Drunken_Chu's Fist BM guide

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

First things first, please do not flame me, instead leave constructive criticism that I can use to improve this guide.


Stop reading this guide right now if...

You want vit. At most a fist bm will have 1 vit every 2 levels, if u want vit, roll a barb or don't use fists.



So, why choose a fist bm?

There is one, and only one reason to use fists. 1v1 DPS. An assassin with rank 8 chest, rank 8 daggers, and nirvana pants will out DPS a fist BM, but 99.99% of all PW players will never have this equipment, so a fist bm will still out dps a sin. Also being a heavy armor class, a fist bm can tank if they steal aggro, whereas an Assassin will just die.


So if you're still interested in being a fist bm, keep reading.

Sections:
I. Stats
II. Skills
III. Gear


Section I. Stats
First of all to wear fists your level you will need 1.5 str and 2 dex per level, leaving 1.5 stat points left over. A common mistake is to wear LA and dump everything into dex, DO NOT DO THIS. Here's why-

More str = more dps. It doesn't matter how high your critical% is at when you are doing **** damage. Don't forget that crapX2 is still ****. Now don't take my word for it, go to http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ and play around with the character simulator, you'll see for yourself that more str = more dps.

LA is fail for pvp. You might think that more magic defense will help with casters but they will still hit like a mack truck and you won't have the refining bonus that HA gives to take it. Plus that's why BMs have alter marrow magical. You might think that physical classes will miss a lot and you'd be right. They will miss, a LOT, and you will laugh at them. But eventually they won't miss, and since you will have lower phys defense it will hurt, a LOT, and they will laugh at you. And if that hit happens to crit it's basically GG fail LA bm. Oh yeah and Misty forest rings are INCREDIBLY cheap nowadays, and everyone and their grandma has one, so your evasion counts for a lot less. Once again GG.

Ultimately, if you want to make a dex based LA fist BM, do yourself a favor and roll an Assassin instead.


Now that we've (hopefully) established that a fist bm needs to wear HA that means you will need 2.5 str and 2 dex per level, or 5 str 4 dex 1 left over point every 2 levels. Where you put this last point is really up to you and I will go over all possibilities.

6 str 4 dex
This is the build I recommend for fist bms. It has a higher dps than any other build, and allows you to use all bm weapons at your level. That's all that really needs to be said.

5 str 5 dex
With this build you sacrifice dps and the ability to use axes your level in order to gain more evasion, more accuracy, more crit, and the ability to use really high level bows. In my experience this is a VERY good build before level 90, but after that using calamity axes just doesn't cut it anymore, and you'll find that the lower dps (in pvp) starts to gimp you pretty significantly after 90. Also, the difference between 4 dex and 5 dex every 2 levels is really quite small, so unless you have this really weird subconscious desire to pwn archers, I don't recommend it.

5 str 4 dex 1 vit.
This is the most balanced build and the one MOST people recommend. As I mentioned earlier in pros and cons, fist bms have low survivability, so this build helps out with that. But I personally think 7.5 hp per level is almost worthless and that the extra stat point is better used elsewhere. However if you know for a fact that you won't be able to afford good gear, high refines, and good citrines, then this is probably the build for you. That is until you have TT80 gold or TT90, then you should restat to 3 str 2 dex.

5 str 4 dex 1 mag
no.


Section II. Skills

Tiger Maw - Fists are all about dishing out dps using the speed of their regular attacks, skills just slow you down. So unless you eventually plan to use this skill to chain combos together, leave it level 1 as a prereq.

Draw Blood - In the early levels this DoT skill can be used as an opening attack and significantly increases your dps, but past level 60 it's completely worthless. Level it up as much as you feel like, doesn't matter.

Stream Strike - This skill SUPPOSEDLY holds aggro, but I've never gotten it to work. Plus you will have NO problem holding aggro at later levels b:sin. Finally, the damage given compared to the chi lost makes this skill completely worthless. Level 1 as a prereq and never ever touch it again.

Aeolian Blade - A pretty decent damage skill with a 50% chance to stun at level 10, but as I said about Tiger Maw, skills slow you down. You'll want to max this EVENTUALLY, but it's not a high priority.

Drakes Ray - This will be your one and only ranged skill for a long time, and is VERY useful as a finisher on the mobs that run away when they are almost dead. Max it.

Golden Bell - Your physical defense party buff, it increases your survivability, it rocks, just MAX IT.

Roar of the Pride - This is your aoe stun, and is VERY useful. If you're grinding and take on too many mobs, roar of the pride, run away. If you're fighting someone and they keep kiting like a beotch, roar of the pride, pwn them in the face. MAX IT

Cloud Sprint - Makes you run fast for 15 seconds, helps to close in on casters or make a quick get away, or just travel fast when you don't have a mount or aerogear. Plus level 10 opens up Will of the Bodhisatva, a VERY useful skill. MAX IT

Tiger Leap/Leap Back - Cool little skills that in my opinion are completely unnecessary. Level them when/if you feel like it.

Ocean's Edge - Low damage skill that has a CHANCE to slow people. Stuns are better, leave it level 1 as a prereq.

Fan of Flames/Drake Sweep - aoes. max them.

Alter Marrow Physical - Cut magic defense by X% to increase physical defense by X%. Get this to level 10 eventually but it's not a high priority. It's always useful when you're tanking or aoe grinding and find yourself taking too much phys damage. It's completely useless in PvP however, cuz then your opponent will 1 shot you with Thunderstorm or Bramble Rage. One cool PvP trick though is to use Alter Marrow Physical to raise your physical damage to an epic number, then use the genie skill Balance to absorb magic damage, to make yourself almost invincible for awhile.

Alter Marrow Magic - Cut physical defense by X% to increase magical defense by X%. LEAVE IT AT LEVEL 3! Why? Of course you don't want to level it too high because of plume shot on clerics and blade tempest on wizards, BUT, you can use it on archers too! I use alter marrow magic on archers all the time to cut the lightning damage significantly, and still have enough phys defense to take regular attacks. One of the greatest bm pvp tips of all time imo. If you go demon, you'll eventually want to replace level 3 with demon magic marrow.

Diamond Sutra - Consume 1 spark to heal yourself. MAX IT

Will of the Bodhisatva - Consume 1 spark to increase movement speed by 100% and make yourself immune to slow/freeze/and stun. Get it ASAP, and ALWAYS open with it in pvp.

Now... on to fist skills.

Vacuous Palm - Consume 1 spark to slow your opponent. Worthless skill, level 1 as prereq and NEVER TOUCH IT AGAIN!

Shadowless Kick - This is an amazing skill that cancels casting, and later on you'll want to use it as an opening skill when grinding. However the damage gained from leveling it is worthless so keep it level 1.

Cyclone Heel - The bread and butter of a fist bm. It's an aoe that after casting increases your attack speed by X% for X seconds. You won't notice a difference in attack speed when it's level 1-3, but at level 4+ you will. A common opening combo when grinding is Shadowless kick, Cyclone Heel, and regular attacks 'till dead. MAX IT

Drakes Breath Bash - Very nice spike damage for fists, but there are better uses for 2 sparks. You might think adding fire damage would be good against HAs, but the fire is based on weapon damage NOT base damage, so it's worthless. KEEP IT LEVEL 0.

Fist mastery - Increases fist damage. max it. duh.


So if you noticed, I only said to max 2 skills in the fist tree, Cyclone heel and fist mastery. Eventually, you will have excess spirit, and will be wondering what to do with it all. Make genies? NO. It's time to multiclass. But what to multiclass in? Well the cool thing is you can multiclass with anything you want! BUT, if you want to use swords or polearm you have to go axes FIRST. Here's why - At level 70+ you can do a little thing called Rebirth Gamma, which is a special instance where you can gain LOTS of xp and spirit. However NO ONE will take you unless you have axes. So what you do is RB Gamma until you're 85, and then if you still want to max polearm/sword skills you can dump excess XP into a genie and max all you want. Axes are the best complement to a fist bm anyway with aoes and a 6 second stun, and the ability to HF every 30 seconds makes you a VERY useful party member.


79 Skills
Smack - Ranged skill that seals. No matter how poor you are in coin and spirit, GET THIS SKILL! That seal does WONDERS in pvp, and having an 18m ranged skill is SO sweet to finish off runners. Just be warned that seal on regular mobs makes them run away.

Bolt of Tyreseus - This is a cool aoe with a MASSIVE range, and does decent damage too. It also freezes everyone, including yourself, and then slows run speed/slows channeling/slows attack speed on everyone who gets hit by it for a few seconds. GREAT for TWs, but otherwise.. meh.

Dragon Bane - Increase crit rate by 25% and decrease damage by 50% for 30 seconds. Looks aweful at first, but a cleric/purify pot/demon or sage spark will purify the half damage part. Since fists build chi so fast you can use this skill often so it's pretty cool, but not necessary.

100 skills
b:avoid

Finally you'll be wondering, Demon or Sage? Before you ever make a decision go on ecatomb.net and look at the skills for yourself, I personally think both could be good in the right hands. However 99% of fist BMs go demon because demon spark gives you a 25% increase to attack speed, which is needless to say, epic.

Section III. Gear

There is one stat that a fist bm must ALWAYS be aiming for. That stat is minus interval between hits. The more equipment you have with this stat the faster you attack, and faster attack means higher DPS, which is the one and only purpose of a fist bm. Here's how it works. You take your attack speed, 1.43, and divide that from 1. So 1/1.43 = .7 Say you have one peice of equipment with - .1 interval between hits (IBH from now on) then that's .7 - .1 = .6 Then you just multiply by 1.43 and divide THAT number from 1.43 So .6 X 1.43 = .858 1.43/.858 = 1.67 attacks per second. I know that's probably confusing as hell but hopefully you'll get the hang of it.

To make it easier on you here's a quick reference table
IBH = APS (Attacks Per Second)
-.05 = 1.54
-.10 = 1.67
-.15 = 1.82
-.20 = 2.00
-.25 = 2.22
-.30 = 2.50
-.35 = 2.86
-.40 = 3.33
-.45 = 4.00


The most IBH you can get in the game is -.45 here's how:

Frostcover gold Gorenox Vanity -.05

Lunar glade claws Deicide or TT100 -.1 (or G13 nirvana claws)

Love, up and down tome -.05 (as far as I know impossible to get without anniversary packs b:angry)

Lunar Glade cape -.05 (also impossible without anniverary packs, I think)

TT99 gold HA/LA OR TT90 gold HA/LA OR DQ60 Bracers -.1

2 peices of TT99 gold HA -.05

2 peices of TT99 gold LA -.05

Nirvana Pants -.05




Secondly, a fist bm should always be on the lookout for +hp +vit (think of vit as +15 hp) and + mag resist items to boost survivability. And thirdly, + crit% items.

I'm won't go into too much detail because I'm getting tired but the kind of (realistic) stuff you should be aiming for is

Vit tome/christmas tome
Cape of tauren chieftan
TT90 gold magic amulet/sky demons pearl
TT90 gold magic belt/demon slaughter belt
TT90 rings/Misty Forest Rings/crit rings
TT90 green/TT80 gold/high level mold armor
FC fists or lunar claws

A few things to keep in mind at lower levels is that at level 60 you can get the -.1 IBH bracers of blood moon, for only 25 silver and 25 copper dragon orders. Get them ASAP. Before level 60 you can sometimes find -.05 IBH LA bracers in the auction house. GET THEM

Physical defense ornaments get better hp bonuses than magic ones, I would look for those at the auction house until you can get the higher level molds such as sky demons pearl and demon slaughter belt.

If you're multiclassing with axes you might be better off using supply stash axes before level 60. TT60 & TT70 fists have a higher dps, AoS and DarkFlash have higher survivability. TT80 has a 10% chance to increase your phys defense and your phys attack by 20% for 10 seconds. This is better DPS imo than TT80 gold which only increases crit by 2%.



Finally for those thinking about endgame equipment I would go with -
Lunar glade Deicide or TT100, whichever you can afford
Love, up and down tome
-.05 IBH Lunar cape
lunar rings
cube necklace
TT99 gold HA Lionheart belt (combine this with TT99 gold HA boots for -.05 IBH)
TT99 gold HA boots
TT99 gold HA leggings (make these into nirvana leggings eventually)
TT99 gold LA chest (combine with TT99 gold LA bracers for -.05 IBH)
TT99 gold LA bracers (see above)
Nirvana helmet (gives a bonus when combined with nirvana pants)

I go this route because once you have nirvana pants you no longer get a lionheart set bonus from them. HA boots give REALLY nice bonuses to stats so they are a must. Also using the HA belt for the p. def refining bonus is more beneficial than using an LA belt. You do lose out on some refining hp from armor, but at absolute endgame this amount is neglible. However, don't take my word for it, play around on the pw calculator and find what setup works best for you.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

removed wall of flame most of the issues i had where fixed lol

still wanna see tel's guide but this one is evolving nicely...keep it upb:thanks

dieoh

Well im glad people are taking the time to give some information to others, spcially on a path like fists.

Im no rxpert but id like to point out a few things, Maybe i missed it but a section covering genie skills would be nice, theres some skills like relentless courage or windshield that can increase the DPS.

You didnt metion Will of the B.(lol i forgot hw to spell it) that skills is great agaisnt fellow BMs, and anythign that wants to stun you.

Idk if its me but since im an axe/fist user, for arcane clerics and wizzies, i find axes(zerk even better) more reliable becuse of the spike dmg, Drakes bash / highland cleeave take away huge chunks of HP, but thats just my opinion.

And as for barbs and bms being the hardest to pk/duel/1vs1 I find quite the oposite, specially if they are spear/axe. using WOTB as ur starting skill is great, to avoid stun lock. The ones that give me more trouble are other fist users, goodd geared wizzies and venos with nix ^^

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Nice guide b:victory. Approved by the "epic blademaster" b:cute.

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

edits:
1. and if yu dont want to get flamed take the dam flames out of this guide ....hipacritical bull**** b:angry


2. 2 of those 3 builds 5:5 and 5:4:1 dont allow axes to be used but spears are quite nice...farstrike is an excelent skill also spears will alow aoe grinding even if it is only with line skills


3. and fists are quite excelent for pk when complemented with axes/poles for range and stunlock on them running squishies


4. add in will of bolshi as a GET skill


5. ill just wait for telariths guide thanksb:cute

1.You're right this is highly opinionated, but I was mainly just trying to add in humor.

2. True, you have to use axes below your level but that's no big deal. I've been using Calamity axes since 82.

3. I already mentioned that

4. That too is already mentioned.

5. I had no idea Telarith is writing a guide, if they write a decent one I will gladly take this down.



@dieoh Sorry I should probably clarify, barbs/bms are CAKE in duels, but it's a whole different story in pk. I did touch on genie skills slightly, I might go back later and go more in depth.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

nvm lulz. lalalal 10 char.

Arkright - Dreamweaver

You could have collaberated with the other big fist bms and made your guide a conglomeration of opinions instead of one. That's just my opinion Chu, please don't take it the wrong way. More opinions = less bias.

By the way, Striking Dragon, the TT100 fists, have a base attack speed of 1.67 and -.1 int.

dieoh

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@dieoh Sorry I should probably clarify, barbs/bms are CAKE in duels, but it's a whole different story in pk. I did touch on genie skills slightly, I might go back later and go more in depth.

Didnt see the genie part.
And altough duels and pk are quite different, and mainly for me the whole charm deal, I stll feel that non-fist BMs are still not that much of a threat.
I always use the same stategy, only difference is that i do try to have spark pots with me all the time ^^.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

sry if i was a little.... well ya irked

i really would like to see a full length guide for each weapon path and a full set of hybrid guides but if and when these are made i would like to see them made by lvl 9x+ bm's who have run each weapon from level 1 (unrealisticly high expectation i know but hey if your going ta do it do it right folks just get together talk make niceb:chuckle)

DO NOT PUT PERSONAL OPINIONS IN GUIDES

if your gonna be funny or state personal preferances do it in a footnote or a 2nd post right below the first. personal opinions detract from the objectivity and can bias the readers (fist axe debate...that stickied guide up top ya bad things happen when people opinionate their guides)

in short sry fo tha flamin but i stand by me guns on what me saidb:bye

Mythsoul - Heavens Tear

add colour, very nice and detailed guide

Esque - Lost City

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

However if u still want to roll a LA fist bm STFU and do it, then come back when you're 70+ and epic fail and continue reading.

First off note that I'm a level 87 unexperienced bm on a PvE server, so take everything I say here with a grain of salt.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool


that is all.

Filet - Heavens Tear

Esque - Lost City wrote: »

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool


that is all.

loooooooooooooooool good job taking quotes out of context.

A suggestion for the guide, leave alter marrow magical at lvl 3 until 89, and then if demon use demon aura+demon alter marrow magical for high resists both phys and mag

Joshcja - Sanctuary

and if your dumb like me and maxed your marrows before you read any guids go demon lol

X_Boot_x - Sanctuary

-.1 int = 1.67 attacks per second (APS)
-.2 int = 2 APS
-.3 int = 2.5 APS
-.4 int = 3.33 APS

Add in lvl 10 Cyclone Heel +15% = 3.89 APS

Cyclone does not add too Demon Spark as far as I know. Cyclone actually slows you down while in Red Bubble ( +20% )

Add in +25% for Demon Spark = 4.16 APS

For those of you keeping track...Cyclone lvl 10 with -.1 int gives you a shade under 2 APS

Beatrixxx - Lost City

good guide

as for the people askin for genie and shardin info

ive g8 hp shardet my gear... cause i believe that is the most usefull for a fistie

genie: some ppl like thunderstorm(for mag dmg against ha like bms ha venos and barbs) but i prefer bramble rage cause it has basically the same dmg but unlike thunderstorm this one have full damage at 25 meter range(thunderstorm sais 3x dmg to close opponents but bramble is the same at range) and bramble has a HUUGE aoe 25 meter radius aoe is good for pvp and pve (if ur getting ganked or pull too many mobs heavens flame + bramble = carnage)

of cource id recomend 2 genies one with tree, holy path and extreme poison for pve and instances and a pvp genie with dex vit build for primarily bramble and i have additionally wind shield(increased eva and atk spd for 8 seconds) and absolute domain(makes close allies and urself immune to damage for a few seconds(can save ur **** in many pvp and pve situations)

but genies are very different from person to person what some ppl love other ppl might never use

Arron - Dreamweaver

nice guide bro

Just a few genie things i've worked out for ya... (based on pure str genie)

1) Second Wind is better than ToP if ur reflexes suck. if maxed with str pure genie, itll heal over half ur HP with ur 5str/dex build. But ToP is good if you can predict your death, otherwise go for SW

2) Pure Str genie kicks **** with Relentless COurage haha. i own with it in TT

Hope it helped

Arron - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

edits:

take out the opinionated comments and personal preferances expect this to be burried

ill just wait for telariths guide thanksb:cute

(hurry up get 99 tel i want a non fail fist guid)

Opinionated: look, it a guide, not a booklet on how to play PWI.

non fail fist guide: Go make your own and come back yea?

Telarith - Sanctuary

X_Boot_x - Sanctuary wrote: »

-.1 int = 1.67 attacks per second (APS)
-.2 int = 2 APS
-.3 int = 2.5 APS
-.4 int = 3.33 APS

Add in lvl 10 Cyclone Heel +15% = 3.89 APS

Cyclone does not add too Demon Spark as far as I know. Cyclone actually slows you down while in Red Bubble ( +20% )

Add in +25% for Demon Spark = 4.16 APS

For those of you keeping track...Cyclone lvl 10 with -.1 int gives you a shade under 2 APS

Speed buffs work differently, and end up better. Take your interval, multiply it by the % speed buff, and subtract that from your current interval. So it actually boosts more the higher you are.

For skills, there is really only 2 to direct a second glance at for anyone reading for fisters:

1) Tyrseus. As Joshcja mentioned, it is the highest possible spike damage we can do in one hit, since it not only has an adjusted weapon damage % add-on (260% will keep fists very close to sword's myriad when refines are counted in), but it also does 260% of your base physical damage. This base is after all adjustments made to it: barb damage buff, weapon proc buffs, spark buffs (all of which stack for damage increase), berserk, etc. It can truly be made potent, and for only the cost of 1 spark to use. More to make ridiculously powered, but still.

2) Drake's Breath Bash. Don't look at it from the increase listed on the skill: think of it in terms of how fists are best and compare that against the other 59s. Off the bat, it's pretty much a solo'er skill. Doesn't help the party as other skills can, but with -interval giving say 3.33 attacks per second, you are getting (3.33 * 80% * 15 secs=) 3996% of your weapon damage added as fire damage, 6,743% when demonized. If using poison powders, could be worthwhile to start with a Glacial spike and other defense debuff stacks. Heaven's would be nice, but only lasts 6 secs until lvl 99.

So when you look at over-all effect, it isn't quite so bad on its own. Whether it can work in PvP, not sure of yet. Most likely the slight damage increase and speed of the attack itself won't freak people into running as much as flashier, more well-known skills would. PvE would still be better off using demon spark most likely, few situations where it would be beat. Suppose sage fisters could make good use of it, however.

Just a second glance at a neglected 59 skill for anyone interested in giving it a try. Definitely wouldn't sacrifice more needed skills to level that one up, however.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Arron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Opinionated: look, it a guide, not a booklet on how to play PWI.

non fail fist guide: Go make your own and come back yea?

Main Entry: 1guide
Pronunciation: \ˈgīd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gide, guide, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan guida, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English wītan to look after, witan to know more at wit
Date: 14th century
1 a : one that leads or directs another's way b : a person who exhibits and explains points of interest c : something that provides a person with guiding information d : signpost 1 e : a person who directs another's conduct or course of life

yes i expect guides to give full skill info step by step tactics buid into gear stages and such

mabey expecting people to do things right is to much to ask?

my main complaint is that this guide is highly opinionated and incomplete decent info but realy... do it right

and reason i have not tryed to make guide is im lvl 71 i have yet to actually use the endgame gears pk or even pve in a 9x enviorment and i personaly suck at passive voice writing lol so to avoid hipocracy i stay away from guide makin

RezzErection - Harshlands

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

and if your dumb like me and maxed your marrows before you read any guids go demon lol

wooopsb:sweat

Mythsoul - Heavens Tear

If you plan on heavy PvP or even PvE, if you get the genie skill "balance" it would be a good idea to get your marrows to level 10.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Mythsoul - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you plan on heavy PvP or even PvE, if you get the genie skill "balance" it would be a good idea to get your marrows to level 10.

Or just phy marrow. Phy marrow + Balance= 105 dmg with sage sparked BIDS.

Arron - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Main Entry: 1guide
Pronunciation: \ˈgīd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gide, guide, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan guida, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English wītan to look after, witan to know more at wit
Date: 14th century
1 a : one that leads or directs another's way b : a person who exhibits and explains points of interest c : something that provides a person with guiding information d : signpost 1 e : a person who directs another's conduct or course of life

yes i expect guides to give full skill info step by step tactics buid into gear stages and such

mabey expecting people to do things right is to much to ask?

my main complaint is that this guide is highly opinionated and incomplete decent info but realy... do it right

and reason i have not tryed to make guide is im lvl 71 i have yet to actually use the endgame gears pk or even pve in a 9x enviorment and i personaly suck at passive voice writing lol so to avoid hipocracy i stay away from guide makin

Seems like a troll... If this is closed Chu, i feel sorry for ya.

and Joshcja, not all guide have to be step by step to be successful. all it has to do is give the heads up and tips, not teach you how to walk.

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

Thanks for the responses everyone keep them coming b:victory

I have to work all weekend but I'm adding a genie section and revamping the pvp section monday night or tuesday morning. Sorry for all the opinions, but if it makes you feel any better they are not all mine. Much of what I say here is from reading other threads on the BM forums and from observing and talking with other BMs ingame. Also, should I change evasion to highest in the pros/cons section? I actually don't know how we compare to archers.


@ Telarith and Joshcja please talk about Bolt of Tyreseus when you actually reach level 79 and have it. I know it LOOKS amazing, but it's actually VERY dissapointing. I only do about 1k more damage with BoT than I do with Cyclone heel. I'm hoping the damage will be better once I hit 90, I'll let you know.

Beatrixxx - Lost City

am i qualified to talk about bolt?

the primary function for bolt isnt the damage its aoe statuses that comes with it... in tw and rebirth ints invaluable... allso in a pinch its good for takin people kiting u casu most ppl will kite a bit and turn back to atk u and again the statuses help.... just allways remember that its not a stun they can still atk u but of cource a lot slower

Joshcja - Sanctuary

sadly all my bot experiance comes from others

but tel claims to be 9x atm (dun know why she's using a level 77 avatar)

evade is slightly less than = with archers on the 2 dex per lvl builds

lol sry for the flames earlier but i do stand by what was said

if you want to put in personal stuff please move it to an endnote or a "my experiances section"

and remove the inflamitory remarks twards others builds those are a flame magnet for people like me

Telarith - Sanctuary

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Telarith and Joshcja please talk about Bolt of Tyreseus when you actually reach level 79 and have it. I know it LOOKS amazing, but it's actually VERY dissapointing. I only do about 1k more damage with BoT than I do with Cyclone heel. I'm hoping the damage will be better once I hit 90, I'll let you know.

What I posted about Tyrseus, is only what I know from actually testing it. My avatar has been stuck at lvl 77 for quite a while, no idea why and I made a post about it a while back wondering about trying to fix it. Also posted a pic of a screenie I took when I was lvl 85, and since I'm currently demon BM, pretty sure I'm higher than lvl 77.

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

As for my avatar, for some reason it decided it didn't want to grow up. Almost leveled out of Gamma though, been lazy leveling.



Picture of my character, character sheet, and 7 current weapons for swapping.

Did a write up on a test I did with Tyrseus, listing damages, that showed it counted phys attack boosts in the calculation for Tyrseus damage calculations. So 260% of a demon spark would be 1300% just off of that alone, which is a lot more than 1k. It has the ability to end up a very powerful spike, just depends on if people bother trying.

EDIT: Found the post I made detailing damage of tyrseus with spark and without, so here it is:

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Still think I'll wait on someone to actually have the lunar fists to find out what their true effect is. If you took double damage under berserk status, they usually just state that. Since it just mentions increased damage, it sounds more 15%-60% range.

As for Cube mixed with Buddha: Peace, the only way I planned on using the two was to work up for a large damage spike making use of Tyrseus' high % boost compared to other skills. Even Myriad pales in comparison to how powerful Tyrseus can strike for.

Now not sure if there is an actual difference in wording between base physical attack and base physical damage, but if there isn't then base phys attack is not based on damage multiplier. I tested out using the exact same fists for each part; I did normal attacks, sparked attacks, normal Tyrseus, sparked Tyrseus.

Normal attack on the horsies was averaged pretty close at 2.2K dmg a hit. Sparked hits were around 4.1K dmg a hit. So not quite double, and added 1.9K dmg.

Now Tyrseus normal dealt 5.5K damage, not a high refinement on my new weapon. However, sparked dealt roughly 10K damage each time. Now if spark was counted seperate, it should only be 7.5K damage. As such, spark boost's effect on your character screen is counted as part of the base physical damage to reach that higher number; again, almost double the damage.

Regardless, I plan on getting Buddha: Peace and Cube for the Tyrseus spike for the sake of obscenity. Most likely won't refine them too high for a while, as my Gorenox will be my main grinding fists. Deicide may be faster, but doesn't heal me as I go. Until I get in the -.35 interval range anyways, at which the higher attack rate will likely save me more damage than Gorenox will heal.

wnight

"insanely high DPS (damage per second)" --- No , since : a. you get only 1 extra attack which still must successefully land in 4-5 attacks in comparison to Sword user b.your damage is 1/2 of Sword user with almost same attack speed(Fist:1.43 Vs Sword:1.11 but x2 damage!!!)

"Lowest survivability of all the melee classes"-- No , Use HA and still you can use fists.

"A few things to keep in mind at lower levels is that at level 60 you can get the -.1 IBH bracers of blood moon, for only 25 silver and 25 copper dragon orders. Get them ASAP. Before level 60 you can sometimes find -.05 IBH LA bracers in the auction house. GET THEM"---Good Luck on getting those at 60ies by using Dragon Order means trust me you'll need it b:laugh

P.S i enjoy using fist at Boss fights since interrupt sometimes is life/death matter.

Sunspot - Lost City

Using both is just a waste of coin and spirit.

That is dead wrong imo. Unless you wanna go all out pure dex never ever should you limit yourself to only one wpn. Using multiple wpns makes you more versatile, able to adjust to all kinds of situations be it PVE or PvP.

Telarith - Sanctuary

"insanely high DPS (damage per second)" --- No , since : a. you get only 1 extra attack which still must successefully land in 4-5 attacks in comparison to Sword user b.your damage is 1/2 of Sword user with almost same attack speed(Fist:1.43 Vs Sword:1.11 but x2 damage!!!)

---No, similar grade swords do not have that great a boost in damage over fists. 720 vs 528 average damage between a set of grade 12 fists and grade 12 blade. Fists also refine at roughly 72% the rate of swords as well, meaning over-all fists will equal out to around 70-72% of sword's damage.

However, no fist master would have base attack rate. Even just using Cyclone, they boost to 1.67. And while sword can weapon swap back and forth for the same boost, they lose time switching to fist, damage from using a less refined weapon, and lose more time swapping back.

Also, most fisters will have roughly -.2 in mid 90s, -.3 at 99. Can go up to -.4 if they have scroll and cape. Being .2 interval behind fists has a large impact at these higher deductions. While fist with -.3 would have 3.33 before speed buffs, sword would only have 1.67. That is almost half the attack rate, while not dealing double damage. Count the half chi gain rate, and they will be under sparked status much less than fist.

So yes, fists will be higher DPS than swords with -interval factored in. The only time I would consider swords over fists for DPS, would be between 90-94 where I can get a berserk sword for cheap. Other than that though, there isn't a contest; fists are a much better DPS weapon over swords. The only time it wouldn't be, is if someone isn't geared for fists and tries using them. Those silly BMs might be who you're thinking of.

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

Sorry Telarith you are correct. I was doing normal tests and it was only a 1k difference, but I just tried it double sparked and it was a 5k difference. However pvp wise it looks like the damage still isn't that great until you have demon/sage spark.

Wright I meant fist bms have the lowest survivability because they only have access to .5 vit per level, all other BMs can have more if they want. You are right about bracers of blood moon, I didn't get mine until mid 70s, but a cash user could sell gold and buy the orders, if they wanted to, and have them AT level 60.

Sunspot I meant using SWORDS and fists is a waste of coin and spirit, but throughout the rest of the guide I HIGHLY encourage multclassing with axes. I myself am a Fist/Axe/Polearm BM.