Are Bms underappreciated?

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

Well i play another BM character and i noticed that while I was in frost there is a room in which u can get a lot of exp, well while doing that room if the cleric dies because she/he gets aggro everyone blames the BM for not stunning or using alpha male to get the aggro. But if everyone survive they thank the barb for doing a good job. It has happened to me a lot in TTs too. If someone gets accidental aggro and are dies they blame the BM for not getting the aggro from the squishies and if BMs do get the aggro and die in the process no one says anything. And even if the BM dies 20 times during the run they still thank the barb for doing a good job. WTF!!!!

Alyyy - Sanctuary

BMs arent as important as clerics....

question answered

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »

BMs arent as important as clerics....

question answered

Well lets see if bms don't get the aggro clerics are dead (in frost) and a dead cleric is useless so i would i say BMs are important.

anwynd

every class has its moments where it is underappreciated every class has certian types of jobs its supose to do but allways remember wut mostly counts is you did your fair share of work(assuming you actually did) then you should be proud of your self even if other people dont apreciate wut you do or did

RaDeSK - Sanctuary

huauhahua that will cause ppl fighting, hum in short words:



your class owns pk/tw, beside that bm = just another one in the party.
if someone say => why the hell you did not took the aggro or stunned? It's because someone was expecting that you do that, or you really want that the barbarians do the whole thing alone and you want to be a watcher?
And as it was stated above my post => you're not important as a Cleric or Barbarian.

RaDeSK - Sanctuary

Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well lets see if bms don't get the aggro clerics are dead (in frost) and a dead cleric is useless so i would i say BMs are important.

no, because you'll die since you can't tank boss alone.

Starchief - Sanctuary

BMs arent really appreciated because we dont really excel at anything. BM is just well balanced and doesnt really bring anything to a squad. You will always be out tanked by a barb, you will always be out DDd by archer and mages and such. you have one buff which is worthless half the time. Just re roll as a cleric, everyone loves a cleric b:dirty

anwynd

a barbarain can be replaced by a bm,archer & wiz in certian situations so keep tht in mind the only class in my opinion tht is more important & the one to risk your life for is the cleric but dont give them to much praise you could just be using pots & other items to heal your selfb:victory

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

RaDeSK - Sanctuary wrote: »

no, because you'll die since you can't tank boss alone.

You just said it, if BMs can't tank then why should they take the aggro?

Wrathfulsynn - Heavens Tear

Hi, I'm a wizard. I'm only good for three things. Tanking magic mobs/bosses, keeping a lonely cleric alive for the first fifteen seconds of a Pole/Nob kill, and blowing stuff right the **** up. You think you're unappreciated? I know my selfworth. I am half and half of the elf classes. That's all. You want a magic tank? Get a cleric. They can keep themselves alive AND take about the same damage. You wanna keep a cleric alive? Sounds like you want another cleric, if you ask me. You wanna bomb the **** out of everything? That sounds like an Archer and Cleric, right there.

I would be great in RB, Zhen, and FF...but my AoE range sucks, my HP is forever low, and I am so squishy I still have trouble in an FB51. You think you got it bad? Make a wizard, get it to 90, and realize your the last in line for ANY TT gear. You're a BM. Shut it up or suck it up.

anwynd

no need to be offensiveb:victory

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

If the barb dies, and you keep the cleric from keeping aggro and survive (either as second tank or just long enough for the barb to come back to life and take over)

THEN you get appreciation.

It's rare that the BM gets a chance to shine. When you do, and then you muff it - of course you get shouted at.

I don't think anyone gets as many egoboos as they think they deserve.

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If the barb dies, and you keep the cleric from keeping aggro and survive (either as second tank or just long enough for the barb to come back to life and take over)

THEN you get appreciation.

It's rare that the BM gets a chance to shine. When you do, and then you muff it - of course you get shouted at.

I don't think anyone gets as many egoboos as they think they deserve.

I am not asking for "kneel down and worship me" appreciation. Just a ty to the BM when he just saved an squad wipe out or just saved the squishies from dieing.

Starchief - Sanctuary

when people thank me, I turn around and say "stfu n00b"

Admante - Dreamweaver

My first FC ever was with a BM tank, no barb at all. That was one of the smoothest runs I have ever had.

Feed me more HF.

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My first FC ever was with a BM tank, no barb at all. That was one of the smoothest runs I have ever had.

Feed me more HF.

True, i have had barbs and clerics die and squad still surviving while doing a large group of mobs (physical mobs) thx to bms.

Vinat - Sanctuary

i appreciate bms. they're sexy

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear

i think im the rare barb that actually apriecates bms
if theres a bm i dont have to worry like **** with losing agro during aoeing
they make my job easier at times

but if you dont got axes or fists you will nearly always be unwanted

Quilue - Sanctuary

wtf is OP a former cleric?

"WAI DOES NO ONE THANK ME?" thats what clerics sound like...and that's what you sound like

i don't need thanks for a smooth fc run. i come out of that cave in under 90min and that's thanks enough.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Well pretty sure BMs get more appreciation than an Archer or a Wizard.

That being said, just do that youre supposed to do, say "good job everyone and thank you" at the end of the run and leave with your drops and share of exp. Once thats done, hang out with friends and have a jolly good time. b:victory

As far as I am concerned, it doesnt matter to me who tanks, who controls aggro, who saves squishies, as long as everyone gets through without much dying and the goal is accomplished. Thats all that really matters.

I wouldnt thank a cleric for healing the squad since thats similar to thanking a barb/BM for tanking/holding aggro or archer/wizard/veno for DDing. Appreciation is given when you do something beyond your expected role in a squad.

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well pretty sure BMs get more appreciation than an Archer or a Wizard.

That being said, just do that youre supposed to do, say "good job everyone and thank you" at the end of the run and leave with your drops and share of exp. Once thats done, hang out with friends and have a jolly good time. b:victory

As far as I am concerned, it doesnt matter to me who tanks, who controls aggro, who saves squishies, as long as everyone gets through without much dying and the goal is accomplished. Thats all that really matters.

I wouldnt thank a cleric for healing the squad since thats similar to thanking a barb/BM for tanking/holding aggro or archer/wizard/veno for DDing. Appreciation is given when you do something beyond your expected role in a squad.

So unless a BMs job is to sacrifice himself for the squad your saying when he does so needs to get thanked right? Thats all I ask.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

I wouldnt thank a person for performing their role in a squad and neither would expect such appreciation in return.

Do you hear any of the following?

"Thank you archers and wizards for not stealing aggro from the tank and doing the best dmg eva!!!"

"Thank you veno for doing an excellent pulling of the mobs"

I dont thank a cleric for healing/buffing people in squad nor the barb for tanking cos thats what theyre supposed to do. However I would thank a out of squad cleric/wizard for healing/buffing me without asking for it.

Caede - Dreamweaver

It's quite simple, really. If a cleric dies because a BM/Barb didn't catch aggro before the mob/boss/whatever reaches the squad, the whole team will get wiped unless they run. Far. In BHs/FBs/FCs, if your cleric dies in the middle of a fight, can a BM pull healing spells out of their ****? No. I'm not saying clerics can tank or something - but still, DDers vary from all classes and a BM isn't necessarily of dire importance. However, there's no replacement for the cleric class.

So treat us nicely. ): We heal you, cure you of status ailments and keep you alive. You can return the last favor.

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I wouldnt thank a person for performing their role in a squad and neither would expect such appreciation in return.

Do you hear any of the following?

"Thank you archers and wizards for not stealing aggro from the tank and doing the best dmg eva!!!"

"Thank you veno for doing an excellent pulling of the mobs"

I dont thank a cleric for healing/buffing people in squad nor the barb for tanking cos thats what theyre supposed to do. However I would thank a out of squad cleric/wizard for healing/buffing me without asking for it.

So a BMs role is being a sacrificial piece in the squad? read the above thread plz

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

I voted sometimes.

Personally I've never had a problem in FC squads. Some of the teams I did it with prefered 2 BMs for even more stuns, AOEs and offtanking than only one BM. Then again, FC's build for AOEing, and let's face it BMs: we're good AOEers. We CAN hold aggro and live in a FC run; we're the ones who can run up to bishops and stun them without getting stunned in return (or live through stuns when we have enough chi), and we're the ones who take the aggro off the DDs.

In TT it's another story: who wants a BM? We're minor DDs compared to archers, wizzies, venos, psychics, sins, even clerics... and we're technically not as good tanks as a barb. We're far from being useless; we're simply not vital. I'm pretty sure barbs enjoy our pdef buff, and to have someone to offtank when they die for whatever reason.

But when we sacrifice for the team, some people still credit barb or cleric. This isn't just in this game though, mind you... I used to play support classes and offtanks in other games, and it's often the case: you're sacrificing yourself the entire run, yet no one notices your work... except someone who's doing the same job. You're kinda your own little unit and still be able to work in a group.

However, I'm guessing you're doing something right when people ask you to come with them another time. It's some form of appreciation.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Mkjngb - Sanctuary wrote: »

So a BMs role is being a sacrificial piece in the squad? read the above thread plz

don't think other DD classes never had to pull adds off a cleric...yeah, your role is pretty much being a sacrificial piece in a squad. ever seen clerics use a scroll or go to town when a squad wipes? what do you call that?

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

However, I'm guessing you're doing something right when people ask you to come with them another time. It's some form of appreciation.

this is all that needs to be said honestly.

tweakz

Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »

BMs arent really appreciated because we dont really excel at anything. BM is just well balanced and doesnt really bring anything to a squad. You will always be out tanked by a barb, you will always be out DDd by archer and mages and such. you have one buff which is worthless half the time. Just re roll as a cleric, everyone loves a cleric b:dirty

I'd rather have two tank bms than a barb in ff. Near the beginning of FF there are groups composed of 3 mobs where the barb will jump on aggro on the center big guy. I'll send pet, soul degen, amp, then if I use myriad or noxious gas I have those little mobs on me. That doesn't happen when a BM goes in. BMs are also way valuable on bishops and mobs as well as in RB. AoE grinding a with BM is a treat, while with a barb: I'd be stealing aggro. I understand that BMs don't have an AoE aggro skill, but I don't think they need it. 2 good BM's can make the mobs in FF go fast and easy, 2 good venos can make the bosses go fast and easy. All the barb brings is buffs which aren't needed by everyone.

BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear

just a question....so what? so what if ur unappriciated...what will du do? ...in facht u can do nothing. well only one thing...get ur gear to +10 and build up ur rep so everyone will know u owe the dungeons. thats it. buts its stupid to try and QQ bout this in forums. damn i'm so tired of listening to this ****. suck it up thats it or get better to prove urself. i myself am a sin as u can see....what do u think will i have to go through?. no squads(TT, etc) cause i really am unsuited for that(no real pt buffs or skills) DD will be a pain cause we have buffs which increase our output so fast even an archer can't catch up(dps/crit, wolf emblem) so in the end we can'T always go all out. narrows the squad possibilitys.( if we can'T go all out to be better than archers why bother with inviting then)...and so on....u see many disadvantages.....and i don't QQ. i play the class because i have fun, thats it. if u think ur unappriciated go roll a barb or a cleric...in fact clerics are always needed no matter how many of them u have^^

(kinda feel stupid to even answer to that QQ, but i am bored)

Elviron - Dreamweaver

@Mkjngb
As far as am concerned, every class (BMs included) is a sacrificial member, save for the tank and the healer. They are to be kept alive at all costs. I am pretty sure you can use your skills to do that much and even save the DDers should a mob get through to them.

However, in cases where the tank/cleric doesnt do their roles well and are being a pain even after being told, I for one will not sacrifice to save their butts. I rather find another squad.

In the end, do what it takes to keep everyone alive and in the end you get a good job as appreciation.

As for the FC run, if the barb loses aggro, the next line of defense is you with your awesome AOE skills. Hence if you failed at holding them while the others recover, I believe you get shouted. However if you did hold it, its considered that you fulfilled your role and dont get a thanks either since thats what youre supposed to do anyways. This is the same for every class.

Kephras - Heavens Tear

I've said it before in other threads like this, so I'll summarize:

BM good for party. Me like.

Maybe that was a little too cave-man, but of the DD classes I favor BMs above the rest. Wizard-buff is all but useless, they're squishy, and they present a serious aggro threat unless they're very skilled and know just the right amount of damage they can do. Archers less so, plus Sharp is handy and I like the extra bit of evasion (and speed! tiger+gear+buff = faster than panther).
BMs are all phys damage, which means my Devour (-50% PDef) is extra-useful, and even when they go all-out (unless they're demon fist-users b:embarrass) they don't threaten to take aggro from me.
And of course, they're great if things get messy. I don't trust a wiz or archer to have the same crowd-control ability.

EDIT: @ tweakz

tweakz wrote: »

I'd rather have two tank bms than a barb in ff. Near the beginning of FF there are groups composed of 3 mobs where the barb will jump on aggro on the center big guy. I'll send pet, soul degen, amp, then if I use myriad or noxious gas I have those little mobs on me. That doesn't happen when a BM goes in.

Typically in those situations, I go the following route:
Alpha-male + Roar -> Sunder
It's not perfect, but I've found Roar + Sunder will hold the attention of adds for a while, unless someone starts actively pounding on them. If the party sticks to AOEs and concentrates on my mob, it usually goes down before the others decide to break off. If you find yourself with a barb, suggest this to them if they're not being terribly hard-headed (as I know some can be). For difficult cases, I de-tiger and use Wrath after reaming the main target.

Mkjngb - Sanctuary

BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

just a question....so what? so what if ur unappriciated...what will du do? ...in facht u can do nothing. well only one thing...get ur gear to +10 and build up ur rep so everyone will know u owe the dungeons. thats it. buts its stupid to try and QQ bout this in forums. damn i'm so tired of listening to this ****. suck it up thats it or get better to prove urself. i myself am a sin as u can see....what do u think will i have to go through?. no squads(TT, etc) cause i really am unsuited for that(no real pt buffs or skills) DD will be a pain cause we have buffs which increase our output so fast even an archer can't catch up(dps/crit, wolf emblem) so in the end we can'T always go all out. narrows the squad possibilitys.( if we can'T go all out to be better than archers why bother with inviting then)...and so on....u see many disadvantages.....and i don't QQ. i play the class because i have fun, thats it. if u think ur unappriciated go roll a barb or a cleric...in fact clerics are always needed no matter how many of them u have^^

(kinda feel stupid to even answer to that QQ, but i am bored)

Let me ask u a question. If u so tired of reading this kind of stuff then why come here read this and comment on it? Did i ask u to do it? No so why don't just stfu and **** off