF!!!!

    obviously he did better then the BM sense the cleric didn't die o.o". also ppl need to know BM's don't have agroing skills, so if the cleric went hammering away it if her fualt, sense it sounds as if she's only cleric she shouldn't have been attacking at all, only healing. even if she did, i don't think a shot in between heals is enough to rly take agro.
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  • Mkjngb - Sanctuary
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    EthikaII - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    obviously he did better then the BM sense the cleric didn't die o.o" and unless your tanking your job should have been on adds along with DD.

    I personally pull mobs from the alley when the barb pulls the others in fcc. so when i come back with mobs u want me to bring all mobs to close range to aoe and keep their aggro while cleric just bbing there? SRY, my bad i am just too pissed off. You want me to do all that with perfection and I can't get a ty when I save your squishy **** when everything goes wrong?
  • Kephras - Heavens Tear
    Kephras - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I personally pull mobs from the alley when the barb pulls the others in fcc. so when i come back with mobs u want me to bring all mobs to close range to aoe and keep their aggro while cleric just bbing there?

    If you're biting off more than the party can chew, then yes. Or better, go support the barb with THAT pull. If you're both pulling at once, no wonder you're getting [censored] at.
    b:bye
  • Mkjngb - Sanctuary
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you're biting off more than the party can chew, then yes. Or better, go support the barb with THAT pull. If you're both pulling at once, no wonder you're getting [censored] at.
    b:bye

    Aren't barbs supposed to tank? Aren't barb supposed to grab aggro when the mobs come? Above said messages say that BMs are not tanks then why do u want us to get aggro of the mobs?
  • didi
    didi Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well i play another BM character and i noticed that while I was in frost there is a room in which u can get a lot of exp, well while doing that room if the cleric dies because she/he gets aggro everyone blames the BM for not stunning or using alpha male to get the aggro. But if everyone survive they thank the barb for doing a good job. It has happened to me a lot in TTs too. If someone gets accidental aggro and are dies they blame the BM for not getting the aggro from the squishies and if BMs do get the aggro and die in the process no one says anything. And even if the BM dies 20 times during the run they still thank the barb for doing a good job. WTF!!!!

    Bms is or should be known for their fast rate of kills with their aoe and stun ability. Besides tideborn class which i'm not familiar with yet, no other class can be as consistant as a bm at rounding up, and killing the number of mobs they round up.

    In another word, Bm are good at making certain runs alot faster if that run require the killing of alot of mobs. That includes runs like frost, fb51, fb69-20x3, fb79, etc.

    With an inexperience bm, he will kill himself and/or the cleric if the cleric choose to try and save the bm. With an inexperience cleric, the cleric will kill themself. Its necessary for both bm and cleric to know how to work together as both are necessary for things to work out right.

    It should be pointed out thought that when this game was design, they made it so that every class was important (the first 6 class). With experience, its likely that people will see their importance. If for example, u don't have an archer, in squade, then you will miss a great deal of damage done to the mobs the bm rounded up or how fast a mob died, when the cleric was further up healing someone further up for example.
  • XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Aren't barbs supposed to tank? Aren't barb supposed to grab aggro when the mobs come? Above said messages say that BMs are not tanks then why do u want us to get aggro of the mobs?

    Here's how I ran in FC.

    - Cleric BBs
    - Wizzie/archer AOEs
    - Barbs pull, and sometimes BMs will do so as well
    - Venos throw sparks.
    - BMs take aggro, rush bishop groups, and DD. Oh, and we stun too. >_>;;

    - Barb comes back with mobs, run in the DDers (past with magic mobs)...
    >>- Mobs go for cleric.
    - DDs pull aggro off cleric.
    - BMs pull aggro off DDs.<< VERY short time between all of these.
    - Dead mobs, move to next area. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    BMs CAN pull, but AFAIK, less than a barb due to less HP... except for the phys. mobs. in some areas. I pulled along barbs or BMs, but we'd share pulls - and that went smooth. But my general understanding is that we're mostly there to keep aggro off the squishier DDers (Alpha Male recommended) and DD at the same time. If you fail to grab aggro, then yeah, it can lead to party wipes, unless your barb pulls aggro back to him. Just that some squads will assume that the barb has pulled aggro while the BM has, and get credit for it. I've been in similar situations; it can get annoying when everyone's praising the barb over and over again for the job you've been doing. And that doesn't just go for BMs.
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  • Mkjngb - Sanctuary
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Here's how I ran in FC.

    - Cleric BBs
    - Wizzie/archer AOEs
    - Barbs pull, and sometimes BMs will do so as well
    - Venos throw sparks.
    - BMs take aggro, rush bishop groups, and DD. Oh, and we stun too. >_>;;

    - Barb comes back with mobs, run in the DDers (past with magic mobs)...
    >>- Mobs go for cleric.
    - DDs pull aggro off cleric.
    - BMs pull aggro off DDs.<< VERY short time between all of these.
    - Dead mobs, move to next area. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    BMs CAN pull, but AFAIK, less than a barb due to less HP... except for the phys. mobs. in some areas. I pulled along barbs or BMs, but we'd share pulls - and that went smooth. But my general understanding is that we're mostly there to keep aggro off the squishier DDers (Alpha Male recommended) and DD at the same time. If you fail to grab aggro, then yeah, it can lead to party wipes, unless your barb pulls aggro back to him. Just that some squads will assume that the barb has pulled aggro while the BM has, and get credit for it. I've been in similar situations; it can get annoying when everyone's praising the barb over and over again for the job you've been doing. And that doesn't just go for BMs.

    True and ty
  • Medeina - Heavens Tear
    Medeina - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    don't forget BM - is the key to success in RB.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So unless a BMs job is to sacrifice himself for the squad your saying when he does so needs to get thanked right? Thats all I ask.

    ....................................
    -.-'

    um...yesh......when you signed up to be a DD it be part of teh job description that you has to be willing sacrifice yourself in order to keep either/both cleric and or barb alive.....(and mayhaps the occasional thanks be nice but it isn't needed since...you has 4...now 6 other classes which also need to do this if they know their class properly....*archer, wizard, bm, veno, assassin, and psychic.*)
    remember.....dead DD = squad can go on.
    Dead cleric/barb = squad probably going to die......but BMs can tank so BMs be like the emergency tank.

    <---died alot saving clerics.
    :<

    also.....me wuv HF
    b:dirty
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  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well lets see if bms don't get the aggro clerics are dead (in frost) and a dead cleric is useless so i would i say BMs are important.

    barbs ftw

    u dont need bms to complete anything...(exept rb)

    bms arent good agro holders...
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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  • XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    barbs ftw

    u dont need bms to complete anything...(exept rb)

    bms arent good agro holders...

    Good barb > BM > fail barb.

    Considering I've met a ton of fail barbs on my server, I can say I hold aggro fairly well for my class. We may not be needed, but we're nice to have and can definitely turn the outcome of a squad in our favor.
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  • Kaneharo - Dreamweaver
    Kaneharo - Dreamweaver Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    barbs ftw

    u dont need bms to complete anything...(exept rb)

    bms arent good agro holders...

    Methinks you haven't seen a good bm at work for you to say such. I've squadded with quite a few good bms, Xan included, that have actually tanked better than a lot of the barbs i've seen. The problem isn't that bms can't hold aggro, it's more of the thing that there are just as many, if not significantly enough BMs that can do their jobs right that people get your view of opinion. This itself doesn't just apply to BMs, but the rest of DDs as well.
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    agreed....
    it be the job of the DD first make things die faster.
    second, to above all, not steal the dam aggro if you know it going to keel you all....
    -.-'

    secondary jobs =
    1. willing to get killed to save the cleric/tank.
    2. tank when needed. (even a single hit or 2 could be enough to save the squad. and zmog...BMs do this quite nicely.)
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  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    always when i worked with bms they ran in front of the whole group (ewen tho i told them not to) so they always die and yell at me ._.'' ...

    same goes for most archers...

    they always lose the agro when they have to ahve it and the stun fails at the worst time xD...

    b:coldjust my luck with bms and archers i guess...

    EDIT: i had a bm use the sutra that decreases mag def when tanking pyro.......

    ................................<.<.....>.>.....>__>...
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    always when i worked with bms they ran in front of the whole group (ewen tho i told them not to) so they always die and yell at me ._.'' ...

    same goes for most archers...

    they always lose the agro when they have to ahve it and the stun fails at the worst time xD...

    b:coldjust my luck with bms and archers i guess...

    me suggest you....forget them lol
    they going to either learn or ragequit soon enough.
    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • Astoru - Heavens Tear
    Astoru - Heavens Tear Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    BM's are the jack of all trades class. They can do everything, which in turn makes them not the best at anything (Except stunning and HF, but that's mostly a TW thing).

    It's only end-game that those BM's that have the time and money to invest into a fist build show their true potential: Ultra high DPS.
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  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    me suggest you....forget them lol
    they going to either learn or ragequit soon enough.
    b:surrender

    b:shocked...they were 7x or 8x... how can u learn that much at that lvl?b:shocked
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    b:shocked...they were 7x or 8x... how can u learn that much at that lvl?b:shocked

    me think you would be surprised how little people know....
    even after playing the game for months and months.
    b:surrender

    and now with the even easier and faster way of leveling....ya...
    ._.'

    (And people can always learn a little bit more about aggro and such.)
    <----me has hamtastic aggro control from tons of practice in RB lol.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    always when i worked with bms they ran in front of the whole group (ewen tho i told them not to) so they always die and yell at me ._.'' ...

    same goes for most archers...

    they always lose the agro when they have to ahve it and the stun fails at the worst time xD...

    b:coldjust my luck with bms and archers i guess...

    Yeah, bad examples of their classes really. I do have a lot of problems when I team up with outside BMs and archers, but then again, I have a problem with nearly every class outside my faction. Kaneharo can back me up on that one, we have horrible luck with PUGs.

    I rush head-on as a BM, but I'm smart enough to stop when I need, to heal myself, to use Alpha Male / TOP when needed, to stun, to hit every mob before cleric heals me, to run after strays when I miss upon aggro and cleric has already started healing, and so on. While I know I'm the only smart one on the server (I do team with BMs who know their class!), a bunch don't know their class. And once again, this doesn't just go for BMs. I have archers who will do the impossible to take aggro off me, wizards who won't wait till I have aggro to hit stuff, lv40 barbs thinking they can hold aggro against me and request that I stop tanking, and so on.
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  • didi
    didi Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    always when i worked with bms they ran in front of the whole group (ewen tho i told them not to) so they always die and yell at me ._.'' ...

    same goes for most archers...

    they always lose the agro when they have to ahve it and the stun fails at the worst time xD...

    b:coldjust my luck with bms and archers i guess...

    EDIT: i had a bm use the sutra that decreases mag def when tanking pyro.......

    ................................<.<.....>.>.....>__>...

    Assuming that one class has to run infront of the other, who should be in front for a fast run? should it be barb, bm cleric? or would a combination of them work better?

    lets go back to your experience. when should a bm not be infront of the whole squade?
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    always when i worked with bms they ran in front of the whole group (ewen tho i told them not to) so they always die and yell at me ._.'' ...

    same goes for most archers...

    they always lose the agro when they have to ahve it and the stun fails at the worst time xD...

    b:coldjust my luck with bms and archers i guess...

    EDIT: i had a bm use the sutra that decreases mag def when tanking pyro.......

    ................................<.<.....>.>.....>__>...

    It's not your luck. It's called Sanctuary. We have the worst BMs I have seen or heard. I know lots of skilled players, but I also know those rushers. I could name at least one, but naming & shaming is not allowed. And I can remember at least two more who do that too.
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  • eatwithspoons
    eatwithspoons Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Due to the influx of misplaced threads, all threads will be moved to their correct section or locked. We appreciate your understanding b:victory


    A lot of these "under appreciated" threads are popping up. So much so that we will now be moving class specific threads into their corresponding sections.
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  • Mrvate - Heavens Tear
    Mrvate - Heavens Tear Posts: 406 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    BM's are under appreciated because in the early lvls 9/10 of them are horrible. They think they are gods and better then tank, and they need to learn they can be killed. later on once the stupid ones have been weeded out, they are a fantastic class if they know what they are doing. and just so all you bm's know, I do love you. you save my but alot.
  • XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's not your luck. It's called Sanctuary. We have the worst BMs I have seen or heard. I know lots of skilled players, but I also know those rushers. I could name at least one, but naming & shaming is not allowed. And I can remember at least two more who do that too.

    It's not really the server. DW has the same problem. Just with every class.

    I hate putting it this way, but the BM is one of these classes that appeal to the lowest common denominator. We're...

    - Humans (easy to make it look like yourself)
    - Have big glowy weapons (lots of damage)
    - Have heavy armor (invincible)

    There's a lot of us, and it does take a good BM to stand out in a team. Or to quietly stay up front and DD, depending what we're talking about. Because most will rush head on thinking they're invincible because they wield glowy weapons and use HA. These people must understand that just like any other class, we have our limits. In other words: they fail at the class.
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  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's not your luck. It's called Sanctuary. We have the worst BMs I have seen or heard.

    b:cryb:cryb:cry


    EDIT: meh i could care less as long as i get the buff -_-
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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  • Motoko - Raging Tide
    Motoko - Raging Tide Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    You must be a fail BM, all I've ever heard is how useless clerics, wiz, and archers are in Gamma, and how they could be replaced by a few new auras in Gamma, channel and afk ftw. BMs are the best class to bring anywhere assuming the BM actually uses most of his skills. Though most people are massive failures who use 1 weapon type and like 2 skills their entire time playing. If you want to be a good BM swap weapons 100x per FB and 1000x per RB.
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  • maocchi
    maocchi Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    All it takes to be appreciated is to play good. It has nothing to do with classes.

    And yes, as a BM I run in front of everyone during FB/BH/FC/whatever. Because every other squishies are scared ****less to take the initiative to run into mobs and that wastes time. As a BM I can run into mobs, tank them, stun them, heal myself if the Cleric is slow, and kill them at the same time in the process. When the Barb sucks and can't keep aggro off me from bosses, I won't die in one hit. When mobs are camping dead bodies so the Cleric can't res them, I'll lure them away.

    If other squad members are any decent, they'll notice what you are doing unless you suck. So just play good and don't suck.
  • DrunkWizard - Lost City
    DrunkWizard - Lost City Posts: 523 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    i like bms...good ones not those who cant stun the mobs when cleric/veno/archer/wizard takes agrgo accidentaly from barb when hes tanking more than 1 at a time.i see lots of bms who just swing their axes n spam some skills.
    Some bms not even use the dragon skill at bosses which helps a lot to increase the damage.

    b:bye as i said i like bms but not the lazy ones.
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  • Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »
    Some bms not even use the dragon skill at bosses which helps a lot to increase the damage.

    Depends tbh a good BM will judge how good the tank is at holding agro before using Dragons.. If the tank isnt very good then amping the dmg for the DD classes isnt going to help him.
    Personally if the tank is struggling to hold agro i wont use HF, I will save the sparks to drop myriad on the boss if/when the squishies steal agro.
  • Kalee - Lost City
    Kalee - Lost City Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Yer blademasters r alright but i think they get off too easy. When in HH and bosses if they r not tanking they just leave their characters to attack while clerics need to be at the keyboard at all times incase someone dies. Veno's r 50/50, they can easily change from range to melee in 1 sec. But mages also have to click the attacks because they r ranged as well. Barbs need to make sure they hold agro and archers can do anything they want basically.

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