Requesting an official respnse in regards to Nirvana recasting process

Ninnuam - Sanctuary
Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
edited April 2010 in General Discussion
My post is getting cut off. Trying to fix it up >.<
Recasting is an ancient Tideborn method for upgrading equipment. It allows individuals to upgrade their existing gear into new gear, while still maintaining their original attributes, refinement level, and sockets. Essentially through the use of this system, players can take their existing high level equipment, and transform it into Palace of Nirvana gear, and without losing any of the hard work they’ve already invested into their gear. This process of course requires certain materials. Recasting your equipment without these materials will still upgrade your equipment to Palace of Nirvana gear, just without any of your existing attributes/refinement level/sockets.

Quoted directly from the official Nirvana guide, written by PWE. I would like to stress out the word recasting, not reforging.

You have already given us a lecture on semantics between the words recast (the initial step of recasting lunar/TT gear into nirvana) and reforging (the second step of reforging nirvana gear to get new upgrades) as seen here.

As per the quote above, we were clearly promised means to keep all our invested hard work (ie money spent) when recasting.

As we can see here the official GM response makes the above quote a lie.

My question to you is, can we expect your company to keep their word and deliver what you promised (be it through increased number of Rupture/Uncanny crystals, or the infamous Chienkun stones), or are we to assume that we, your player base and customers have been once again, blatantly lied to.

If former, when can we expect changes be made to the existing system?
If latter, can we expect an official explanation for this issue or are we to assume this is another "Permanent Charm Packs" fiasco. In other words, rather blatant false advertising of your product?

Thank you.
b:dirty
Post edited by Ninnuam - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6630981&postcount=44

    thats as official as u can get.

    the key word here is "REFORGE"
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Bravo. If you actually took the time to read my post you would see that is one of the things I would like clarified as it stands in direct contrast with the official Nirvana guide.
    b:dirty
  • Psychosiss - Heavens Tear
    Psychosiss - Heavens Tear Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    how much more clarified can it get then that? or better yet why not just ticket them for clarification? u wont get many answers on the forums if u havent already noticed by the dozens of other threads about nirvana recasting thats on the first page alone.
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm beginning to think even the GM's don't know. They don't develop this content, the devs do and they rely on the devs for all information about it. I get the impression the devs basically threw out the new content as fast as they could and are just sitting there waiting for the money to roll in without really giving a **** about details.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Obvious troll is obvious.

    I'm giving the GMs the benefit of the doubt since it is possible they weren't completely clear on the issue either.

    I have made a clear distinction between recasting and reforging. I'm also fully aware that it is not possible to keep your invested work and money when using the recast feature at this time.

    A mistake has been quite obviously made on their part. It most definitely is not in the meaning of the word "recast" as the explanation that follows makes it crystal clear that the intention was in fact, for us to be able to keep everything we invested into our gear during the initial process of recasting (or whatever you want to call it). If you are unclear on this part, I would like to point you to the above quote.

    We have had +10 dragon orb sales, high grade shards released through packs et cetera. People spent their real money on this, and lots of it, under the impression they would be able to keep all of it. That clearly isn't the case.

    I would like to think my question is pretty straightfoward. We're all but human and we all make mistakes. Was this a mistake and if so, can we expect it to be fixed?
    If not, it is clearly false advertising.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    And I didn't file a ticket because this issue does not only concern me, it concerns the entire community.
    If you do not care one way or the other, I will politely ask that you stay out of the thread.
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think even the GM's don't know. They don't develop this content, the devs do and they rely on the devs for all information about it. I get the impression the devs basically threw out the new content as fast as they could and are just sitting there waiting for the money to roll in without really giving a **** about details.

    Crossed my mind, but I beg to differ. The devs made chienkun stones. PWE wrote the guide I'm quoting and decided not to release them.

    It is obvious that changes can be made in order to keep refines and shards since it was done for the reforge process. If they plan on adjusting the recast process in the same manner or release the chienkun stones we do not have a problem. That decision is up to PWE however, not the devs.

    If PWE is satisfied with the situation as-is however, I plan to do my part and encourage others to file complaints to the Business Bureau.

    It may be futile, but I know I'm not alone in this.
    b:dirty
  • Ramonalee - Dreamweaver
    Ramonalee - Dreamweaver Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Bravo! PWE has done it again. They have led us all to believe one thing when in actuality it's another thing. Let's hope this really was just a mistake and that it is fixed in the next patch. I hate to say it but I'm starting to feel like PWE is a scam and I as well as thousands of others have fallen for it.
  • ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear
    ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

    So... to upgrade without losing sockets we need special materials which are not in game.

    They changed reforging to work without our unobtainable materials, but they did not change any other aspect of recasting.

    I am sorry but I do not see where they were engaged in false advertising. However, I do think they were obscure, and past issues with translations make us doubt everything we see.

    That said, maybe they will be adjusting the entire recasting process -- I do not know yet.

    From the same " Official Nirvana " thread
    The materials required for the recasting process are attained through the completion of boss encounters within the Palace of Nirvana

    So... to upgrade without losing sockets we need special materials which are not in game.

    The issue is... Players had been told months before the release of the expansion that CK stones would not be in PWI.
    So based on that knowledge and the original Thread I think people were right to pretty much assume materials used for recasting that are ingame ( raptures/uncannys) would carry over refines/sockets.
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This is a huge failure, you're not going to get a response from GMs. After all, the last thing that you got was basically just highlights with a between-the-lines way of saying "Your fault".
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    RECASTING is the process of transforming TT/lunar into Nirvana gear.

    REFORGING is the process of upgrading already existing nirvana gear.

    The above quote clearly states that RECASTING enables us to keep refines/shards etc.

    Not releasing the "required materials" after milking money for +10 dragon orbs and anni packs falls under the false advertising.

    Reading comprehension people.
    b:dirty
  • Vivre - Harshlands
    Vivre - Harshlands Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    When I read about Nirvana, I also had the impression that all refines, sockets carried over through the whole process. Then someone from my server lost a +12 weapon while under that same impression.

    Even though PWI might not be 100% legally obligated to change or recompensate, it's still good business to play fair. Most of us aren't that attached to the game that we'll keep charging gold when we lose faith in the company.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    What is this 'res' you speak of? b:cute
  • Collapse - Harshlands
    Collapse - Harshlands Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The best you're going to get is a vague response that dances around what you actually wanna know, which is Going from Lunar => Nirvana = you loose refines/sahrds. Nirvana => upgraded Nirvana = you keep the refines/shards your raging **** decided to re-add. End of
    Currently playing : |||| Waiting for:
    Allods |||||| G.W.2
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    Bloodline Champions
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »
    So... to upgrade without losing sockets we need special materials which are not in game.

    They changed reforging to work without our unobtainable materials, but they did not change any other aspect of recasting.

    I am sorry but I do not see where they were engaged in false advertising. However, I do think they were obscure, and past issues with translations make us doubt everything we see.
    They held a sale on ocean orbs (+10 refine) and released a bunch of packs right around the time the Nirvana intro was posted. People spent $$$ refining their lunar, TT99, and 100 weapons, and on packs to get sapphire/garnet gems to socket those same weapons, with the understanding that they would be able to transfer those over to their Nirvana weapons.

    With this one small change, those cash expenditures have been rendered useless for endgame gear. If they want the same high refines and shards on their Nirvana weapons, PWI is telling them they need to pay that money all over again.

    I'm not one of those people so I'm not directly affected by this. But I do recognize that those people are the bread and butter of this game - the folks who let PWI stay in business by paying RL $$$ for the game's server and network connection, and PWI staff's salaries. If those people feel sufficiently screwed over by this and quit, the game could become financially nonviable and shut down. Which would affect me.
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    We have had +10 dragon orb sales, high grade shards released through packs et cetera. People spent their real money on this, and lots of it, under the impression they would be able to keep all of it. That clearly isn't the case.
    Pure speculation, but I am beginning to wonder if two GMs leaving the company at about the same time had any connection to this. If I were the one who had told the entire playerbase that it was safe to buy up all those orbs and shards, only to have a management decision turn my statement into a lie, I would sure feel like quitting.
  • Xorand - Sanctuary
    Xorand - Sanctuary Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    T
    Pure speculation, but I am beginning to wonder if two GMs leaving the company at about the same time had any connection to this. If I were the one who had told the entire playerbase that it was safe to buy up all those orbs and shards, only to have a management decision turn my statement into a lie, I would sure feel like quitting.

    Two GMs? b:shocked
    We know Spoons left, who is the other one?
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think the OP has a point in requesting an official clarification, which would, one way or the other, very likely prove benefficial to the comunity at large. However it seems this issue is still on the table on the company's end, and PWI staff may not be forthcoming with an answer until they've explored what can be currently done, given what they're given to work with by PWE, and what they believe themselves would be the most effective solution.

    Unless you have the means to actually reforge atm (i think it now stands clear what recasting would do) it remains a moot point however. To people in this possition i would suggest sending a ticket, as GMs may be able to help on individual cases.

    Clarification will very likely be forthcoming once the issue has been resolved on their end. Until then it remains unlikely that we will see any sort of official statement.

    Some people seem to forget that the content is developed in China and that, aside from translation issues, it may be subject to changes beyond PWi's ability to control.

    Edit; It really is not my intention to in any way justify PWI's actions, just look at my posting history, but i think it seems reasonable to conclude that they themselves are struggling to resolve this. Mine is merely a pragmatic point of view.
  • FranzKafka - Dreamweaver
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Official response is:Ignore them they'll get tired in the end and drop it.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I do not know what level some of your main characters are, of if these are your mains and you're trying to muster up 500k for your TT60 weapon, but I am getting the impression some of you trolling are completely oblivious to whats going on here.

    PWE shows up one day and goes "Good news everyone! We will be releasing an expansion pack soon and one of the features is a new instance in which you will be able to upgrade all your hard earned gear while keeping all shards and refines!".

    Community goes "Yay!"

    PWE releases +10 dragon orbs, anni packs, coral packs, frost packs, whatchamallit packs, socket stone sales et cetera.

    Community, under the impression that they will be able to keep everything in the upcoming expansion, spends hundreds of millions of coin on their gear, and/or hundreds (in some cases thousands) of real life dollars.

    They get their sets, weapons, socket them, refine them and shard them. Not just any sets and weapons. Sets and weapons PWE specifically told us we would be able to upgrade, while retaining everything we put into it (namely TT99/100 and gold lunar glade equivalents).

    Then the expansions comes about, and PWE says "Soz folks, thanks for the cash but we changed our mind".

    And now you have people in +10 4 socket TT99 gear and +12 2 socket weapons with G12 shards in them. Hundreds of millions of coin gone. Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars wasted. And those people are supposed to cut their losses and start from scratch?

    Now I'm sorry but that just doesn't fly. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well not gonna happen.

    Hopefully some of you can see the entire picture now, and why I'm so keen on getting a clarification on the issue.
    b:dirty
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I do not know what level some of your main characters are, of if these are your mains and you're trying to muster up 500k for your TT60 weapon, but I am getting the impression some of you trolling are completely oblivious to whats going on here.

    PWE shows up one day and goes "Good news everyone! We will be releasing an expansion pack soon and one of the features is a new instance in which you will be able to upgrade all your hard earned gear while keeping all shards and refines!".

    Community goes "Yay!"

    PWE releases +10 dragon orbs, anni packs, coral packs, frost packs, whatchamallit packs, socket stone sales et cetera.

    Community, under the impression that they will be able to keep everything in the upcoming expansion, spends hundreds of millions of coin on their gear, and/or hundreds (in some cases thousands) of real life dollars.

    They get their sets, weapons, socket them, refine them and shard them. Not just any sets and weapons. Sets and weapons PWE specifically told us we would be able to upgrade, while retaining everything we put into it (namely TT99/100 and gold lunar glade equivalents).

    Then the expansions comes about, and PWE says "Soz folks, thanks for the cash but we changed our mind".

    And now you have people in +10 4 socket TT99 gear and +12 2 socket weapons with G12 shards in them. Hundreds of millions of coin gone. Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars wasted. And those people are supposed to cut their losses and start from scratch?

    Now I'm sorry but that just doesn't fly. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well not gonna happen.

    Hopefully some of you can see the entire picture now, and why I'm so keen on getting a clarification on the issue.

    Dude, we do realize the position you guys are in. I had to start from scratch on a PvE server when things started going downhill with game balance. I even quit the game for some months after that as things continued to get worse. I'm currently level capped on my main until i can get a barb to decent level and become capable of doing more profitable TT/RB runs... And yes, i do see the irony on a veno making a barb alt for mat/coin farming.

    However i still stand by what i posted. It may not be pretty, but with PWI now engaged in some sort of attrition war with a large part of it's playerbase i've found practical points of view are the only ones that will get you through staying in the game.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wasn't directed at you at all. Rather some of the tideborn/level 1-10 alts that posted previously ;)
    b:dirty
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ninnuam has a lot of patience, and is asking some very legitimate questions. I also would like to see them answered by someone "relevant."
  • BullyRobber - Harshlands
    BullyRobber - Harshlands Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If no GMs provide relevant answers to this false advertising, players wasting money on refine thinking it would transfer to Nirvana, it is undoubtably an unethical business practice. No business, even an online gaming business, should provide such a false advertising that costs players hundreds to thousands of dollars on their gear.

    I suggest if we as a player base don't get relevant answers, or compensation for the money loss due to poor advertising,
    File a complaint here: https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx

    Business Infomation:
    Perfect World Entertainment Inc.
    Redwood City, CA 94062
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree, there needs to be some continuity between what the official Palace Guide to Nirvana, what GMs have stated in the past and what has been said in patch notes.

    GM's merely moderate the game, fix in-game problems, check on cheating, bannable offenses, etc.. They are not masters of the content. One GM on Lost City a while back thought Harpy Wraith was a FB79 boss... I mean, really. lol They just know what they're told for the most part. But they do need to outline what can and can't be done with the system, since it does end up concerning a lot of people's hard earned cash spent on pixels.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Is it that hard for a GM to clear the air regarding this whole darn nirvana transformation process? Or do they even care?
  • ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear
    ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Is it that hard for a GM to clear the air regarding this whole darn nirvana transformation process? Or do they even care?

    Well once they figure out how it works themselves lol.

    It would be nice if they took the time and effort to make an up to date guide like this one

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862&highlight=nirvana

    Rather that the odd line of vague text now and again..
    The proccess shouldnt be left to players trial and error
  • Kephras - Heavens Tear
    Kephras - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Oddly enough, I brought this to the attention of a friend intent on recasting her TT99 to Nirvana, and she said a few on our server had already done so, and the refines and whatnot had carried over.

    Muddies the water a bit, if true - but as I'm hearing it third-party, I cannot verify. b:surrender
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Is it that hard for a GM to clear the air regarding this whole darn nirvana transformation process? Or do they even care?

    As has already been said, GMs only really know what they are told. It's not like they're going to be reforging their gear to Nirvana gear after all so they aren't going to go out and test it on themselves, are they?

    It's not necessarily a lack of care on the GMs part - but it is a case of very poor translation and potential false advertising that you can, should you so wish to, report to the BBB. I'm quite sure GMs have been flooded with tickets regarding this, and...

    I can also say that, while GMs don't work weekends, they managed to lock a thread pertaining to this very topic late on Saturday night. Now although that topic had turned into a fight at one stage and then gone off topic prior to it's locking, you can probably guess that if a GM comes along to lock that topic and say the issue has been dealt with, GMs do care (reasons behind this I won't speculate, I don't want to bash a GM at all, they don't have easy jobs) and they are attempting to do something. What that something is I don't know.

    Bottom line: you can't clear up what you yourself don't actually know.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    gosh.. this is getting no where. If the GMs dont know, then what's the point of having GMs?b:bye
  • AbbyDabby - Sanctuary
    AbbyDabby - Sanctuary Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Having sent in numerous tickets on different items throughout my last 14 months of playing PWI, when I have questioned or requested clarification on a specific item listed by PWI, the official response I usually got was "that was for a different version, it doesn't apply here". (This of course after the automatic "please send in a screenshot" reply.)

    I assume that is their catch-all for items they don't wish to fix/clarify.

    Money talks, so until it hits them in the wallet, it probably won't be fixed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear
    ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ...................
  • homiegdoggfool
    homiegdoggfool Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    troll.


    /thread & topic
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    ಢ_ಢೂ : the face of many posters that admire you SS.

    ಠ_ಠೊ : the face of many posters that are confused.
  • frankieraye
    frankieraye Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My post is getting cut off. Trying to fix it up >.<


    Quoted directly from the official Nirvana guide, written by PWE. I would like to stress out the word recasting, not reforging.

    You have already given us a lecture on semantics between the words recast (the initial step of recasting lunar/TT gear into nirvana) and reforging (the second step of reforging nirvana gear to get new upgrades) as seen here.

    As per the quote above, we were clearly promised means to keep all our invested hard work (ie money spent) when recasting.

    As we can see here the official GM response makes the above quote a lie.

    Hi,

    The post you originally referred to (http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862) was a preview of how this system would work. The post itself was made on 11-18-2009 at 03:00 PM--about a month before the system was actually patched into the game.

    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.

    Initially, the Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones) was required for any kind of action with regards to Nirvana Gear creation/modification-- including the "Reforge" option. Hoping to soften the blow that the lack of this item would cause, we were able to rework the "Reforge" option so that the Chienkun stones were no longer required for the refinery/socket transfer to be possible.

    So as you can see, we've been working with what we have to make this process more accessible, but we do apologize for the misunderstanding that arose from this preview, which was published under the assumption that the necessary item would be implemented in time.

    Thanks,
    FrankieRaye :)
    PWI Wiki | Dragon Points | GM Support | Private Message

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