Archers Fail Endgame?

24

Comments

  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lol.. looks like everyone just wants to QQ about how bad they are so they have an excuse when they lose.

    Sorry to break it to you, but if you are fail archer its your fault. So do something about it or reroll some class that takes less skill and gear.

    Or better yet come to DW go white named in OT and prove me wroung.

    Btw-- the damage i stated earler is crt.. but its not hard to crt that if you have over 50%crt.

    400 dex/20= 20% natural crit+1% from mastery and about 10% on average off skills

    thats 31% crit

    cash....shopb:chuckle
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    400 dex/20= 20% natural crit+1% from mastery and about 10% on average off skills

    thats 31% crit

    cash....shopb:chuckle

    lol QQ cause your poor. go play a non cash game if you can't handle it.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    well your not an archer...your a cashshopasaurus...thats a totaly diferent classb:surrender

    so you agree that archers need to "invest" a ton in their toon

    why are you arguing otherwise?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    400 dex/20= 20% natural crit+1% from mastery and about 10% on average off skills

    thats 31% crit

    cash....shopb:chuckle
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=fea75544d33758d8

    add demon sta, 50% crit. i still want pics though
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    End game all classes need to invest in their toon. No **** armor **** bow is going to kill some one that invested, so you either do the same or lose. That has nothing to do with the class. And this discussion is about the archer class.

    All I am saying is for similar gear investment archer should be able to come out on top.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    End game all classes need to invest in their toon. No **** armor **** bow is going to kill some one that invested, so you either do the same or lose. That has nothing to do with the class. And this discussion is about the archer class.

    All I am saying is for similar gear investment archer should be able to come out on top.

    endgame gear is just that so it IS worth investing in but no archers do not get the most bang for their buck

    i've been hit harder by a lvl 80 LA wizzie with a +5 wheel of life than an archer with a +12 jun8

    and LA is still squishy as hell without class specific buffs (fox form, stone barrier)
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    endgame gear is just that so it IS worth investing in but no archers do not get the most bang for their buck


    i've been hit harder by a lvl 80 LA wizzie with a +5 wheel of life than an archer with a +12 jun8call it by its pwi name

    and LA is still squishy as hell without class specific buffs (fox form, stone barrier)


    BS, theres no +12 rank 8 gear on sanctuary. theres only 2 known +12 gears at that, wizzeled and skylead (yay max credit card charges!)

    dont make things up :|
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    BS, theres no +12 rank 8 gear on sanctuary. theres only 2 known +12 gears at that, wizzeled and skylead (yay max credit card charges!)

    dont make things up :|

    and then wizzeled got bored and sold his account for 6 grand apparently b:shocked
  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    endgame gear is just that so it IS worth investing in but no archers do not get the most bang for their buck

    i've been hit harder by a lvl 80 LA wizzie with a +5 wheel of life than an archer with a +12 jun8

    and LA is still squishy as hell without class specific buffs (fox form, stone barrier)

    Lol.. at 76.. anything will hit you hard. My genie can one shot you.

    Not to mention your a BM on an archer forum.. go talk on your forum about a class you actually may know something about.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lol.. at 76.. anything will hit you hard. My genie can one shot you.

    Not to mention your a BM on an archer forum.. go talk on your forum about a class you actually may know something about.

    74...mabey your inability to read numbers is why you think you hit so high?

    and sky's got a +12 now?b:shocked

    *runs like hell*
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lol.. at 76.. anything will hit you hard. My genie can one shot you.

    Not to mention your a BM on an archer forum.. go talk on your forum about a class you actually may know something about.
    i dont think you know much about your class as well, sound like a cash shop baby giving bad, unrealistic advice :D.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i dont think you know much about your class as well, sound like a cash shop baby giving bad, unrealistic advice :D.

    Then please by all means... continue on with the QQ about archers so everyone can feel better about dieing.

    To bad your not on DW I would love to give everyone more to cry about.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    if you didnt read my earlier posts, i stated i dont believe we're as gimped as everyone claims, and those on pvp/the noob cash shop splurging servers dont have realistic opinions of real pvp because of the insane lengths yall goto to pay to win.

    (this would be DW, HL, LC)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if you didnt read my earlier posts, i stated i dont believe we're as gimped as everyone claims, and those on pvp/the noob cash shop splurging servers dont have realistic opinions of real pvp because of the insane lengths yall goto to pay to win.

    (this would be DW, HL, LC)

    def is gimped like crazy but if an archer is good at kiting its a pain for ANY OTHER CLASS to hit you

    you have to kite everyone...you CAN kite other ranged classes

    your 30 meter range is your def the reason people start Q.Qing at endgame about wizzies is now wizzie has = range

    so learn to play right or ya people 10 lvls lower or more will kill you
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • E/nY - Sanctuary
    E/nY - Sanctuary Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if you didnt read my earlier posts, i stated i dont believe we're as gimped as everyone claims, and those on pvp/the noob cash shop splurging servers dont have realistic opinions of real pvp because of the insane lengths yall goto to pay to win.

    (this would be DW, HL, LC)

    Nuuu waffles is gonna catch up to Lu$t >.< Gratz on 83 crack lvler xD b:victory
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    i'm an idiot. instead of investing in stocks and investing in my education i should have invested in pixel armor for my archer. it all makes sense now.
  • E/nY - Sanctuary
    E/nY - Sanctuary Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    ^ LOL! some people just like instant gratification? and worry bout bills after the lights go out? lol
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    My statements were both for TW and 1v1 PK. Im not here to tell you how to play an archer, but please stop with this we are no good end game ****. I did not say we live 5 sec.. I said if you die in 5 you better kill in 4.

    The whole 15k unbuffed barb thing.. that should be 2 or 1 shot. either 15k + crt or 1 normal hit for like 5k then 11k crt.

    For me personally it usually is a 7500 hit with Thunder, then 9-11k with Lighting.

    And lol at the TW thing.. if you BOA on lets say a CATA you will rake in the kills, most clerics and support will die in 1 shot crts to the Boa and all will be dead for sure by wave 3.

    Needless to say.. if you dont feel you are one of the best pk classes, either spend time and gear up better. Or find a game your better at.

    Usually 7.5k thunder and 9-11k lighting? i am going to assume usually means average.

    most barbs have like what... 25-30% magic reduction. and your 7.5k cirt - 3.25k non crit dmg. to do 3.25k with 30% reduction, you'll need to do 4.6k raw pvp lighting dmg. and in order to do that... you'll need 18.5k non pvp damage. a level 11 thunder gives like what... base + 4k?. so your average base dmg would need to be 14.5k. 14.5k base is what the best archers has as their upper limit... not average.
    with that being said... there is pretty much no way for you to "usually" do 7.5k on a barb. although its possible with dragon or amp... but those are ideal condictions... not your run of the mill condictions.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    The whole 15k unbuffed barb thing.. that should be 2 or 1 shot. either 15k + crt or 1 normal hit for like 5k then 11k crt.

    15k+!!!
    are you sure you didn't crit on a BM who popped the wrong marrow? or maybe a veno rainbowed that barb for ya b:chuckle

    post gear nao Quizenbort! i want to know what sort of mad equipment lets you 15k crit barbs

    me thinks this guy is a wiz who forgot which avatar he was on
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Mcflugal - Lost City
    Mcflugal - Lost City Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    transcend - Lost City wrote: »
    we Are Incredibly Useless End-game, Quit Now.

    Then Why Are You A Level 100 Archer
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    Call 'em "Sins"..."****" just sounds wrong.
    "Hey mom just 5 more minutes im playing with my ****"
  • CornHilario - Heavens Tear
    CornHilario - Heavens Tear Posts: 647 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Mcflugal - Lost City wrote: »
    Then Why Are You A Level 100 Archer

    Why Do People Talk With The First Letter Of Each Word In Capitals
    One corn to rule them all and in the darkness cream them

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  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Usually 7.5k thunder and 9-11k lighting? i am going to assume usually means average.

    most barbs have like what... 25-30% magic reduction. and your 7.5k cirt - 3.25k non crit dmg. to do 3.25k with 30% reduction, you'll need to do 4.6k raw pvp lighting dmg. and in order to do that... you'll need 18.5k non pvp damage. a level 11 thunder gives like what... base + 4k?. so your average base dmg would need to be 14.5k. 14.5k base is what the best archers has as their upper limit... not average.
    with that being said... there is pretty much no way for you to "usually" do 7.5k on a barb. although its possible with dragon or amp... but those are ideal condictions... not your run of the mill condictions.


    Most lvl 100 barbs with some what close to endgame gear have 50-60%+ magic reduction...not 20-30% b:shutup.

    I have about 15.5k max dmg with +10 bow and even with triple spark + metal debuff + extreme poison + crit i don't come close to a 9-11k lighting on barbs my lvl b/c they have so much damn defenses.

    Even the few rank 8 archers on server don't do average crits for 7.5k and 9-11k on lvl 100+ barbs.

    I do believe Dreamweaver don't have any rank8 archers anyway ...

    So my conclusion is barbs on Dreamweaver must be fking terrible. Or the poster is not killing people on same lvl as himself.

    I would like to see SS of Quizenbort 2 shooting a lvl 100 barb before i believe this crazyness b:chuckle.
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    Most lvl 100 barbs with some what close to endgame gear have 50-60%+ magic reduction...not 20-30% b:shutup.

    I have about 15.5k max dmg with +10 bow and even with triple spark + metal debuff + extreme poison + crit i don't come close to a 9-11k lighting on barbs my lvl b/c they have so much damn defenses.

    Even the few rank 8 archers on server don't do average crits for 7.5k and 9-11k on lvl 100+ barbs.

    I do believe Dreamweaver don't have any rank8 archers anyway ...

    So my conclusion is barbs on Dreamweaver must be fking terrible. Or the poster is not killing people on same lvl as himself.

    I would like to see SS of Quizenbort 2 shooting a lvl 100 barb before i believe this crazyness b:chuckle.

    there is no way a barb would have 50-60% mag res unbuffed. the heavy 99 gold has like 100-200 less mag res per piece then light 90 green. and light 90 green only gives like 45-50% mag res unbuffed. and when i did the calculation i was using what i assume was a 9x barb's mag res.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Kasumi - Dreamweaver
    Kasumi - Dreamweaver Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    I do believe Dreamweaver don't have any rank8 archers anyway ...

    We have 3 rank 8 archers and a rank 8 wizard. sometimes I think they belong on a pvp server. can't do much on a pve server with such awesome gear besides tw. b:shutup
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    ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    there is no way a barb would have 50-60% mag res unbuffed. the heavy 99 gold has like 100-200 less mag res per piece then light 90 green. and light 90 green only gives like 45-50% mag res unbuffed. and when i did the calculation i was using what i assume was a 9x barb's mag res.

    did you add in a set of high grade high refined magic defence ornaments?

    or lunar rings?

    or the maq defence bounus from vit?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • steelmyth
    steelmyth Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Back on topic, no, archers do not fail endgame. At real endgame, with +12 rank8 and +10 equipment, archers have:

    --3rd best physical survivability, after barbarians (huge hp pool) and BMs (sutra), mainly because of our evasion. Some may think evasion is **** and it doesnt work but in fact when you have 5k evasion people with 3k to 5k accuracy will miss you 20% of the time. Its not much, but combined with 70% phys damage reduction (due to physical ornaments and rings) unbuffed it makes a difference.

    --Worst magical survivability. No argument here.

    --Best damage amongst all classes. Yes, better DPS than mages, even better than mages on sutra. The problem is we do physical damage, and everyone endgame has ridiculous physical defense, but not magic defense. Besides, mages can one-shot people, whilst archers cant. Still we are best damage dealers in pve, and excellent tanks.

    --Archers are not a chi dependent class, in fact, the only chi skills you will use in pvp will be winged shell (against magic attacks) and wings of grace, and maybe aim low against runners. Hell spark is useful too, but everyone will run when you use it, so dont bother...


    So, endgame we can kill pretty much any class 1v1 (maybe not barbs), and we can be killed by wizzies, bms, venos and other archers.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    steelmyth wrote: »
    Back on topic, no, archers do not fail endgame. At real endgame, with +12 rank8 and +10 equipment, archers have:

    --3rd best physical survivability, after barbarians (huge hp pool) and BMs (sutra), mainly because of our evasion. Some may think evasion is **** and it doesnt work but in fact when you have 5k evasion people with 3k to 5k accuracy will miss you 20% of the time. Its not much, but combined with 70% phys damage reduction (due to physical ornaments and rings) unbuffed it makes a difference.

    --Worst magical survivability. No argument here.

    --Best damage amongst all classes. Yes, better DPS than mages, even better than mages on sutra. The problem is we do physical damage, and everyone endgame has ridiculous physical defense, but not magic defense. Besides, mages can one-shot people, whilst archers cant. Still we are best damage dealers in pve, and excellent tanks.

    --Archers are not a chi dependent class, in fact, the only chi skills you will use in pvp will be winged shell (against magic attacks) and wings of grace, and maybe aim low against runners. Hell spark is useful too, but everyone will run when you use it, so dont bother...


    So, endgame we can kill pretty much any class 1v1 (maybe not barbs), and we can be killed by wizzies, bms, venos and other archers.

    Firstly, evasion doesn't matter against magic classes.

    Secondly, our damage is great over time - its just we dont have spikes. Our damage accumulates over time. In PvP its all about spike damage to break a charm. We rely on criticals to deal spikes and attack rate to deal with the sheer amount of HP.

    Your right about people having oodles of physical defense end-game. Arcanes realize they lack it and proceed to use their buffs and physical ornaments. Heavies have a great supply of it from their armor alone.





    End game (just purely defined by level): We are the worst of the three classes.



    End Game after spending $100-$1000 dollars on your stuff you'll be medeocre.


    End game after spending $1000+ on your stuff, you'll be decent or even good.



    But no matter how much you spend (The archers who spend $10,000+), you're still a one shot to any magic class.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    petition to make stormrage eagleon have a x00% weapon attack addon b:chuckle
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • MR_Hankie - Lost City
    MR_Hankie - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Op oracles, that's all.b:bye
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    Pot_Heads new character^^
  • steelmyth
    steelmyth Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Firstly, evasion doesn't matter against magic classes.

    Secondly, our damage is great over time - its just we dont have spikes. Our damage accumulates over time. In PvP its all about spike damage to break a charm. We rely on criticals to deal spikes and attack rate to deal with the sheer amount of HP.

    Your right about people having oodles of physical defense end-game. Arcanes realize they lack it and proceed to use their buffs and physical ornaments. Heavies have a great supply of it from their armor alone.





    End game (just purely defined by level): We are the worst of the three classes.



    End Game after spending $100-$1000 dollars on your stuff you'll be medeocre.


    End game after spending $1000+ on your stuff, you'll be decent or even good.



    But no matter how much you spend (The archers who spend $10,000+), you're still a one shot to any magic class.

    I spoke about evasion talking about physical survivability, i didnt say anything about evasion working against magic attacks. In fact i agree our magic defense is ****. However with wings of grace activated it turns out to be somewhat decent.


    Second, its not completely true that we do not have damage spikes. In fact, if you have ever met a rank8 archer you will realize archers damage is a huge continuous spike. With quickshot an endgame archer can finish an endgame mage with his hax phys def in 6 seconds including charm. An endgame mage can only finish an endgame archer within 6 seconds if he uses sutra. I think quickshot is more versatile.

    And lastly, what i wanted to point out is that, with the same money invested, an archer is not worse than other classes endgame. I still think they are the best tanks endgame (i said, endgame DOES depend on money invested), quite good in 1v1 pvp and awesome in tw.

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