Psys, useless?

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Comments

  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Still going at it I see?

    Guys, knock it off and go back to our respective forum section, debating further just brings more hate from different sides.


    fishies wanna replace classes.. let them be. If you dislike fishies, kick them or simply leave the squad. That will make you happier if you ignore them. If they KS you on purpose, screenshot them and send ticket.

    If they failz in squads, please post a screenshot of their epicz failure on the screenshot section of the forums, so that people can get a good laugh.

    If you are willing to go in a squad with those fishies, just keep quiet and do your job. At the end of the run, leave squad and say your thanks.

    If the said fishies sounds irritating during the run, simply blacklist them. If you are a DD, you always have the option of not DD-ing the fishies target.

    If you are a barb, you always have a choice not to take back aggro and let that fish die.

    If you are a BM, you too have the choice of not taking back aggro when that fish pulls aggro.

    Finally, if you are a cleric, your job is to heal tanks. So you always have a choice to let the fish who pulled aggro die.

    Also, if you are the squad leader, you could kick the fish out at the last sliver of the boss HP if that fish irritates you non-stop for pulling aggro.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Still going at it I see?

    Guys, knock it off and go back to our respective forum section, debating further just brings more hate from different sides.


    fishies wanna replace classes.. let them be. If you dislike fishies, kick them or simply leave the squad. That will make you happier if you ignore them. If they KS you on purpose, screenshot them and send ticket.

    If they failz in squads, please post a screenshot of their epicz failure on the screenshot section of the forums, so that people can get a good laugh.

    If you are willing to go in a squad with those fishies, just keep quiet and do your job. At the end of the run, leave squad and say your thanks.

    If the said fishies sounds irritating during the run, simply blacklist them. If you are a DD, you always have the option of not DD-ing the fishies target.

    If you are a barb, you always have a choice not to take back aggro and let that fish die.

    If you are a BM, you too have the choice of not taking back aggro when that fish pulls aggro.

    Finally, if you are a cleric, your job is to heal tanks. So you always have a choice to let the fish who pulled aggro die.

    Also, if you are the squad leader, you could kick the fish out at the last sliver of the boss HP if that fish irritates you non-stop for pulling aggro.

    Whoever does that to my fishy is gonna get one shotted b:angry

    but idc about all the other ones, i would probably laugh if that happen in a BH or something.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Got any kind of Final Solution on your mind Giodia ? Maybe you think Tideborn are a race that doesn't deserve any kind of attention and should be slaughtered ? You know, world war II style.

    You sound more and more like a huge judgemental moron, it's actually funny.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • FranzKafka - Dreamweaver
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    BH69 example.cleric doesn't needs to aoe heal the group coz a "fish" can do that so no distraction on cleric or barb(if lower level).
    Ok now this thing about aggro stealing is plain stupid,we don't steal aggro more than a wizard or archer.Thing is most are new(sure i was)to a DD class so they had a bit of DD control in the start but i forgot the last time i stole aggro without wanting it.
    As much as it may seem that Giodia thinks ****,many people share the ideas and stick to the old classes(ecception is TT where people don't care if u are an archer/assassin/psy or just anothe barb DDing).But when it comes to gamma(i did none and i was one of the first people to do gamma with my barb)or FC(2 times and i was doing FC even before they nerfed it)so really no need to avoid them because people do that anyway.Mind you not because they share the level of stupidity of Giodia but because they learned things to do one way so if you make them try it other ways they are uber noobs(there is no level in ignorance).
    As for assassins wanting to replace archers/bms and psychics wizards.I don't want to replace a wizard,if I did I would have made a **** wizard not a psychic.I really don't understand people I wanna make the psychic in a party.If I DD better than the archer of a wizard is not because of the class but because I learned my skills well or maybe that wizard or that archers is slappy at DDing.
  • FapFapFap - Raging Tide
    FapFapFap - Raging Tide Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Still going at it I see?

    Guys, knock it off and go back to our respective forum section, debating further just brings more hate from different sides.


    fishies wanna replace classes.. let them be. If you dislike fishies, kick them or simply leave the squad. That will make you happier if you ignore them. If they KS you on purpose, screenshot them and send ticket.

    If they failz in squads, please post a screenshot of their epicz failure on the screenshot section of the forums, so that people can get a good laugh.

    If you are willing to go in a squad with those fishies, just keep quiet and do your job. At the end of the run, leave squad and say your thanks.

    If the said fishies sounds irritating during the run, simply blacklist them. If you are a DD, you always have the option of not DD-ing the fishies target.

    If you are a barb, you always have a choice not to take back aggro and let that fish die.

    If you are a BM, you too have the choice of not taking back aggro when that fish pulls aggro.

    Finally, if you are a cleric, your job is to heal tanks. So you always have a choice to let the fish who pulled aggro die.

    Also, if you are the squad leader, you could kick the fish out at the last sliver of the boss HP if that fish irritates you non-stop for pulling aggro.

    I don't want to replace anything, I mean I'm a fishie...I'm the most beautiful being evaaar! My skin is so smooth so everybody wants to touch and while meditating I'm the even more beautiful Mermaid-man! No need to replace b:victory

    To me the most annoying classes in runs are Archers, seen so many - even high lvl Archers - which aren't able to hold back to not pull aggro. And I'm not complaining anytime, cuz u can't do everything right everytime.

    It's a Clerics job to heal his Squad members. If he thinks he only has to heal the tank and when someone accidentially pulls aggro he thinks he doesn't have to heal-> he's a fail cleric.

    It's a Barbs job to hold aggro and get it again when a DD pulls it. If he thinks "nah, he pulled aggro, die ****" he's fail too.

    So if someones gonna screenshot a class 1 time they don't act perfectly in their squad cuz he doesn't like this class, lets him die and posts this ss, this is just selfownage.
    Selfownage cuz he is a selfish player and not able to work in a team and complaining about others trying to do their job while he isn't not even trying to do his own.

    I'm a fishie, I heal clerics when they got dmg and are too busy healin tank, venos when they are running a BH with you and no cleric in squad, I try to give Barbs permanent empowered vigor + I work as a DD.
    Never met someone who let me die when I pulled aggro (doesn't even happen more often than once a week..lol), just casted Psychic will, stood still and Barb does his job getting aggro again. Fine for everyone and I say thanks to a Barb who understands that Squads are teamplay.

    And if u are still too ignorant and think u know everything better: U can press the keys with letters printed on them to tell the one who you think is "fail" what he should be aware of or what he should do instead of blablabla, u know?

    To the wizzie <-> psy discussion:
    Why do u even compare those classes? cuz they cast spells? ridiculous..
    There are lots of ppl out there with classes which shouldn't own certain other classes, but somehow they do it, cuz they know how to play their class and they got >average equips.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Danja - Raging Tide
    Danja - Raging Tide Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i stoped playing PW for a year and come back to try out this new class. i kinda expected to see some racist comments from the Shems and long ears but i wouldnt expect a tail folk to let us take aggro and die. we will merge eventually. hopefully when the new skills come out or skills get adjusted people might say o **** we can use that.

    let me warn you of all the casters we are the only ones that dont have a skill that makes us move faster on land or recover mana yet. we might still impress
    THE DANN
  • PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear
    PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Giodia why don't you just stfu seriously how the **** are you going to be be a Tideborn and then talk sh*t about the class. You really need a life dude it's getting ridiculous. and If I was a GM I would close this thread because this thread wasn't meant to start arguments It was meant to give insight on the Psychic class

    Wizards= STFU AND GO TO YOUR ON DAMN SECTION AND QQ
    Everyone Else= Please leave if you have NOTHING positive to say about the Tideborn
    K thnx Byeb:byeb:byeb:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I'm the only Harpy, Who's Psychic and knows all!b:chuckleb:pleased

    Live Life How You wish To Live It.


    I love PWI, Teh Forums, and Konari b:thanks


    Is currently working on Wizzy (imo better than my Psy)b:surrender name: SaphiraGione
  • Shealu - Heavens Tear
    Shealu - Heavens Tear Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Giodia why don't you just stfu seriously how the **** are you going to be be a Tideborn and then talk sh*t about the class. You really need a life dude it's getting ridiculous. and If I was a GM I would close this thread because this thread wasn't meant to start arguments It was meant to give insight on the Psychic class

    Wizards= STFU AND GO TO YOUR ON DAMN SECTION AND QQ
    Everyone Else= Please leave if you have NOTHING positive to say about the Tideborn
    K thnx Byeb:byeb:byeb:bye

    b:chuckle Giodioa if i find you in game i kill you :P
  • PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear
    PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    b:chuckle Giodioa if i find you in game i kill you :P

    You shall add me as a friend in game >.>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I'm the only Harpy, Who's Psychic and knows all!b:chuckleb:pleased

    Live Life How You wish To Live It.


    I love PWI, Teh Forums, and Konari b:thanks


    Is currently working on Wizzy (imo better than my Psy)b:surrender name: SaphiraGione
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why, so much hate . . . b:sad or a troll ? that just found new thing to have fun

    Rather than keep saying them noob, annoying, idiot, etc . . . why not explain to them what should they do and never do.
    If the player was a stubborn person that won't hear you and keep do reckless thing . . . just finish mission quickly, or leave he or she to die alone, then remember those player.
    (you can't judge the entire class from some players that play them)
    peace b:victory

    These not just apply to new class . . .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    BH69 example.cleric doesn't needs to aoe heal the group coz a "fish" can do that so no distraction on cleric or barb(if lower level).
    Ok now this thing about aggro stealing is plain stupid,we don't steal aggro more than a wizard or archer.Thing is most are new(sure i was)to a DD class so they had a bit of DD control in the start but i forgot the last time i stole aggro without wanting it.
    As much as it may seem that Giodia thinks ****,many people share the ideas and stick to the old classes(ecception is TT where people don't care if u are an archer/assassin/psy or just anothe barb DDing).But when it comes to gamma(i did none and i was one of the first people to do gamma with my barb)or FC(2 times and i was doing FC even before they nerfed it)so really no need to avoid them because people do that anyway.Mind you not because they share the level of stupidity of Giodia but because they learned things to do one way so if you make them try it other ways they are uber noobs(there is no level in ignorance).
    As for assassins wanting to replace archers/bms and psychics wizards.I don't want to replace a wizard,if I did I would have made a **** wizard not a psychic.I really don't understand people I wanna make the psychic in a party.If I DD better than the archer of a wizard is not because of the class but because I learned my skills well or maybe that wizard or that archers is slappy at DDing.
    i like this fishy too :3
    *gives franz fishy food* uhh low fat ofc
    Giodia why don't you just stfu seriously how the **** are you going to be be a Tideborn and then talk sh*t about the class. You really need a life dude it's getting ridiculous. and If I was a GM I would close this thread because this thread wasn't meant to start arguments It was meant to give insight on the Psychic class

    Wizards= STFU AND GO TO YOUR ON DAMN SECTION AND QQ
    Everyone Else= Please leave if you have NOTHING positive to say about the Tideborn
    K thnx Byeb:byeb:byeb:bye

    i have a psychic too, i just dont like posting on itb:surrender


    you gotta understand some people play more than one class...
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • WraitHunter - Dreamweaver
    WraitHunter - Dreamweaver Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It's ok Mizuoni you can give me fat high fish food too it's ok :).
    Well It's been almost 4-5 months since I last played on my barb so I found it normally to post from the psychic.
    Now I'm exposed. b:chuckle
    P.S.If anyone is slow this is FranzKafka's ex barb.
  • aryannamage
    aryannamage Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Knock it off in here guys. Keep it friendly from now on.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Giodia why don't you just stfu seriously how the **** are you going to be be a Tideborn and then talk sh*t about the class. You really need a life dude it's getting ridiculous. and If I was a GM I would close this thread because this thread wasn't meant to start arguments It was meant to give insight on the Psychic class

    Wizards= STFU AND GO TO YOUR ON DAMN SECTION AND QQ
    Everyone Else= Please leave if you have NOTHING positive to say about the Tideborn
    K thnx Bye

    First, I play fishies too, so I'm offering the truth about the damn class.
    b:chuckle Giodioa if i find you in game i kill you :P
    You shall add me as a friend in game >.>

    To these 2: PVE server? find me on a blue name and kill me? Wow.. that's so stupid it hurts.

    Why, so much hate . . . b:sad or a troll ? that just found new thing to have fun

    Rather than keep saying them noob, annoying, idiot, etc . . . why not explain to them what should they do and never do.
    If the player was a stubborn person that won't hear you and keep do reckless thing . . . just finish mission quickly, or leave he or she to die alone, then remember those player.
    (you can't judge the entire class from some players that play them)
    peace.

    These not just apply to new class . . .

    This has been said and has been done before. Just like those 2 human waste above, they simply do not listen. All the want is to hear good thing about the class. No one is allowed to give the true insights into the class itself.

    Problems like chain-casting, aggro management were never addressed. But it does seems like the situation has gotten better. Maybe because most nubs have left?

    But I still do see a few left like the duo above.

    Find me in game and kill me on a PVE server? This joke really made my day.

    With regards to judging the class by a few, it's the general image they portray and you cannot blame me for having that bad impression till i'm not giving anyone else a chance.

    These players like those 2 are immature and spiteful. Much akin to 13 year olds.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    To these 2: PVE server? find me on a blue name and kill me? Wow.. that's so stupid it hurts.

    b:chuckle
    looooooool
    xD
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    b:chuckle
    looooooool
    xD

    Please add my line to your sig.... it will serve to remind those 2 of their .... insanity. b:chuckle
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Please add my line to your sig.... it will serve to remind those 2 of their .... insanity. b:chuckle

    Actually, I'm starting to wonder who started first. People like you who constantly and relentlessly bash Tideborn, or a few idiots that claimed to be above everybody else with their new fancy class.

    Nevertheless, and this too has been said a couple times, you just can't judge a whole bunch of players that chose to play a particular race in a freaking game just because some morons played it too and annoyed you.

    Morons are everywhere. And you of all people should know, since you qualify very well for that lovely adjective.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Actually, I'm starting to wonder who started first. People like you who constantly and relentlessly bash Tideborn, or a few idiots that claimed to be above everybody else with their new fancy class.

    Nevertheless, and this too has been said a couple times, you just can't judge a whole bunch of players that chose to play a particular race in a freaking game just because some morons played it too and annoyed you.

    Morons are everywhere. And you of all people should know, since you qualify very well for that lovely adjective.

    The fishies who wanted to replace older classes started it

    I just came to knock some sense into them
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Would be all fixed if there was an addional squad slot.
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The fishies who wanted to replace older classes started it

    I just came to knock some sense into them

    Oh yeah, mr. senseknocker... :x
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • FapFapFap - Raging Tide
    FapFapFap - Raging Tide Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited February 2010


    This has been said and has been done before. Just like those 2 human waste above, they simply do not listen. All the want is to hear good thing about the class. No one is allowed to give the true insights into the class itself.

    Problems like chain-casting, aggro management were never addressed. But it does seems like the situation has gotten better. Maybe because most nubs have left?

    But I still do see a few left like the duo above.

    Find me in game and kill me on a PVE server? This joke really made my day.

    With regards to judging the class by a few, it's the general image they portray and you cannot blame me for having that bad impression till i'm not giving anyone else a chance.

    These players like those 2 are immature and spiteful. Much akin to 13 year olds.

    So u are only able to quote those and give the same answer again and again, which is equal to: blablabla?
    Honestly, u can't bring no arguments and only give some **** answers to some "hail the fishieeeees!"-guys and expect others to be converted into fishie-haters.
    At least u can give this foolish try a bit more of a higher level to not appeal as ignorant.

    Maybe ur enunciation isn't like a 13 years old's, but ur thoughts are.

    Chain casting...made me laugh, what is the relation between fishies only and chain casting? Not our problem that u can't hold ur aggro lvl with ur psy or u meet new players who don't know about controlling aggro, but just try to get above 70 and not stick to the low lvls, where the number of noobs is higher than the number of fishies.


    And just to remember: I don't even compare "us" fishies to other classes...we are fishies, nothing else. Maybe I'll give it a try at 95+ but only PvP-wise, since I don't care about PvE...PvE is nothing but child's play once u understand the basics and this applies to every class.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Maybe I'll give it a try at 95+ but only PvP-wise, since I don't care about PvE...PvE is nothing but child's play once u understand the basics and this applies to every class.

    Then what do you think about people that like to play offline rpg in console, isn't they basically just play pve too ?
    Basically to beat pve here you need good team work, and know what you do in squad . . . . b:surrender you need to learning mobs too so it not just a child play. b:angry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • FapFapFap - Raging Tide
    FapFapFap - Raging Tide Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Then what do you think about people that like to play offline rpg in console, isn't they basically just play pve too ?
    Basically to beat pve here you need good team work, and know what you do in squad . . . . b:surrender you need to learning mobs too so it not just a child play. b:angry

    So all this is hard to learn? It's the same like in many other MMORPGs.
    What I think about ppl that play offline rpg? I don't care.
    Comparing PvE in Perfect World to some offline rpg is comparing like an airplane with a butterfly. It's a PWI-Forum and when i write PvE it's related to it, isn't it?
    *starts to call captain obvious* b:beg

    Teamwork isn't that hard anyways, or seen some squishie running to the boss and hitting him as hard as he can before the tank does? Or Clerics healing themselves only cuz a boss may AoE? Or, or, or, or....
    Just read the forums if u are a newb and u won't have a problem with PvE anymore. At least that's what I did when I first started to play a MMORPG and i can't understand those who say "It's sooo hard", except ppl who aren't able to read.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So all this is hard to learn? It's the same like in many other MMORPGs.
    What I think about ppl that play offline rpg? I don't care.
    Comparing PvE in Perfect World to some offline rpg is comparing like an airplane with a butterfly. It's a PWI-Forum and when i write PvE it's related to it, isn't it?
    *starts to call captain obvious* b:beg

    Teamwork isn't that hard anyways, or seen some squishie running to the boss and hitting him as hard as he can before the tank does? Or Clerics healing themselves only cuz a boss may AoE? Or, or, or, or....
    Just read the forums if u are a newb and u won't have a problem with PvE anymore. At least that's what I did when I first started to play a MMORPG and i can't understand those who say "It's sooo hard", except ppl who aren't able to read.

    Alright captain obvious i agree, i give up you were right. b:bye
    It just a child play, pretty obvious obvious b:laugh
    But what makes it hard is because we team up with real people, everything can messed up if the squad don't have team work.
    What i want to say is . . . people that like pve is exist and they don't think it as child play. b:angry

    Btw i am not a newbie

    Forget what i post, let the thread flow again . . .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    psys are a high DPS DD pre lvl 80 and still quite good after

    can empower vigor tank

    and make a decent maq tank themselves + the aoe heal isnt that bad

    at the end of the day your just another DD but like bm's and venos you do have squad support skills

    basicly yes the game can be played without your class or any DD really but tt runs would be 8 hour affairs

    at least you have more versitile squad skills than sins and archers?
    (<3 STA and bloodpaint thoughb:surrender)

    @ FapFapFap: childs play is the best kind man...dude you got naps and could be amused endlessly by a few cardboard boxes and wooden blocks...when the hell did this become a bad thing?
    Gifs are hard to make work here