Drunken_Chu's Fist BM guide

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  • PJ - Dreamweaver
    PJ - Dreamweaver Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    love the guide chu but disagree with the survivability thing. im an axe/fist bm have 6772 hp at lvl 85 with plus 4 tt80 gold set. have successfully tanked a 1-3 easily tank fb70 can solo krimson all without barb buffs. on top of being awesome dps you can be very very hard to kill as a fist bm.
  • Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver
    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Once again I'm talking compared to other melees. you can only do 1 vit per 2 levels whereas another bm can do 2 or 3 per 2 levels if they wished, so with your exact same equipment they would have more survivability than you. Sure it's not a huge difference, and your dps is MUCH higher, but the fact is still there.
  • X_Boot_x - Sanctuary
    X_Boot_x - Sanctuary Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Once again I'm talking compared to other melees. you can only do 1 vit per 2 levels whereas another bm can do 2 or 3 per 2 levels if they wished, so with your exact same equipment they would have more survivability than you. Sure it's not a huge difference, and your dps is MUCH higher, but the fact is still there.

    I'll have to disagree with you as well Chu. I out survive BM's with similar gear and more hp than I. Maybe it's simply skill or evasion actually working on occasion. Dunno.
    I gave up healing for more immediate methods.

    x_Boot_x
    _WillFire_ ( retired )
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    There can be differences in survivability based off of weapon use, but Chu is talking from a bare bones structure that the extra vit can assist in more survivability. This of course matters less the higher the level of the character, but for pre-90 it is accurate since there is a noticeable difference in health. Though that would mostly apply to high damage instances more than anything I'd say.

    One thing that could be affecting the difference could be in number of hits and weapon procs. If using Dark Flashes, or other health gain fists, you end up healing yourself quite often with a high number of attacks. Or ones that proc extra defense. And as they mentioned, evasion could factor in too. That could be the difference that is being noticed. But that would be too in-depth to cover atm, since there is a new expansion coming out that will effect our class and weapon specialty from what's been leaked so far.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    I reccomend a sticky b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ikurei - Dreamweaver
    Ikurei - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    I have a question. Whenever some talks about fist BMs they always say to stack as much -interval as possible (obviously without using gear that's too far below your level) but how much -interval does one need in order to see a noticeable difference?
    Meh, saw a couple other people doing this so...
    "Time to kill a famous thread then." andracil
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  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    cyclone heel starts giving -.05 at lvl 5

    that in of itself is a noticeable change

    once a fister hits -.2 or more its rediculous
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Cyclone gives -.05 from lvl 2 on, but only with no existing -interval. Maxed it will give you -.1 with .65 or .7 interval; otherwise it stays at -.05 until celestial.

    Usually -.15 or -.2 is pretty good off of just gear, especially when you add in demon spark. -.15 becomes 2.5 attack, and -.2 becomes 2.86 attacks per second. This is when you have a noticably large damage output, that allows you to tank bosses without losing aggro the way axe/spear BMs do.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver
    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Actually even a -.1 interval is a noticeable difference, and should be more than enough to hold aggro as long as you have at least 2.5 str per level.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    b:thanks thanks for being open minded and such

    guide is quite usefull plz sticky

    (still wanna see tel's guide though)
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Yeah I'm having fun on an alt BM with the lv60 DQ gauntlets in BH runs. Double spark + Tangling Mire = hi annoyed barb.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Crazy_Panda - Dreamweaver
    Crazy_Panda - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    sticky plx, or ill chew babies heads offb:thanks
  • kamikaze101
    kamikaze101 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Chew babies heads off!!!!!! * goes Panda huntin' >->* b:sin
  • Crazy_Panda - Dreamweaver
    Crazy_Panda - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    kamikaze101 wrote: »
    chew Babies Heads Off!!!!!! * Goes Panda Huntin' >->* B:sin

    stop Stalking Me Or Ill **** On Your Hair
  • kamikaze101
    kamikaze101 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    lol.....forums are very quiet atm D=.....
    <- Ish bored Dx
  • Flexfit - Dreamweaver
    Flexfit - Dreamweaver Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    srry bump so i can find this guide more easily
  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    haven't read all the post but i read the guilde. Very nice b:victory

    Few things u need to change though

    Pros

    - Fastest chi gain in the game : sins chi spam skills are just unfair
    - Second highest crit% in the game : higher then archers so your 3rd
    - Second highest accuracy in the game : I think sins area bout even
    - Second highest evasion in the game : shouldn't be much of a diffrence with arechers

    Cons
    - Lowest survivability of all the melee classes. La sin so <_<
    - Closest range of all classes daggers and fist/claws got same range?

    Sins kinda throw changes most of that.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Nvmd.
    10char
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Vandalarius - Sanctuary
    Vandalarius - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I agree with above posters. Sticky imo. Another very nice guide with useful info for new comers and those looking to branch out further with theirs class. Just wish it could help me with my choice between Gorenox (gold) or Decide
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Vandalarius - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I agree with above posters. Sticky imo. Another very nice guide with useful info for new comers and those looking to branch out further with theirs class. Just wish it could help me with my choice between Gorenox (gold) or Decide

    Gorenox will be more damaging than Deicide until you are 99, or have -.3 interval total gear from tome, wrists, and cape.

    During demon spark, you will end up with the same attack speed whether you have -.2 interval, or -.25 interval (2.86 APS). So outside of obscene refines, the extra str and proc of Gorenox will make it deal more punishment at the same speed as Deicide. It seems to be around a 1 multiple added on, and the healing effect helps as well.

    Outside demon spark, 2 APS for Gorenox and 2.22 for Deicide. Still the damage proc will mean Gorenox beats Deicide, even with less chi gain all in all.

    Once -.3 interval is reached, Deicide (wrong name put here, my bad) takes over since it finally passes the break point, and has 3.33 APS vs. Gorenox's 2.86 APS (demon sparked). From then on, Deicide will be better, except maybe for assassin or archer users who can have either reach 5 APS. And with less strength, the damage multiple proc will likely help them more until high levels of refine are gained. But might as well refine the Gorenox, and recast Deicide without spending orbs on it that get trashed going Nirvana. If planning to solo, non-archers can keep Deicide for the 10% proc and recast a TT99 fist to Nirvana claw instead for Revenge/Adv Revenge.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Ranfa - Dreamweaver
    Ranfa - Dreamweaver Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I have a question...

    I currently only have -0.5 interval (from TT80 gold bracers) but plan on getting the TT90 gold bracers for -1.0 once I hit level 90. Not sure if I'll be getting the Lunar cape or the scroll since they are rather unrealistic for me.

    I'm now split on what fists to use throughout 90. What I have in mind are Gorenox Vanity or Buddha: Peace. I have read this guide and it mentioned Buddha until at least -.15 (guessing not counting the speed increase from Cyclone Heel) and since I'll likely only have -.1 until I somehow get my hands on the cape and the scroll, I'm a bit leaned towards it for the potential damage. I'm just worried about the sac strike occurring too often and Sutra not being able to keep up with it.

    On the other hand, Gorenox gives -.05 and great boost to str which is also nice, as well as the the fact that it has chance to recover HP rather than lose it.

    Which one has more damage potential? And is the 5% hp loss on Buddha worth it?

    I mainly PvE, but like to duel a lot. I've never turned PK mode on but thinking about it.

    And one last thing. I keep seeing 2 piece of TT99 HA's giving -intervals. I've looked up the database but only see the wrists giving -interval. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

    Thanks!
  • Reico_M - Dreamweaver
    Reico_M - Dreamweaver Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Someone sticky this, it's been super handy while making my fist BM.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm now split on what fists to use throughout 90. What I have in mind are Gorenox Vanity or Buddha: Peace. I have read this guide and it mentioned Buddha until at least -.15 (guessing not counting the speed increase from Cyclone Heel) and since I'll likely only have -.1 until I somehow get my hands on the cape and the scroll, I'm a bit leaned towards it for the potential damage. I'm just worried about the sac strike occurring too often and Sutra not being able to keep up with it.

    On the other hand, Gorenox gives -.05 and great boost to str which is also nice, as well as the the fact that it has chance to recover HP rather than lose it.

    Which one has more damage potential? And is the 5% hp loss on Buddha worth it?

    This actually came up when I was talking with a fists BM who was running my Sin through FB59.

    The FC fists are better than the zerk ones imo as PvP goes. Consider the cost for the souls, both cost about the same. The FC ones have actually higher base damage, the +STR makes you hit harder, the effect makes you hit harder still, then there's the -int. FC fists are also a grade higher so get more bonus from refining. Sure, the zerk is nice, but when you consider who you would be hitting with fists during PvP, it's not worth the 5% HP. With not many -int gears, you are most likely going to use the fists on HA only, since at -0.15 int (only -0.1 in the case of using zerk fists), axes are still the better option for fighting squishes, unless they just stand there and let you punch them. (Yes, you can work in stunlock+ Occult Ice but the ones you can kill with -0.1 int are easily killed with zerk axes, if not faster.) When you zerk on HA with fists, you are giving up quite a portion of your HP for not too much more damage. So if you subtract the amount of HP you lost from the extra damage done to what you hit, it's not that big of a bonus. Zerk on axes are different since doubling the damage dealt on axes is much more than that of fists.

    The healing on FC fists is also nice when fighting against HA since Barbs and BM rarely kill you through spike damage in a few hits (except for Bramble) but through constant damage over time, the healing helps you survive longer. If you duel alot, the healing is just outrageous in duel lol. It doesn't proc as much as zerk, but still at a decent rate. That's just my 2 cents.

    As PvE goes, if you are tanking and have a cleric healing you, the zerk won't be much of an issue. But it's hard to say which one would have the better DPS since I'm too lazy to calculate it. b:avoid

    Edit: I was hitting under 300 on a lower 90s Barb in tiger form with my +5 FC fists. So if I had the zerk ones, I'd been giving up more HP than the extra damage I received from zerk.
    Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And one last thing. I keep seeing 2 piece of TT99 HA's giving -intervals. I've looked up the database but only see the wrists giving -interval. Can anyone enlighten me on this?
    Thanks!
    The -int from TT99 are from the set bonuses. When you have 2 pieces of Lionheart (HA) or Ashura (LA), you get the set bonus of -0.05. So if you have 2 pieces of HA and LA, you get the bonus from both and gain -0.1.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Ranfa - Dreamweaver
    Ranfa - Dreamweaver Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    This actually came up when I was talking with a fists BM who was running my Sin through FB59.

    The FC fists are better than the zerk ones imo as PvP goes. Consider the cost for the souls, both cost about the same. The FC ones have actually higher base damage, the +STR makes you hit harder, the effect makes you hit harder still, then there's the -int. FC fists are also a grade higher so get more bonus from refining. Sure, the zerk is nice, but when you consider who you would be hitting with fists during PvP, it's not worth the 5% HP. With not many -int gears, you are most likely going to use the fists on HA only, since at -0.15 int (only -0.1 in the case of using zerk fists), axes are still the better option for fighting squishes, unless they just stand there and let you punch them. (Yes, you can work in stunlock+ Occult Ice but the ones you can kill with -0.1 int are easily killed with zerk axes, if not faster.) When you zerk on HA with fists, you are giving up quite a portion of your HP for not too much more damage. So if you subtract the amount of HP you lost from the extra damage done to what you hit, it's not that big of a bonus. Zerk on axes are different since doubling the damage dealt on axes is much more than that of fists.

    The healing on FC fists is also nice when fighting against HA since Barbs and BM rarely kill you through spike damage in a few hits (except for Bramble) but through constant damage over time, the healing helps you survive longer. If you duel alot, the healing is just outrageous in duel lol. It doesn't proc as much as zerk, but still at a decent rate. That's just my 2 cents.

    As PvE goes, if you are tanking and have a cleric healing you, the zerk won't be much of an issue. But it's hard to say which one would have the better DPS since I'm too lazy to calculate it. b:avoid

    Edit: I was hitting under 300 on a lower 90s Barb in tiger form with my +5 FC fists. So if I had the zerk ones, I'd been giving up more HP than the extra damage I received from zerk.
    Thank you for the input. I'm kind of embarrassed because I had a discussion with another BM in the faction regarding which fists would do better in a duel and I voted for Buddha. The more I thought about it the more I started to ponder about my choice. I also challenged him to a future duel when I get my Buddha fists and he gets GV (which he already did b:sad)...Oh well, will just have to put him down with skills I guess b:sin

    Currently I'm trying to buy a GV but no avail...
    I'm thinking about using GV when I have to tank and Buddha for DD situations. I'll see how well Buddha does...
    The -int from TT99 are from the set bonuses. When you have 2 pieces of Lionheart (HA) or Ashura (LA), you get the set bonus of -0.05. So if you have 2 pieces of HA and LA, you get the bonus from both and gain -0.1.
    Let me see if I understand this correctly.
    If I want the -.1 from armor pieces I need to have 2 HA pieces and 2 LA pieces (assuming which pieces don't matter). So if I have HA chest and Legs, I need LA bracers and LA boots?
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Let me see if I understand this correctly.
    If I want the -.1 from armor pieces I need to have 2 HA pieces and 2 LA pieces (assuming which pieces don't matter). So if I have HA chest and Legs, I need LA bracers and LA boots?

    Yes. That or you can go with full HA and use the Ashura ornaments.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    If you have the tt99 gold wrists, you have -.1 automatic on its own as an add. In addition to that -.1, you are able to try qualifying for two set adds that give an additional -.05 each. You must have 2 TT99 HA or TT99 LA to qualify for that set bonus, and if you have 2 of each you get a total of -.1 from set bonuses. This adds on to the wrist's bonus for a total -interval of -.2 when worn.

    Kind of sounded like they were asking if they needed the two sets to qualify for the -.1 from the wrists, so just thought it best to clarify in case.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver
    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Well I wrote this guide before I even had Buddha Peace lol. Considering how expensive they are, it is NOT worth it. But to answer a few questions here we go. Buddha Peace has a 10% proc, and if 2 BMs are using equal equipment, one using Buddha Peace and another Gorenox Vanity, the Buddha has a higher dps. For PvP it is an AMAZING weapon to use against squishies, as in 5.6k zerk crits with cyclone heel, but against barbs and BMs its flat out suicide.

    My advice is to not get Buddha Peace OR Gorenox Vanity. Just refine TT80 Green Buddha Fists a bit and use them to 95 and use lunar claws.
  • Ranfa - Dreamweaver
    Ranfa - Dreamweaver Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    My advice is to not get Buddha Peace OR Gorenox Vanity. Just refine TT80 Green Buddha Fists a bit and use them to 95 and use lunar claws.

    Too late .__.
    Already running around with Gorenox. b:cry
  • Lucifer - Dreamweaver
    Lucifer - Dreamweaver Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    well it looks really good, its just one thing about these BM guids that puzzles me.... why people say oceans edge is worthless to lvl. its one of the BM's best moves and does GOOD damage even for fist users and slows down player witch can prevent an Archer from kiting in PvP along with Wizards and Clerics...in my opinion oceans edge is one of the best moves a BM has...another thing is i like he builds u set up, i would highly reccomend to anyone NOT to put anything into vit if you are planing on beeing a fist BM 3str and 2dex is the way to go...add citrines in armor and the money problem can be solved if you are a dedicated player and have time to do TT runs and farm TT mats and sell them, so refining + citrines you'll have a decent amount of HP
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Too late .__.
    Already running around with Gorenox. b:cry

    Trust me, I have both Gorenox and a G11 Garnet sharded Deicide at lvl 96. I still use Gorenox over Deicide for the extra damage I get, with the healing just being a nice extra. But when soloing squad mode TT bosses, without a second thought I swap to Gorenox after Deicide proc. The healing gets better and better the higher your APS goes. Only after 3.33 or so will the % increase in damage from Deicide sway me away from Gorenox.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.

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